Do you support the death penalty?

[ZombieHorde]

[Horse with no Name]

1. No.

Why?

[ZombieHorde]

5. Here is why...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4991472

I want to see how the numbers match up.

[Horse with no Name]

10. There is a difference in the use of the death penalty

and the use of deadly force.

[ZombieHorde]

12. One has a trial.

[JonLP24]

137. How do you feel about a human using deadly force to protect a human?

And do you feel that is the equivalence of the death penalty?

[ZombieHorde]

139. "human using deadly force to protect a human"

I am cool with it.

And do you feel that is the equivalence of the death penalty?

Only if the phrase 'death penalty' is being used in a more broad sense than usual.

Human life > non-human/non-mosquito life > mosquito life.

[JonLP24]

142. I don't understand

What about the death penalty as it currently stands?

I was trying to figure out when you said to another poster "One has a trial" it seemed you equated the death penalty with protecting another animal from an attacker. I was wondering if you equated the death penalty with protecting a human. A human is an animal when you really think about it. From what I believe you're saying in your last sentence is smaller the brain the less they matter.

[ZombieHorde]

144. I value humans more than non-humans, and I don't like mosquitos.

[JonLP24]

148. Ok so what is your point about equating the death penalty to

saving an animal's life? A precursor to murder is often begins with killing an animal. But when it comes to value it doesn't come to personal value? Me, I care about my mom more then I care about a random animal and I value all 3 of my pets more then I value you. It's not personal because I don't know you. I'm sure the same is for you, wouldn't you value say a dog you know more the Gary Ridgway, involved in more then 18 prostitute killings, and later had sex with the bodies later?

We're all apart of the eco-system which I'm cool with, it just seems humans are the only ones (inappropriate word) it up. Though it doesn't matter who is ahead in the value system, a big rock from space can kill us all.

[ZombieHorde]

151. The death penalty vs. killing for defense.

If a person believes a non-human animal's life is of less value than a humans life, then the killing of the human animal killer seems more like an execution rather than an act of defense.

If a person believes a non-human animal's life is of equal or greater value than a human's life, than the killing of the human animal killer seems more like an act of defense rather than an execution.

This is similar to the debate on whether a human fetus' value is equal to a human who is not a fetus.

If a fetus is equal in value to a human non-fetus, then killing abortion doctors is an act of defense.

If a fetus is not equal in value to a human non-fetus, then killing abortion doctors is an execution (assassination, murder, whatever word you enjoy).

[JonLP24]

154. I also heard Elisabeth Hasselbeck

Ask if Ashley Judd supports abortion because she ran an ad attacking Palin the shooting wolves from an airplane thing. Arguing she likely supports animal life over a fetus.

Same argument you're making. It's not really a debate, the fetus is apart of the woman's body so it is her choice on what she wants to do with it. It is not the same as killing an abortion doctor.

Also I won't answer to what you believe, my belief is a ranking value system and it is in order plants, water(without those two things none of us would be here), me, family, friends, pets, ....... it doesn't go every human on earth then my pets. I value the life of a defenseless animal over the human killing for fur coats, ivory, shark fins, etc. I don't have a problem with hunting or fishing.

[ZombieHorde]

156. "the fetus is apart of the woman's body so it is her choice"

You and I view fetuses in this way, but some people add separate human value to the fetus. This value can be added to anything, fetuses, whales, a sports car, your pet dog, cows...

I don't know who Hasselbeck or Judd is, although the name, Ashley Judd, sounds familiar.

[JonLP24]

157. Yes everyone has their own values and it's not the same as others

For example, WWF, PETA, etc rank animal life pretty high while hunters may not. Some humans don't value other humans at all as well. You mention sports car I thought we were talking about life. I'm not going to use lethal force to save a sports car so it is nowhere near on my list.

[11 Bravo]

163. "I don't know who Hasselbeck ... is." Damn, do I envy you!

I would sacrifice a non-essential body part to have never heard of that insipid twit.

[ulysses]

2. no.

[EFerrari]

3. No.

[wuushew]

4. No

it is one of the main reasons the South sucks

[Muttocracy]

6. I see where these 2 polls are going to collide..nt

[ZombieHorde]

15. Yes, they will collide. DU is fun.

[Muttocracy]

21. I'll admit you made me stop and think hard. nt

[ZombieHorde]

23. That is one of the best complements I have ever received. Thank you. nt

[Muttocracy]

27. You're welcome. I have a hard time with the death penalty.

I don't trust the government to implement it (innocents get killed), and I don't like killing to counter crime. That makes me anti-death penalty overall.

