Obama gonna cave on buying American

[Generator]

This is why a little bit Republican doesn't work.

Look who Obama is listening to-quell surprise! (oops that's not American!) Larry Summers-

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/nation_world/2009/02/03/ddn020309buyamericaweb.html

WASHINGTON — A top economic adviser to President Barack Obama Tuesday appeared to criticize a provision in economic stimulus bills that would force federally funded stimulus projects to be built with American materials.

"The president has been very clear that he wants this to be a bill that supports the American economy," said Larry Summers, a top Obama economic adviser. "But at the same time this bill is not going to be an excuse for America breaking its international commitments or embracing any new kind of protectionism."

And voila (oh that French again!)

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE51307220090204

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama said on Tuesday he did not want to send a protectionist message on world trade and would look at altering "Buy American" language in an economic stimulus bill coming out of Congress.

"I think it would be a mistake ... at a time when worldwide trade is declining for us to start sending a message that somehow we're just looking after ourselves and not concerned with world trade," Obama said on the Fox television network.

His comments came as the U.S. Senate was debating a nearly $900 billion economic stimulus plan that allows only U.S.-made iron, steel and manufactured goods to be used in public works projects funded by the bill.



WOW! Looking out for ourselves! CAN'T HAVE THAT. OH NO. Larry Summers no like.

Look who really no like:

Also opposed to the measure: The U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Their president and CEO Thomas Donohue said such provisions would "cost American jobs, trigger retaliation from our trading partners" and "slow economic recovery."


The reason this country is dying is because there is nothing made here. There are no jobs. But no one has figured that out yet. Who's going buy your flat screen t.v.'s and your houses with no jobs? OH only the people making the big bucks that get-voila-the TAX BREAK. A tax break don't mean shit if you ain't got a job. I'd like to see someone on Teevee standing up for Americans that points that out.

[Auggie]

1. Mr. President -- please don't make me change my avatar image

[FrenchieCat]

2. Is Buy American supposed to be the cure all? Is it like English only?

While China holds our paper, were gonna get nationalistic, all of the sudden? That's gonna work.....not. Better we have something not quite so extreme. :shrug:

[FreakinDJ]

11. We got into this mess because every thing is made overseas

America doesn't export any thing any more - we can't pay our bills

So they exported our debt in the form of Credit Derivatives.

You want to fix the economy - You need to revitalize American Manufacturing

[cynatnite]

16. And if it's cheaper I'll still buy foreign, just like I do now...

I'm on a tight budget and can only afford so much. This notion that buying American is the cure is just asinine.

Isn't this why Obama is working at getting America to go green, using infrastructure and other ways of job creation? We won't get those manufacturing jobs back so he's taking a new approach. This is what he campaigned on.

[FreakinDJ]

36. It would be cheaper if you just moved to China

That way you wouldn't be such a Drag on the Economy

[Patchuli]

39. If we are to survive economically,

you might have to make hard choices. We need to reinvest in our own country.

[OhioChick]

22. You got it....

Bring back the manufacturing and tech jobs.

No jobs equal no recovery....

[SergeyDovlatov]

26. We export $140,000,000,000 worth of items every month.

That is quite a lot.

http://www.census.gov/indicator/www/ustrade.html (exports vs imports)

Here is the breakdown of just trade goods we are exporting:

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/Press-Release/current_press_release/exh7.txt

Foods, feeds, and beverages 102,721
Industrial supplies and materials 364,068
Capital goods, except automotive 433,154
Automotive vehicles, parts, and engines 113,718
Consumer goods 148,987

Yes. we have about $40,000,000,000 trade deficit, but it won't last as dollar becomes weaker and foreigners stop lending US money.

Still, even at current prices, for every dollar of export, we are getting 72-77cents of imports.

