ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-05-09 09:27 PM
Original message |
Poll question: Is using violence to keep someone from killing an endangered animal ethical? |
|
For example, using violence against whalers. This violence would injure the person or put them in immediate danger of being hurt or killed.
|
roody
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-05-09 09:32 PM
Response to Original message |
1. Violence as in property destruction, yes. |
ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-05-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
2. Did you not read the text above my poll? |
IGotAName
(125 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-05-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
3. I suppose if you believe you can use violence to defend property, |
|
you can't really argue against this.
|
Towlie
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-05-09 09:35 PM
Response to Original message |
4. Sorry, no. It's too much like shooting abortion doctors. |
girl gone mad
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
27. Humans aren't endangered. |
|
And an embryo is legally defined as a part of a woman's body, not an individual. Technically, the woman is choosing to have part of her body removed.
There really isn't any comparison between abortion and killing protected endangered species.
|
Marrah_G
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
35. Sorry but that doesn't work. The Anti-Choice crowd will tell you it is a precious life. |
|
And something they feel very strongly about. And since you are saying it is okay to commit murder if you feel very strongly about something, then it is the same.
You are looking at things through your own narrow scope.
Who gets to decide if the person deserves the death penalty?
Do polluters get gunned down outside their houses?
How far do you let it go?
|
girl gone mad
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #35 |
49. You're actually making a pro-choice argument. |
|
Edited on Sat Feb-07-09 04:51 AM by girl gone mad
Murder in the act of self-defense is considered justifiable homicide. In many states, murder in the defense of personal property is also legal. Abortion is legal. Society determines how far you let it go. In some African preserves, poachers are shot. The slippery slope argument is intellectually lazy. Protecting endangered elephants or whales is not going to lead to the legalization of killing abortion doctors, no matter how hard you try to spin things.
|
flvegan
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-05-09 09:35 PM
Response to Original message |
5. Is using violence to keep someone from interfering with the killing of an endangered animal ethical? |
|
Better question, considering.
|
EFerrari
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-05-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message |
6. Yes and I would probably do it if I had to. The greater good |
|
for the greatest number means that animal is more valuable than the schmuck I'd have to punch out.
That's what "ethics" means, right?
|
hyphenate
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-05-09 09:42 PM
Response to Original message |
7. It completely depends on the circumstances |
|
Normally, violence should never be negated by violence, but if the one killing has no morals or conscience in such an example, gaining a more peaceable result can be justified.
I've supported animal rights issues for so long that it is not unthinkable for me to believe that saving an animal with no voice of its own from harm is not necessarily a bad thing, no matter how it is gained. If people can be such badasses that they kill without remorse of any kind, they deserve to be treated lower than the animals they kill. A good example of this is those bastards like Michael Vick or unscrupulous greyhound owners, or anyone who uses and abuses animals. Legally, I would worry about it, but if I ever saw someone hurting an animal just "because they can" I would be more than happy to show them the error of their ways.
I am not in any position to argue the point, however, and that's the only reason some of these bastards are still around that I can't get to them.
(This is not about hunting, fishing, or anything else along this line--this is my answer solely on assholes who torture, maim or kill with no remorse.)
|
ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-05-09 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
8. What if they were killing the endangered animal for food or |
|
scientific research? (Such as whaling)
|
ogneopasno
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-05-09 09:46 PM
Response to Original message |
Jack_DeLeon
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-05-09 11:29 PM
Response to Original message |
10. I'm no pacifist so I dont see why it couldnt be on the table in certain instances... |
|
Its already legal to use force up to and including deadly force to protect yourself, third parties, and property from destruction.
|
Marrah_G
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
15. Same justification the anti-choice nuts use for blowing up clinics. |
Jack_DeLeon
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
44. Yes I can can understand that... |
|
Under a certain age I dont consider an unborn fetus to be a human being. However I do understand how some people might disagree, and as such might consider using deadly force to stop those they consider "murderers."
