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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 11:25 AM
Original message
Biden pledges to continue work on 'missile defense' to counter unspecific threat from Iran
Edited on Sat Feb-07-09 12:10 PM by bigtree
"We will continue to develop missile defenses to counter a growing Iranian capability, provided the technology is proven to work and cost-effective." -Vice-President Biden, speaking in Munich, Germany Feb. 7

I'm going to admit that I got suckered into believing that Pres. Obama was going to stage some sort of enlightened retreat from Bush's transparently political decision to persuade former Soviet satellites in Eastern Europe to allow the U.S. to deploy 'missile shields' in their countries to counter a non-existent threat from Iranian missiles.

The reasoning behind the Bush administration's planned deployment of these 'missile interceptors' to Europe had nothing at all to do with some Cold War threat from Russia or China, according to Secretary of State Condi Rice, who told reporters during a trip to Germany in February 2007 that, "There is no way that 10 interceptors in Poland and radar sites in the Czech Republic are a threat to Russia or that they are somehow going to diminish Russia’s deterrent of thousands of warheads.”

What is it then which compelled the Bush State Dept. and the Pentagon to ramp up the peddling of these missile systems to these European countries, unsettling decades of peaceful cooperation with their communist neighbors? There was a familiar theme which accompanied the fearmongering militarism of the Bush regime. Secretary Rice spelled it out after claiming Russia had nothing to fear from the new, planned expansion of U.S. military influence in their backyard.

“I think everybody understands that with a growing Iranian missile threat," Rice had said, "-- which is quite pronounced -- that there needs to be ways to deal with that problem, and, that we’re talking about long lead times to be able to have a defensive counter to offensive missile threats.”

However, Iran has no intercontinental ballistic missiles capable of striking the U.S. continent. Iran's longest range missile is the Shahab-3, which has a target radius of 620 miles. The Pentagon has been claiming for almost a decade that Iran is developing up to three new generations of the Shahab to increase its range.

There has been absolutely no evidence presented by the Bush or the Obama administrations that Iran possesses missiles threatening the U.S or has even threatened the U.S. with missiles, yet, this entire escalation of concern which had supposedly prompted the Bush regime (and now the Obama White House) to step up the hawking of these dubious systems throughout Europe is predicated on their unspecific claims of an Iranian threat.

It's wasn't enough for the U.S. to illegally invade and occupy a sovereign nation in the face of Russian and Chinese objections -- the Bush regime was intent on pressing their aggression and military posturing against Russia and China's economic ally, Iran, to the point of destabilizing the balance of weaponry in Europe which had allowed the decades-old deescalation of tensions and relative peace to prevail. And, they wanted us to believe that the target of their own destabilizing aggression was the most pernicious threat.

It suited the Bush regime's short term agenda to isolate Russia and China in hopes of forestalling the coming shift in energy resources away from the U.S. as Russia and China bargain for a bigger share of the world's oil, and have made multi-billion dollar deals with oil-rich Iran, to the consternation of the U.S. and their Saudi benefactors who are desperate to stifle the influence of the Iranian oil on the world market.

The Bush regime saw the prospect of Russia’s shifting alliances as threats to the U.S. 'national security'. The administration would have liked nothing more than for Russia and China to be regarded as pariahs in the world community. Bush and Cheney (and Rice) would have been more than satisfied to isolate Russia, and China with a manufactured pall of suspicion and fear, making oil-producing nations reluctant to do business with them out of fear of U.S. retaliation and making existing deals with Iran appear sinister and threatening.

Now it appears that the Obama WH is content to allow the prospect of the realization of Bush's destabilizing, cynical deployment of these dubious 'missile interceptors' overshadowing their promised diplomacy with Iran. Vice-President Biden's statements indicating future support from the administration for some form of missile shield as a deterrent to a potential threat from Iran is a departure from the posture Pres. Obama assumed last July while campaigning.

Candidate Obama had responded to Iran's reported missile tests last summer with a call for direct diplomacy and economic sanctions, if necessary. In contrast, his republican opponent, John McCain, had called for an acceleration of Bush's efforts to persuade Eastern European countries to sign on to the administration's paranoid missile defense ploy. Obama said at the time that he would listen to his national security team to decide whether Iran's reported tests "indicated any new capabilities on Iran's part."

