Microsoft: Layoffs for some, visas for others

[OhioChick]

Source: Business Week

2 Feb 2009, 1430 hrs IST, BusinessWeek

Even as the economy hemorrhages jobs, many employers continue to advocate for fewer restrictions on importing foreign workers to fill specialized jobs. They say that while there's growing slack in the job market, there are still shortages of people to act as farm hands, nurses, and software engineers.

Not surprisingly, foreign-worker programs are coming under fire in the face of the highest U.S. unemployment rate in 16 years—7.2% in December. One of the critics' biggest targets is the software giant Microsoft.

A longtime advocate for more skilled immigration, Microsoft continues to ask Congress to lift caps on the H-1B visa program for highly skilled workers and offer more green cards to foreign-born talent. As recently as Jan. 5, the company posted a policy proposal on President Obama's transition Web site requesting that the government "remove caps that bar entry into the U.S. by high-skilled immigrants." Several weeks later, on a Jan. 22 earnings conference call, the company announced plans to eliminate 5,000 jobs in research and development, information technology, marketing, sales, finance, legal, and human resources over the next 18 months, as well as thousands of contract jobs.


Read more: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Features/Job_trends_during_times_of_turbulence/Microsoft_Layoffs_for_some_visas_for_others/articleshow/4064164.cms

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As recently as Jan. 5, the company posted a policy proposal on President Obama's transition Web site requesting that the government "remove caps that bar entry into the U.S. by high-skilled immigrants."

More BS from Microsoft.
Following the 5,000 layoffs, this was posted, as well: (Note it requests H-1B's only)

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Job-Keywords/microsoft.htm

[BobRossi]

1. First order of stimulus bill should be revocation of H-1B visas.

Americans need jobs, it is not our responsibility to employ every third-world software engineer.

[Smith_3]

4. Yeah, kick out the foreigners.

:eyes:

[liberalhistorian]

5. Oh, give me a fucking break.

Why the hell should temporary foreign workers be given preference over Americans who desperately need the jobs? That's bullshit and I'm sick of the racism charges around here against those concerned with keeping American jobs and angry with hypocritical, greedy companies who slash tens of thousands of American jobs but both keep temporary foreign workers and advertise for more. How about some concern and sympathy for the hundreds of thousands of perfectly qualified Americans who desperately need jobs? How about considering them first before temporary foreign workers?

[Smith_3]

7. All fine as long as you are talking about reducing the number of foreign workers that will be hired.

As opposed to discussing terminating visas and kicking out the ones that are already here.

[ihavenobias]

19. KIck n/t

[Vincardog]

21. Why can't we reduce the new hires and terminate the visas and kick the ones that are here out?

Why not send a foreigner home instead of sending a US worker into homelessness?

[OhioChick]

25. India firing foreign workers to give jobs to locals

India firing foreign workers to give jobs to locals

Expatriate executives making way for local hires


28 Jan 2009, 0503 hrs IST, Sanjeev Choudhary, ET Bureau

NEW DELHI: Expatriate executives, who were the flavour of the season when India was riding high on a 9%-plus growth rate, are now becoming the Job-cuts: A blessing in disguise
Cos that are hiring
first ones to get the pink slip as Indian industry, hit by the slowdown, starts looking within the country for inexpensive hires.

“Many of the expatriate executives, who have been asked to leave, are subject experts. Their value diminishes in a downturn as companies are no more expanding, and thus don’t need people to guide in a new venture,” says K Sudarshan, MD of executive search firm EMA Partners’ India unit.

Since October 2008, there has been a spate of replacements of expat executives with Indian professionals at the senior level.

Aviva Life Insurance appointed former Citibank executive TR Ramachandran to replace Bert Paterson as the CEO for its Indian operations. Insurance firm MetLife replaced its CFO Nick Paket with an Indian hire. And, according to executive search firms, two top expatriate executives of another insurance firm are slated to leave in March, to be replaced by Indians.