But then there are horrid cases where I don't think a person can be rehabilitated and I just don't want them alive (serial killers, repeat rapists, violence against children, etc.)

Then there's the cost issue. I'm not sure if it's more expensive for the security, appeals, and killing of people on death row, or housing them in prison for the rest of their lives.

So I'm anti-death penalty overall. But killing endangered species is a crime of gigantic moral proportions for me. If someone is killed/injured in the process of committing a crime (e.g., shot by police, or your other poll scenario) I probably don't have as much sympathy as I should.

[JonLP24]

138. Don't forget the racial disproportion in this country

As far as who we enforce the penalty on.

[lumberjack_jeff]

Collide? You mean would we approve if we were to discover that the inmate smokes? n/t

[LakeSamish706]

7. I don't think any human has the right to take another human life, other than....

personal self defense in the extreme.

[Bonn1997]

111. Agreed, and in the rare justifiable wars

[liberalmuse]

8. For war criminals? Yes.

I'd love to see Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Feith hung at the Haige. I'd even do up some popcorn, and that is something that has always appalled me about US hangings. How can this possibly be construed as an occasion for celebration? I have to say that in this case and this case alone, it would be like watching the Nazi's being brought to justice. You don't slaughter and displace millions of Iraquis without some of us wanting to see your murdering asses brought to extreme justice.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

11. Yes people we absolutely know are murders should be dealt with. ...n/t

[Hugabear]

57. How do you ever "absolutely know"?

What burden of proof would you require that doesn't already exist to obtain a conviction? DNA evidence can be planted, contaminated, or just plain inconclusive. Video and photo evidence can be doctored. Confessions don't really mean very much.

How can you ever be 100% sure that you're not putting an innocent person to death? Even if you're 99.99999% sure of a person's guilt, what would be so wrong with just incarcerating them for the rest of their life?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

76. What about people like the BTK killer? Don't they also deserve it.

[JonLP24]

118. If I had the option

Life in prisonment with no possibility of parole or death penalty. I choose death penalty, rather die then spend the rest of my miserable life in a small cell with other crazy lunatics.

[TWiley]

164. Well Dave, get your gun and shoot him then

You are always itching for a reason to murder someone, so go do it already

[Ian David]

9. Only for War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity. n/t

[panader0]

13. No, but I reject the idea that the taxpayer must spend 50K a year

to keep some scumbag in jail for life. That's way more than I make. Reform the penal system and make the prisoners earn their keep. Agriculture, manufacturing, whatever. There have been some cases where I thought the guy was unfit to live, but if he or she can pay their own way, then OK.

[Solly Mack]

14. Nope

[baldguy]

16. A govt of the people, by the people & for the people shouldn't be in the business of killing them.

[MrSlayer]

17. Indeed.

I think it's use should be expanded.

[ulysses]

18. to whom?

Do tell. This'll be fun.

[Sebastian Doyle]

20. War criminals, pedophiles, and "defense" contractors

That would be a good start.

[ulysses]

26. to what purpose other than revenge?

?

[martymar64]

38. Is another purpose needed?

Sometimes revenge is exactly what is needed. Iused to be anti DP, but in light of the atrocities done in our names, I'm all in favor of executing Rethugs and a few CEOs and Rush and Hannity. Preferably by guillotine.

[ulysses]

39. if you're interested in justice, yes.

Otherwise, just bring back lynch mobs.

[martymar64]

52. Well then, what IS justice?

How is letting evil monsters live long lives with no repercussions for their crimes justice? They get to live in free lodgings with three squares a day in mockery of the victims and their families for decades. Do you call that justice? We don't need lynch mobs but we do need swift and certain consequences for especially heinous crimes.
I was raped as a child at the age of 8, and if I could find the scumbag that stole my childhood forever and fucked up my psyche to the point that I can't even hold relationships, I would kill him without a second thought or regret. That would be justice.

Now, you go ahead and tell me that I should just forgive this scumbag and forget about being raped as a child and "move on" and let bygones be bygones. Go ahead, I dare you.

[ulysses]

55. I call imprisonment justice, yes.

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences, and I can't say that I wouldn't feel as you do were I in the same boat. But civil society has no business carrying out the wishes of the victims of crime simply because they are the wishes of the victims of crime.

And where do you draw the line? Thieves regularly spend their days "in mockery" of their victims. Should we kill them?

[martymar64]

65. Well, I have gotten no justice for what was done to me and never will.

And that tears at me every single waking moment of my life and it will until the day I die. To me, justice does not exist at all. The concept itself is a cruel joke perpetrated on all of us that were too young or too weak to defend ourselves. Most people will never understand the depths of despair I experience from this, knowing that I will never experience an ounce of happiness or peace.

