CONYERS: "Our Responsibility-If Crimes Were Committed-Those Responsible Should Be Held Accountable"

[kpete]

January 31, 2009 at 15:03:11
1/31/09:
Our Responsibility

by John Conyers Page 1 of 1 page(s)

www.opednews.com

............

I have previously explained my view that a full review of the record must be conducted by an experienced and independent prosecutor, and should focus on the senior policymakers and lawyers who ordered and approved these actions. Others, such as my fellow Michigander Senator Carl Levin, have suggested similar measures. This approach is compelled in my opinion by the basic notion that, if crimes were committed, those responsible should be held accountable - after all, is there any principle of American freedom more fundamental than the rule that no person is above the law? If this independent review concludes that the Bush Administration's legal constructs make prosecution impossible for some, so be it, but the matter should be given a proper look before such judgments are made one way or the other.

...................

To me, the bottom line is this: If we move on now without fully documenting what occurred, without acknowledging the betrayal of our values, and without determining whether or not any laws have been broken, we cannot help but validate all that has gone on before. If we look at the Bush record and conclude that the book should simply be closed, we will be tacitly approving both the documented abuses and the additional misdeeds we will have chosen to leave uncovered.

That is why there is nothing partisan about the call for further review. In the end, these acts were not taken by George Bush, or by John Yoo, or even by Dick Cheney - they were taken by the United States of America. By all of us. There is no avoiding the responsibility we all bear for what has been done, and for what we choose to do next.

Our country has never been perfect. This would not be the first time we were forced to take a hard look at difficult choices made in times of peril. But when we have done so before, it has made us stronger, both by improving our policies and our practices and, more fundamentally, by strengthening our moral core and by breathing new life into the principles of our founding.

The responsible way forward requires us to look back as we go.

more at:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Our-Responsibility-by-John-Conyers-090131-220.html

[Ian David]

1. Oooh... Johnny Letter strikes again. n/t

[byeya]

41. Rep Conyers needs to stop talking and start doing.

His little letters don't mean squat. I'd like to see a moratorium on quoting this elected disapointment until and unless he backs up his words.

[Why Syzygy]

2. I call BULLSHIT.

Bush's 30% did this.

[Skidmore]

3. There are plenty of people complicit in the state of the nation over the past

8 years, including many Democratic Party leaders. Those who stood by and meekly handed Congressional war powers to * are on the top of the list. Those who fell over themselves and one another rather than speak truth or vote against these travesties are among them. Those who willingly participated in catapaulting the propaganda are among them. Those who personally profited from the war are among them. Those who participated in setting up the financial house of cards which sustained the perception of wealth behind the war juggernaut are among them. Plenty of Dems are to be found there along with that 30%.

[chill_wind]

6. Yes.

eom

[Why Syzygy]

9. You are right of course.

I posted in haste.

[tomp]

40. all those people, but not me!

noam chomsky and john conyers would like each and every citizen to share the blame. sorry, not buying it.

[Fireweed247]

58. Conyers is one of the most guilty, leading activists on then doing nothing

now he has stalled Rove's subpeona :grr:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4966263

[chill_wind]

4. with the tireless protection and assistance of an execrable American mainstream media.

ESPECIALLY with their protection.

[Downtown Hound]

11. So very true

Bush would never have gotten even close to as far as he got without the media's help. The media are probably second only to the neocons themselves in terms of their guilt.

[chill_wind]

5. Facilitating Fascism: J'accuse

Facilitating Fascism: J'accuse

by Zbignew Zingh

J'accuse by Zbignew Zingh
copyleft 2006

What kind of doctors has the United States trained who stand by idly while prison guards force-feed prisoners in Guantanamo Bay with plastic pipes shoved down the noses of the shackled and tortured?

What kind of psychologists have we educated who assist the Pentagon inventing new ways to torture men and women, breaking their minds without breaking their skin; who help create government propaganda, plant false news stories, devise “psy-ops” to mislead us all?

What kind of lawyers are these who work for the Department of “Justice”, the “Defense” Department, the Pentagon or the White House, who waste their careers finding legal loop-holes justifying torture, deceit, eavesdropping and imprisonment without charge?