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Jobs/Expatriate_executives_making_way_for_local_hires/articleshow/4039529.cms

[cascadiance]

11. We should stop hiring newer H-1B Visa workers, and also convert those....

... that are already here on H-1B Visas to Green Cards, and force the companies that hired them to pay the costs of doing this conversion to teach'em for trying to low-ball their workforce by hiring so many of these.

At least once those that have been hired with H-1B visas have been converted to Green Cards (those that can qualify), they will be more on a level playing field with domestic workers, so that they can't be made to work for cheaper salaries without them jumping ship to another company for more money. Now they still present additional competition for many American workers in need of a job, but at least they won't have their salaries kept artificially low (and many domestic workers out of the market), if they have more freedom of movement here. And the term of their Green Card would be what they had with their H-1B Visa, so that they have the same time commitment they had before, but ultimately would have to do what's needed to get a regular green card today if they want to stay here longer.

Doing it this way won't make us try to pull back from our commitments that we've made to them when we've given them an H-1B visa earlier, but would give them additional rights (freedom of movement). That way we don't screw them, we screw us less, and DAMN the companies who hired them... They can suffer the added costs!

[TahitiNut]

17. An H-1B visa is SPECIFICALLY designated as "non-immigrant"

At least in the federal statutes, such visas are NOT a path to immigration and (formally) intended as TEMPORARY. Supposedly, such visa holders are prepared and intending to return to their home countries after the term of their employment.

:shrug:

[cascadiance]

20. Which is why we shouldn't really have them...

Now, if they want to stay here as citizens or green card holders, then we start them down that path, but only promise them the commitment already given time-wise by the H-1B Visa card. We need to modify it so that these folk aren't in effect indentured slaves of the company that hired them and brought them over here. Whether that means sending them back immediately, or finding a way to transition them to terms normally accorded to green card holders (at least on a temporary basis), i'm no immigration expert, but that is what should happen so that they are at least competing on an even keel and can leave for better pay just like we can, so that they don't sit it a poorly paid position, and screw the availability of reasonably paying jobs for the rest of us.

Allowing this setup to continue only continues to perpetuate the rewarding of company owners/management at the average worker's expense, the way so many other things are working now which are bringing down our economy.

[liberalhistorian]

24. Good idea and good points. It's not the foreign workers

I'm against, it's the companies that knowingly hire them at the expense of Americans who are perfectly qualified for those jobs, simply because they can pay them less and work them more for less. This would be a good solution that would force accountability from said companies.

[Howardx]

12. amen

why we should protect foreign workers when americans need the jobs is beyond me.

[OhioChick]

18. Bingo and Well Stated.

:thumbsup:

[sharp_stick]

8. Probably illegal, and surely dumb n/t

Not all H1B is a software engineer. Personally I think they should remove these dime a dozen jobs from the H1B program and return it to what it was designed for bringing in people that can do a specialized job.

Beside my own bias to the entire program, it's just plain stupid to pretend that we can simply revoke the VISA of someone who obtained it legally.

[Vincardog]

22. Again why is it preferable to protect the foreign worker at the expense of the USA worker?

[Triana]

15. Ditto - 100% agreed - and with liberalhistorian's above too. n/t

[notesdev]

2. It's a no-brainer

Stimulates a good amount of economic activity, requires fewer federal expense dollars, takes some Americans off the unemployment rolls, and keeps the earned income inside the United States.

And I know for a fact that we have more than enough software engineers of our own that we don't need to import foreigners. I can barely count the number of people I know who have tech skills but got chased out of the market by the H1-B crowd.

[ixion]

3. H-1Bs and offshoring are a bane to the technology industry

among others. A few H-1Bs are obviously productive, but using them to staff jobs simply because you can pay them slave wages is a load of crap, and should not be tolerated. A company should be allowed no more than a couple H-1Bs, but not hundreds or even dozens, IMO.

