"The last thing we need now is a retaliatory trade war." : Day

[Sandrine for you]

While the Buy American provision would be seen around the world as an abandonment of Washington's traditional support of free trade, it could be a domestic political winner among protectionist lawmakers and the unions that helped Obama capture the White House.

The trip, the first foreign foray by the president, will come just a few days after Obama hopes to rush the economic stimulus package into law.Asked if that could be an irritant when Obama meets Harper in Ottawa, Day said: "You can clearly make suppositions from there that if it's not resolved by the time the president arrives here, I know how concerned our PM is about this.

"In no uncertain terms they're telling us: `We hear you, we recognize you've got concerns with this, we're doing some work. Keep talking to us, and stay tuned.'"

That, said Day, "is sort of the message I'm getting from the U.S. trade representative."

More: http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/580523

.......................................................................................................

Will the Canadians be the first to pay for the hope they got in Obama ? Some people here worked for the Obama organization, I'm asking myself how they feel actually.

OK on edit: Canada is not a asian country, we are just on the north frontier, and where your first trading partner before you open your frontier to China and India. Our syndicate rate is bigger than your's, mostly the double. And we ask ourselves why we have to pay for the stupidity of your banking legislation.

[bkkyosemite]

1. I canvassed, I phoned banked, I donated money, tables and cleanup time...Buy American!!!

[bkkyosemite]

2. And I want my food grown here, I am sick of trying not to buy third world food for my table.

Buy from the USA........

[Sandrine for you]

4. I understand your concern, but Canada is not exactly from the

third wold, and in fact, our food is better than your's.

The last time my family go to Boston, we eat in a buffet for our last dinner. Every-body was sick right after that, like if we eat in a third wold restaurant.

[Oregone]

8. USA grown food is all over the place here FYI

But yes, Canadian produce is usually crawling with e-coli. Their waste treatment plants will not be effective until they have power generators and running water.


:sarcasm:

[Sandrine for you]

12. Yep and in my town we still use our own shit to grow our grass...lol

[treestar]

141. That's one thing we should be exporting, not importing

We have tons of good farmland and should be a bread basket.

Every country has its products. Ours should be food. Which is basic and the need doesn't go away.

Instead we make bombs and guns. We make airplanes, and only some of those are for warmaking purposes.

That's why we spend so much time causing trouble in the world. We make the stuff for fighting purposes.

[Sandrine for you]

3. Some people from the north make it too, thank's.

[DJ13]

5. Our financial crisis stems from our 25 years of losing good income jobs

It wont be fixed unless we put the brakes on our corporations continuing to outsource.

This is a necessary step in that direction.

[Sandrine for you]

6. So your American corporation can exploit our oil and send it to

your country, but you don't want to buy our steel...

Thanks.

[DJ13]

10. You sell your oil on the open market

Seriously, your economy wont improve until we get ours under control, and to get it under control requires our country not be as easy as a $20 hooker in trade deals as our workers no longer have sufficient income to continue buying the worlds goods since the rest of the world has what once was our manufacturing jobs.

[rockymountaindem]

11. Thank your own government for signing NAFTA

which gives the US the right of first refusal to Canadian oil.

Besides, there will still be free trade under "buy American" provisions. There won't be any tariffs on Canadian goods, nor quotas, nor VER's There will only be the stipulation that anybody working on a project financed by the stimulus package can't buy foreign goods. It's a way of making sure that the money we spend in the USA provides the most help to our citizens. Is that too much to ask? Canada already has a large trade surplus with the USA. NAFTA has been great for Canada, and this provision has nothing to do with it. It won't do one thing to make it harder for American consumers to buy Canadian products. It *will* make it the rule that we spend our tax dollars on our own citizens. That's just fine with me.

[Sandrine for you]

14. Our agreement apply to government project,

so you will not respect your own signature with your best international friend?

[dbonds]

16. We discussed this in the other thread you started...

But if the funds are not for Buy American, they shouldn't be allocated at all. This will not be a deal in making for others, this is to keep our economy from going down the toilet and taking the world with us. This helps the world as well as us.

[Sandrine for you]

17. So you will simply not respect your signature with your best international friend.

[shari]

18. What?

Do you want us to go under? How will that help anyone?

[Sandrine for you]

20. I don't see how 2000 more unemployed persons in Gaspesia will help them

to buy american products.

Hey we are not some stranger from Asia, we are the first partner of some of your own states.

[dbonds]

25. How does our Stimulus cause 2000 unemployed in Gaspesia?

This isn't money that would be going there, this is money we are basically creating to solve a very specific problem. While I sympathize with 2000 unemployed, this money is not being taken from them. Would it make you feel better if they did it the way Bush did and send everyone in the US a few hundred dollars to do with as they want (which didn't help because people didn't spend it)? If there is a crisis in Gaspesia with 2000 unemployed someone needs to address that, but it isn't part of this bill. I don't know if you realize it but the US has millions of unemployed and things are getting worse. This bill isn't to actually stimulate the economy as much as it is to stop the economy from crashing. If you are looking for a lifeline and you see this bill as it, sorry but we are doing our best not to go under ourselves. When we get stabilized we can look at helping out, but if we go under then the world economy crashes.