Where is my justice?

[Hugabear]

60. You're confusing vengeance with justice

Sorry about your experiences, I've had some pretty shitty things happen to me in the past as well. But justice isn't just about "eye for an eye", it's making sure that society is safe from criminals.

As for your statement of "no repercussions", I'd say that a lifetime of being deprived of freedom is a pretty severe repercussion. If you've never been locked up, then you have no idea what it's like on the inside. Do you think that people serving time in prison enjoy their time? Knowing that you can never go anywhere you want, whenever you want. Many of these people will never even experience something so simple as walking on soft grass again. Never knowing if today will be the day that somebody buries a shank in your back simply because you looked at them the wrong way a few weeks ago?

[martymar64]

66. My whole life is a prison, a veritable Alcatraz

Some days it takes all the effort I can muster just to keep myself from jumping in front of a bus or eating a bullet. I can never be made whole. Because of this, I will never experience love or intimacy or be able to trust anyone. It's turned me into a permanent stranger in this world. Maybe I'd have been better off if he'd just killed me outright.

I guess justice doesn't apply to me.

[Hugabear]

67. So very sorry to hear that

Have you tried getting professional counseling? Not trying to be flippant, but perhaps it could help. I've seen firsthand how what you're going through can affect someone.

But back to the point, what you're seeking would be considered a classic case of vengeance. There's absolutely nothing wrong with feeling that way, it's perfectly natural. But that's also why we need to have an impartial justice system.

[martymar64]

68. I understand what you're saying, but . . .

I shouldn't have even gotten started in this conversation, I'm just getting more and more depressed.
I've tried therapy and medication and nothing's helped. All I want is for this pain to end and I don't see that happening short of a final solution.
I'm sorry for putting this on you, I won't waste your time with my shit. But thank you for at least listening.

[ulysses]

62. re: your edit.

Now, you go ahead and tell me that I should just forgive this scumbag and forget about being raped as a child and "move on" and let bygones be bygones. Go ahead, I dare you.

I have no need to do that and won't. Wouldn't. I'm not trying to tell you how to deal with what happened to you. I'm saying that the state has no business killing its citizens, no matter how heinous their crime.

[Rabrrrrrr]

70. Revenge is the least moral reason of all.

[JonLP24]

121. I definately do not like those guys

But DP for Hannity and Rush is incredibly extreme.

[Sebastian Doyle]

40. There are some people who have deliberately made themselves into monsters beyond redemption.

Of course then you have the additional reality that most of the people who truly deserve to be in prison are not.... Like most of the kiddie diddling Catholic priests, the Bush Crime Family, Erik Prince, all the Wall Street criminals, etc.

At the very least, we should let the pot dealers and petty thieves out of prison to make room for them.

[ulysses]

41. I would suggest that you watch too many movies.

deliberately made themselves into monsters beyond redemption

Fucking hell. What universe do you live in?

[Sebastian Doyle]

53. Fine. Let's turn all the serial killers and pedophiles loose.

They all learned their lessons, and they'll be shiny happy people and live productive lives now.

:sarcasm:

[ulysses]

56. kindly point out to me where I've suggested turning them loose.

?

[MrSlayer]

29. I would include violent rapists and child rapists. : graphic pics:

People who do shit like this.







And these are the more pleasant ones. The ones with kids in them would make everyone throw up so I did not include any. You'll never convince me that we shouldn't kill scum who would commit such heinous acts. I would happily kill these people myself and never lose a wink of sleep.

[ulysses]

35. please note that my opposition to the DP is not out of ignorance

of what violent crime looks like. Photos such as these do nothing except inflame emotion, a poor environment for justice. Please think.

[MrSlayer]

47. I am thinking.

And I'm thinking that people who do these things need to be killed. There is no practical use for these "people". If you do things so vile that you cannot ever be let back into society you should just be killed. It saves time, space and money. To me that would be justice. Giving these scumbags three hots and a cot for life or giving them that for a few years in PC and letting them out to do it again is not justice. As one would put down a rabid dog so should violent rapists and murderers be.

[ulysses]

50. fair enough.

I find your idea of justice undeserving in a democratic society, but you be you.

[MrSlayer]

51. I don't see why living in a democratic society would make a difference here.

Why does living in a democratic society mean you have to keep alive parasites that have no value whatsoever in keeping that society healthy and thriving? You trim the dead leaves and the whole plant is better for it. Rapists, murderers and pedophiles serve no positive purpose in any society be it democratic, monarchic, totalitarian or whatever.

[ulysses]

58. I'm sure you don't.

You seem to have a thoroughly crude understanding of the idea of justice (kill 'em all!) so I'm not at all surprised that you don't make this connection either.