What manner of scientists, hardware and software engineers have we graduated who dedicate their intelligence and creativity to devising deadlier weapons, more secretive ways to snoop, and more innovative ways to kill?

What types of ministers, priests, rabbis, chaplains and reverends are these who mutter empty palliatives to their congregations, run through empty chants and mindless prayers and paeans to Love and Holiness in pursuit of a Life to Come, while today, right now, human carrion burns in their names, and naught do they do at all?

What types of writers, journalists, editors, reporters, actors, what types of men and women are these who slavishly say and write and do as they are told knowing that they spread lies and deception and blather?

Although this nation is led by a few, its actions are facilitated by many. We are the facilitators – the professionals, the educated, the trained – we are the ones whose skills and knowledge keep the whole machinery moving, the cogs oiled, the system operating smoothly. Without the collaboration of the entire class of facilitators, nothing happens. No invasions occur, no bombs drop, no one is tortured, no one is disappeared, no doublespeak is spoken. The minority of “Leaders” do not actually commit hands-on crimes. You will not find Mr. Rumsfeld's, Mr. Cheney's, Mr. Bush's fingerprints at the crime scenes in Iraq any more than you could find Mr. Kissinger's on the casket of Allende. The leaders lead, but their employees, the facilitator classes, do the deeds.

I deny that America is a land of fools. We all know. Everyone of us. What some do not know, they do not want to know. The myth of propaganda is that it imparts falsehoods to the people. The truth of propaganda is that it discovers the falsehoods that the people want to believe, and imparts it to them as they want it.

The hypnotist cannot hypnotize someone who is not willing.

The falsehoods disseminated by the Leaders and the Media are the alibis for the Many doing what they want to do anyway. Propaganda is the cover for the crime: We did not know what we were doing. We were deceived. We were dupes. We were fools. Therefore, we can profit and do what we do with a clear conscience.

J'accuse!

There is no one in the educated world who cannot know the truth if s/he will know it.

The psychologists, lawyers, writers, reporters, ministers, scientists, engineers and doctors who deny the reality of the harm they do as employees and as gladiators-for-hire for this global empire would also deny the nose on their face.

The brightest minds on earth gave us the nuclear bomb... deployed by the dumbest, most venal minds on earth. Science and medicine and the law, in the service of military aggression, do not discover knowledge, heal or seek truth. Rather, they become weapons themselves, no better than cudgels wielded by cavemen. The scientist, doctor, psychologist, chaplain or reporter who sell their services, and their professional oaths, their professional creeds, their professional standards, for the sake of a Job, a Career and Security, do not deserve the name “professionals.” These are not real doctors, psychologists, lawyers or scientists who “research” on behalf of their clients and employers how better to harm people, how more efficiently to interrogate them, how more effectively to kill them, how to sell them more drugs, more lies and more harmful products, how to develop more intrusive technologies to probe private lives. They are prostitutes. They are mice. They are the facilitators of crime. They know it. We know it.

J'accuse!

It is not endless polite protest and demonstrations - as and where permitted - that will stop war and aggression. Nor will socially responsible investing nor voting for Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum nor giving to charity nor meditating nor even publishing trivial little essays like this.

What puts a stop to all is when the majority of the facilitators of fascism – the professionals, the psychologists, lawyers, doctors, writers, reporters, teachers, ministers, priests, rabbis, scientists and engineers decide, at last... if ever... to rebel against the employment that makes them well-salaried galley slaves rowing to the beat of a danse macabre.

Let there be Leaks.

Let there be breaks in the ranks.

Let there be Dissenters.

Let there evolve vertebrate professionals and the evolution of a new facilitator class. One with true professionalism. A facilitator class with class.

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http://www.ersarts.com/cgi-bin/pikie/ersarts/ersarts.py?FacilitatingFascism

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/chill_wind/21

[Psychic Consortium]

10. Excellent post. Yes we must all accept responsibility for what has happened.

We are a democracy and the leaders represent us.
The crimes were done in our name, with our money.
And the corrupt leadership had much help from the people.

Karma time.