[Sandrine for you]

33. Simple..your country need infrastructure...

we are supposed to part of the bid. But because you think that it's a special program, we cannot. So we lost job simply because you don't respect your agreement.


Le Canada exporte pas moins de 40 pour cent de son acier aux Etats-Unis. L'industrie emploie quelque 6000 personnes au Québec.

D'après l'Institut canadien de la construction en acier, dont la directrice a été interviewée par le quotidien La Presse, l'entrée en vigueur du plan mettrait en danger le tiers de ces postes.

More: http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/politique-canadienne/200902/02/01-823400-acier-ottawa-veut-regler-le-differend-avec-les-etats-unis.php

[dbonds]

40. No , you didn't lose a job. The job doesn't exist.

The bill isn't because we need infrastructure, that is where you are misunderstanding. The bill is because we are dieing. So we create the project for us to do to help the economy. You are starting to sound uncaring and greedy. I have explained what this bill is, it is to save our economy. Without it we go under, do you not care about that? Talk about not honoring a partnership - you would let us go under so you could make money.

Oh, and apologies, but I can't read the French part. I have never learned - on my to do list though.

[Sandrine for you]

46. All project are in evaluation, always. You need infrastructure, like we

are. You can't just destroy alliance just because you name it a special project. Our cie make projection in time, if they feel that they have no access to the "special" investment in the USA, they will just close the town and go to some US village where nobody know nothing about syndicate.

I don't know nothing about spanish so....

[dbonds]

You are not addressing what I am saying.

We are going under. This is our lifeline. If you try to grab our lifeline from us then we go under. Then the world goes into a global depression - no credit, no trade, stagnation, massive unemployment, and no hope. That can last for 10 years or more. Is that what you want? That is the alternative.

[Sandrine for you]

58. Ok I really feel the panic in your word, sorry If I make you feel

that I don't understand you. I'm not asking from you to buy everything that come from my bastard cie. Just to respect the best friend you got. I'm not talking about China, I'm talking about a country who will respect his signature and invest our taxes, even if it build american job.

[dbonds]

60. And we will respect it, but for this one exception.

This exception is necessary to prevent things getting much worse for both of us.

[Sandrine for you]

63. Anyway I expect that our leader will have more comprehensive talking than we do.

[dbonds]

65. Very True

Oh, you may see posts on this board talking about NAFTA, most hate it. Not because of Canada, but because of Mexico. The cheap labor pool in Mexico was abused by many of our manufacturing companies cause many to loose their jobs in the US. We were told this would bring the standard of living up in Mexico, but it hasn't. They kept the standard low so the labor would remain cheap. Many want out of this agreement because it has been harmful to the US and hasn't lived up to its promises. I don't think I have heard anyone complain about the Canadian side of the agreement. So don't take people wanting out of NAFTA to mean we want to break the deal with Canada. I think Obama is looking for a solution to the problem without breaking NAFTA, just refining it so the labor issues are resolved with Mexico.

[Sandrine for you]

66. Yes

I notice this problem about the labor in Mexico, and you are the first exposed to it.

But I think it's my problem to make some pedagogy here.

[Hello_Kitty]

71. YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO MY FUCKING TAX MONEY!!

Gah.

[Sandrine for you]

75. So you are not entitled to have any agreement to anybody.

[treestar]

142. This is going to be borrowed money

This stimulus is from borrowed money. This is Bush's fault. But we aren't saving ourselves with our earned money but with loans.

[dbonds]

19. Your missing a point

This is not a deal in waiting for any other country. If it isn't in the US, then it won't be allocated. If it doesn't happen this way we won't be around to respect anything. Would you rather a Canadian company get a small deal now and the US go under or many deals over a longer future?

[Sandrine for you]

22. When we start a program to expend the wind energy with

our own money taxes, a lot of american cie beneficed of it. And we all feel good because we respect our agreement.

[dbonds]

31. See my post above.

We do respect that agreement. Are you saying you would want to prevent us from stopping our bleeding to death (which is what this stimulus package is). We are not asking out of the agreement, we are asking for the right to survive. This money is not going to be created for just an arbitrary project, it is created with the sole purpose of stopping our bleeding. If it does not go to that purpose it won't be created. To create money to send out of the country only increases the bleeding.

[Donnachaidh]

30. that signature is going to be the equlvalent to SQUAT if our economy goes down the tubes

But hey, let's quibble about the signature ad nauseum while nothing is done at all. :eyes:

[L0oniX]

23. Jeeze ...get a clue ...you guys have already contracted it all out to China ...pffft smell it!

[Sandrine for you]

28. So your american corporation exploite our oil and send it to China...

[Donnachaidh]

35. and you got NOTHING for that oil?