Likewise, early in the transition, Pres. elect Obama's courtesy call to Polish President Lech Kaczynski resulted in reports from Kaczynski's office that Obama had assured him that "the missile defense project would continue."

The Obama transition team quickly put out a statement denying such a promise was made to the Polish president: "President-elect Obama made no commitment on it. His position is as it was throughout the campaign -- that he supports deploying a missile defense system when the technology is proved to be workable."

The last part about waiting for a 'workable' missile defense system was the hook I had relied on to convince myself that Obama had no intention of committing the U.S. to such a destabilizing boondoggle. I now believe the rhetoric about missile defense from Mr. Obama throughout the campaign - always couched in the 'workability' argument - was designed to give voters the impression that the new administration would walk away from Bush's obviously mischievous provocation. I bought it, anyway.

Now, with Biden's meaningless hedge about accepting a missile defense system that "works and is cost-effective," all that stands in the way of moving forward with Bush's destabilizing ploy is some assurance given by the holdover cronies in the Pentagon that the bugs have been worked out and the system is good to go.

What's needed, however, in the decision-making process of approval for this dubious provocation is an open presentation of evidence of the specific threat which has prompted this extraordinary response to a nation (Iran) which hasn't directly threatened the U.S. or Eastern Europe in any way; certainly not with their missiles.

Behind their push for the deployment of these 'missile interceptors' to Eastern Europe, the Bush regime wanted other nations to respond to their strident advance across sovereign borders like adolescents to their paternalistic imperialism.

If the Obama WH is going to alter that opportunistic course, and repair relationships around the globe with their stated intention to lead with their diplomacy, they should reject this coercive protection scheme and reject these missile 'umbrellas'. These insecure military constructions will do little to shield against the mushrooming, destabilizing consequences which accompanied the last administration's reflexive reliance on these types of military provocations to advance their petty politics.

Whether the god-awful things actually work is certainly important, but the Obama administration's most vital concern should be whether these destabilizing systems are being deployed in response to an actual threat, and, if that perceived threat can, instead, be lessened or eliminated by the careful diplomacy promised in the campaign.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm hoping that "works and is cost-effective" is vague enough
to prevent anyone from saying Obama is caving, but also giving wiggle room NOT to proceed with the stuff.

Biden's 9/10/01 speech was about how ridiculous the Bush admin. plan and spending on defense shields was compared to the real threats in the world (bioterrorism, public transit terrorism, etc.) Hope that still holds.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I had hoped the nonsense would end altogether
There may still be hope that the deployment of these systems to Eastern Europe won't be allowed to go forward. But I'm just exasperated at the language which suggests this republican ruse will continue under the same phony rationale of defending against some nebulous, imagined threat from Iran.
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ProgressIn2008 Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Agreed, this nonsense has to stop. How... Reaganesque. nt
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Proven is the keyword here. In other words it's gone.
Unless they actually prove it as working, the thought of which makes me laugh a little until I realize how much they spent.

I say, this means it's gone gone gone.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. will we spend more millions trying to find out?
Isn't the intimidating, destabilizing effect still the same if we're affording ourselves the same kind of of paranoid defense spending against Iran that we employed against the Soviets?

How do you suppose the program has survived through all of the opposition?
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. that's where the real evidence will be - whether we're spending $$ on it. nt
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. this link says he discussed it in context of working with Russia

(from murielvolestranger's thread in LBN which has lots of links)

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/254651,extra-us-will-consult-with-russia-on-missile-defence-biden-vows.html


Munich - The United States will consult with Russia before it makes any move to deploy elements of a missile-defence system in Europe, US Vice-President Joe Biden said Saturday. But his country is determined to push ahead with the system, as long as it works and is not too expensive, he told some 350 top politicians at the prestigious Munich Security Conference.

"We will continue to develop missile defence, provided the technology is proven and it is cost-effective. We will do so in consultation with ... our NATO allies and with Russia," Biden said.

US plans to site elements of a missile-defence system in Poland and the Czech Republic drawn up by former US president George W Bush have enraged Russia, which sees them as a threat to its own security.

Biden admitted that there had been a "dangerous drift" in the relationship between NATO and Russia, and called on the West to "press the reset button and re-visit the many areas where we can and should be working together with Russia."