[chill_wind]

23. Except that many of our leaders DIDN'T represent those of us who

wrote, called faxed, begged our representives to choose differently over these years, over and over;
those who signed a million petitions to our government, who wrote endless letters to a perpetually propagandizing media, sent burning LTTE's of our local papers, showed up to otherwise protest, showed up to vote, worked to get out the vote--those of who rejected and fought somewhere, anywhere--with our time, our donations-- to causes and groups working tirelessly against the facilitator class. Too many of us were not represented, and too few of us have been able to throw our present representation out.

But that class of facilitators is much larger than it admits to being. I like to think not much of that class exists here at DU at all, but Bush and Cheney had a lot of help from a lot of corners and the machinery of creeping fascism in this country-- a LOT of help. From a whole LOT of 'well-salaried galley slaves rowing to the beat.'

These are not real doctors, psychologists, lawyers or scientists who “research” on behalf of their clients and employers how better to harm people, how more efficiently to interrogate them, how more effectively to kill them, how to sell them more drugs, more lies and more harmful products, how to develop more intrusive technologies to probe private lives. They are prostitutes. They are mice. They are the facilitators of crime. They know it. We know it.

J'accuse!

(...)

What puts a stop to all is when the majority of the facilitators of fascism – the professionals, the psychologists, lawyers, doctors, writers, reporters, teachers, ministers, priests, rabbis, scientists and engineers decide, at last... if ever... to rebel against the employment that makes them well-salaried galley slaves rowing to the beat of a danse macabre.

[cooolandrew]

28. That's an incredibly good article and conveys the message subtly.>

It would be nice to say we had no part in it but logically we do even if unawarefully. Although certainly those in power hold the greater share of the blame.

[G_j]

29. very good

I'll be passing that one on.

[earcandle]

35. Wow! Thank you for this! I posted it to my

news section at my Noodle Brain Productions website It is a gateway to the humanities and a stupid person's guide to enlightened capitalism. I am sure the people here could make a better site with that purpose in mind, but this one is mine.

Mr. Zingh can not say this better. We need to get our integrity back intact before we implode.

[chill_wind]

39. Thank you for reading it and passing it on.

I've privately turned and returned to those words more times than I can count in the last 3 years since they were written. I see the original link is now since broken, but websites like yours will help preserve and let those words live on.

[msongs]

7. more do nothing from the say anything guy nt

[ooglymoogly]

8. Johny talks a good talk but to now walks a silly walk nt

[readmoreoften]

17. Are you saying Congress= the Ministry of Silly Walks?

[ooglymoogly]

55. yes

[ooglymoogly]

56. yes

[bvar22]

12. I am as frustrated as most....

...by the lack of "action", BUT I'm willing to cut him some slack.
At THIS point, I WILL settle for ANY Democrat who is STANDING UP and putting these charges into the public arena.
Not many Democrats have the courage to do this much, and he is undoubtedly under pressure from the Democratic Party (many of whom are complicit) to keep his mouth shut.

I am surprised at the effort on DU to marginalize John Conyers. He was one of the very few who carried the flag during harder, more dangerous times. He can do NOTHING without our help.

Instead of condemning and ridiculing Conyers, we should offer collective support and calls for action. If Conyers is silenced, who will pick up the flag?
:shrug:

Pelosi?...(complicit)
Reid?....(complicit)
DiFi?...(War Profiteer)
Hillary?...(LOL)

[chill_wind]

24. Truth! n/t

[MasonJar]

13. Well, the point he is making is that a special prosecutor is called for.

How can Obama possibly oppose that? The Congress appointed one for Clinton because an affair and lying about it. This is spying on American citizens, lying our nation into a war in which many innocent people were murdered, torturing and the list goes on. We cannot just move on from that; I am sorry, President Obama, but we cannot. The crimes are too many and too egregious. We,the American people, are culpable in the same way the German people were in the 30's; we did not stop it. We barely let it influence our spending regimen, that is, of course until the Bushista destroyed that along with everything else.

[earth mom]

14. BULLSHIT Conyers! There is blood on YOUR hand & the rest of Congress & * Co.

NOT THE PEOPLE.