Oh yeah, we held a gun to the head of the owners of the oil fields. Jeez -- why don't you ask HARPER to do HIS job, rather than bitch about our country? Seems to me like you folks want to ignore the FACT that you too voted an asshole into office, and now you can't get rid of him.

Look to YOUR leadership. Kick his ass to the curb.

[treestar]

143. Calm down - we elected the much bigger asshole first

And being dominant in the world, drag the world down with us - we need to be more in humble mode. After all we are bailing out with borrowed funds - we need a friend somewhere. We don't need to be jerks to Canada at this point. It sounds like this provision could be bad for them in some way - but we're supposed to be a free trade area, so maybe we can work something out.

[L0oniX]

78. What? You can't do it yourselves? jeeze ...so you need a multinational corp to do it for ya?

[girl gone mad]

We're "exploiting" your oil, but you whine that we won't exploit your steel?

That's quite a contradiction in your post.

[Oregone]

9. Is this a step, or a very large blind jump?

[Mari333]

29. amen. n/t

[FreakinDJ]

7. The Economic Crisis is because we buy Foreign made goods

We can't just keep sending our money overseas

[Sandrine for you]

13. Then economic crisis come from the huge mistake from your

government from the 8 last years. Where are not sure if you really elect him, but we don't feel we are the one suppose to pay for that.

And actually, we pay for that, now in recession. Thanks.

[Donnachaidh]

37. Repeat after me -- HARPER is YOUR GUY.

HARPER -- remember HIM?

Remember, y'all tried to kick him out and he thumbed his nose at you? HARPER -- the Canadian version of George W. Bush? The one y'all FAILED to get out of office? The one who made all those DEALS with Bush and his cronies?

Repeat after me until you get it right -- HARPER is MY leader. HE is MY leader. HE is the one responsible for CANADA...

rinse, lather and repeat as many times as needed. :eyes:

[Sandrine for you]

42. The partnership was make by Clinton, he put his signature.

Repeat after me : "We just don't care about our own legitimacy" with our first international friend.

[Donnachaidh]

149. Clinton is LONG Gone dear.

And sweep away the delusions about what a great leader HE was -- he gave the US worker Nafta. Now he hols hands with wealthy men in Dubai, and doesn't give a shit about anyone who cannot give HIM money.

You still seem to think WE are at fault. I wonder how many of YOUR representatives in Quebec were willing to do *anything* to get contracts signed.

This whining will succeed as much as the Quebec wanting to be it's own country. Lots of whining, lots of pouting, but in the end -- as screwed as everyone else. :shrug:

[dbonds]

47. You have the answer there in your post.

If you don't let us fix our economy you will be paying for it in worse that a recession, it will be global depression. Things have only begun to get bad. We have to try to stop that.

[FreakinDJ]

145. Got News for you - it already is Global Depression

[FreakinDJ]

144. WRONG - the last 28 years - since Trickle Down Economics

made it ok to destroy the working class and ship our jobs overseas

[cynatnite]

24. I thought it was because of lack of credit and mortgages not being paid. n/t

[Sandrine for you]

26. We don't have this problem here...why ?

Maybe because we make best legislation...just a guest.

[cynatnite]

27. Where are you? n/t

[Sandrine for you]

39. Quebec-City.

[bkkyosemite]

44. Exactly. I remember when most was made in the USA and the products were well made.

[shari]

15. They just plain don't care.

From what I've seen, there is no-one who really cares if we have jobs. Do you think that anyone who displaces an American worker by working for less cares if there is an American family without an income? No. And YES, they do realize that they are taking someones job, Tech jobs, construction jobs, factory jobs, and on, and on, and this has been going on for a long time. It IS time for us to care about our jobs because no-one else does. They don't even stop to think that if we don't have jobs we can't buy their products.

Edit to add: BUY AMERICAN

[L0oniX]

21. Bring it on moe moes ...we don't export shit except WMD's and other weapons of war.

Oh yea I almost forgot ...we also export jobs! damn it all to hell and back

[Elwood P Dowd]

32. We export tons of stuff.....

discarded aluminum cans, discarded plastic, dead computers, dead televisions, old batteries, computer viruses, pollution, and used condoms just to name a few.

:sarcasm:

[pampango]

139. Third largest exporting country in the world behind Germany (1) and China (2). n/t

[L0oniX]

146. I believe in Peter Pan too n/t

[pampango]

147. Very convincing response. You have anything to contradict my post? n/t

[L0oniX]

160. no links?

[chollybocker]

34. Ignore anything Stockwell Day says.

He's a right wing loon on par with, say, Lindsay Graham, i.e., beat up a lot in high school and taking it out on the population.