Ultimately we humans are going to do what we believe to be "right." People disagree about many things, and sometimes people die, life goes on.
|
conturnedpro09
(118 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-05-09 11:44 PM
Response to Original message |
11. Potentially killing someone who is about to kill an endangered animal? |
|
Absolutely UNethical. A human's life deserves more value than that of an animal.
|
wuushew
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #11 |
19. Why? Many higher animals can use language and advanced cognition |
|
A chimpanzee is at least equal to a toddler or preschooler.
Given that we are in the midst of a man made mass extinction it would appear that more diplomatic means of genocide prevention are not proving robust enough.
|
conturnedpro09
(118 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sun Feb-08-09 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
80. No, a human is not "just another animal." |
|
"A chimpanzee is at least equal to a toddler or preschooler." ?!?!?!
I'm sorry, but as the father of a bright, beautiful three year old, that statement and that logic is just pure bullshit. And you don't need to be religious to believe that humans are a special species, either.
I seriously do not understand how so many fellow liberals/progressives here can feel so guilty about acknowledging that a raccoon is less significant and valuable than a human being.
Sorry folks, a skunk is not our equal. Get over it.
|
Jack_DeLeon
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #11 |
|
I certainly value the lives of the people I care about more than the lives of any random animal, other humans included as we are all animals.
However we are all individuals and what we each value is up to each of us to decide. I certainly wouldnt value the life of a stranger over say my pets, I wouldnt butcher my dogs so that starving man might eat. There are also cruel and evil people in this world that I would say would be put to better use as animal feed.
|
conturnedpro09
(118 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sun Feb-08-09 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #45 |
82. In our culture, our society, & our world, humans take precedent over other animals. |
|
Yes, in the ridiculous scenario of choosing between the life of my family's yellow lab or that of, say, someone like saddam Hussein, obviously the dog wins out.
But there is a reason that our laws don't extend to rabbits, our courts aren't open to zebras, and our police don't protect and serve monkeys. We as a species are generally superior to them. It's okay to say that, guys.
And yes, an environmentalist shooting a group of hunters ain't much better or worse than a psychotic Christian nut shooting a Planned Parenthood staffer.
That's why I voted no. Call me old fashioned..I just ain't a big lover of unneeded violence.
|
Occam Bandage
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-05-09 11:45 PM
Response to Original message |
12. No on both of your polls. |
HarukaTheTrophyWife
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 12:02 AM
Response to Original message |
13. Killing people is wrong, but that's not what the Sea Shepherd is doing and you know it |
Marrah_G
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 12:06 AM
Response to Original message |
14. That is the same justification people use for shooting doctors who are tied to abortion |
GoddessOfGuinness
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
32. But people aren't endangered |
|
Edited on Fri Feb-06-09 03:18 AM by GoddessOfGuinness
In fact, it could be reasonably argued that humans infest the earth with our abundance.
Plus, GirlGoneMad makes excellent points against this comparison in post 27.
|
Marrah_G
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #32 |
34. So murder is okay because we aren't endangered? |
|
That is what you are saying.
There are better ways to control population.
Education and opportunity are the best weapons against over population.
|
GoddessOfGuinness
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
42. You're saying it's ok to watch a species be annihilated rather than eliminate the scum |
|
(which is not endangered) that would extinguish it.
If a murderer threatened one of your children, would it be ok to murder the criminal?
|
Cid_B
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 12:12 AM
Response to Original message |
16. To those who would use violence to keep Frank the hunter... |
|
... from taking out a warblebeaked thrush....
Just rememember that the failed ESA makes no provision for vigilante justice. If you were an ethical person at the very least after you bashed Frank's skull in you should turn yourself in for murder charges.
Also if you think I've taken the extreme example (murder) then are you saying its ok to beat him but only a little?
|
Zhade
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 12:36 AM
Response to Original message |
17. Hmmm, great question. Are the animals delicious? |
anonymous171
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 12:41 AM
Response to Original message |
18. Japan thinks it's above international law, as usual. Such arrogance should be punished. |
|
Edited on Fri Feb-06-09 12:44 AM by anonymous171
|
ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
36. Don't confuse Australian law with international law. |
|
Only about six or so countries recognize Australia's Arctic claims. Japan is not one of them, the U.S. is not one of them.
|
underseasurveyor
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 12:58 AM
Response to Original message |
20. Is it ethical to use what ever means at ones disposal |
|
to interfere with and prevent trespassing and unethical, illegal and cruel behaviour levied against protected animals?