[MrSlayer]

64. Well help a brother out then.

Why does it matter? Acting as if having a certain form of government makes it obvious that we shouldn't kill murdering, raping slime without explaining why does not help one bit. It isn't obvious as you seem to think. What connection between the two am I missing? Why can't capital punishment and democratic society co-exist?

My guess is that if you took it to the people and let them vote democratically on it, the DP would be in effect nationally.

[MajorChode]

119. A constitutional democracy doesn't always mean the majority rules

There is such a thing as the tyranny of the majority, which the Constitution protects against.

There's all sorts of reasons why the DP is incompatible with democracy. For one thing, it will never be applied equally among race, religion, or gender. So there is more injustice than justice with the DP. But there are far more reasons against it other than that one. It doesn't benefit society, and there's not even any real value to the victims.

There's no cost benefit to it. There's no justice benefit to it. There's no deterrent effect to it. In reality, the argument FOR the death penalty is an appeal to emotion, which is a logical fallacy.

[TahitiNut]

54. It's interesting that the two most oft-stated reasons to be in favor of the death penalty ...

... reduce ACTUAL guilt vs. innocence to a near irrelevancy.

(1) Deterrence -- If, in putting a person to death, there is some deterrent influence on another person contemplating a heinous crime (try to imagine such a scenario) then it's not really all that important that the person put to death ACTUALLY committed the crime. It's only important that the claim is made and the punishment connected to the crime. I have some difficulty, however, contemplating the degree to which there are people who are both (a) contemplating such a crime and (b) materially influenced by the electrocution, hanging, or other execution of another person ... other than to conclude it's OK since the 'authorities' do it.

(2) Revenge -- Again, history is rife with scapegoats and whipping boys ... literally and figuratively. It seems clear that the sublimation of reactive anger isn't all that concerned with guilt or innocence but merely with the acceptable social designation of a target for their anger.

It seems then that we should not be surprised at the accomplishments of the Innocence Project -- and not surprised if many people have been put to death wrongly.

Pitiful.

[Hippo_Tron]

153. It's cheaper to house them in prison than to kill them

The death penalty is extremely expensive because of the costs associated with appeals and such. And if you want a system where they don't bother with all of that, you might look at China as an example.

[ZombieHorde]

19. How would you like the DP to be expanded? nt

[Dukkha]

37. WWLJD?

I think Lemmy Jesus would turn the other cheek

[MrSlayer]

48. Lemmy Jesus would tear the heads off these people and use them for kickballs.

And then write a killer concept album about it.

[Rabrrrrrr]

69. I'd like to see it expanded to litterers, gum chewers, American Idol watchers, and emos.

[JVS]

132. Kill the fucking Emos. Watching American Idol is ok as long as they're still doing auditions.

Once they're in Hollywood, DP time.

[RagAss]

22. For criminals who steal my pension...YES !

[angrycarpenter]

24. Not in it's present form.

There are people who deserve the harshest possible penalty for the terrible things they do but as long as there is even the slightest possibility of innocence the death penalty should never be invoked. Too many people have ended up on death row simply because they fit the description (I'm talking to you Texas) and the fact that so many have been found innocent after the fact means that the present system is in fact state sponsored murder. Every time I have hear some conservative say "They were found guilty, so they are guilty" it pisses me off to no end. A murderer goes free to murder again, an innocent man pays for it and Mr. law and order seems to think that justice has been done.

[rateyes]

25. Only for Republicans.

[aikoaiko]

28. Yes. It needs to remain an option

An option for the most horrendous crimes where the identity of the actor is certain and there are no reasonable mitigating circumstance.

Indeed, I think the death penalty has been applied to liberally and should be used less often.

[frogcycle]

30. yep! sqush 'em like bugs, I say

damned varmints.

[DevonRex]

31. Absolutely not. Never. Ever. No way. nt

[dysfunctional press]

32. of course not.

life in solitary would be WAY more cruel for those fuckwads.

[tekisui]

33. Not only no, but Hell No.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

34. No, regardless of the circumstances.

[flvegan]

36. No. Not under any circumstance.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

42. Never

There is way too much incompetence, corruption and prejudice in the justice system to give it that sort of power.

I am fascinated by the fact that people who deem the government to be completely incompetent in all matters suddenly find it infalible in the investigation of capital murders.

[stillcool]

43. No. Although sometimes I think...

it might be necessary, considering who we are as a society. We love to send people to prison..even kids. We have more people incarcerated than any other country on the planet. Seeing as how our society is only going to get worse, more crime, more rage, more violence, maybe we should start killing them off.