[Waiting For Everyman]

36. It. Is. To. Create. American. Jobs.

What part of that do you not understand?

[Sandrine for you]

38. It is for rebuilt infrastructure, we have an agreement, what part of "signature"

you don't understand ? A governmental project ? We are suppose to be able to bid.

[Donnachaidh]

41. HARPER . HARPER. HARPER. HARPER.

So tell me -- who runs the CANADIAN government?

[Sandrine for you]

43. Harper, who run the USA government at the we agree : Clinton

[Seldona]

57. So in what could be our worst depression ever,

we are supposed to add to OUR debt to prop up YOUR jobs?

Huh?

[Sandrine for you]

61. We will do the same things, For the first time for a long time

we will have to take a huge debt, it's annoying alot here, but we will do it even if it create american jobs. Because we respect our own dignity, and our signature.

[Hello_Kitty]

84. Really? How many American jobs are y'all planning to create?

Not many, I'm guessing.

[Sandrine for you]

109. We hae to give you the number? You think we are Irak or what ?

[Hannah Bell]

136. how about if everyone supports internal markets in their own countries

& just trades what they can't make at home?

is there some reason mexico can't make jobs for mexico, us for us, canada for canada?

why does the us, for example, need to sell corn to mexico, when mexico can grow perfectly good corn itself?

oh, yeah - so archer-daniels-midland can control the world's food supply, i forgot.

[Donnachaidh]

150. Clinton is LONG GONE toots.

grab a recent history book. :eyes:

[pampango]

151. I think Sandrine for you referenced Clinton as the president who signed NAFTA which

is where the agreement between Canada and the US to allow each other to participate in government projects is located.

[Waiting For Everyman]

52. You are not hiring Americans. You are no part of this program.

[Sandrine for you]

56. You call it a "program" like if it's anormal to build infrastructure....

we all do this at this time of difficulties. Som when it happen, all our agreement go down the toilet ?

[Waiting For Everyman]

68. It is a particular, specific bill for the purpose of American jobs.

That is what it is FOR. It is a law being passed FOR that, and only that. We wouldn't be doing it at ALL except to create American jobs. Someone else tried to explain this to you, but you don't seem to understand that.

[Sandrine for you]

73. Yes so you have the right too take "specific" bill to make infrastructurs,

without any concern of your first international friend. But when we do, we have to accept bid from USA. So you don't have any dignity ?

[cynatnite]

80. The money is getting spent here first...as it should be.

America workers first since it's American taxpayer money. Period.

[Waiting For Everyman]

86. Are we bidding on your stimulus program? Gee, that isn't in the news.

I didn't hear anything about Canada doing one. When and if you do, I can't imagine us trying to shove our way into it. Certainly not in the way Canada is doing. I can't imagine President Obama demanding that our companies be hired in your jobs program. And you talk about dignity. That's a laugh.

[Sandrine for you]

123. It's not in the news that you are acting illigally, this is new for you ?

are you really supprised after 8 years of Bush ?

[Waiting For Everyman]

126. You're making no sense.

[cynatnite]

45. Did the US force Canada to trade, buy and sell?

Did Canada unknowingly go into business with the US without understanding how the banking industry here works?

I do know the US bears a certain amount of responsibility for the state of the world. I understand that.

But if the rest of the world knew how the US worked, how the US sent money and goods to the four corners, and the world saw that the US was a good place to invest...knowing what the banking industry was about and knowing the legislation we have here...shouldn't the rest of the world's financial markets take some responsibility as well?

Seems to me there were greedy people ALL OVER THE WORLD.

[Sandrine for you]

48. You can't ask from a little business man who supplied an

american cie who exploit steel from his region to really understand the fucking jeopardy of the american politic. So he will lost everything, and also his employee too. Just because you are not people on who we can believe your signature.

[shari]

51. so..........

Then why do you want to do business with us?

[Sandrine for you]

53. Because it's usefull to civilisational partner to have big economics link.

We have our own specialisation. Don't know nothing about economy ?

[cynatnite]

54. It's not just the little Canadian guy paying...it's everyone including Americans...

but there is also a factor you continue to ignore. It's called GREED. Some Canadians have it, too. They went along just like Americans, Brits, Germans and others around the world.

They all got greedy and didn't give a shit about the rest of the world.

As I said, I know America has it's part in this, but America didn't do it alone either.

[Sandrine for you]

59. Hey, no canadian bank are going to the toilet, no nationalisation, why ?

I miss the word bank...sorry

[cynatnite]

62. Canada isn't immune...

Canada could well have started 2009 in a worse recession than the United States after data showed the economy contracted in November at its deepest rate since the Ontario blackout five years ago.

Michael Englund, chief economist at Action Economics said it is a hard scenario to picture given the number of job losses, bankruptcies and mortgage foreclosures taunting the world’s largest economy. But the dynamics of the Canadian recession would be different.