[ihavenobias]

35. The numbers are astounding. n/t

[FreakinDJ]

37. And the Current Trade Deficit is.....

Only RATpublicans peddel Deficits as a Good Thing

[SergeyDovlatov]

43. I didn't find break down of what foreigners do with the surplus $$$

Some of $$$ hoarded and held as reserves.
Some is used to buy US debt. (reducing budget deficit will help here)
Some of it used to buy stocks on the US stock market
Some is used to invest in US plants, etc.

So, with exception of hoarded dollars they are all coming back to US.

[pampango]

49. Careful - you're messing with the "We don't export anything" meme. n/t

[SergeyDovlatov]

59. lol. I know ;-). Dangerous stuff, isn't it?

Well, I actually believed that meme myself until I stumbled on the data.

[redstate_democrat]

21. What's extreme about not turning the "American Recovery Act" into the "World Recovery Act"?

The U.S. taxpayer should not be brow-beaten into subsidizing the manufacturing and steel industries in countries who we already have massive trade deficits with. This is U.S. tax dollars, not the private funds of some Fortune 500 company who is still free to NOT buy American. The difference here is that some people, mainly Pukes and their various Puke lobbyist/think tank/association organizations, believe that U.S. tax dollars are somehow accessible to everyone except the U.S. friggin taxpayer. The U.S. taxpayer can't get a friggin $25 tax rebate because it's "welfare", but the U.S. Taxpayer should be ashamed of trying to recirculate its own tax dollars within the country instead of subsidizing other countries' economies. Sure, lets borrow money from China so we can just send it back to them when federal contractors buy cheap manufactured goods from China. In the meantime, we're deeper in debt and what do we really have to show for it?

This is TAX PAYER money, not private industry funding a project. We have a right, based on national security concerns, to demand "buy American" provisions in government contracts.

Besides, 2 out of 3 American and Foreign owned companies aren't even paying taxes, yet they want our tax dollars and have the gall to get upset because we're putting conditions on it? Hmpf.

[defendandprotect]

58. Has to be reversed ... or we become China ...

[Deja Q]

3. Good points, but it's also true that when the US goes down, other economies follow.

It's not about protectionism.

It's about fair trade.

[OhioChick]

28. You're right. n/t

[pampango]

50. Do we not have fair trade with Canada? n/t

[HeresyLives]

4. Of course it's going to be scrapped.

Obama seeks to scrap Buy American provisions
Reuters

February 3, 2009 at 7:32 PM EST

WASHINGTON — U.S. President Barack Obama said Tuesday he did not want to send a protectionist message on world trade and would look at altering Buy American language in an economic stimulus bill coming out of Congress.

“I think it would be a mistake ... at a time when worldwide trade is declining for us to start sending a message that somehow we're just looking after ourselves and not concerned with world trade,” Mr. Obama said on the Fox television network.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090203.wobama0203/BNStory/International/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20090203.wobama0203

[RB TexLa]

5. Good, bury Cowboy Trade alongside Cowboy Diplomacy

[Oregone]

24. Why? The world responds so well to it...

Canada should pursue 'Buy Canadian' strategy: Layton
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/02/03/layton-trade.html

[Oregone]

30. BTW, they just passed their budget -- No "Buy Canadian" provision to their plan

[Kansas Wyatt]

6. And will Mr. Obama be wanting Union support for his re-election?

Union members are still pissed about Clinton crawfishing on NAFTA, and they are not in the mood to get their hands bit again.

NEWSFLASH for President Obama: This leveling off the losses, that worked under Clinton, will not work again. Working people of America are in a free fall, and Republican Lite policies will not stop the momentum.

[AngryAmish]

7. May I introduce you to Mr. Smoot and Mr. Hawley?

[SergeyDovlatov]

29. Yep. Bye bye 140 billions of exports US sells every month

[BlueJac]

8. The no "nut Sack" Dems will cave to the Repugs.............

I can't believe we voted for change!


Did we lose the election or just get suckered in?

[Historic NY]

9. If we don't BUY AMERICAN, who will???????????

Its time to re-examine our trade policies which have been one way streets.

