It's Not Going to Be OK

[keep_it_real]

At no period in American history has our democracy been in such peril or has the possibility of totalitarianism been as real. Our way of life is over. Our profligate consumption is finished. Our children will never have the standard of living we had. And poverty and despair will sweep across the landscape like a plague. This is the bleak future. There is nothing President Obama can do to stop it. It has been decades in the making. It cannot be undone with a trillion or two trillion dollars in bailout money. Our empire is dying. Our economy has collapsed.

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/125192/it%27s_not_going_to_be_ok/

[Oregone]

1. Fuck it. Lets go bowling.

[keep_it_real]

15. How about ice skating?

[EFerrari]

31. LOL! That's what my mom did during the Cuban missile crisis.

She decided if she was going to die, she wanted to die having fun. :)

[SoCalDem]

56. awwww, you changed your name...

My brain is aching, trying to recognize "oldies" with "name-lifts".:)

[EFerrari]

60. When I first signed up at DU, I never thought I would post.

lol

Oops! Think of it as my name, maybe that will help. :)

[tsuki]

107. I was learning how to dive under a pile of kindling at my school. nt

[MrPerson]

64. Eight year olds, dude.

[B o d i]

69. What's a pederast, Walter?

[Earth_First]

75. Donny, please... n/t

[MrPerson]

76. Say what you will about the pederasts.....

[mmonk]

84. Nah, I'm heading back out to the RBC this week for some hockey.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

87. I don't roll on shabbas. nt

[pepperbear]

111. I'll find a skinhead. n/t

[sohndrsmith]

112. Thank you for saving me from saying it... : ). n/t

... it's either that or: "Let's all get drunk and play PING PONG!!"

[shrike]

125. "I don't know whether to shoot myself, or go bowling"

Line from a country song.

[Cha]

128. I'm going drumming tonight!

Full Moon~Drumming Circle~Native American Chants~Pot Luck~ It's going to be so cool..my first one.

Bowling's good.

[conspirator]

134. OVER THE LINE ! nt

[Ioo]

2. Well then shit, why bother trying. I am going to go piss off my deck

[keep_it_real]

58. Just don't piss off your ass

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lady Effingbroke]

97. I'm going to go piss off a republican.

It's the least I can do! :D

[704wipes]

138. My final goal in life... now with all this shit

is just to piss on Bush and Cheney's graves.

[NickB79]

3. Prepare to catch a lot of flak for posting this

Not that I'm disagreeing with what you posted (I think it's spot-on), but some people react almost violently when someone connects the dots.

[omega minimo]

17. "some people react almost violently when someone connects the dots."

:rofl:


Those who fancy themselves as "connecting the dots" had better get up off their ass, rather than sit and watch:

#10 "It will be interesting to see how far it has to go before the social order starts to break down."

:thumbsdown:

[Bonhomme Richard]

4. Look on the brightside................

.............................
..........................
....................
.........
Oh well.

[keep_it_real]

16. Is the glass half empty or half full?

[Ikonoklast]

28. There is no glass.

[keep_it_real]

44. NO GLASS! that's really bad

[starroute]

74. No, it just means the glass is an illusion meant to tie us to this sphere of being

It's part of the bill of goods they've sold us, the attempt to turn us into good little mindless consumers by forcing us to focus on the abundance or scarcity of material rewards instead of seeing the larger picture.

And yeah, I'm half joking -- but only half. (Yes, this joke is half full.) The things most of us really want -- education, health, time to enjoy our families and explore our creative potentials -- are not material goods. And being told that our lives will be utter crap for the next 30 years because we won't have as many cool toys is just perpetuating the lies that got us into this shit.

The first thing we have to do is decide what's really important. The second thing is figure out how to provide those things in equal measure to everyone on the planet. And the third thing is to get rid of the goddamn bloodsuckers who prevent 4 billion people from enjoying what really matters so that they can indulge themselves in corporate jets and $2000 an hour hookers.

Fretting and wailing and tearing our hair isn't going to accomplish any of those. So why even bother?

[Uncle Joe]

50. The glass is half full of urine. n/t

[NoPasaran]

120. Time to think outside the glass

[man4allcats]

5. Dang! Now I AM depressed.

Let's see. Where'd I put my pistol? I'll just end this now. :-(

[keep_it_real]

11. Keep Hope Alive

Where there is life there is hope. Have faith, we will make it.

[man4allcats]

33. Thank you for your concern.

I'll be fine actually. I sometimes use hyperbole too freely. I just like the effect exaggeration can offer. That's not to say circumstances aren't dire. We all know they are. Still, I'm not about to do anything so rash as shoot myself - well, not unless something really disastrous happens like maybe a doubling of the price of Jack Daniels. But hey! Other than that, I'm good!

[NeedleCast]

81. Wait, didn't you just get done writing an OP about how its all over?

[Richardo]

6. We saw this tantrum last week

It has not gotten any less embarrassing or whiny. Hand the guy a noose and a stool and let the rest of us get on with our lives.

[BlooInBloo]

7. +1

[Fire1]

65. I believe it was Two Americas who responded to a similar post

suggesting another member just 'off' themselves and 'Two' was on point. To paraphrase the message: We all respond differently to situations but to suggest suicide in a response post is neither called for or constructive dialogue on a discussion thread. Please refrain.

[Bluebear]

8. For this I quit smoking.

:/

[omega minimo]

25. :>o

:spray:

[keep_it_real]

39. You stop smoking pot?

[Bluebear]

41. No, that I don't do. Maybe I should start with this portrait of the future!

[liberal N proud]

9. I give up then

All that effort for nothing.