So don't even dare put that on the people-especially the ones that protested for years the evil that is equally YOUR fault! :grr:

[kentuck]

15. That's the miracle of "bi-partisanship"...

Get a few Democrats to agree with your criminal acts and no one is ever prosecuted for anything....ever.

[readmoreoften]

16. Fuck that. I take responsibility for none of this. It wasn't "all of us".

It was those in power and those who supported them. The House and the Senate can go right ahead and feel the guilt they ought to feel for being bought off cowards. Those of us who have concussions from beating our head against the walls of Congress, we're not responsible for what idiots and cowards foisted upon us for their own gain.

[pacalo]

18. Having written & called many times & having them go unanswered, I reject responsibility, too.

But I think he was addressing the congress critters who "speak for us" & are in a position to either punish the treasonous cabal or to keep the welcome mat out for future treasonous administrations.

[jtrockville]

38. Ditto for me. My hands are clean.

I spoke out, wrote letters, made phone calls, attended protests. I did everything I could think of in protest of these crimes, the criminals, and those who did nothing in response.

Screw you Conyers. And can I please have my donation back? I gave to your campaign back in 2006 when I (foolishly) took you seriously.

[pacalo]

53. Most all of us were suckered in back then.

I remember writing Conyers many times, with the naive notion that he had the courage to act.

[byeya]

43. Billy Graham, Watergate, Nixon & Guilt

After a prayer session with Nixon, the southern divine, Graham, emerged to say, "We are all responsible for Watergate."
Well Billy, I was alive then and I assure you that I had absolutely nothing to do with Watergate. Nada. You, Billy, are still alive and are still full of shit.
Can Conyers say he had nothing to do with any of Bush's crimes?

[EFerrari]

19. What is this "if"?

:puke:

[Ghost in the Machine]

20. Conyers: "Blah blah blah, blahbiddy blah blah,,, BLAH!"

"Blahbiddy blahblah blah blahbiddy blah blah. Blah blah blah blahbiddy blah blah, blahbiddy blah..."


Piss off, you spineless fucking jellocrat. You're an embarrassment to yourself and to our Party.

[Solly Mack]

21. "If"?

for links

They (Congress) saw pictures and videos of rape and murder at Abu Ghraib

Posted by Solly Mack in General Discussion
Wed Jan 14th 2009, 05:16 PM

and that wasn't enough proof - Rumsfeld: Worst Still To Come


The CIA admitted to water-boarding


Back in 2006 Cheney admitted in an interview that they were - "dunking a terrorist in water" - (water-boarding) people, and not too long ago he admitted it again


When the story came out about the torture team, Bush admitted to knowing about it and what they did...planning individualized torture programs for detainees.

And a host of other confirmations - from the ACLU Torture Documents


And then comes the torture memos


There is NO "IF" about it.

[autorank]

22. Love you John Conyers - but it wasn't "US" - it was "THEM"

THEY lied about Iraq and made it stick with nuke threats, not US

THEY lied about the economy, particularly Greenspan recommending ARMs in 2004, not US

THEY lied about torture, not US

THEY lied about health care, not US

THEY lied about everything that was important to US

I respect and admire John Conyers, but he's not talking about US because, even those who supported
Bush-Cheney through the first few years, were simply duped by information sources that they'd come
to rely on.

It was not US that created this mess, it was THEM!!!

[kaybea]

25. Words like "if" and "should be" signify that nothing will be done.

[NashVegas]

26. Well. There Goes 70% of Congress

[quiet.american]

27. Through the dark days of Bush, Conyers was among the few to shoulder holding this democracy together

I'm with you, Rep. Conyers, and thank you for your stalwart efforts, when very few of your colleagues would openly support you, to lead investigations and establish for the record the many abuses of what is most likely the most traitorous administration in this country's history.

[psychmommy]

31. do you remember he tried to have hearings and they

stuck him in a tiny room in the basement. cspan covered it. it was like a ray of sunshine during some very dark days. keep speaking out rep conyers.

[rateyes]

33. That's when he was in the minority. When he became chair,

all of a sudden he had no interest in bringing Bushco to account.

