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After eleven days in office, Newsweek puts Obama in Vietnam

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MiaCulpa Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 04:22 AM
Original message
After eleven days in office, Newsweek puts Obama in Vietnam
Source: Raw Story - John Byrne

Coming to newsstands Monday: 1965.

That's the year then-President Lyndon Johnson officially expanded America's involvement in Vietnam, expanding the number of US troops from 3,500 in March to 200,000 by December.

Newsweek invites the comparison with a bold cover, titled, "OBAMA'S VIETNAM," going to press less than two weeks after Obama takes office. Johnson, like Obama, inherited a troubled US conflict from his predecessor.

"A wave of reports, official and unofficial, from American and foreign (including Afghan) diplomats and soldiers, present and former, all seem to agree: the situation in Afghanistan is bad and getting worse," the magazine's Evan Thomas and John Barry write, in a news story that accompanies an opinion piece by Fahreed Zakaria. "Some four decades ago, American presidents became accustomed to hearing gloomy reports like that from Vietnam, although the public pronouncements were usually rosier. John F. Kennedy worried to his dying day about getting stuck in a land war in Asia; LBJ was haunted by nightmares about "Uncle Ho." In the military, now as then, there are a growing number of doubters. But the default switch for senior officers in the U.S. military is "can do, sir!" and that seems to be the light blinking now. In Afghanistan, as in Vietnam, when in doubt, escalate. There are now about 30,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan. The outgoing Bush administration and the incoming Obama administration appear to agree that the number should be twice that a year or so from now."

Read more: http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Newsweek_puts_Obama_in_Vietnam_0131.html



Full article at the link...


peace,

-Diane
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 04:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. so now that Obama is in charge, the press finally admits the war is going badly?
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. Bush ran Iraq into the ground for almost six years....
...but I don't ever recall seeing a Newsweek cover reading BUSH'S VIETNAM. Obama has been in office less than two weeks, and a war started by his predecessor seven-and-a-half years ago is suddenly OBAMA'S VIETNAM.

Typical. Just fucking typical...

:grr:

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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. We spent a whole year arguing about whether Iraq was Vietnam
and the mainstream media and the right-wing echo chamber vociferously insisted it wasn't and that we should shut up about it.

You are right, fucking typical.

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bos1 Donating Member (997 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. it's typical but important to note -- the ramifications are huge, the questions many.
Will this be a major factor the anti-progressive forces use to attack Obama?
Is it correct that expanding the war in Afghanistan is a big mistake?
Is Obama just paying his dues to the military corporations that control much of USA politics?
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. No. Yes. Maybe.
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bos1 Donating Member (997 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
5. k&r.
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
6. Afghanistan won't be a Vietnam because
All of the Taliban support comes from Pakistani military and ISI. Stop ALL aid to Pakistan, bring it to its knees, force a drastic cutback in ISI and the military of Pakistan and problem solved. Pakistan cannot survive economically without outside help.
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mikelgb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. makes Pakistan = Cambodia
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
7. And yet, It's too early to judge the Bush's legacy?
Obama has been in office less than two weeks and they've already formed an opinion.

Bush's catastrophe went on for 8 miserable years, and they still want us to wait and let history judge...

:eyes:
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TheEuclideanOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. You raise an excellent point
We should start using that line of reasoning for any argument that we hear from some conservative tool. For example: You don't think that the stimulus program is well thought out? Well, I don't want to hear from you, only history can judge whether the stimulus program will work. :rofl:

I kind of like it and am looking forward to using that argument on some of my conservative asshole friends. (redundant?)
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
8. It's as if the journalists (so called) have come alive after 8 years of sleep.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
10. CNN says "Keeping them honest"
I don't have a problem with that but where have these people been?
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Isn't amazing how they suddenly remember their role is society
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. do they really say that? what a joke. nt
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
12. Another pitfall left by Bush Administration
Obama should appoint Bush Governor General of Afghanistan and send his ass to Kabul. Let him make up his AWOL time.
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Swede Atlanta Donating Member (906 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
13. No it won't' be............
I don't believe Afghanistan will become Obama's Vietnam. Obama is not driven by ideology - he is a tough pragmatist.