[SergeyDovlatov]

32. Is it one way street?

Every month foreigners are buying $140,000,000,000 worth of american exports.



from http://www.census.gov/indicator/www/ustrade.html

[Uzybone]

10. Why is "buy american" a good idea?

Is this the 70s? Do people not recognize this is a world economic crisis. Its not just steel plants in Pa that are struggling. Its the entire world. Should the world freeze us out when they are building? Lots of Americans have jobs that depend on foreign demand too.

[TahitiNut]

15. "Put On Your Own Oxygen Mask Before Helping Others."

This ain't about tariffs and barriers to trade. It's about mandating where SPECIFIC funds are spent ... and that's to afford maximum assistance to those from whose pockets the funds are being taken.

It's laughable in the extreme to raise the false spectre of protectionism in a nation that has a NEGATIVE trade balance with almost every nation on earth. The US has a trade DEFICIT larger by far than any other nation ... about as large as the SUM of the trade deficits of the remaining industrialized nations.

Fucking ludicrous!

[madville]

18. Can't think of many American jobs that depend on foreign exports

Besides military hardware, aerospace, cigarettes and booze, what is made in America and exported to foreign countries in large quantities? I can't think of anything.

I used to work right next to a large port, tons of container and car carrier ships coming in, the only thing ever leaving on ships was military hardware going to Iraq and Afghanistan.

If we won't even buy American made goods, who will?

American goods these days kind of remind me of the old Motorola saying "You may find a better product but we'll guarantee you you won't pay more"

[stillcool]

20. I think we have to make American goods..

before we can buy them.

[SergeyDovlatov]

45. We make tons of great american goods ...

and foreigners are paying us $140 billion dollars every month to buy it.

http://www.census.gov/indicator/www/ustrade.html



same website has a breakdown of all exported goods by category.

[stillcool]

48. we need to make more..

so much of our food is imported, the material I buy to make quilts, clothes is all imported, the yarn I buy..it goes on and on. My husband sells electronics, and there is very little made in this country anymore.

[JANdad]

52. From your link...

The goods deficit with China decreased from $28.0 billion in October to $23.1 billion in November. Exports decreased $0.8 billion (primarily steelmaking materials) to $5.2 billion, while imports decreased $5.7 billion (primarily household goods; toys, games, and sporting goods; and apparel) to $28.3 billion.

We export RAW materials...get it?

If we have the raw materials...then we can refine it ourselves; can we not?

[TahitiNut]

25. Caterpillar is the most prominent example in other than the categories you mention.

:shrug:

Further, despite the furor, a very significant amount of our automobile industry sales are overseas.

[OhioChick]

31. Caterpillar recently built a plant in China. n/t

[SergeyDovlatov]

44. We make complicated things and sell them to foreigners

About $140,000,000,000 a month.

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/Press-Release/current_press_release/exh7.txt

Item(1) Year-to-date Year-to-date Year-to-date
2008 2007 Change

Total, Balance of Payments Basis 1,203,677 1,046,639 157,038
Net Adjustments -8,291 -12,934 4,643
Total, Census Basis 1,211,968 1,059,573 152,395

Foods, feeds, and beverages 102,721 76,278 26,443

Meat, poultry, etc. 12,451 8,929 3,522
Corn 14,003 10,245 3,758
Oilseeds, food oils 3,037 1,764 1,272
Sorghum, barley, oats 1,434 1,076 358
Dairy products and eggs 3,082 2,193 889
Other foods 7,630 6,657 973
Fish and shellfish 3,996 3,995 1
Vegetables 4,675 3,932 742
Wheat 11,029 7,607 3,421
Animal feeds, n.e.c. 5,603 4,133 1,470
Bakery products 3,645 3,151 494
Rice 2,142 1,343 800
Nonagricultural foods, etc. 1,154 1,039 116
Wine, beer, and related products 1,201 1,106 94
Alcoholic beverages, excluding wine 1,185 1,071 114
Fruits, frozen juices 6,579 5,656 923
Nuts 3,691 3,144 547
Soybeans 16,182 9,235 6,947