[quiet.american]

59. That's not really the whole truth of the matter.

Speaker Pelosi issued her decision that there would be no impeachment proceedings. It would have been very difficult, I'm not even sure it would have been possible, for Conyers to fight his own party (the Blue Dogs), his own party leader, and the GOP at the same time to impeach Bush.

(Much as I would have loved to see that little worm (Bush) squirm).

[quiet.american]

57. You know I had forgotten about that? GOP bastards. nt

[Old Codger]

30. Not me

He was not MY president, ever,I didn't voter for any of that bunch of crooks. I am not guilty by proxy. BUT, congress and the senate are in fact "guilty as sin" they approved a goodly part of what happened either by direct vote in favor of or by turning a blind eye to what they knew was happening and not doing their sworn duty to uphold our constitution and impeaching * when it was apparent to everyone in the world what was happening. Conyers and pelosi and reid and everyone of them.

[rateyes]

32. Fuck off, Conyers...

Put up or shut the fuck up. Your committee is charged with oversight. You were sent a resolution from the full house for your committee to investigate and recommend impeachment of Cheney...YOU DID NOTHING!

We are tired of your bullshit talk. Either do your fucking job, or get out of the fucking way and let Wexler do it.

[BlooInBloo]

34. Phew. Without this Sternly Worded Letter, I don't know *what* we would ever do....

It's too bad that man isn't in a position of power and leadership - just think of the good he could do!

[eowyn_of_rohan]

36. i refuse to accept responsibility for what has been done in our name

but if it sticks, John, and lights a fire under their butts - I'm all for it.

[rhymeandreason]

37. Conyer's BS reminds me of one of those Customer Service Reps

who assures you that he can help you then puts you on hold for fifteen minutes then gets back with you to spend fifteen minutes collecting information then puts you on hold for another fifteen minutes then gets back on to explain that somehow all the information he collected somehow got lost and he will need to get it again and does and then puts you on hold again until the Muzak loop has completely played out when he comes back to tell you that his unit can't actually handle your problem so he will have to transfer you to the appropriate department whereupon you spend another fifteen minutes on hold and finally realize that you have been disconnected...

Utter nonsense. We're all to blame, good grief, what a pathetic rhetorical dodge. The public made their wishes clear years ago. The wars should have been ended and Bush should have been impeached in 2007. The invertebrate congress is complicit, corrupt and incompetent.

See also:

The John Conyers-Karl Rove showdown has been delayed.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3715513

Conyers, Cohen file H.R. 104, Seeks Commission to Investigate Bush Crimes
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x263863

And this outstanding and detailed DU journal entry summarizes the problem:

Conyers Explains Why He Hasn't Impeached
Posted by davidswanson in General Discussion
Wed Jan 14th 2009, 01:38 AM
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/davidswanson/717


Enough of Conyers mellifluous empty rhetoric and hollow gestures; serious measures need to be taken to salvage the nation from the depradations inflicted on it in the last eight years.

[martha thacker]

42. Most protests during the run up to the Iraq war

in history. So when I hear we didn't know the weapons of mass destruction weren't there...I want to puke. Jon Conyers and Nancy Pelosi should be charged with negligent homicide. Along with hundreds in MSM for supporting and promoting a war for oil.

[paparush]

44. I was hopeful that under the Obama Adminstration Conyers would grow a pair

and go after these criminals.

I see too much willingness to move on and not do the hard work of justice.

[L. Coyote]

45. The US either MUST do this, or they can await the next attacks.

We the People must make clear to the world that WE are not the war criminals.
The only way to do that is to punish those who illegally went to war, and committed the war crimes.

The more we can do today to set our Nation apart from the criminal Bush Junta, the safer we and the whole world will be.

[Deep13]

46. What do you mean "we," Congressman?

Nobody gave a shit what I had to say about any of this.

[Bluenorthwest]

47. All of us?

Sorry. The guilty are guilty, and those who are not are not.

[thereismore]

48. That's why nothing has been done about it, lest "we" all be found guilty! nt

[govteacher]

49. W's Own Words

"The United States is committed to the world-wide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example. I call on all governments to join with the United States and the community of law-abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment.... Nowhere should the midnight knock foreshadow a nightmare of state-commissioned crime. The suffering of torture victims must end, and the United States calls on all governments to assume this great mission."