[TripleKatPad]

44. No

I tried writing my reasons, kept rewriting and deleting and finally decided it doesn't matter what my reasons are. They won't change your mind if you believe otherwise. So, my answer is No.

[ZombieHorde]

49. I did support the DP, but now that I have read your post, I do not.

(just being silly)

[4lbs]

45. I don't support the death penalty because of the fact that right now, we can't be 100% sure that the

person being executed is absolutely guilty.

Think of all the people that have been released over the past decade or so when DNA evidence helped overturn their convictions based on shaky eyewitness testimony, or possible police or prosecutorial misconduct.

Now, apply that to those that were sentenced to die for their crimes that may have been actually innocent, but were set up. I truly do believe that innocent people were executed by the state.

So, until we can guarantee that a person who gets the death penalty is 100% without-a-doubt guilty, I don't want it applied.

[truebrit71]

46. Other.

For the cases of serial killers and/or child killers I will happily pull the switch...for all others not so much...

[SidDithers]

104. So, that's a yes, then...nt

Sid

[corruptmewithpower]

59. I trust the courts about as far as I can throw them.

The criminal justice system is deeply and pervasively flawed. The authoritys just want to make busts and make them stick. Whether or not the warm body they have locked up is really the guilty party is of lesser concern.

[ismnotwasm]

61. No n/t

[sam sarrha]

63. there's no Scientific PROOF that death is a "penalty", but it is a Blood Sacrifice when Politicians

promise to kill prisoners in custody if they are elected.

please.., all replies first consider the following definitions, and avoid them when responding, and no replies based on based on religious dogma/beliefs are not allowed, due to the separation of church and state when killing people involving an imperfect judicial system is involved.

con·jec·ture (kn-jkchr) http://www.thefreedictionary.com/conjecture
1. Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork.
2. A statement, opinion, or conclusion based on guesswork: The commentators made various conjectures about the outcome of the next election.
v. con·jec·tured, con·jec·tur·ing, con·jec·tures

opin·ion http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/opinion
1 a: a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b: approval , esteem
2 a: belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b: a generally held view

if you should find proof that Death is a penalty, you need to leave a link..

thank you

[D23MIURG23]

77. It is scientifically proven that corpses commit no further atrocities.

In my view that is the only valid reason to support executions.

It would be a lot easier to support the death penalty if our judicial system was perfect.

[Bluerthanblue]

83. that argument would also work

in favor of the extermination of the human species.

And, if our judicial system was perfect, we'd probably have much less need to even consider "the death penalty".

[D23MIURG23]

88. No it wouldn't.

You would have to set the bar absurdly low for what constitutes an atrocity to argue that every human being has committed one.

[Bluerthanblue]

108. I didn't say every human being has

committed an atrocity-

But every last one of us has that potential within us, and if you don't believe that, you are fooling yourself.

Knowingly, willfully, calculatingly, INTENTIONALLY ending another human being's life, is in itself an atrocity. (IMO) and when our society gives its approval to that- we are all indirectly a party to the deed.

No more human race- no more death penalty, no more war, no more industrial pollution, no more tinkering with the eco-system etc. We aren't the only species, but we sure act as if we were. Better to examine our actions, and behave in ways that aren't as ego-centric. For the good of all people, and all the earth (imo)

:hi:

peace~

[sam sarrha]

110. .. i REQUIRED A >LINK> TO ALL STATEMENTS.. to specifically prevent cynical

ignorant mentally deficient dogma from stinking up the place. where is the link proving all humans are evil.. and i said very politely before don't bring a fuck'n bible in here.. it is bull shit about a collection of misconceptions made by some illiterate Bronze age goat herders.

your dogmatic rancid crap about all people being inherently evil passed the smell test for stupidity in its worst form, religion

in Texas at least 20-25% of all people executed in TX are innocent, there IS NO APPEAL.. IF A JUDGE ALLOWS AN APPEAL OR NEW EVIDENCE INTO ANY CASE THEY LOSE THEIR $150,000 A YEAR JOB AND ARE REPLACED BY SOMEONE WHO WONT AND ALL JUDGES KNOW THIS.

Illinois stopped their executions when a review showed 13% of all executed prisoners were innocient... most are convicted on "eye witness" accounts.. the stats are so bad on that being flawed it shouldn't be allowed.

there is some thing seriously wrong with your thinking... i hope you fix it before you have children..

thanks for ruining a good discussion

[D23MIURG23]

115. First of all there is no need for such hostility.

Second of all I think you are seriously misunderstanding bluerthanblue's points (unless this was really aimed at me, in which case you are still jumping to some conclusions). I think he is basically arguing for compassion since all of us are capable of doing terrible things.