Yup!
|
Cid_B
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
|
Edited on Fri Feb-06-09 01:28 AM by Cid_B
Are you willing to bash Frank the Hunter's skull in for taking out a blueballed woodpecker?
Also are you willing to submit yourself to the authorities once youve committed your act or are you "ethically" above the law on this one?
edit: forgot the 2nd part
|
underseasurveyor
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #21 |
22. Am I willing to interfere with and try and prevent Frank from killing said bird(s) |
|
You bet I am. Now if Frank further escalates the situation which leaves me in the position to have defend myself? Yup, you bet I will. AND if Franks escalation of his own unlawful behaviour causes injury or death to himself? Well I guess that's ol Franks problem now isn't it.
|
Cid_B
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #22 |
|
Are you willing to bash Frank's skull if he poses no threat to you but is in the act of preparing to take out the woodpecker? Also would you submit yourself to the authorities after?
|
underseasurveyor
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #23 |
24. Why do you automatically assume that the first thing to do is bash in a skull? |
|
And you imagine me to be the extremist:rofl:
|
Cid_B
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #24 |
|
"Is it ethical to use what ever means at ones disposal to interfere with and prevent trespassing and unethical, illegal and cruel behaviour levied against protected animals?
Yup!" _______________________________
You have stated that you are willing to do "something". What level of violence or in your words "what ever means at your disposal" are you prepared to use if he poses no threat to you and only the woodpecker?
And for the third time will you submit yourself to the authorities?
|
underseasurveyor
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #28 |
30. If 'Frank' poses no threat to me |
|
Edited on Fri Feb-06-09 03:03 AM by underseasurveyor
I'd turn him into the authorities myself. At least there's a greater chance of charging, convicting and imposing fines on ol Frankie. Perhaps even taking away his right to hunt and/or possess firearms, temporarily or permanently.
The difference here is that no-fucking-body in the international community is doing shit to stop the Japanese whalers and their felonious murder of protected marine mammals. (on edit to add) Except the awesome and amazing people of Sea Shepherd Society.
|
girl gone mad
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 02:48 AM
Response to Original message |
25. They shoot poachers in Africa. |
|
Sometimes it's the only way to stop people from breaking the law.
|
underseasurveyor
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
26. Good one. That's right they do. |
ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
38. Do you support the Death Penalty? |
underseasurveyor
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
43. Only for those that needlessly and illegally slaughter marine mammals |
Jack_DeLeon
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #38 |
|
Edited on Sat Feb-07-09 02:04 AM by Jack_DeLeon
viva Tejas.
|
ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
37. Do you support the Death Penalty? |
girl gone mad
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #37 |
47. This is an act of self-defense. |
ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #47 |
57. What if the person was defending an endangered insect, instead of a whale? |
|
How much force would you use against a person to defend an endangered insect?
|
-..__...
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
53. They'll shoot ANYONE in Africa... |
|
poacher or not.
Besides... poachers have the ability to shoot first (or return fire).
|
Hippo_Tron
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
73. Some of them are probably poaching out of desperation though |
readmoreoften
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 02:53 AM
Response to Original message |
29. Endangered species? Like the Employed American Working Class? |
|
Edited on Fri Feb-06-09 02:53 AM by readmoreoften
All for it.
Wait. You're talking about whales.
|
marimour
(696 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 03:05 AM
Response to Original message |
31. no. unless you're law enforcement. |
G_j
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 03:25 AM
Response to Original message |
ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
40. I would normally use an "other" option, but I wanted to contrast this poll |
LSdemocrat
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 01:13 PM
Response to Original message |
39. I would oppose the use of lethal force in such a situation |
ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Feb-06-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
1
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 04:45 AM
Response to Original message |
48. animals = cool. people? not so much... |
|
i always vote for animals.
people suck.
|
tkmorris
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 04:58 AM
Response to Original message |
|
Oversimplifying complex issues since 2001.
|
ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #50 |
58. This issue is simple, you either act violently, or you don't. |
|
You either intentionally hurt someone, or you don't.
|
tkmorris
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sun Feb-08-09 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #58 |
|
You see someone about to shoot a manatee. You give them a shove, throwing off their aim, then read them the riot act, thus allowing the manatee to escape. You DID act violently, but with a measured violence.