He said Canadian consumers would not be hit as hard as those across the border because of relatively smaller declines in employment and spending. However, the sharp downturn in Canadian manufacturing, particularly in the auto sector, a weaker Canadian dollar, and a drop in energy prices amid lower exports would cause an economic contraction of 5% in the first three months of this year compared with a 4.5% drop in the more diversified U.S. economy.

"Canada not only has a disproportionate exposure to autos, but to its benefit had a disproportionate exposure to the resource economy, until it has no longer been necessarily a benefit now that commodity prices are suddenly falling," Mr Englund said.

Surprisingly, the U.S. outperformed most major economies in 2008, growing 1.3% over the year compared with a predicted 0.6% in Canada. Mr. Englund expects the difference between the two nations will narrow, with Canadian gross domestic product down 1.6% compared with an annual drop of 1.5% in the United States.

http://www.canada.com/business/fp/Canada+could+worse+than/1235115/story.html

[Sandrine for you]

64. Yes you'r right, we are too exposed to the american economy

we must diversified. Who will pay for that in the long run...americans. Especially if we feel that we cant put our trust in your agreement.

Edit becaure I'M tired so my englih become really poor.

[girl gone mad]

121. Hate to be the one to break it to you..

but many places in Canada have their own housing bubble.

[Hello_Kitty]

91. Then what the fuck do you need MY tax dollars for?

[Sandrine for you]

107. The question is not about your taxes money, it's about

an agreement Clinton put his signature one. When my country put taxes money and give it to american cie, anybody here are crying: it's our dignity. We believe in our agreement. You don't believe in the agreement with the Clinton signature?

[Hello_Kitty]

111. You still haven't answered how many jobs Canadian taxpayers have created for Americans

I understand that many people would like to get their hands on part of the stimulus package, that doesn't mean they deserve to.

[Sandrine for you]

108. Please go to the end of the conversation to speak,

because It's not easy to respond to all post.

[Tansy_Gold]

124. it's late here, too, Sandrine, but I'm gonna address you

I'm not sure why. I guess it's because I'm angry, and what I perceive as your selfishness has just stuck in my craw.

Your English is much better than my French, so I'll just have to tell you to look up "sticks in my craw" to find out the meaning.

You know how when you get on an airplane and the flight attendant goes through the emergency procedures routine? And they tell you to put the oxygen mask on yourself before putting it on a child? That's because YOU can take care of THEM, but THEY can't take care of YOU.

Now, you're going on and on and on and on, post après poste après poste, whining that Bill Clinton signed an agreement avec Canada and we gotta honor it NO MATTER WHAT. You sound like a spoiled little kid. "But you PROMISED!"

Well, honey, sometimes in desperate time promises have to be broken for the better of everyone concerned.

The the US economy goes totally belly up, she ain't gonna be tradin' avec La Canada any more than avec la Chine ou la Mexique ou quelle outre pais. We are in debt up to our frickin' eyeballs and if we don't turn things around, les chinoises are gonna march right over here and take possession deed in lieu of just about everything.

The thing about friendships, with or without signatures on pieces of paper, is that they work both ways. It seems to me that you want our friendship for what it can do for Canada, but you don't seem to care too much about doing anything for us. You're worried about 2000 or 3000 or 4000 jobs in Gaspesia. how much do you think they matter to us when there are 500,000 who lost their jobs here in December and another 500,000 in November, and we don't even know for sure yet how many in January?

You had had Harper; we had boooosh. We had Reagan; you had Mulroney.

We're neighbors, and sometimes more than neighbors. Some of my ancestors came to the U.S. by way of Canada; some of them even stayed there. One of my great-great uncles was a member of your parliament. But there comes a time when even family members have to back off and say, "Look, I've got my troubles, but I know you have to take care of yours first. You work it out, and I'll hang on, and then we'll work on our common problems when both of us are at full strength."

Now forgive me for the tough love here, Sandrine, but frankly not too many here on DU are gonna be sympathetic to your whining. Canada probably can't consume its own resources; it's still a producer/exporter. Without a reliable market for your products, and that includes your oil and natural gas and lumber, your economy will go down the tubes. So it's not likely that you'll cut us off, because you WANT trade with us. Well, in order to keep the bulk of that trade, you may have to watch a slight decline as we struggle to bring our own steel industry back online after a generation of stagnation. Are we gonna stop buying steel from you? No, not entirely. We aren't going to stop buying oil and natural gas from you. Or electricity. In fact, if our infrastructure renovation projects pan out, we may have a much more efficient electrical grid that will use MORE of your electricity and maybe SHARE more of our with you.

You taken enough of my time. I'm still marginally employed and I hope to stay that way for a while yet, so I'd better get back to my subsistence level contracting work.

As for you, ask not what our country can do for yours, ask what you can do for both of us.