No need to conclude that this discussion is ruined yet.

:hi:

[sam sarrha]

125. "ALL" ...is terminally conclusive, and dogmatic.. and ends the discussion.. can only be based on

religion or cynicism as you neglected to provide any facts for your Posit.. few people want to play in that sandbox. i am not hostile i am literal, you broke the conditions to post.

my posit is that people like you are the problem, you operate on Apriori logic to justify murder of innocent people, and accept that as collateral damage.

i posit there is no proof death is a penalty.. what did you say that related to that..?? absolutely NOTHING. just bazaar rationalization to support a system whose only purpose is to elect ReThuglicans who promise a blood sacrifice if elected.. because the Death Penalty does not prevent any crime, it increases the murder rate because witness's are killed to prevent getting the death penalty.

i asked you to think and you kneejerked.. do you understand that.?, it is part of evolving, that is why the Right Wingnuts oppose Evolution.

[D23MIURG23]

162. I'm not required to obey your conditions to post a response to you.

As a matter of fact I'm not quite sure why I bothered to respond to you in the first place, but I suspect it was because of how absurd the proposition "provide scientific evidence that death is actually a penalty" was. All sophistry notwithstanding I think its pretty clear that people fear death. Forgive me if I don't go digging for a link to go prove that to you; it seems like a waste of my time. But it also misses the point that there is a utility to execution that there isn't for other punishments that people fear. Death and prison both remove someone's agency; death more finally and completely than prison.

Wingnuts oppose evolution because it threatens a dogma that they like. Thinking is not part of evolution of our species, which is driven by reproduction and natural selection.

[D23MIURG23]

114. I understand what you are saying, but I don't think rehabilitation is always possible...

and prisons can be porous. Ted Bundy was originally given a life sentence for his serial murders, but he managed to escape, and he literally beat half of a sorority to death before they caught him again. I don't consider it an atrocity that they calculatingly decided to end his life after that.

I'm basically a pragmatist. I think society should be treating crime as a malady, and doing whatever is most effective at reducing it. In most cases this would mean a shift in focus from punitive action toward rehabilitation. I think most criminals are criminals because they have limited financial/social means, and potentially some form of mental illness. Such criminals can be assisted, and guided to a better path.

This won't work with people who are sexually sadistic pathological liars or power hungry war criminals though. There are particular types of criminals that are likely to be incorrigible, and I think these need to be treated as a separate case and kept out of society as much as possible. Perhaps prison is adequate for this type of person, I'm not a diehard proponent of execution; but I'm also not going to consider them a sacred and necessary part of humanity.

[Rabrrrrrr]

71. Not at all. It's a childish thing, unfit for a (supposed) evolved and civilized species.

[MedleyMisty]

72. Killing people to show that killing is wrong

makes no sense and makes killers of us all.

[D23MIURG23]

73. Ambivalent.

I do think there are some cases where the death penalty is the best option. That having been said, the way in which the death penalty is prescribed in courts is unfair and often racist, and every new attempt to find an execution method that isn't cruel seems to succeed in inventing a new torture (see the electric chair). In the end I'm not sure if the death penalty is tenable or harmonious with our constitution and societal identity. If we keep it I think there need to be major reforms.

[L0oniX]

74. NO !!!

[harun]

75. I support it, but only with multiple witness's.

and a few other strict caveat's. Not at all in its current form.

[Dreamer Tatum]

78. I support it in cases where we would have a hard time calling ourselves a "society" if we didn't

Open and shut cases of mass murder, open and shut cases of pedophilia with murder, multiple rapists, and so on.

That would describe perhaps 50 people a year in the USA. If that many.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

80. Do you think all those European countries can't call themselves societies? -nt

[Dreamer Tatum]

84. I would have a hard time feeling good about living somewhere like that

I know the utopian ideal is to emulate Europe, where everything is perfect and just, but
I don't want mass murderers kept alive. Feel free to call me a knuckledragger.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

89. So, you'd feel bad in Hawaii.

Or other evil places like Massachusetts, New York, Wisconsin or West Virginia.

Fine by me. I wish more people with such a mindset erected themselves such geographical firewalls.

I'd love living in Spain, Germany, or the Netherlands. Or Wisconsin, for that matter. I guess that makes me criminal-loving scum.

Enjoy the three-strikes paradise that is California.

[Dreamer Tatum]

93. Yeah, I reduced my list of condemned to probably the absolute worst 1%

and that's still not nearly enough for you. Talk about absolutist. Enjoy YOUR gumdrop world, where
mass murderers are merely misunderstood artists, yearning to be set free of the demons that
forced them to kill.