You see someone about to shoot a manatee. You blow up their boat with a handy grenade you are carrying because it moves the plot forward, killing the manatee assassin and his whole family. You have acted violently, but without any restraint.
Both of these accomplish the purpose, but one is far overboard while the other is within reason. Both employ violence of a sort, but one employs no more than necessary. Even if in the first instance you have to go further, say twisting the gun from their hands, injuring their wrist in the process, you have done what was necessary but no more.
Your posts are inane, all of them.
|
ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sun Feb-08-09 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #77 |
85. My OP defined violence for the porpose of this poll. |
|
According to the text in OP, your first scenario would not be considered violence.
Your posts are inane, all of them.
Why make it personal?
|
LeftishBrit
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 06:45 AM
Response to Original message |
51. No; they should be subject to strict legal penalties, but not violence |
timtom
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 08:41 AM
Response to Original message |
52. No more or less than using violence |
|
to prevent abortion clinics from functioning is ethical.
|
TexasObserver
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 10:03 AM
Response to Original message |
closeupready
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 10:11 AM
Response to Original message |
55. Not sure. Can see arguments either way. |
Maestro
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 10:22 AM
Response to Original message |
|
But I certainly support obstructing the killing of endangered animals, but not with the specific intent to kill he who is trying to kill the endangered species.
|
NaturalHigh
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 01:26 PM
Response to Original message |
59. I can't work up much sympathy for whalers. |
|
There is plenty of evidence that whales are extremely intelligent animals.
|
ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #59 |
61. Pigs are supposed to be smarter than dogs, I was thinking |
|
Edited on Sat Feb-07-09 01:32 PM by ZombieHorde
about that when I was eating a ceasar salad wrap with bacon last night.
eta: Does higher intelligence increase the importance of life?
|
NaturalHigh
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #61 |
64. "Does higher intelligence increase the importance of life?" |
|
I don't have a good answer to that one, to be honest, at least not one that I could fit into a concise response. I do think that higher intelligence implies sentience of sme sort.
|
JonLP24
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 01:27 PM
Response to Original message |
60. No. Call the appropriate authorities and let them handle the situation |
|
Don't get involved in something that you can potentially get in serious trouble for.
|
ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #60 |
62. What if there is no real law against it, such as arctic whaling? |
|
A few countries have set laws for the arctic, but most other countries do not recognize them.
|
JonLP24
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #62 |
72. You're right. Same goes for Great White Sharks (I believe) |
|
Edited on Sat Feb-07-09 02:36 PM by JonLP24
Some species of shark I know for sure are endagered but it is hard to regulate at sea because really it doesn't cover any jurisdiction. I was thinking of what I would do on american soil when I was writing my post. That certainly affects things. It certainly is complex, for example I don't want to kill the guy because for some reason he may be raised to believe such a thing is ok in his mind. I know dealing with someone like a simple "No, you can't do that." will work. I'm going to have to take some time. I may even chicken out and not do anything in the possibility I might get killed being honest here. If it is ethical to kill someone to protect the animal? Who knows. My personal opinion I think killing endagered species or animals for body parts they can make money off of and leaving the rest of the animal finless, tuskless, etc. It certainly is complex.
|
Sandrine for you
(635 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message |
63. In some african country, they use violence to stop the killing of |
|
elephant. They dont have choice.
|
ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #63 |
65. Of course they have a choice. |
Sandrine for you
(635 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #65 |
66. the choice to let elephant simply disappear. Here, elephant are |
|
common property. Some try to steal that common property, so we have to use state violence to make them complied to law. In that same way a police man have to used control violence to stop a criminal.
|
ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #66 |
67. I don't consider the U.S. to be ethical in the area of law enforcement. |
|
Couldn't people use tranquilizers against the poachers?
|
Sandrine for you
(635 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #67 |
69. Yeah they shoot you with machine-gun , and you repost with dart... |
|
It's a war...not a game.