:sarcasm:

[keep_it_real]

13. Blaim the bush administration

Get angry and fight for life

[ldf]

91. at this point it is not the bushies

sorry, i do this ever so often, but must vent one of my rants.

we now have the majority in both houses.

we may have a real possibility with a president that wants change.

we have an economy that is swirling (clockwise or counterclockwise, depending on the hemisphere) around the toilet drain.

we were told a few months ago, by bush, right before he left office, that if we did not give 700 billion to the banks to fix the mess that THEY got us in, the world was going to come to an end.

congress gave them the money.

that was going to halt the drain circling.

WE (since it is our debt) immediately gave 350 billion of the 700 billion to wall street.

it has done nothing to help. the banks/wall street refuse to give an accounting of what they did with the money, meanwhile all manner of stories have surfaced about them continuing to live the high life while taking tax payer billions. they did not loosen credit.

the election came and went, and we now have obama in the whitehouse, exuding hope and change.

since the drain circling hasn't stopped, they want the second half of the 700 billion. we wanted to attach strings, like capping exec pay, transparency, accountability. the response? what are we thinking. they may not want to play ball. we are interfering with capitalism, the sacred god of our culture.

so, we compromise, it is not retroactive, and it would only be applicable if the banks do certain things with the money. so they find loopholes, ways to do a reach around. they continue business as usual while we tax payers bail them out, pulling them out of the abyss created by their "creative" economics.

on top of that, another (approximately, give or take a hundred billion, or two) 800 billion as a "stimulus", (which is what the FIRST 700 billion was supposed to be for) is needed to "get the country moving again".

never mind the trillion(s) wasted on iraq. never mind the hundreds of billions thrown at wall street, with no questions asked.

NOW we want to help regular americans get jobs, make a paycheck, and consume, which will get our economy going again.

the response?

WHAT ARE WE THINKING? we can't afford it.

we don't need spending, we need tax cuts.

and what was initially proposed for that 800 billion of job creation (why it was ever allowed to have one penny of pork in it, is beyond me, but the portion for that is minimal in the whole bill) has been so watered down that it is now approximately HALF tax cuts, and half spending.

we are the majority, but the republicans are calling the shots.

strange, nothing like that happened when WE were the minority.

can it be that the democratic leaders are so entrenched in their "centrist" obsession that they will NEVER stand up to the republicans?

i think that is the case, and why i, unfortunately, agree with the OP.

our dem leaders will refuse to stand up for what is right. they will compromise to the point that nothing will work.

given that, we will fail. in four years the republicans will have stymied everything they possibly can, so they can then announce to america that obama, who preached change, has failed.

obama will be a one term president because the core of the democratic party will be sick and tired of being thrown under the bus, tired of watching the republicans control the framing, discussion, outcome of issues, while our leaders think compromise, bipartisanship, the steady march to the "center", which is now just to the left of grover nordquist, is the way to go.

many of the core of the party will sit at home. why bother? we just get used, abused, and cast aside.

i can only hope that obama and the democrats will wake up and realize that this is not a game of nicey nice. serious kicking of ass is needed. wrongs need to be made right. those guilty need to be held accountable. lessons need to be learned.

economic sanity and common sense needs to rule, rather than allowing profit margins, dividends, off shoring, outsourcing, to dominate our decision making.

intellectual sanity and common sense needs to dictate equality for all, a job for all, healthcare for all, an education for all.

political sanity and common sense needs to result in the end of ridiculous wars based on lies, outmoded concepts of world superiority, fake "wars on terror" and "wars on drugs", the outrageous concepts of codifying ANY religious belief into law.

the news organizations of the media must start to tell the truth, and ask questions whenever a question needs to be asked, rather than propagandizing to support their own agendas, and improve their own bottom line.

but for all this to happen, we have to get through the short term, economically.

and since it is obvious that WE aren't calling the shots, but instead are allowing the opposition to, change is not going to happen.

hope will be dashed.

so, at this point it is not the bush people we must blame.

it is us for LETTING them continue to obstruct, lie, divert purpose and attention.

apparently the whole "people want change" and "yes, we can" ad campaign really wasn't ready for prime time.

i so want to believe that this fiasco can be fixed. but it won't happen if the republicans call the shots.

every time i watch the political dance that is going on in washington, i realize that we are, have been, and will always be, the wallflowers, and will never be allowed on the dance floor.

while our democratic leaders are busy doing the compromise tango, to the point of failure, they last people they will consider asking to dance, is us, their base.

[keep_it_real]

40. Never give up!

[Political Heretic]

86. Why? I'm sick of gloom and doomers saying all is lost, then saying don't give up.

Pick a side.

Either there's no hope so fuck it all, or author of this article is full of shit.

Pick one.

[ixion]

10. I was talking to a friend about this today

I think most people (including some posters on this thread) are still in denial about the path that lay before us. It will be interesting to see how far it has to go before the social order starts to break down.

[lostnotforgotten]

21. Yes - Once The Luster Of Hope Recedes And The Veneer Of Dignity Erodes Reality Will Set In

Then the question becomes how much of the American Democratic spirit will remain?

That is what Wolin is articulating in part.

[keep_it_real]

57. Denial! shit yea!

[CJCRANE]

12. It's all just a game anyway.

Can't Obama just push the economic re-set button or re-write the rules or something?

:shrug:

[keep_it_real]

19. A game of Life and Death

[lostnotforgotten]

14. I Think This Pretty Much Sums It Up

“I keep asking why and how and when this country became so conservative,” he went on. “This country once prided itself on its experimentation and flexibility. It has become rigid. It is probably the most conservative of all the advanced countries.”

The American left, he said, has crumbled. It sold out to a bankrupt Democratic Party, abandoned the working class and has no ability to organize. Unions are a spent force. The universities are mills for corporate employees. The press churns out info-entertainment or fatuous pundits. The left, he said, no longer has the capacity to be a counterweight to the corporate state. He said that if an extreme right gains momentum there will probably be very little organized resistance.