Votre amie,

Tansy Gold

[Sandrine for you]

132. Thanks for your post. I got to sleep now If I want my employees

to get a job tomorrow. But I'm taking your post with real respect and interest, and will make a post tomorrow with it. If you don't object.

Thanks.

[bkkyosemite]

49. If we do not get our food grown back here (and we eat much from China you just don't know)

and lead in toys and dog food poisoned....we need to make things here. To get blue collar jobs back here and to know our food is grown where we can chew the company out because they reside here if their standards are not up to par. But overseas our food is not being inspected and is grown in the most polluted areas of the world.

Many frozen fruits and vegatables are from China, Turkey and South America.

Our kids toys are inferior.

The items we buy do not live long lives as they used to because they are made from cheap labor, in horrible conditions and we are not told where most of it comes from.

As far as Canada goes they are our neighbor but pay yourself first is the only way we are gonna get out of this mess. I'm sure we will still do business with Canada but I don't want to see another label that says Made in China (communist, polluted, tortured county that would love to see us dead) where our corporations have taken our jobs...we'll cept Phillipines and India......

[RB TexLa]

50. It will be removed, we are not going to have Cowboy trade policy. It's just as bad as Cowboy

diplomacy. There are a lot of "U-S-A" chanting neanderthals who think we aren't part of the world or that we are above all other humans but we are part of the world and they are our equals.

[Waiting For Everyman]

55. You're the cowboy hotshot. Plunder at will free trader.

We have no obligation to bleed ourselves to death to prove anything to the likes of you, or the world.

And if this provision is removed, I think Obama will have his first bad day. Just a hunch.

[Hello_Kitty]

77. That one is really getting on my last nerve

He must be involved in outsourcing.

[Waiting For Everyman]

89. Thank you.

Either that, or banking. Probably both.

[Hello_Kitty]

82. So you think US tax dollars should be used to create jobs in other countries?

I already know the answer to that.

:thumbsdown:

[KoKo]

67. Oh...do you belong to the Heritage Foundation or Brookings Institute?

Or, perhaps you only watch Fox News or belong to your local
"Chamber of Commerce." That's the only way that you would post this Crap! FREE TRADE or FAIR TRADE with Workers Right Provisions?

Which?

[Sandrine for you]

69. I'm from Québec, and I'm pround that my people have the double rate of syndicated employement

compared to the USA.

[Hello_Kitty]

70. Are they paying you people to come here and post this crap?

This is like the 3rd or 4th time I've seen this particular talking point about Canada.

And we ask ourselves why we have to pay for the stupidity of your banking legislation.

I'd like to know why you feel entitled to U.S. taxpayer money before the Americans who need to be put back to work.

[Sandrine for you]

72. I'm not paid for this, I do it because I care for my country and because

I estimated a lot from the relationship we have with you. Thanks to understand the real love we have for the american people, we are so proud of your new president. I was crying at the inauguration.

[Hello_Kitty]

74. Great.

You're still not entitled to MY tax dollars. I am currently unemployed and if there any jobs created from this stimulus plan which is being funded with (once again) MY tax dollars I'll be goddamned if they're going to be created in another country. The purpose of the stimulus is to resuscitate the American economy. If that doesn't happen, Canada is screwed. Along with everyone else.

[Sandrine for you]

76. Ok read the post before you, then maybe we should talk.

We are not china, we are a country who are the first partner for some of your most succesfull states.

[Hello_Kitty]

79. Be that as it may you are still not entitled to my tax dollars to create jobs in your country.

You want the contract, incorporate in the U.S. and hire Americans.

[cynatnite]

81. This thread really should have been locked from the beginning...

It's obvious flame bait. The OP is trolling.

[Sandrine for you]

87. I agree with you, this thread is controversial, but

it is a question of progressive understanding. WE, the Canadians who work for Obama, in a another country than our owns, We have the right to ask question. We, the Canadian, we have a double rate of syndicalist compare to USA. And you just want me to be censured from DU ?

[Hello_Kitty]

90. There's no such thing as censorship on a private message board

You post here at the discretion of the administrators.

[Sandrine for you]

95. Yes thank's for the administrators who think

we should have a comprehensive and progressive discussion about this.

[Hello_Kitty]

98. I've had just about enough "comprehensive" globalism, thank you very much

I trained my foreign replacement before I was laid off last year.

[Sandrine for you]

110. Ok I'm sorry for your distress, and understand that you don't want to talk to me.

[cynatnite]

96. It's not the discussion itself...it's your behavior on this thread...

You're portraying yourself as some kind of supporter, but you're not. Not by a long shot.

[Sandrine for you]

112. I'm sorry you take it that way, I hope we will have better understanding in the future.

I don't know what it take to be a supporter, but really, I gave week and money to make sure that Obama become the President. I was feeling that it if some progressive movement take the power in Washington, maybe the world will feel better. Anyway, anything from a stupid moron as Bush will be better.