You don't think it's ethical to use control violence to enforce law when necessary ?
|
ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #69 |
70. "You don't think it's ethical to use control violence to enforce law when necessary ?" |
|
Depends on the law. Use violence to stop rapers or murders, do not use violence to stop litter bugs or stoners. Of course, killing elephants is not rape or marijuana, its somewhere in between.
What if we replaced endangered elephant with endangered beetle, would you support killing the poachers?
|
Sandrine for you
(635 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #70 |
71. What if we replaced endangered elephant with endangered beetle, would you support killing the poache |
|
Yep depend on the law in question. Here, about beetle, maybe not killing, but physical restraint, and then if he oppose the arrestation, use of violence....
|
Hippo_Tron
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sun Feb-08-09 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #70 |
83. At some point it becomes a danger to the law enfrocement as well |
|
Edited on Sun Feb-08-09 02:54 AM by Hippo_Tron
I think that law enforcement has a right to protect endangered species with guns. If somebody else brings guns into the vicinity of the protected area they are a threat to the law enforcement. Does that mean they should be shot on sight? No, probably not. But if they resist law enforcement and use a weapon to do so then law enforcement has no choice but to respond using their weapons.
BTW, the national guard were authorized to shoot looters on sight in New Orleans after Katrina. Do you disagree with that?
|
vanderBeth
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 01:54 PM
Response to Original message |
68. Well, I suppose if it is, it is because that person is deemed less valuable than the animals life |
|
it is killing. I might have a problem with saying that, so maybe if they are killing a bunch of animals, or like you said, an endangered animal. I guess endangered animals are deemed as valuable to a person, but what about a dog? What if they are going to kill 5 dogs? (5 dogs=1 person?) Or maybe because they are the type of persons who like killing animals for fun, or endangered, or a bunch, they are not a valued part of our species. So it isn't a species that has so much value, it is an individual?
What if that person is really "ignorant"? If someone is a small time whaler who is poor and this is all they know and they see nothing wrong in it. I guess that is somewhat like the pro-choicer that see it fine to attack/kill abortion doctors.
|
Hippo_Tron
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 05:36 PM
Response to Original message |
74. I do not support vigilante justice |
CLG_News
(387 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 05:40 PM
Response to Original message |
|
Sincerely, an endangered polar bear
|
ZombieHorde
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat Feb-07-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #75 |
76. Thanks for the rec., but how can a bear type with such large paws? |
crimsonblue
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sun Feb-08-09 02:22 AM
Response to Original message |
78. no. It's hypocritical. |
CreekDog
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sun Feb-08-09 02:30 AM
Response to Original message |
79. I need more information before I can justify any killing of a human being |
|
so I voted no in your poll.
|
BlooInBloo
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sun Feb-08-09 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #79 |
81. Most DUers don't - just say the word "animal" and they're happy to kill people. |
Fire_Medic_Dave
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sun Feb-08-09 03:01 AM
Original message |
I'd kill someone hurting one of my dogs. |
Fire_Medic_Dave
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sun Feb-08-09 03:01 AM
Response to Original message |
84. I'd kill someone hurting one of my dogs. |
Vektor
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sun Feb-08-09 06:22 AM
Response to Original message |
86. I'd happily use violence to keep someone from killing any animal, endangered or not. |
|
Edited on Sun Feb-08-09 06:22 AM by Vektor
If the person is hunting legally, mind you, then no, although I don't wish to watch or participate. If they are poaching, abusing, torturing, or harming an animal out of cruelty, etc. it's ON.
Innocents need defending, and whether the perp is kicking a dog or a child, I'd step in an lay the smack down, post haste.
|
quaker bill
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sun Feb-08-09 07:13 AM
Response to Original message |
87. Violence is not ethical |
|
regardless of purpose. It may on very rare occasion be required, but it is never ethical, and always regrettable.
|
DU
AdBot (1000+ posts) |
Wed Apr 24th 2024, 07:24 PM
Response to Original message |