“The left is amorphous,” he said. “I despair over the left. Left parties may be small in number in Europe but they are a coherent organization that keeps going. Here, except for Nader’s efforts, we don’t have that. We have a few voices here, a magazine there, and that’s about it. It goes nowhere.”

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/125192/it%27s_not_going_to_be_ok/?page=entire

[omega minimo]

23. When was the left "a counterweight to the corporate state"?

" He said that if an extreme right gains momentum there will probably be very little organized resistance."


"IF"!!??!!111ejkj?

:wow:

[lostnotforgotten]

27. That's The Way It Is Now Due To Many Factors Like the Media - Not So In The 60s

This was before Reagan eviscerated the Fairness Doctrine.

[rvablue]

36. All this from a Nader-lover. Figures. He and Kucinich are the only people who can save the world! n

[robinlynne]

47. except for nader's efforts? I was actually listening to this until that little phrase popped in.

[lostnotforgotten]

54. Whether You Or Others Like It Or Not Two facts Remain

1) Nader was not responsible for the Supreme Court deciding for Bush.
2) Nader has called out the growth of Corporatism for many decades.

Wolin cites the 2000 presidential decision and the growth of corporatism as defining factors in how we have arrived at where we are today.

You may hate Nader, for misguided reasons, but the facts are on Nader's side.

[robinlynne]

77. hate or love is not the issue. He does not represent the best efforts of the left. that is ridiculou

[lostnotforgotten]

78. Your Humble Opinion Only - Let's leave It At That

eom

[ebdarcy]

18. Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

[keep_it_real]

37. Are you sure you don't do coke?

[Horse with no Name]

20. Woohoo free money

I'm not paying my bills this month--maybe I can get a bailout!

[CrispyQ]

22. Thanks for posting this.

I read this a few days ago & then lost the link. It's a good article!

snip...

The American left, he said, (Wolin) has crumbled. It sold out to a bankrupt Democratic Party, abandoned the working class and has no ability to organize. Unions are a spent force. The universities are mills for corporate employees. The press churns out info-entertainment or fatuous pundits. The left, he said, no longer has the capacity to be a counterweight to the corporate state. He said that if an extreme right gains momentum there will probably be very little organized resistance.

[tomreedtoon]

24. GUNS! GUNS! Buy more GUNS, you fools!

Kill 'em all! Take their stuff! Stop your freaking WHINING and DO something. If you think the world is as futile as you say, go out and KILL people. It'll make you feel better and at least you won't be a passive little wimp.

[keep_it_real]

46. Please! see a psychologist, please.

[tomreedtoon]

119. I do. Expressing anger and disgust is healthy.

And I am angry and disgusted at a defeatist claiming that our country committing suicide is "reality." The OP is a whiny, spoiled brat who has never known real adversity. He/she got a finger prick and is planning to commit seppuku. He/she is dead wrong.

ON EDIT: Wait a minute. YOU'RE the original poster. How do you like something as offensive as your original post?

[girl gone mad]

71. Wow.. I think you've lost it.

Denial can do strange things to people.

[tomreedtoon]

118. Wishing for death, like the OP, is worse.

If we believe we're defeated we won't need a Bush or a China to defeat us. We have defeated ourselves. That's what the OP did. That person needs an 11 1/2 wide boot enema; failing that, I just posted the logical conclusion to his/her defeatist thinking.

[anonymous171]

73. Fuck guns. Someone dust off the guillotine!

[tomreedtoon]

117. It's hard to carry around a guillotine.

You don't expect the people that need to die to line up politely, do you? You have to go to them, and a monster truck capable of carrying a guillotine is going to have horrid fuel costs. You might as well use that gas for a chainsaw, although the spattered blood would also add costs for cleaning your clothes.

Best solution: learn to use a broadsword and build up your arm strength. At least that's portable.

[tom_paine]

83. What the hell is wrong with you, tomreedtoon? You have gone off the fucking deep end!

This is not the first time I heard this little bit of binary lunacy from you. Sometimes, a hopeless situation motivates people to work harder, and then maybe it turns out the situation was not so hopeless after all.

I cannot imagine your obsession that drives you to such madness. Did someone you love get murdered by a crazy mass murderer? Are you traumatized in some other way? Because every time I see this nutty, irrational response of yours to a certain type of legitimate debate (which you seem to view as an automatic acceptance of hopelessness and some sort of an invocation commit mass murder) you go off the deep end with this ham-fisted Michael-Savage binary ignorant rant?

Whatt he fuck is WRONG with you? Get a GRIP over your borderline psychosis! (which probably doesn't manifest itself in real life or you'd be walking around with a fat lip every time you told someone that you KNEW they wanted to go kill crazy on random innocents or something, because of something they said to you that set you off in this way - no I seriously doubt you dare to bring this kind of madness into the real world in a face-to-face setting)

After seeing this nutty one-track rant of your, I am beginning to become concerned that it's YOU who is thinking about going kill crazy and it is YOU who, in lashing out at these phantoms, is really lashing out at that dark part of yourself you are terrified of.

Excuse the dime-store psychoanalysis, but the way you interject this brand of crazy repeatedly makes me worry for you and for those around you.

If you are struggling with these feelings and you are projecting them onto others, then it is imperative that you struggle to break through your psychosis and get professional help before you act on what you are projecting onto others, but which you are obviously terrified of feeling inside yourself.

I am no psychoanalyst, and I don't know you personally (frankly, after seeing this brand of crazy from you over and over again, I wouldn't want to) so maybe you are driven by some other form of crazy.

Either way, could you please stop accusing people of wanting to be crazy mass murderers without proof? If you are trying to be sarcastic, it isn't working. You just sound like a demented hannidiot, not witty or enlightening with your amazing insights.