But now I see that we need big comprehension before it go better.

[Hello_Kitty]

88. It's really boiling my blood.

I was laid off a year ago and will be out of money soon.

[Sandrine for you]

97. I'mreally sorry for your situation, and I'm asking you your

pardon if I make you feel that I don't understand your situation. But I have to make some pedagogy here.

[Hello_Kitty]

99. I've heard all your arguments before. You are teaching me nothing.

I need a job NOW and I damn well better get one from the stimulus package that is being funded with MY tax dollars before someone in another country does.

[Sandrine for you]

83. That's no so simple, we are creating job in america: whn we

en enforced our win energic capability, just 3 month away, we accept to invest our taxes money in some american cie, just because we have some dignity, and respect our signature, the one who Clinton put.

[Hello_Kitty]

85. How many?

Can you give me a rough figure of how many U.S. jobs that created?

[Sandrine for you]

92. I can't give a fix number, but figure that my state only (Hydro-Québec)

invest for 2 billions $, who mostly go to american cie, mostly for little entrepreneur of the north of USA.

[Hello_Kitty]

94. A little entrepreneur?

That doesn't sound like very many jobs.

[Sandrine for you]

101. Ok but we do it, just a little people, and you ?

[Hello_Kitty]

102. I don't know. How many jobs created with MY tax dollars do you feel entitled to?

[Sandrine for you]

105. How many jobs have we create in USA ? Mayby you are not

in a north state, so I understand your rudeness, but just ask to someone in a north state, who is living on my taxes.

[Hello_Kitty]

106. How many are there?

How many Americans are employed by Canadian government projects?

[Sandrine for you]

114. So you need a stat to respect Clinton agreement?

[KoKo]

93. YES...it's a Domestic/ Populist Winner for Americans sick of "UnfairTrade"

Kick that Harper out of his office...then we can talk!

[Sandrine for you]

100. I really don't like it, but we cant just wait and please the way you

feel our government to respect the signature of Clinton. what do you think we are ? Irak ?

edit because i'm tired.

[ContinentalOp]

103. Any Canadian DUer who has anything to say about this...

can just shut the fuck up. Seriously. Just stop. Go back to La République Libre won't ya?

[Sandrine for you]

104. Thanks for the real concern you have for your best international friend.

It's so good to be your partner.

[ContinentalOp]

135. I have no problem with Canada.

Just with Canadians who think that Americans should take our tax dollars that are meant to go toward job creation and spend them in another country. :crazy: How about you just go away and get back to us when we're not running a trade deficit with your country, ok?

[Oregone]

113. George Bush Called. He wants his Cowboy Diplomacy back.

[Sandrine for you]

115. Help me on this, I create a monster...

[Oregone]

133. Im not sure why you are taking any of these people seriously to be honest

Yeah, this is probably the popular opinion of most that live in the US (America, Fuck Yeah). As long as it is in their immediate short-term interest, they're game.

[ContinentalOp]

138. Let's just step back for a minute here.

This is an American website about American politics and we're discussing an economic stimulus plan that is specifically devised to help create jobs within the U.S. and give a boost to our economy. And some Canadians have the nerve to come on here and complain that we're not going to be spending any of that money in Canada!?

I mean, I understand that it may have been standard operating procedure under the Bush administration to take American tax dollars and spend them in other countries, but that's just mind bogglingly stupid.

How about a compromise? We'll spend our economic stimulus money in Canada just as soon as you extend your universal health care coverage to us Americans. Deal?

[pampango]

148. The US signed an agreement with Canada that allowed both countries to compete

on government projects in the other country. There's really no way we can avoid having Canadians compete with us on the stimulus projects unless we just walk away from the agreement, there not being enough time to renegotiate it at this moment. Once we start walking away from international agreements (like Bush from Kyoto), how are we different from repubs in that respect?

[Hello_Kitty]

153. Yes there is time to negotiate that aspect of NAFTA if need be

It should never have been in the treaty in the first place. Government projects should go to native companies if at all possible. If anybody should be promoting the industries of a nation it's that nation's government.

[pampango]

155. I'm not sure there's time to renegotiate NAFTA while the stimulus bill is on the table.

They should definitely start renegotiating it ASAP, but my guess is that will take a lot longer than the stimulus bill which Obama wants quickly.

[Hello_Kitty]

157. People are NOT going to be happy if projects go to Canada

Even if it's a small percentage. It's a slap in the face to American taxpayers.

[pampango]

159. You're right about that. Perhaps that will generate more energy to do something

about NAFTA.

[ContinentalOp]

154. I didn't know that...

but I definitely support walking away from that agreement. We should have done it yesterday. I'm not in favor of us withdrawing from GOOD agreements but terrible agreements? Withdraw away!