But he insisted that the US would never allow Russia to claim a "sphere of influence" in Eastern Europe, nor recognize the independence of the breakaway Georgian territories of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Russia recognized the two in August after it fought a brief war over them with NATO hopeful Georgia.

Despite the differences, "America and Russia can still disagree and work together where their interests coincide - and they coincide in many places," Biden said.
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empire we are Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Biden insisted...
"But he insisted that the US would never allow Russia to claim a "sphere of influence" in Eastern Europe."

Imagine another country telling the US it was not allowed to have a "sphere of influence" in North or Central America.

My DU name says it all.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. this article has a longer section of that (not just the phrase) - not just Russia
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/02/wrapup_1-biden_vows_break_with_bush_era_foreign_po.php

"It's time, to paraphrase President Obama, to press the reset button and to revisit the many areas where we can and should work together," he said.

Biden conceded that Washington and Moscow would not agree on everything, citing the Georgia conflict and referring to Russia's resistance to its neighbours joining NATO.

"We will not recognise any nation having a sphere of influence. It will remain our view that sovereign states have the right to make their own decisions and choose their own alliances," Biden said. "But the United States and Russia can disagree and still work together where our interests coincide and they coincide in many places."
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. Sounds like Joe is still fighting the (not so) Cold War.
And, he's still a neo-lib spouting the kinder gentler version of "spreading democracy".
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. he's the bad cop in this empire game?
This might not end well.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. $$$
the contractors for this (Raytheon etc.) have a tremendous amount of capital tied up in it and are expecting it to continue or they will be left empty handed...or they will make it up elsewhere

It is a wasteful idea that will never work but that is the reason it is being continued.

BTW- do we still have TWO systems? Navy and Air Force? :shrug:
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. Talk about pork barrel spending!
Iran is no threat to the U.S., especially if we stop messing around in their backyard.
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martha thacker Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. How would our govt. be different if
Hillary had won? Would she have already fired Rahm Emmanuel and Larry Summers for screwing with our country and the Democrtic Party?
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Welcome to DU
And time will tell, but it seems that in the realm of foreign policy, it didn't matter who we "picked."
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Right, the powers that fund political parties don't want anyone
who represents a "peace first, military force strictly for REAL defensive purposes" approach getting past the primaries. When the corporate media started acting as if Clinton and Obama were the only two candidates (even before the Iowa caucuses), I knew that any "change" we got was going to be minor.

I am not happy about Obama's approach to foreign affairs, but I can't say I'm surprised. If you looked at their platforms instead of their style, their was very little difference between them. That's why the media loved it when their respective supporters were at each other's throats, calling the Obama supporters "sexist" and the Clinton supporters "racist." (DU was rife with such idiotic arguments.)

I was relieved to see that McCain didn't get in, but I expect Obama to be more of a Tony Blair than an FDR.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. Highly doubtful, martha, since Hillary is Mrs. DLC and Rahm and Summers are Clinton
favorites from way back.


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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. Not this shit again.
More change we can make believe in.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
16. Tout la change, tout la même chose. (nt)
Edited on Sat Feb-07-09 08:48 PM by scarletwoman
Or, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
19. If Obama is serious about doing this, what do you think is behind it?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. inertia
I'm hoping Biden stepped out too far on this one, but the die is cast for the near future, as far as the politics of missile defense is concerned.

It's really standard congressional rhetoric to include concerns about an Iranian threat in the defense equation. Biden is a big practitioner of that hawkish rhetoric on top of more reasonable foreign policy prescriptions.

I really don't know if Biden's blather is actually the Obama view. I tended to believe that the talk about a 'working' missile defense meant there wouldn't be any in the near future. With the statements today, though, it will give fuel to the forces in Congress who regularly appropriate a million here and there to keep the industry in the missile defense game.

I do know that Raytheon, a leading candidate for the money, is in Democratic districts, like the support they've received over the years from none other than Ted Kennedy. Other industry incentives and support from Congress are obvious.

It's going to take a firm stand from the President to stop this slow-moving train. I'm not sure his overall goal of maintaining a 'strong' military posture behind his diplomacy will allow him to abandon missile defense which is seen in many debates as a compromise; a step away from actual destructive military confrontation.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. No, this speech was Obama's outreach to the world
and Joe read it word for word. Time will tell if we stick by this or not. I think Obama is taking a cautious approach right now.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-07-09 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
21. "What is it then which compelled the Bush State Dept. and the Pentagon to ramp up the peddling
of these missile systems to these European countries, unsettling decades of peaceful cooperation with their communist neighbors?"