Industrial supplies and materials 364,068 287,631 76,437

Petroleum products, other 26,352 17,519 8,833
Chemicals-organic 31,379 28,741 2,638
Chemicals-fertilizers 10,361 5,632 4,729
Steelmaking materials 13,347 8,950 4,397
Plastic materials 29,715 26,533 3,182
Iron and steel mill products 10,820 8,094 2,726
Cotton, raw 4,937 4,249 688
Aluminum and alumina 8,057 7,260 797
Pulpwood and woodpulp 7,513 6,396 1,118
Precious metals, other 10,109 7,685 2,424
Natural gas liquids 3,120 1,728 1,392
Other industrial supplies 18,859 18,201 658
Metallurgical grade coal 5,497 2,687 2,810
Finished metal shapes 15,652 14,003 1,648
Agric. industry-unmanufactured 3,036 1,895 1,141
Newsprint 11,527 10,573 953
Nonmonetary gold 17,645 12,270 5,375
Synthetic rubber-primary 3,536 3,292 244
Agric. farming-unmanufactured 2,366 1,921 445
Iron and steel products, other 6,660 5,272 1,388
Chemicals-inorganic 7,807 6,447 1,360
Chemicals-other 21,533 18,699 2,833
Copper 5,855 4,973 882
Nonmetallic minerals 740 531 209
Manmade cloth 5,618 5,376 242
Agriculture-manufactured, other 2,041 1,756 285
Industrial rubber products 3,122 2,981 141
Shingles, molding, wallboard 3,582 3,122 460
Mineral supplies-manufactured 4,643 4,495 147
Logs and lumber 4,099 4,354 -255
Hair, waste materials 580 550 30
Cotton fiber cloth 2,582 2,616 -34
Finished textile supplies 2,256 2,267 -11
Leather and furs 885 1,053 -168
Wood supplies, manufactured 1,301 1,161 141
Crude oil 994 698 295
Hides and skins 1,957 2,000 -43
Tapes, audio and visual 472 544 -72
Nontextile floor tiles 458 423 35
Glass-plate, sheet, etc. 1,530 1,347 183
Coal and fuels, other 2,506 1,470 1,036
Tobacco, unmanufactured 1,121 1,084 37
Electric energy 1,297 864 433
Nuclear fuel materials 2,063 2,220 -157
Nonferrous metals, other 7,248 7,315 -67
Gas-natural 4,380 2,829 1,551
Fuel oil 32,915 13,557 19,358

Capital goods, except automotive 433,154 408,029 25,125

Semiconductors 47,221 45,844 1,377
Computer accessories 27,343 29,498 -2,155
Generators, accessories 11,131 9,517 1,614
Electric apparatus 28,360 28,400 -39
Drilling & oilfield equipment 13,727 11,509 2,218
Telecommunications equipment 30,135 27,569 2,566
Photo, service industry machinery 9,074 8,423 651
Industrial machines, other 35,283 34,993 290
Laboratory testing instruments 8,298 7,420 878
Computers 13,543 12,387 1,156
Agricultural machinery, equipment 7,647 5,697 1,950
Measuring, testing, control instruments 19,528 19,988 -459
Business machines and equipment 3,983 2,561 1,422
Metalworking machine tools 6,911 6,175 735
Specialized mining 1,309 955 354
Wood, glass, plastic 3,848 3,232 616
Textile, sewing machines 1,221 1,277 -56
Industrial engines 19,790 17,321 2,470
Marine engines, parts 1,335 1,176 158
Medicinal equipment 24,790 21,725 3,065
Vessels, excluding scrap 82 106 -24
Pulp and paper machinery 2,738 2,482 256
Spacecraft, excluding military 26 29 -3
Commercial vessels, other 340 264 76
Engines-civilian aircraft 20,281 17,822 2,460
Railway transportation equipment 3,106 2,698 408
Food, tobacco machinery 2,805 2,406 399
Parts-civilian aircraft 18,770 17,218 1,552
Excavating machinery 13,916 11,667 2,249
Nonfarm tractors and parts 3,120 2,719 400
Materials handling equipment 13,595 10,873 2,722
Civilian aircraft 39,896 44,080 -4,184