And yes, I think that perhaps your mania, if it actually preys on your mind as much as it seems from your repeated crazy posts, you most definitely need to get professional help before that part of you that you project onto everyone else "gets it's dander up".

Splash some cold water on your face. Look in the mirror. Get some help, if you need it. I might rant and rave sometimes, but at least with a purpose, and at least about ISSUES. You sound like that crazy guy screaming on a streetcorner at a head of lettuce.

Get some professional help before you do something you'll regret, if that's what you need.

If not, good Lord think of something new or shut the fuck up, already.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

89. You think he is seriously encouraging you to kill someone, it may you that's delusional.

[tom_paine]

94. No duh. I think his repeated use of this lunatic line in strange non-sequitur-y places

and I do mean REPEATED, may be some indication of some projection or some other neurosis or pychosis in the poster, tomreedtoon.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough when I was speaking of an exhortation to kill, though I looked at it and it seems pretty clear that your inetrpretation of my comments is incorrect and perhaps willfully obtuse.

I'll say it again: if you thought I meant that he was literally esxhorting people to kill, you couldn't be more incorrect.

But when I see a repeat crazy response, which tomreedtoon has made at least half a dozen times over at least a year that I have seen personally, it's either some of the worst, most ignorant attempts at sarcasm or indicative of a deeper psychological problem perhaps involving projection.

Is that clear enough? Or did you find some other nit to pick? A spelling error? Grammatical mistake? Perhaps you should just make a straw man, stuff some more words in my mouth or take me out of context as you just did, then smear me with it.

Brilliant. It beats thinking of something rational to say or actuially trying to discuss something, doesn't it? Hannity and Savage would agree with you.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

95. Certainly created some buzz.

Of course the mere mention of guns here usually does.

David

[tom_paine]

100. Who cares about the mention of "guns" or "buzz"? I am concerned this guy might be a psycho.

I am concerned that he is projecting his crazy onto others. It wouldn't be the first time people have done that, like Ted Haggard denouncing homosexuality by day, and being a meth-addled screwer of gay male prostitues by night.

I could give a shit about gun buzz. But if tomreedtoon's repeated crazy non sequiturs injected into threads are really him publicly begging himself not to do what he dreads in himself but projects onto others, then this is a dangerous situation for anyone around him.

Maybe not. Maybe he's just an asshole who somehow seems to think that a "hopeless" view automatically means people should or would or whatever (let's not bandy stupid semantics, shall we?) go mass murdering, according to tomreedtoon. Sarcasm or no, if it is trying to be sarcasm it is the worst I have ever seen, if he said it only once. But he says this same thing over and over and over again to the point of obsession.

Who cares about guns? I care if tomreedtoon is going to do as he projects what "others" want to do, as he rails against "others" contemplating mass murder, but is really contemplating it himself and screaming at that part of himself, not the others his ego forces him to "pretend" he is screaming at when he is really screaming at himself.

Normally, I wouldn't say anything about this, nor venture such armchair psychoanaysis. But this is at least the SIXTH time in as many months he has spewn this lunacy, and tomreeedtoon has been creepy in this way and gettin' creepier every time I hear this nuttiness from him, the same every time.

I am so glad I don't know tomreedtoon personally, even if he isn't a psychotic powderkeg waiting to explode.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

102. I think you overreact, he has been here 7 years and has over 3700 posts.

[tom_paine]

104. If I am overreacting or exaggerating it's not by much. That makes his crazy

posst that much more significant because his overall post count is so infrequent. I have seen this exact same post at least three times in the last six months, and probably between four and six times.

Now, that's anecdotal evidence, and you can choose to believe I am saying that in good faith or not.

Perhaps I am overreacting. At any rate, I am not suggesting turning him into the cops or the SS or HS or anything. But this kind of repeat crazy of a very specific nature worries me.

Again, you can dismiss my anecdotal evidence. Hell, you could use the DU search engine and find out. Type in tomreedtoon guns kill take stuff into the DU search engine and search.

Now, I didn't intend this to be us crawling up tomreedtoon's asshole with a microscope, but you asked and I am giving you an idea on how to see how much and if I am exaggerating my anecdotal claim.

Other than that, this conversation is getting a little overdone. We could go 'round and 'round forever. And yes, it's much more likely than not that tomreeedtoon's strange obsession with this line of "saracstic" thinking is not indicative of anything more than a big ego and a lack of something substantive to say.

Respond if you wish, but I have had more than enough of talking about tomreedtoon or anyone else. I do hope he comes back and sees our conversation, though. I don't mind saying it to his cyber-face or even his real face, if we should ever meet.

Hopefully, he won't whip out his AK-47 in response and stitch me full of lead.

:sarcasm: (I hope)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

105. Seriously doubt he owns an AK-47, very few are owned in the US.

[tom_paine]

106. LOL. NOW who's humor impaired?

That was a joke, dude.

I even used the :sarcasm: smiley.

See you 'round the boards.

:hi:

Peace.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

108. Seems like most people here don't know that.

[tomreedtoon]

116. I'm far healthier than the OP, dear.

The OP is the one who has given up. And when you give up, violence or suicide is the only solution. Suicide is passive. Violence is active.

You want to complain, complain about the OP that says that we are all doomed.

[tom_paine]

123. Are you now? Ranting the same "screaming" non-sequitur like

a mental patient in an overcoat on a busy city street?

If that's healthy, then healthy is pretty unhealthy.

Further, I will try just once to help you break out of your Cable TV Brain that says there are TWO and ONLY TWO answers to every question.

Like you asserted right in the post to which I am responding. That's as foolish a concept as when Hannity says it...which is all the time about every thing.

But good propaganda and advertising works at the subconscious level, where people cannot defend. It works by repetition, a psychologically tested, researched and confirmed method. Thanks to media saturation, there is literally no escape.