Several things: 1) The Empire still does not take lightly the fact that the Russians are nuclear missile capable. This is a source of great discomfort to the planetary conquest strategy of the corporatocracy. 2) As underpants noted there are some very big players in the military-industrial complex who have a huge stake in this "system". Raytheon is one. The nuclear industry is another. 3) More missile sites equal more U.S. military installations abroad. This one surely needs no explanation.

I'm sure there are many more "reasons" but I can't think of them now.

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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
23. Actual threat to the US is irrelevant, it's all about Israel's paranoia. nt
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UtilityCurve Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
24. Iranian ICBM Capability
"However, Iran has no intercontinental ballistic missiles
capable of striking the U.S. continent."

I thought, based on my recollection of the side-by-side
development of orbital launchers and ICBM's, that the
technology is one and the same?  If you don't want to leave
something in orbit, just dial back the maximum velocity of the
launcher and the payload falls back to earth instead of
staying aloft.  Wikipedia seems to imply that the Soviets used
an early ICBM (R-7?) to launch Sputnik.  

I'm pretty certain the R-7 couldn't have been accurate to
target a particular American city, but the continental U.S. is
a pretty big barn-side!  From a technological standpoint,
finding Britain with a V-2 was amazing; Iran has mastered
orbital injection, which is a club how big?  A dozen and a
half countries at most?

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. that may be correct
Edited on Sun Feb-08-09 05:42 PM by bigtree
But, all of the reports I've read say that Iran could obtain a missile from N. Korea. Iran could pursue a Taepo Dong-type ICBM. That potential 'threat' isn't as sure a thing as advertised. The Iranian capability to target that type of missile has been described as less reliable than the Russians or NK. The only actual threat from Iran where missiles are a concern has been to Israel, or possibly, to Iraq, Turkey and Saudi
Arabia.


IRAN'S POSSIBLE BALLISTIC MISSILE ARSENAL

Short-range missiles (600 miles or less):

* CSS-8, Chinese design, 90-mile range

* Fateh A-110, believed to have been developed in Iran with Chinese, Syrian and North Korean involvement, 120-mile range

* M-11/CSS-7, based on a Chinese model, about 170-mile range

* SCUD-B/Shahab 1, among a number of missiles Iran is believed to have received from Libya or North Korea, 120-190-mile range

* SCUD-C and Shahab-2, developed with help of China and North Korea, 300-420-mile range

* M-9 variant/DF-15/CSS-6, reportedly from China, 480 mile range

Medium-range missiles (between 600 miles and 1,500 miles)

* Shahab-3/Zalzal, based on a North Korean design, 600-900-mile range

* Shahab-3 variants, 900-1,500-mile range

* Fajr-3, radar-evading missile Iran claims it tested successfully last year, though Western defense officials are skeptical, unknown range

Long-range or intercontinental (greater than 1,500 miles):

* Most defense analysts agree it's highly doubtful that Iran has built or acquired longer-range ballistic missiles, though many believe that is Iran's long-term goal.

Source: Congressional Research Service, Defense Intelligence Agency Missile and Space Intelligence Center, CIA report, various government and media reports (November 30, 2007)
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/22340.html


National Intelligence Council
Foreign Missile Developments and the Ballistic Missile Threat to the United States Through 2015
http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/US/CIA/cia-nie99msl.htm

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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
26. Insane! missile defense will NEVER work, engineers & scientists repeat....plus, it antagonizes
Russia, and we should work to be Russia's ally, not enemy

Just pure madness
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-09 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
28. Boeing is the prime contractor on most of this shit.
Raytheon is just a sub.

And Boeing is the all-time favorite of Democratic Empire Mongers, my very own Representative Adam Smith among them. They didn't call Henry "Scoop" Jackson "the Senator from Boeing" for nuthin'. He was the original neocon. And you can trace Joe Biden's lineage almost right back. He has branched out to more sophisticated "globalizing" and "policing." But it all comes from the same misguided place. Deep in the dark heart of Leslie Gelb's CFR twisted soul.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-09 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
29. How does the song go? Meet the new boss, same as....
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