[pampango]

156. Bush withdraws from Kyoto. Obama withdraws from NAFTA? I wish Obama good luck

negotiating future international agreements when it's apparent that our signature means nothing. I believe Obama campaigned that diplomacy and negotiations were going to be the key to his foreign policy. If he wants his negotiations to carry any weight, I expect he won't start his administration by walking away from this agreement. He should, and I think will, renegotiate NAFTA. If that doesn't work I expect he will follow the withdrawal procedures in the agreement, rather than just walking away from it.

[Hello_Kitty]

116. The unemployment office called

You're next.

[Sandrine for you]

117. Sorry, I will fired some american before....

[Hello_Kitty]

118. I'm sure you will

[Sandrine for you]

119. Exactly, if you don't respect your own dignity, and signature of your last president that we respect

[Hello_Kitty]

120. Yeah, if we don't create jobs in Canada with our tax dollars you'll take those jobs back

All 5 of them.

Oh wait...you've been saying throughout this thread that Canada will never violate the agreement. Oh wait...not that this stimulus has anything to do with NAFTA...:crazy:

Never mind. I'm off to bed.

[Sandrine for you]

122. Yep!! Anyway, Him hopefull that our leaders will have better understanding than you have with me.

Thank-You Obama, I' sure you will understand Canada in a better way than some of your Duers supporters.

In the OP :

"In no uncertain terms they're telling us: `We hear you, we recognize you've got concerns with this, we're doing some work. Keep talking to us, and stay tuned.'"

[Oregone]

125. Unemployment Rate is 3.6%

Im not incredibly worried.

[Hello_Kitty]

127. Where? In your ass?

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

[Oregone]

129. Victoria/Saanich, BC. I left the US months ago

:)

http://www.timescolonist.com/Business/Victoria+still+boasts+lowest+jobless+rate/1162081/story.html

I hedge my bets. I thought even Barack Obama couldn't heal the sickness and anti-intellectual fury in the US.

[Hello_Kitty]

130. Oh gotcha

Yeah, Canada really needs my tax dollars to create jobs. :eyes:

Go Cheney yourself. I'm really off to bed now.

On edit: Seriously, go Cheney yourself with the "anti-intellectualism" shit, you pedantic jerk.

[Oregone]

131. Victoria is an anomaly, massively

Go Cheney myself? And many thought Barack would usher in a new age of global cooperation and understanding. This is mind-numbingly sad.

[ContinentalOp]

134. Yes it is mind numbingly sad...

that Americans would have the sheer AUDACITY to think that our tax dollars from an economic stimulus package should go toward buying goods and services from our own country! What gall! Clearly it would be best to send that money out of the country and further deepen our trade deficit with our Northern neighbor. That would do wonders for our economy! :eyes:

[pampango]

140. It is sad. If Bush was ignoring existing agreements with other countries and doing whatever

he wanted to do, we would be calling for a Democratic president who would negotiate with other countries, rather than go it alone, and live up to our agreements until such time as they are changed. It would seem that the "Bush" way of doing things has been adopted by many here, even though the goals they pursue are different from his.

It makes one wonder why the Kyoto Agreement would even want us to sign. Once we signed, if the Agreement required us to do something that we didn't like (might cost us jobs), we would simply pass a "special" law that we didn't have to abide by Kyoto when we don't want to.

Global understanding and cooperation is, apparently, not a progressive way of thinking. We need to stick it to other countries, regardless of any agreement we have entered into.

[Hello_Kitty]

152. We're not talking about the Kyoto agreement here

We are talking about a stimulus package, funded by American tax dollars - let's be real here - American debt, that is supposed to be putting Americans to work. People like you seem to think that some of that stimulus money should be sent overseas. You're going to encounter some violent disagreement on that. I still don't understand what is so hard to follow about the statement: I don't want MY tax dollars going to create jobs in other countries right now.

[pampango]

158. But we are talking about unilaterally ignoring our international agreements.

All our government projects are funded by American tax dollars and debt. How is the stimulus package any different?

I never said that I want the stimulus money to be sent overseas (does that apply to Canada?). What I have said is that we have an agreement with Canada that our government projects and theirs are open to bidding from both countries. There are plenty of things that I don't want MY tax dollars doing, but I realize that we have to keep our commitments until we change or withdraw from them.

[ContinentalOp]

137. Wow, I'm an official foreign diplomat now?

Who knew? Here's my official statement then:

To the people of Canada who have a problem with some minor US protectionism during a severe economic crisis: FUCK OFF.

[Greyhound]

128. Canadian business has done very well by undercutting us and riding our success.

Now we have lost that surplus and you are understandably worried about how you will continue without our outsourcing to you and our market for you to sell into.

OTOH, there is nothing to prevent you from doing what you have always done before, work with and help us. Right now huge sectors of the Canadian economy are dependent on getting natural resources from us cheap and then selling them back to us dear. This will change, nothing can stop it, how it changes depends on how we agree to make it change. Will we cooperate or compete?