He is right to recognize that the early gains we made in 2001-2002 have been diminished because we (a) diverted military resources to Iraq - an ideologically driven war, (2) failed to focus on economic development, (3) failed to help the Afghans develop sustainable institutions, (4) failed to capture OBL, (5) allowed Pakistan to become a safe haven for the Taliban and Al Quaeda and (6) failed to encourage and foster political reconciliation and (7) failed to adequately engage our allies

A. Diversion to Iraq = The war in iraq diverted resources we needed to help finish the military component of the war in Afghanistan. As our military leaders have been telling us for years this war, just like Vietnam, cannot be won militarily.

B. Economic development - one of the lynchpins to eliminating the threat of the Taliban and extremism is to give people hope. Afghanistan is one of the poorest nations on earth. We need to help the Afghans define a sustainable economic program and prosecute it. We need to give them something other than despair or poppy production as alternatives.

C. Institutions - we have made some progress in this regard but much more work is needed. We cannot impose our system on the Afghans. They are a proud people with deep historical roots that include a strongly entrenched system of tribalism. The world community needs to help the Afghans harness the good of their historic systems toward a new and sustainable model.

D. OBL - OBL continues to be a beacon for extremism globally. Not only would bringing him to justice without the use of torture be "just", it would also be a baby step in restoring our place as a nation of laws. Removing him, not killing him, would be a sign to OBL-wanna-bes that the U.S. is determined and will succeed in "getting our man". Killing him if that is the only option must be considered but that will simply make him a martyr and give him his place in history - and according to his belief system a harm of virgins in the afterlife.

E. Pakistan - this is a thorny issue. There is no doubt that there is Pakistani government involvement in creating a safe haven for the Taliban, OBL and their followers in border regions. But we must be very very careful. I for one do not want to see the Pakistani government crumble because what you will have then is total chaos, civil war and the prelude to WWIII. India will react by amassing troops on their border and we would see the situation get worse. We need to be more pragmatic in our cooperation with Pakistan and tie aid, military and non-military to progress in the war on extremism. That includes ensuring the madras' are not used as political instruments to create another generation of young suicide bombers.

F. Political Reconciliation - This is the other leg to establishing stability in Afghanistan. There must ultimately be a reconciliation among all the players in Afghanistan. Remember that the Taliban came into existence in the vacuum that existed after the Soviets were forced, with our help, from the country. They established order, albeit not an order that most of the world community was willing to accept as legitimate. We must bring the tribal leaders, the Taliban, the moderates and the conservatives toward reconciliation. That will be very very difficult given the religious extremism that is in the mix but we must press on this.

G. Allies - I smile when I read quotes in various foreign newspapers about the cost in terms of treasury and human resources of their commitments to Afghanistan. Take for example, Germany, a nation of about 83M people. Their contribution in real terms and per capita is only a fraction of what the U.S. has and will commit to this cause. Our allies need to start help shouldering more of the burden of this effort.

All of that said, Obama won't let this become a quagmire. He knows it will take work on all these fronts to prevail. Because he is not ideologically driven it won't be a win at all cost war. If containing the extremists and marginalizing them is all that can be achieved but it creates an environment that is safer and more predictable for the future, I think he will be willing to accept that. He is a pragmatist, not a political ideologue. That is what drove the U.S. in Vietnam - the political notion that if we don't defeat communism there, communism will spread across Asia and beyond - the "domino effect".
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
14. I never thought I would believe anything in Newsweek ever again, after that shitrag
'news' magazine covered for Dick Cheney on his meeting with Gary Condit on the very day--and during the very disappearance hours--of one of Condit's mistresses (Chandra Levy), but...

I think they ARE right that Afghanistan is "Obama's Vietnam." The trouble is, as several astute commenters in this thread point out, their timing. Their timing is ALL.