(since you like boiling my opinion down so much, I thought you'd like it too)

[SammyWinstonJack]

79. NO

[LostinVA]

81. 100% against it, 100% for life without parole

Because I DO want to see something criminals have their heads blown off, I am against the DP. Murder is murder, and emotion and vengeance have no place in a court of law.

[Bluerthanblue]

82. no- if it is wrong to kill, it's WRONG to kill.

especially wrong, when the killing is done "by the people" with pre-meditation, the fanfare of the media, and expected to be met with approval and relief.



:shrug:

[SIMPLYB1980]

85. Depends on the case so I will say yes.

I'm glad that McVeigh was put to death.

[Nye Bevan]

86. No. Automatic life without parole for 1st degree murder is better.

That is the system in Massachusetts.

No drama. No demonstrations. No appeal after appeal after appeal costing millions of dollars. No ticking clock count-down. No appeals to the governor, interventions by the Pope, last-minute evidence appearing the day before the execution, endless debates between pro and anti-DP folks, midnight Supreme Court motions, last meals of lobster and Dr. Pepper, etc. etc.

Just lock them up in a 10 by 10 cell and throw away the key. For the rest of their lives. Absolutely no possibility of ever being released. Hey asshole, you commit first degree murder, you will still be here when you are 90, locked up for 23 hours a day and eating a baloney sandwich for lunch. Plenty of time to think about what you did and to stop you from ever doing it again.

[.... callchet ....]

98. Would you consider something like a work farm ?

[Nye Bevan]

102. No. A 10 by 10 cell will do just fine. (nt)

[Greyhound]

87. Another no. The only purpose is to satisfy a sense of revenge and that is not what

the justice system is supposed to be about.

[unapatriciated]

90. simply no

[RedCappedBandit]

91. No, and there is something wrong with anybody who says yes. NT

[ZombieHorde]

94. Would you kill someone to protect an endangered species?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4991472

[RedCappedBandit]

122. Firstly, no, probably not

Secondly, I am not the government. My actions do not hold the same weight.

[HEyHEY]

92. I don't like the idea of governments having the power to kill, so no.

[SidDithers]

95. Not in any circumstance...nt

Sid

[.... callchet ....]

96. I do not support the death penalty nor do I support

inhumane treatment of the offenders.

[HEyHEY]

109. It is amazing how many people just don't get that....

The state has to be above revenge and terrible treatment under the defence of "They deserve it." If we do not act better, where do we get the moral authority to say what is the law?

[DainBramaged]

97. (Yes ) only for these exceptions; Pedophiles who murder children, mass-murderers

those who commit war crimes (including sniveling politicians). Otherwise, jail with no chance for parole is a better alternative.

[slackmaster]

99. I think it's morally justified in some cases, but people aren't smart enough to never execute...

...the wrong person.

[Taverner]

100. No - I firmly believe it is unethical for the state to take life

For any reason other than self defense

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

101. Under The Right Circumstances? Absolutely.

[TexasObserver]

103. No.

[Marrah_G]

105. No

The few cases I would be okay with it are far outwieghed by the injustice and overuse.

[edbermac]

106. Only if it is proven 100% that the condemned is guilty.

I'm sure there are some folks on Death Row that could be innocent, so in the cases where there is some doubt I'd say no. But for the Ted Bundys, Jeffrey Dahmers and Tim McVeighs of the world, hell yes.

[Deja Q]

107. Yes. Two reasons:

1. Some people can not be cured. A mass murderer psycho rapist creep might just escape and continue his actions again. And if you ask me, someone was way too lenient on Charlie Manson. Not just cruel, he was a real psycho. Read up on him. The bastard should have been executed.

2. Like point #1, it's a deterrent.

Sometimes it's necessary.

And I will not apologize for this belief either.

Well, I will apologize that those who do get the death penalty get a death far easier than the death they bestowed on their victims.

[JonLP24]

120. America is the wrong country for the death penalty

Take a look at this fact

At the time of writing, five of the 12 prisoners scheduled for execution in Texas before the end of July 2003 were African Americans convicted of killing white people.(34) None of the 301 people executed have been whites convicted of killing blacks.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/AMR51/046/2003/en/dom-AMR510462003en.html

There is certainly discrimination. Not to mention the death penalty gives people like Texas Governor George Bush the right to execute a retard.(Not PC but I can't think of the proper term at this point)

"We simply cannot say we live in a country that offers equal justice to all Americans when racial disparities plague the system by which our society imposes the ultimate punishment." --Senator Russ Feingold on Civil Rights as a Priority for the 108th Congress, Senate, January 2003

[Upton]

112. Yes I do

for cases such as this one...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22420704/

[ZombieHorde]

126. Do you support the DP in this situation because there were multiple murders,

or because kids were being murdered, or is there another aspect you feel warrants the DP?