It is like the air we breathe, it is so pervasive in our media-saturated society. It saps the mind and destroys critical thinking skills of millions. YOUR mind and critical thinking skills, as evidenced here and elsewhere.

It's easy to explain and back my words up, especially as they apply to you. Knowing what I know about the human ego and the pervasive universality of ego-driven denial (which we ALL have, being human beings), I do suspect it will bounce off the extra-thick "ego-armor" of the Binary Mind.

Here goes, anyway. You said:

The OP is the one who has given up. And when you give up, violence or suicide is the only solution. Suicide is passive. Violence is active.

You want to complain, complain about the OP that says that we are all doomed.

How many logical and critical thinking fallacies exist in that tiny blurb you wrote? So many, I am concerned I can't spot 'em all, so let me just start with the most obvious errors of the Binary Mind.

You said "The OP is the one who has given up," but this is such arrogant foolishness as to be staggering. You don't know this person at all. Human personality and belief is so nuanced, so varied, that it is simply impossible for you to make that assertion based on one article.

But the Binary Mind doesn't see that. The Binary Mind, tomreedtoon, ONLY sees yes/no or 0/1 answers. Like you did. "The OP said it, which 100% means the OP has given up," is what you implied, and don't insult my intelligence by bandying semantics with me...THAT IS WHAT YOU ALWAYS IMPLY with this crazy, slightly scary projective cookie-cutter diatribe of yours.

The OP said 0, which means he is 0. If he said 1, it means he is 1. What? He might have meant 0.5? There IS NO SUCH ANSWER, at least in the mind of a Binary Thinker.

MORE BINARY FOOLISHNESS FROM YOU in assuming that not only has the OP given UP, but this incorrect binary assumption, but assumes his actions, in the usual Binary way, only two answers EVER to ANY question. Give up? Suicide or violence MUST be THE ONLY TWO ANSWERS!

Ummm, what about suffering in silence? What about rededicating yourself in a constructive way, even though it seems hopeless, because sometimes things are not as bad as they appear, and history is replete with hopeless situations that were not quite as hopeless as everyone was warning?

No, no, no, the BINARY MIND does not compute such things. Suicide or violence, the only two answers? That is not just binary cable TV-brained foolishness, but a whole other kind of foolishness as well.

The biggest foolishness in your lunatic non-sequitur of a binary rant is the simple logical fallacy that someone who has spent their life writing articles, working, traveling, etc., fits the definition of "giving up". Again, your inability, as far as I can see, to engage your critical thinking skills and push aside binary foolishness, leads you to such mad conclusions that people like Hedges, who are VERY PASSIONATE AND ACTIVE, HAVE GIVEN UP?

Ahem, I believe giving up means you STOP working on making things better or alerting people to the danger so they can make things better before the worst happens.

If Hedges, a multiply published author, both books and newspapers, is an example of "giving up", maybe we should all try what you call "giving up". Because, under your crazy binary-induced definition of giving up, activity doesn't seem to cease, but increase.

That's an odd definition of "giving up", isn't it? "Giving up" means tremendous activity?

In short, that tiny blurb you wrote, while perhaps not indicative of a psychosis, is so shot through with sloppy, binary, cable-TV-brained thinking as to simulate psychosis very well.

You need to throw off the binary chains that have unwittingly bound your mind, have bound all our minds. (I do not exclude myself from this group)

Use your self-awareness to plumb WHY this issue touches you so deeply and sets you off so crazily. Most importantly, get back in touch with your critical thinking skills and remember that there are almost always more than two answers 0/1 yes/no if/then to human questions, and that assuming there are ONLY two answers to every question, makes it impossible to get a full understanding of the world.

It also happens to be how the Hannidiots think, and more importantly, they think that way because the Bushies WANT us to only be capable of 0/1 yes/no thinking. Makes us more clueless, and easier to manipulate. You are playing into their hands. I am sorry to be so harsh, but nothing is more grotesque than watching a free mind voluntarily or unwittingly embracing the Hannidiot's Mode of Binary Thinking.

OK, I've said enough. Probably a waste of time, human ego being what it is, my own included, and yet I tried. Look in a mirror, tomreedtoon, and remember how to critically think. I know you know how. I have read your posts. Find yourself again...

[tomreedtoon]

130. This isn't therepy. This is reality.

I appreciate the amateur psychologizing, but you're ignoring the OP and her "let's give up" attitude, which was the FREAKING POINT of what I was saying.

I am not ready to give up on Americans or the American ideals, although Republicans and the loonier forms of Democrats are jumping at the chance. There's no difference between those two groups, anyway. The Republicans want to turn us into serfs to support the ultra-rich. The OP, apparently an anti-tech anti-capitalist, wants us all dressed in Supreme Soviet-approved rags and to shuffle to our committee-assigned jobs on foot, because cars and capitalism are evil. Either way we all end up just as lowly and abused as Harry Potter's house elves.

[tom_paine]

132. I knew it. I KNEW it would fly right over your head!

I KNEW any logic and reason wuld bounce off your thick obtuseness.

The amateur psychologizing is because you talk VERY much like someone who is considering doing what you so vehemently project onto others. Otherwise, I would let you stew in your own ignorant binary obsessive shortsightedness.

Your absolute denial and utter lack of self-awareness is stunning, and one doesn't have to be a professional psychologist to recognize unbalanced thinking, especially when it is so very commonplace these days.

Again, the blind shortsighted foolishness of the weak-minded Binary Thinker is on display in you. Which I wouldn't care about except the fact that I now wonder if your crazy projection doesn't mask something deadly beneath, so obsessed you are about this topic and crazy to anyone who tries to discuss with you.

You said :rofl: :crazy:

I appreciate the amateur psychologizing, but you're ignoring the OP and her "let's give up" attitude, which was the FREAKING POINT of what I was saying.