There is absolutely NOTHING to be gained from continuing to kill Afghanis. There is NO ONE in Afghanistan whose death would "keep us safe." The best thing from everyone's point of view, except the war profiteers, is to STOP killing Afghanis. No conquerer on earth, from Alexander the Great forward, has been able to subdue the tribes on the Afghan-Pakistan border, and nothing short of nuking the entire region will 'succeed.' Deja vus all over again. That was exactly the situation in Vietnam (--a people with a 5,000 year history of repelling invaders). The "quagmire" in Afghanistan is already far more advanced than the "quagmire" that LBJ 'inherited.' But I can't see that Obama's intentions are any different. He said during the campaign that he would move the Forever War from Iraq to Afghanistan. That is what he is doing. The main purpose of the war on Iraq was to hogtie the Iraqis to the oil contracts. Mission accomplished. But NOW what will our humongous war machine do to 'make a living' (out of death)?

Doubling US troops in Afghanistan is beyond stupid, from the point of view of the American people, the Afghani people, the world and all of history to this point. But people just don't get to be emperor...ahem, president of the United States unless they've pre-agreed to beyond stupid military policies. It's the whole game. We are a Beyond Stupid empire.

Those few who are profiting, however, are not stupid. Enter Newsweek and its 'sudden' realization that Afghanistan is like Vietnam, and tagging Obama with it. Hear the drumbeat of civil disorder? It's already starting. So, go ahead, get out in the street and protest "Obama's War," and escalate the protests when he and Congress cook up a "national service" program to feed cannon fodder to the Forever War, and get ready for big anti-war protests, grannies-in-wheelchairs protests, veterans' marches, food riots, agents provocateur, skinheads weighing in, the lot. Germany 1932. Economic meltdown. Fracturing of the center-left, and its inability to govern. Rule of law destroyed, in our case by 9/11 and the Patriot Act (and so much else). That's what the Dark Lords likely have planned. They are going to use Obama's agreement to do what they asked him to do, against him, in order to create the narrative for Diebolding him out of office in 2012, and Diebolding the uber-fascists back in.

Thus we will be denied even the "scraps from the table" that Obama is trying to get us now, and will become the full-blown "1984" nazi nightmare that Orwell envisioned.

That's the plan, I think. I don't know if it will work. We are a very different country than Germany. As W.B. Yeats said, history does not repeat itself--it's not that boring; it is instead a gyre, a spiral, with repeating themes, and we thus have repeated opportunities to learn certain lessons and to change the outcome.

Lesson no. 1: Newsweek WANTS this war. They are a war profiteering, lying, propagandistic, piece of shit of a magazine. Don't be fooled. Step back. See the Big Plan.

Lesson no. 2: The reason Obama had to make certain promises to the war profiteers is that they now have direct, 'TRADE SECRET' code control of the voting machines--with the code owned and controlled by far rightwing corporations. Obama is a good guy, in my opinion, truly elected (by a larger margin than we know), and doing the best that he can--he might even like to curtail the out-of-control 'military-industrial complex'--but he is operating under severe constrictions. The best thing we could do for ourselves, our country and Obama, is to rid our election system of 'TRADE SECRET' code and restore transparent vote counting, so that we can prevent him being Diebolded out of office, and, of course, start electing real representatives of the people to Congress.

Lesson no. 3: The bitter lesson of the awfulness of corporate 'news' monopolies is before us. Likely, we cannot do much about it, until we restore transparent vote counting, but we should do what we can. Ditto--our filthy campaign money system.

Lesson no. 4: The mistake of the Sixties generation--my generation--was in not fully comprehending WHY the Vietnam War occurred, and addressing the root of the problem: the 'military-industrial complex' with a secret government, working on its behalf, to manufacture wars*. The Bushites' novelty was to direct this war machine toward a corporate resource war. But there need be no purpose to it. It is truly a Forever War, that perpetuates itself, no matter what. There WILL be war, because the war profiteers MUST have it, to justify trillions of dollars in profiteering. They are like a great cancerous growth on the back of the public--sucking the life blood out of every dollar we earn. There is NO NEED for 90% of this cost. We can defend ourselves very well, from any major threat, with 10% of the current 'defense' budget, and a little diplomacy (--and as for "terrorism," good police work). Our military spending is NUTS. Insane. Unnecessary. But it is self-perpetuating, never reduced, always increased, and when no serious threat exists, one will be invented out of whole cloth, as with the "war on drugs" and the "war on terror." We need to stay focused on this root problem--as we restore our voting system to transparency, and work on other mechanisms of democracy, by which to retrieve our country from this 50+ year wrong direction--which originated with the failure of the US to demobilize after WW II.