George W. Bush on the UN International Day in Support of Victims of Torture
June 26, 2003

Probably the ONLY time I agreed with W. He said it himself - "... investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture..."

Perhaps Pres. Obama and the Congress need to be reminded of his statement and take him at his word.(they took it way too often when they shouldn't have!)

[Javaman]

50. Fine John. Whatever you think will get you through the night. In the mean time...

the rest of us hardworking Americans will do our jobs and be accountable.

more congressional blathering.

so when is John going to serve Harriet Meyers with a warrant? or Rice for that matter? oh damn, forgot about those, huh, John?

John, wake me up when you actually do something other then give us lip service. no one believes you anymore, you have cried wolf once to often. Now you are a wolfs meal.

[old mark]

51. Politicians and "responsibility" ? I think not.

We still know so little of what was done by the Bush Regime, and we need to do a lot of investigating before we really get the complete story, but I am certain there will be enough blame for everyone.

mark

[HillWilliam]

52. "We", Johnny? You've got a turd in your pocket?

It sure as hell isn't "me" in this "we" of yours. YOU have had the power to investigate, impeach, seek conviction, subpoena, compel testimony, seek arrest; not the rest of us. What have YOU been doing up there in DC other than collecting a bigass taxpayer-footed check and sitting on your widening arse? Oh, yeah, the famous sternly-worded letters.

Ho-f'ing-hum. Kiss my foot, Congressman. There's no "we" in this complicity and blame. It's "you" at this point. You are the one who's letting the criminals walk when you have the power to stop that. Don't you dare try to pull a "we".

I suppose that once again the blogosphere will have to do Congress's job. When we do, you won't like it.

Look at what happened to the repukes. Jessayin'.

[DinahMoeHum]

54. Either shit or get off the pot, Conyers. . .

You don't do something. . .then some of US will do something.

:grr:

[Senator]

60. HIS Impeachophobia Put Torture In The Name Of "All Of Us"

The responsible way forward is for HIM to look back on HIS OWN failure to ACT to stop the ongoing torture and war crimes.

To me, the bottom line is this: His "fully documenting" baloney is just one more http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Senator/14">lame rationalization for inaction. He has been http://talkingimpeachment.com/blog/Hall-of-Shame-Inductee----John-Conyers.html">"tacitly approving" these atrocities for literally years.

It was HIS duty to stand up to the complicit/corrupt, impeachophobic DC-Dem "Leadership," to enforce both our treaty obligations and US Federal law in the absence of a functional executive branch, to do more than simply lament the fact that our values and moral ascendancy were tossed on the scrap heap by a war criminal regime.

He chose to cower. We all bear the shame.

--

[mentalslavery]

61. The bill does not investigate manipulation of intell.

Which is strange, because that is a serious and long-standing practice of the United States. Of course, if there were concrete evidence that bushco intentionally manipulated intell then congress is forced to face this situation as a War Crime. Additionally, the evidence might endanger some dems. Government investigating the government, gotta love this country. The people who voted to give bushco a blank check are going to investigate all the liberties he took with that blank check. I mean, these legislators encouraged him and now that the blogs informed the masses about the "office of special plans", they feel an obligation.

Folks, this is our job. Thats how a democracy is supposed to function. We are supposed to do the hard work of holding poli's accountable. I know its hard to work 50+ hours and monitor large children with dangerous toys, but we have to. It is our fault, we were obligated to stop this before it started. We have been complicit. We have been lazy. I hope that is over. Taking responsibility is not looking around for who is "supposed" to deal with situations, it is standing up and dealing with the situation as well as telling others to get involved. If poli's won't lead by example, then I guess we need to lead them and set an example for the next generation. This is how democracy works, your attendance is required and this is more than just a touch screen party.

[rateyes]

62. How in the hell Conyers can say:

"Our Responsibility-If Crimes Were Committed-Those Responsible Should Be Held Accountable," and not choke on the words is beyond me.

Conyers had the chance to hold those committing crimes accountable---through impeachment---and, he sat on his hands.

Conyers, IMO, is a fucking coward.