I am not ready to give up on Americans or the American ideals, although Republicans and the loonier forms of Democrats are jumping at the chance. There's no difference between those two groups, anyway. The Republicans want to turn us into serfs to support the ultra-rich. The OP, apparently an anti-tech anti-capitalist, wants us all dressed in Supreme Soviet-approved rags and to shuffle to our committee-assigned jobs on foot, because cars and capitalism are evil. Either way we all end up just as lowly and abused as Harry Potter's house elves.


That first line is delusionally crazy in a Hannity-Savage kind of way. Actually, I spent quite a bit of time in my previous post on the OP, and how your blind foolish binary assumptions are ridiculous, given that you have not one iota of actual data to back you up except your own fevered binary imaginings.

But like a true crazy, you looked right through it. Like a Hannidiot, it did not compute and therefore did not exist. You crazies sure are amazing in how much you can deny and how easily you can deny it. You make me understand Holocaust Deniers and all deniers a little better. Thank you for giving me this up close look at the Denial archetype.

We do agree on our dislike of Communism. Even if this guy was a Commie, does it truly automatically disqualify everything he says, even if it is true? If he said "1 + 1 = 2" should I be like you and Sean Hannity and insist that it equals three, just because the Commie who's philosophy I despise said it equals 2?

That is the dullest-witted kind of thinking our nation has to offer, and you emulate the Hannidiots with perfect clarity in doing so.

tomreedtoon, I MUST have had you confused with someone else when I said I respected your previous posts. You are a fool, plain and simple, and there is no nice way for me to say it. A potentially dangerous fool, at that.

And please, please seek some professional help before you go mass murdering. (like Ted Haggard's profilagate use of gay sex and meth by night whil decrying them by day)

You may be a fool, but the more I "converse" with you on the Web the more I realize you could very be the most dangerous kind of projector, danegrous to those around them.

Seek help. You are correct, you are far beyond some friendly advice or amateur psychologizng. My amatuer psychologizing is no substitute for the professional help you so desperately need. You need the REAL THING.

Interstingly enough, your initial reply was creepliy Ted Bundy sounding. Cool, above-it-all, attempting to be charmingly superior, and contemptuous of the very idea that ol' Ted or tomreedtoons could EVER do such evil things.

Also, you dared not answer or discuss any of my points or contentions. I understand why. Ego, especially damaged ego, DESPISES the mirror held up to it. I can understand perfectly why you would eschew rational debate for some more irrelevant non-sequiturs to try and drive me off topic, namely the dangerous insanity and binary-thinking crazy you seem to have combined and now vent as projecion onto others.

Maybe there's nothing to it, but that's quite a combination of ignorance, arrogance and denial you've got going there. I'll bet many potential mass murderes could sympathize with your point of view...at least until the sick fucks went out and did it.

Maybe I am wrong. But you really do need to seek professional help before that inner demon of yours that you keep pretending is others' demon, breaks out and does terrible the things you worry about in yourself, when you scream at "others".

Get professional help, NOW. The first thing you want to examine is your creepy obsession with giving up, why it galvanizes you from 0-60 Crazy in two seconds flat, and why you are so obsessed with murderous violence, and guns in particular.

Please don't kill anyone between now and the time you seek help.

'Bye now, Nutsy Not-See Binary. Time to put you on ignore. Enjoy your crazy.

But, seriously, get some professional help and examine your obsession before you hurt someone.

[tomreedtoon]

135. It was SARCASM, you obtuse idiot!

I can't afford to buy one of those fancy blood-red-dripping "sarcasm" icons that people use around here, to clue in dummies like you that what they have written is sarcasm. I normally expect people to have a modicum of intelligence when they read things online. Apparently you don't.

Or perhaps you were the victim of violence and didn't come upon a way to cope with it. I have been the victim of violence many times, and I got adjusted to the cruel nature of humanity. You must be stuck in the "cringing" stage. Maybe someday you will grow out of it, or maybe you will become as fearful and superstitious as the OP. But I doubt it, because you're so rock-stupid dumb.

[tularetom]

26. If that's true why are we here whining about it?

If there is nothing we can do to stop the slow steady decline of humanity back to prehistoric times why aren't we all just sitting around smoking weed and making love. Why work, why give a shit, why even attempt to improve things?

Paraphrasing Otter, "Wormer's gonna fuck us anyway. So we might as well have a good time".

[CJCRANE]

32. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

:shrug:

[Beam Me Up]

35. The Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!

Geeze, I hadn't heardathat. :crazy:

[CJCRANE]

43. Hell no!

And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!

What the fuck happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh?

"Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer -

[keep_it_real]

51. Damn Right, Let's Role Baby!

[robinlynne]

49. ROFL!

[tularetom]

59. FORGET IT HE'S ON A ROLL

[keep_it_real]

55. Sometimes whining is a good thing

Helps relieve the stress

[ProgressIn2008]

29. I really, really like Chris Hedges -- not just for his ideas but for his writing

The man can write. I wonder if those dismissing him have ever read any of his works -- not only is "American Fascists" fascinating, but here's one of my favorite essays of Hedges', taking on the Ivy League. (He should know, he went to Harvard Divinity School, but then became a fierce and insightful critic.)

The Best and the Brightest Led America Off a Cliff

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20081208_hedges_best_brightest/

I'll take Hedges any day over most of the fauxgressive pundits on the chat circuit.

[Fire1]

68. Then you need to log out and LEAVE!

[G_j]

30. Duh!

the whole system as it exists, is unsustainable.
what's to mourn about the collapse of a house of cards?
My elders have known about this for a long time.
The indigenous peoples knew it would come, as the sun comes up in the morning.
It is a grand correction, understanding this is how we will survive.
Don't despair.