Lesson no. 5: Peace will never be given to us freely by our war machine. We must look to the mechanisms of power that we have--or can regain--as a people, to force dismantling of the war machine, and to achieve peace.

The secret government that manufactured the Vietnam War assassinated JFK, RFK and MLK in order to prevent the peace movement from succeeding.* JFK had just turned toward the new goal of ENDING--entirely ENDING--the Cold War (disarmament, peace with Russia, end of proxy wars, sympathy with the social justice cause of revolutions like Cuba's), when he was killed in 1963, and RFK and MLK were fully developed along those lines, when both were assassinated five years later. TWO DAYS after JFK was killed, LBJ ripped up JFK's plan for withdrawing from Vietnam, and said, of the war profiteers, "Now they can have their war."*

We need to KNOW this history, to understand it and to bear it in mind, when deciding upon political action now--especially with regard to President Obama. While methods for removing peace-minded presidents may have changed, we need to understand that any president who seriously acts to achieve a general peace will be removed, one way or another. And no one who does not agree to the perpetuation of the war machine will get anywhere near the White House. To gain power, Obama had to agree to this. We have MUCH, MUCH work to do, on our political institutions and on grass roots organizing before we can change this. Years, decades of work (--like the South Americans have done--we can look to them for the model--the democratic, leftist revolution that is occurring there now did not happen overnight; it took about a decade). When your impulse is to go out into the street to protest "Obama's War," go instead to your local county registrar's office and demand transparent vote counting. You will be doing a lot more to end the war machine! Antiwar protest without the power of the vote is fairly useless, as we have seen, time and again. The practical aspects of power--such as the power of our vote--has to take priority, although a groundswell of public outrage at the Forever War will also be needed, to protect those leaders who DO represent us, and to shift the emphasis away from leaders to The People.

In the '60s, they simply killed our peace-minded leaders. That's one way of taking away your right to vote. They also traumatized a generation with 55,000+ soldier deaths and 2 million people slaughtered in Southeast Asia. Now they mostly Diebold good leaders--or keep them in line with the threat of Dieboldization (combined with corpo-media 'swift-boating'--such as this crap from Newsweek). Don't complain about the leadership you get, in these circumstances, if you don't try to change the circumstances. You also need to understand the subtleties of the power that the war profiteers have over our leaders. Obama is severely constrained by the power of the war profiteers to destroy his administration and throw him out of office. WE need to act to remove some of those constraints. No one else is going to do it.

-------------

*(MUST reading: "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why he died and why it matters," by James Douglass. Douglass lays out the case, in meticulous detail, for the CIA laying the trail from Oswald to Russia and Cuba, in order to trigger a US nuclear attack on both, which the MIC thought they could win. JFK considered nuking Russia to be insane. After the Cuban Missile Crisis--when he stared armageddon in the face, and saved us and the world from a nuclear war by the skin of our teeth--he opened backchannels to Krushchev and Castro, to END the Cold War. Kaput. Fini. No more nuclear weapons. No more arms race. That was his goal for his second term. This is also meticulously documented in Douglass' book. LBJ--whom Douglass does not believe was party to JFK's assassination--felt he needed to cover up the CIA's intention, in order to protect our secret government from public outrage, and also to prevent the public's incomplete understanding of the plot, which might lead to a demand for retaliation or some other forcing of LBJ's hand. LBJ also opposed a nuclear war, but fully supported the Cold war. Thus his comment, "Now they can have their war" (Vietnam).)
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
16. If Obama does as promised in Afghanastan
and escalates with no end in sight, he'll be ignoring a valuable history lesson.
Iraq is not the same. Obama inherited an immoral disaster from Bush, whereas Johnson radically upped the ante in Vietnam in relation to what he inherited from Kennedy.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
19. NO specific military objective....
NO specific exit strategy....

Oh yeah, escalating the Occupation of Afghanistan is a wonderful idea.

Obama & The Democrats are perilously close to OWNING this War Crime.
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mucifer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
20. The press should hold his feet to the fire on this one.
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