[Upton]

128. What puts this case over the top for me

is that the 2 children (3 & 6 yrs old) were forced to watch their parents being murdered before they themselves were killed.

[ZombieHorde]

130. Although I do not support the DP, I agree with you on that being over the top.

That person is a monster. Sometimes I feel like I am lying when I tell my kids there are no monsters.

[bread_and_roses]

113. No. It's officially sanctioned barbarism and

- literally - uncivilized. That is is also applied in a grossly unjust and racist manner is a separate issue, though sadly all too true.

edit: typo

[spanone]

116. no, it's murder....murder for a murder...

[JonLP24]

117. No but if you're going to have a death penalty do it right

More african-americans are executed more then white-americans.

My biggest problem with it is that person may be innocent and will never get a chance to overturn it or prove his or her innocence.

[cboy4]

123. No I do not.

That's why there's such a thing as life in prison.

A far, far greater punishment than death.

[varkam]

124. I find it kind of scary that not only do many people here support the DP...

they want to expand the list of crimes that can get you executed.

:scared:

[ZombieHorde]

127. Duers are fans of violence, don't give out any personal information.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4991472">Check out this poll.

[varkam]

158. No shit, thanks for the tip.

Instead of being worried about terrorists or muggers, perhaps I should be worried about the denizens of DU roaming the streets.

[anonymous171]

129. No, the Death Penalty is completely immoral.

The state should not be able to deal out death to its citizens.

[MrCoffee]

131. No under every circumstance

[sampsonblk]

133. Yes, if administered properly (nt)

[NaturalHigh]

134. I had to vote yes...

even though I remain somewhat ambivalent about the death penalty and likely always will. It scares me that innocent people might be executed, but in cases where the guilt of the offender is not in any question and where the crime is particularly heinous, I support the death penalty.

[Iggo]

135. Oh, jeez.

:popcorn:

[all.of.me]

136. No - woo-woo answer.

I don't believe in killing others for crimes. It's not a solution to the crime rate. Who are we to decide who lives and dies?

I also wonder what's the point of letting them feel no pain anymore? All you do is release them from this painful world. Death is not a punishment. People who commit heinous crimes should live in prison until their natural death. Let them suffer. Why not? The friends and families of their victims suffered. Why stop the suffering of the criminal? Killing them does not hurt them, it releases them. You punish the family with the death penalty, not the criminal. S/he says a big Thank You when they pass.

[ZombieHorde]

141. Is the act of making bad people suffer a beneficial act?

[all.of.me]

145. That person created a lot of suffering.

S/he shouldn't suffer?

[ZombieHorde]

147. I don't see why they should suffer, but I do believe people have a right to defend themselves,

which may cause others to suffer, but the suffering would be a side effect.

[MicaelS]

140. Yes

The crimes committed by some human beings against other human beings are simply so vile, that the proper punishment is death. Murders HAVE gotten out of prison and killed again, have killed prison guards, have killed those in prison for lesser crimes.

Amazing dichotomy and hypocrisy here between the two polls.

[ljm2002]

143. I'm beginning to have second thoughts...

...I've been against it for a long time, now, but the arrogance of the rich assholes who have brought us the current economic meltdown, not to mention how they have enriched themselves at the expense of the poor, of society, and of the world that sustains us all -- it's made me rethink my position.

It is hard to be against the death penalty for the Bernie Madoffs of this world. And he is but one...

I'm still against it, but wavering.

[Joey Liberal]

146. Yes and here's why

Some of the criminals in jail today dont deserve to live.

[BlooInBloo]

149. Do I trust the governent with the power to kill me or another? Fuck no.

[ZombieHorde]

150. I don't trust them with that power either, but I do find it interesting that

Republicans trust that government with the power to kill people, but not with the power to help poor people.

[varkam]

160. To be fair, killing people is easy whereas helping poor people takes work and sacrifice.

Plus, killing people is a lot more fun.

[CLG_News]

152. Yes, for war criminals and terrorists - I mean, the *real* ones.

n/t

[pleah]

155. NO.

[rd_kent]

159. Yes

[scrinmaster]

161. No, but only because I can't trust the government to get anything right.

There are people in prison who don't deserve to be alive, but there are probably some who are innocent, so I can't support the death penalty.

I strongly support the right to self defense, if someone is attacking you, you should have the right to defend yourself or kill your attacker. Florida is great about that, we have CCW, castle doctrine, and stand your ground laws.