Automotive vehicles, parts, and engines 113,718 110,944 2,775

Consumer goods 148,987 133,300 15,687

Artwork, antiques, stamps, etc. 8,152 6,697 1,455
Other household goods 15,712 14,149 1,563
Jewelry, etc 6,609 6,346 263
Toys, games, and sporting goods 10,762 9,724 1,038
Numismatic coins 311 220 91
Records, tapes, and disks 4,912 4,557 355
Writing and art supplies 6,209 5,625 584
Pleasure boats and motors 3,204 2,898 306
Gem diamonds 14,259 11,086 3,173
Apparel,household goods-nontextile 2,038 1,782 256
Stereo equipment, etc. 2,137 2,251 -114
Furniture, household goods, etc. 3,722 3,265 458
Books, printed matter 5,319 5,104 215
Rugs 1,015 941 74
Household appliances 6,841 6,347 494
Glassware, chinaware 484 455 30
TV's, VCR's, etc. 3,457 3,500 -44
Sports apparel and gear 561 515 46
Tobacco, manufactured 793 1,075 -283
Cookware, cutlery, tools 970 913 57
Musical instruments 2,011 1,924 87
Apparel, household goods - textile 4,506 4,359 147
Nursery stock, etc. 404 389 15
Toiletries and cosmetics 7,992 6,927 1,066
Pharmaceutical preparations 36,606 32,252 4,354

Other goods 49,320 43,391 5,929

[ChromeFoundry]

40. When was the last time you decided to not feed your family...

and feed someone elses kids?
Give your paycheck to a neighbor that you have never met?


Bullshit... take care of your own, first! Then worry about the others when you are healthy enough to make a difference.

Lots of Americans have jobs that depend on foreign demand too.

...like what? - immigration lawyers?

[OhioChick]

41. Well Stated, Chrome! n/t

[SergeyDovlatov]

46. exports and imports are linked

Whatever you import, the dollar comes back as demand for export.

Currently for every dollar foreigner gets when we import stuff, he spends 72-77cents to buy our exports.

Dollar surplus of a trade deficit is spent hoarding money in reserves, buying up US government debt and investing in US stock market / plants / infrastructure.

[pampango]

51. What American jobs depend of foreign demand? Do you think that all of our exports

are produced by magic?

Better to discuss the balance between jobs gained and lost through trade, not to contend that there are no American jobs dependent on our exports.

[treestar]

54. People who make stuff that is exported abroad to foreign customers

who never came to the US? American people who make the exports? What's wrong with their jobs?

Let's have some common sense here!

What if the Canadian steel is cheaper and easier to get and allows more Americans to be hired for the infrastructure building? Or what if we use American steel but the American steel company uses machines made in some other country?

This is not the 14th century. Oh, wait, even they had international trade. The 3rd century?

[treestar]

55. This is a hard concept for some people to get

The non-US part of the world apparently never is involved in any economic activity and doesn't deserve to be. And Americans who work for companies selling to anyone else can go hang, too!

If only the Chinese thought like that.

[ogneopasno]

12. Oh, fuck that shit. Just...fuck it.

[Mari333]

13. sad as hell. nt

[w4rma]

14. This is why that Rubinite is a bad choice for any economic position. (nt)

[rockymountaindem]

38. Yet when we complained, we were told that Obama was just too smart for us to understand his picks

We saw where Summers was going to take us - more of the same.

[WhiteTara]

17. why not reframe it

not buy American, but American made. We used to export.