[billybob537]

6. Microsoft can afford to train

engineers for those positions. End of argument.

[sentelle]

14. They certainly can.

Microsoft could certainly afford to do that. When the powers-that-be at M$ say that there are not enough software engineers in the US. In fact, BGates with his foundation has promoted education (with windows, natch), overseas. That's not an indebtment of him. The following is though: M$ does its best to avoid contributing to anything. M$ oficially processes all the revenue for its software in Nevada. Why? No corporate tax. This means somewhere on the order of several hundred million dollars was not in the tax base in its home state of Washington (Redmond is about an hour from Seattle, in traffic). Several hundred million dollars goes a long way in the underfunded education system.

Rather, they expect us to subsidize their workers, and then get a low wage (and seeing what they expect from their employees, this could be a 1 year job before burnout) .

Not illegal, but very immoral.

[Azlady]

9. We need to contact our State Reps,

and the media with regard to putting something in the stimulus package with regard jobs for USA workers. You can not tell me people in the USA are not qualified for those jobs Microsoft has posted for Forgein workers...

[Pachamama]

10. If Microsoft or other tech companies want more visas: They should be required to set up a technical

scholarship fund that for every H-1 visa they hire, they will fully fund the training of one American to be trained to the same skill level. Then, when that person graduates, there is the need for one less H-1 visa and Microsoft will have a person to replace that foreign worker. :hi:

That's my prescription.

[pacalo]

13. The banks who were bailed out are doing the same thing!

Foreigners are attractive hires because companies have found ways to pay them less than American workers.

The dozen banks now receiving the biggest rescue packages, totaling more than $150 billion, requested visas for more than 21,800 foreign workers over the past six years for positions that included senior vice presidents, corporate lawyers, junior investment analysts and human resources specialists. The average annual salary for those jobs was $90,721, nearly twice the median income for all American households.

(...)

The AP reviewed visa applications the banks filed with the Labor Department under the H-1B visa program, which allows temporary employment of foreign workers in specialized-skill and advanced-degree positions. Such visas are most often associated with high-tech workers.

It is unclear how many foreign workers the banks actually hired; the government does not release those details. The actual number is likely a fraction of the 21,800 foreign workers the banks sought to hire because the government only grants 85,000 such visas each year among all U.S. employers.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090201/ap_on_bi_ge/bailout_foreign_workers

This is outrageous.

[TahitiNut]

16. Gee, only 4,434 H-1B visa jobs at Microsoft last year. (Poor babies.)

Nevermind that it's the HIGHEST in eight years!

Year H1B Visa Cases Average Salary Maximum Salary Minimum Salary Standard Deviation
2001 1615 $71,492 $135,000 $10,500 $12,853
2002 1365 $79,489 $225,000 $33,572 $16,398
2003 1927 $78,341 $660,000 $33,280 $19,098
2004 2257 $80,850 $880,000 $46,267 $22,432
2005 2149 $84,457 $250,000 $41,101 $14,406
2006 4779 $87,534 $755,000 $48,000 $23,322
2007 4187 $88,273 $262,500 $26,476 $15,491
2008 4434 $90,877 $960,000 $42,250 $25,933
2009 8 $98,883 $120,098 $88,000 $10,416


:puke: :puke:

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa_Summary.aspx?N=Microsoft&OG=All&E=356252

[ieoeja]

23. I'm 50-50 on this issue.

I fully support the global headquarters of a multi-national bringing together employees from all their offices, even those outside the borders of the country where they are headquartered. It just makes sense.

On the other hand, I see no reason for massive hiring of employees from outside both the country *and* the company. What purpose does that serve? There are specific circumstances where you might want someone who knows the culture/etc of a country where you wish to do business in the future. But on a large-scale basis, I don't see any decent justification.

[ChromeFoundry]

26. We don't need an H-1b program for IT type work.

We have had a surplus of qualified people looking for work.

We only lack companies with ethics!