[CJCRANE]

38. What do you think of the idea of eco-friendly conspicuous consumption?

What if you could feel guilt-free about buying a new car because you knew your old car was recyclable...?

:shrug:

If consumer products were made more bio-degradable and recyclable we could have the best of capitalism and environmentalism...

[G_j]

45. if sustainability was the goal, we could do it.

the reason we are in a "crisis" is that it has never been the goal. I imagine after lots of pain and disintegration, we could very well rebuild a sustainable society. We have to learn somehow.

[Delphinus]

53. Hi G_j.

I can understand that this is a grand correction, but a lot of people are going to suffer.

What do the elders say about how to survive this? I agree, despair isn't the way through. I think we need to feel it then come to a plan of action. What do the elders suggest?

And, by the way, I *LOVE* that picture for the Dept. of Peace!! Where can I get a sign like that?

[G_j]

67. of course one the most basic

message is learn to grow food and get in tune with nature. This is certainly a big part of the Hopi teachings, as in many others.

As far my personal experience of listening, this is sort of a quick take:
Being in tune also means community. Without real community, and a real desire to take care of each other, we can't do it.
So these are things we can learn. First, community, so we can work together. There is already plenty of suffering, we will all have make huge sacrifices and help each other. It is a time like no other, but it is good to keep in mind the inner beauty we gain from the crisis and trouble.
Our hearts and our willingness to love, we will be challenged,

**That photo is an photobucket, in fact, it would be great for folks to recommend it, because I think it may be considered for the inauguration book.
(I'll try to find it again.)

[Delphinus]

121. Ah, yes, community.

This is one of the reasons I have felt so strongly over the years that small local groups, such as neighborhood associations, are very important. We simply CANNOT make it on our own. I know that goes against so much of our mythology - the rugged individualism and pioneers - but we must do this together.

I wish I could find where I belonged because I'm not finding the community here where I live - despite my efforts and hard work.

[keep_it_real]

61. Those who don't have a job despair, those who do have a job don't despair.

[G_j]

72. I didn't mean it that way

sorry, I was not trying to make light of anyone's suffering. I am lucky to be 57 and have a job for 8$ an hr!
I drive a crap car, have no health insurance and need badly to see a dentist.
Still, despair kills. I've know plenty myself. All I'm saying is we will have to make some 'grand' adjustments, because our way of life is not sustainable. Maybe one could say, it's a law of physics.

[sandyj999]

34. Well Crap! n/t

[Juche]

42. He was wrong 2 paragraphs into it

"At no period in American history has our democracy been in such peril or has the possibility of totalitarianism been as real."


Uh huh. What about the espionage act? What about the business plot? What about the fact that torture wasn't even illegal as a way of gaining info until 1936? What about the civil war?

Its hard to take his doomsaying too seriously when you consider those things. I'm not saying that things will be easy, but I'd say the civil war and the business plot were bigger threats to our democracy than what we are going through now.

[G_j]

62. Democracy is at peril

because of a critical mass being reached. The economic system that has evolved, and the Military Industrial Complex is a player in this,
has a built in obsolescence.
The greatest peril in the history of this Democratic experiment? It is certainly debatable, given how much every individual is tied to this system from birth.

I'll also emphasis that this is an experiment in Democracy, a dream that is struggled for, we really haven't reached it yet.

[Political Heretic]

88. People always think RIGHT NOW is the most serious time EVER

It's just a tendency of human beings.

Civil War > Current mess.

[Delphinus]

48. No amount of money thrown out

will make a difference - I tend to agree with that statement.

This paragraph bothers me:
The American left, he said, has crumbled. It sold out to a bankrupt Democratic Party, abandoned the working class and has no ability to organize. Unions are a spent force. The universities are mills for corporate employees. The press churns out info-entertainment or fatuous pundits. The left, he said, no longer has the capacity to be a counterweight to the corporate state. He said that if an extreme right gains momentum there will probably be very little organized resistance.

[lumberjack_jeff]

52. Our gdp is 44,000 per person.

There are plenty of resources to avoid the Mad Max scenario.

What is lacking is the political will to fix the real problem: wealth inequality.

[bvar22]

63. Reading this makes me glad I'm old.

The things my wife and I learned in The 60s are serving us well today.
Anti-Consumerism & the Simple Life was a mantra in the '60s.

As much as possible, we have stopped consuming in the Corporate sense of the word.
Next year, we will consume even less.

Gotta go.
Starkraven is baking bread, and it is almost ready.

[dysfunctional press]

66. it makes me glad i didn't have kids.

not a world i'd wish on them.

[G_j]

115. beautiful garden you got there!

thanks for being part of a healthy paradigm.

[anonymous171]

70. COMMUNIST REVOLUTION TIEM! ARE YOU READY COMRADE?

[Carni]

80. Apparently you weren't around for the first bush admin

Yeah this is dire and YES THIS SUCKS, but never say never...this shit has transpired before and we didn't all perish.

[blues90]

82. Anyone up for their first hang glidding ?

Why the hell not , go out in style.

[Political Heretic]

85. Whatever. It's not going to be *the same* - is not the same as its not going to be "OK"

I have more control over whether or not things are going to be "ok," even when times are tough.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

90. Glad I have all my guns so I'll still be able to eat.

[BlooInBloo]

92. I use forks.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

93. I've never tried hunting with forks, does it work well?

[BlooInBloo]

98. About as well as eating with guns.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

99. Haven't tried that either.

[chill_wind]

114. :-)

[wartrace]

124. Game will be hunted out pretty quick Dave.

I'm glad I have a large garden, canning supplies, a chicken coop and am building a rabbit hutch. I am glad I have a years supply of LTS food (freeze dried) and a well to provide fresh water/ solar oven to cook with. Oh, I have a few guns as well but I don't expect them to provide much sustenance.