[tideroller52]

19. Buy American

This is a joke, right? Every other country in the world sticks it to us on trade because we are the big dog. That makes it all right. We need to level the playing field and quit letting other countries take advantage of us because we are the "good guys". It's time to take care of ourselves as long as we are not screwing anyone else. Let's just tell them, "We're not taking it anymore."

Who cares if China holds our debt? They only do because they have taken advantage of our good nature. They need us more than we need them. Look what happened when we quit buying their stuff. Their country just about shut down. Half the toy factories shut down and a bunch of the electronics factories. We should put a tariff on everything they send over here to pay for inspectors to check out all their exports to us. They have proven they can not or will not police themselves for unsafe additives to products. Are we going to pick up the tab to police them?

Every trade pact we have should be reviewed. They should contain provisions for environmental standards and human rights/labor standards among other things.

Lets build new bridges and buildings with Chinese steel. The same inferior steel that contains impurities that weaken the steel and results in inferior structural integrity. That way they will have to be rebuilt sooner leading to more jobs in construction and the funeral industry when they collapse.

Yeah, this is a rant! I'm sick of the United States rolling over to every other country. Lets get mad!

[Oregone]

23. Without fixing or scraping NAFTA, its a worthless pandering gesture.

So what if they "Buy American"? After the workers, the main drivers of the economy, get paid, you think theyll buy American? Where? Huh? That dough is going to trickle down and then trickle out to China via Walmart. Fix trade first.

[robinlynne]

27. BUllshit! (not your OP, "we are concerned with world trade." I am NOT right now.

This "world trade" has enriched a very few, empoverished the majority. And there is NO excuse for using petroleum to freight everything halfway around the world all the time.
I was shocked, watching the PBS special where all of our recyclables here in the US are loaded into containers and SHIPPED to CHina, where China makes them into new boxes to ship back the 99 cent junk we buy from CHina... What is the point of recycling at all when we use fossil fuels to deliver recyclables all the way around the world and back again?

[Raksha]

47. You're not the only one!

I am NOT concerned with world trade right now either.

Re This "world trade" has enriched a very few, empoverished the majority. And there is NO excuse for using petroleum to freight everything halfway around the world all the time.

I was shocked, watching the PBS special where all of our recyclables here in the US are loaded into containers and SHIPPED to CHina, where China makes them into new boxes to ship back the 99 cent junk we buy from CHina... What is the point of recycling at all when we use fossil fuels to deliver recyclables all the way around the world and back again?

That's absolutely outrageous! And another thing: Fish caught in American waters are frozen at sea, shipped to China to be cleaned and filleted, and then frozen again and shipped BACK here! Just how insane is THAT? I learned that from a Trader Joe's flyer, because they are very proud of the fact that they don't ship their American fish to China for processing. I was flabbergasted that anyone did!

[OhioChick]

33. This really saddens me....

As the days pass, I'm beginning to see more of the same policies that we were promised otherwise.

[Waiting For Everyman]

34. Even if Obama "caves", that doesn't mean the Senate Dems will.

Good cop, bad cop.

[robinlynne]

53. IS that a joke?

[Triana]

42. The US CoC is nothing but a corprat crowbar

used to keep the treasury doors open and to suction more money off taxpayers for their own profit.

[melm00se]

56. Do you really want to trigger a trade war?

[treestar]

57. Here's at least both sides of the subject in summary

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28945634/

From this article:

"I believe that when taxpayer dollars are used, they should support the things produced here at home," Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., author of one of the provisions, said in a statement.

Many analysts say the measures reflect the interests of small sectors over the larger economy, which could suffer from reduced trade and higher steel prices.

"The result, according to my calculations, is that the U.S. will lose more jobs than it will gain," said Gary Hufbauer, an economist with the Peterson Institute for International Economics, a Washington think tank. "We are going to poison the wells of world commerce if we do this."

The provisions are in a bill already approved by the House and a different version under consideration in the Senate. The Senate version states that none of the funds from the stimulus may be used for a project "unless all of the iron, steel and manufactured goods used in the projects are produced in the United States." The House version leaves out manufactured goods.