[SammyWinstonJack]

96. Guess I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

:evilgrin:

[Urban Prairie]

101. "What Shall We Do Now"

What shall we use to fill the empty spaces
Where waves of hunger roar?
Shall we set out across the sea of faces
In search of more and more applause?
Shall we buy a new guitar?
Shall we drive a more powerful car?
Shall we work straight through the night?
Shall we get into fights?
Leave the lights on?
Drop bombs?
Do tours of the east?
Contract diseases?
Bury bones?
Break up homes?
Send flowers by phone?
Take to drink?
Go to shrinks?
Give up meat?
Rarely sleep?
Keep people as pets?
Train dogs?
Race rats?
Fill the attic with cash?
Bury treasure?
Store up leisure?
But never relax at all
With our backs to the wall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXr_pJXKQAY&feature=related

[BlooInBloo]

103. Jeebus. We're gonna have to put up with these END OF DAYS! fucks for like 2 years...

Or whenever the ship rights itself.

Sigh.

[BrightKnight]

109. The sky is falling. - n/t

[progressivebydesign]

110. Goodbye cruel world. Seriously, that is just pretty freakin' depressing.

Perhaps I have something wrong with me, but I am not getting into this doom and gloom shit. Yeah, times are tough for many people, but it's not the end of the world or civilization as we know it. People still shop, eat in restaurants, go to school, fall in love, adopt shelter animals, throw pennies in fountains, go to carnivals, eat cotton candy, play hide and seek, listen to music.

Our economy has not collapsed. Frankly, our County had home prices just stabilize and pending sales are up 26% in January. Furthermore, retail spending was off 1.6% in January. 1%! That's hardly the end of the world.

Regardless of what's going on, I'm enjoying my life regardless of what comes my way. Sitting around being despondent only does one thing... makes you feel like shit. What's the point of that? There is far too many wonderful things still out there. For god's sake.. OUR version of bad, in this country, is the type of affluence most of the world would kill to have. I REFUSE to be a part of the fear-based economy.

[tom_paine]

113. Good post. I disagree but you state your positions and reasoning well.

Princiipa obstis. Finem respice.

(resist the beginnings, foresee the ends)

[ddeclue]

122. What a load of CRAP...

THIS is supposed to be the "worst of times"???

Not even close folks...

Times are bad but this is hardly WWII or the Great Depression MUCH LESS the Civil War...

Grow a pair and stop all the "sky is falling" nonsense...

Doug D.

[HughBeaumont]

136. The author's a Naderite.

Another "PLEASE tell me HOW you're lives are going to improve with President Messiobama at the helm" joker. Just as bad as the Ron Paulnuts.

Corporations would never play by Nader's (hardly a progressive, BTW) plan. Libertarians have far too much of the worst corporate/free trade/outsourcing/globalization embracement so common with Repukes going on.

Republicans are irrelevant country-destroyers and I will never stop pounding the message home that people ALWAYS remember that THEY. CAUSED. THIS. And if you don't want to go BACK to this, PLEASE stop thinking that giving them a chance will actually WORK this time. There are no more Eisenhower conservatives. Anyone running on the Republican ticket has no choice but to be a complete and utter whackjob. They won't run anyone reasonable. They run whackjobs. That's who took them over. Whackjobs. Republicans don't take anything seriously, most of all Presidential elections.

We need to see if Obama can do what needs to be done before offing ourselves. I refuse to listen to this alarmist crap also.

[Odin2005]

126. Note to Naderites and Cynics: STFU.

It's people's rejection of the defeatist "woe is us, we're fucked" BS that resulted in the coining of "YES WE CAN!!!"

[cherish44]

127. It's ok Jesus is going to take us all to live in the clouds with him any second

Well the ones he doesn't hate anyway...

[hunter]

129. Life will go on.

Our empire is dying? Good.

Our freakishly unsustainable "consumer economy" is collapsing? Good.

This is our opportunity to build a society that is just and sustainable. Let's be sure everyone has enough to eat, a place to live, a doctor to go to when they are ill, and the freedom to speak their mind.

We can achieve that if we keep our wits about us. It's time to build a better world.

[chrisa]

131. Our empire is dead, but.

We're not going to be eating rats. Another country will take our place. The future isn't so bad.

[OneBlueSky]

133. "There is nothing President Obama can do to stop it" . . .

hmmm . . . maybe yes, maybe no . . .

certainly nothing that's currently being contemplated is going to stop it . . . but are there things that could be done to shake up the system(s) sufficiently to create real change? . . . and maybe "stop it?" . . .

well, let's brainstorm . . . President Obama could . . .

- announce his unqualified support for a universal, single payer healthcare system that "eliminates the middle man" (i.e. the HMOs, insurance companies, etc.) . . .

- announce a 30% reduction in military expenditures, starting with all the new and unneeded weapons currently in development . . .

- announce a program to commercialize and decriminalize hemp, and the creation of a whole raft of new hemp-based industries . . .

- nationalize all the banks that are, for all intents and purposes, insolvent . . .

- announce the creation of a "Manhattan Project" to develop alternative energy technologies and promote energy conservation . . .

- announce a return to the progressive tax rates that existed before the "Reagan Revolution" . . .

- announce the strict re-regulation of corporations, particular in industries that are critical to the public welfare (utilities, banks, etc.) . . .

- penalize corporations for sending American jobs overseas to increase their profits and/or for off-shoring their operations to avoid U.S. taxes . . .

- rescind all of the "tax cuts for the wealthy" enacted during the Bush years . . .

- etc., etc., etc.

there are, imo, things that Obama could do to "stop it" . . . or at least slow it down a whole lot . . . the problem is that neither he nor the Congress have the slightest inclination to take the kinds of radical steps that our radical crises demand . . .

[LittleClarkie]

137. Are you done beating your tits yet?

That's productive.