The Five Year Ban: Because A Billion Less People Is A Great Place To Start

[Triana]

I don't know about any 5-year ban on human breeding, but something certainly needs to be done...and this half-insane, gold-digging Suleman woman has brought the issue front and center - where it ought to be. For that, I thank her - but for little else - and I feel badly for her sure-to-be-neglected children - AND for the planet they'll be inheriting - thanks in part to her mother and those like her.
_ _ _ _ _

By Steven Kotler on February 08, 2009 in The Playing Field

Want to hear an unpopular opinion: I think we should put Nadya Suleman in jail. Perhaps you don’t recall the name. Perhaps you don’t even believe a crime has been committed. Perhaps you think I should be locked up along the way. Fine. But someone has to start saying things aloud, so here goes:

STOP HAVING CHILDREN.

Nadya Suleman had 14. And they should all be taken from her and raised by fit parents. Seriously, I could care less about the fact that she’s unmarried, unemployed, unable to convince herself that she’s not Angelina Jolie.

She’s a criminal. She’s a murderer. She’s not only guaranteeing her kids a very hard life, she’s killing all of us.

Here’s the truth: we are running out of resources and we are running out of time. The International Committee on Climate Change has said we have thee to five years to curb our ways or the current environmental disaster is irreversible. Irreversible means that the little economic hiccup we’re feeling today isn’t even the warn up round. It’s T-ball compared to the major leagues.

You think the economy is bad now—wait a few years. Wait until we’re almost completely out of oil and food and water and available land and really I could go on for two more pages listing everything we’re running out of. Why? Because we are quite literally running out of everything.

MORE . . .


http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-playing-field/200902/the-five-year-ban-because-a-billion-less-people-is-a-great-place-to-st

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

1. She's a murderer, wow you talk about over the top.

Looks like Mr. Kotler may need some therapy.

David

[Triana]

2. Yea I wouldn't call her that either ....

.... but he has some good points re: population problem. He still doesn't offer any viable solutions but bottom line is: SOMETHING needs to be done and what the Suleman woman has done is simply irresponsible and short-sighted. We, she, or anyone else cannot continue living and breeding as we have been. Any of us.

[liberalhistorian]

42. Yes, he does have good points, but his

hyperbolic over-the-top bullshit will obscure those points for most people, as it should. He is way over the top here, bordering on histrionic. Not to mention a touch of fascism in believing that the state has the right to decide reproductive matters, who raises children, and not the parents.

[ddeclue]

3. Lighten Up Francis!

[Baikonour]

17. HAHA.

Made my morning. Thanks.

[ezgoingrl]

30. I have every line, every word, every voice

inflection memorized from Stripes. I think it comes from watching the movie several times a day for about a year....ah the 80's. When life was easy and simple. (Hey, I was a kid!)

[bvar22]

49. But Baby,

I'm a member of a lost and restless generation.

[Earth Bound Misfit]

54. Don't order the Schnitzel, they're using Schnauzer.

General Barnicke: Where is your drill sergeant, men?
John Winger: Blown up, sir!
Soldiers: Blown up, sir!

General Barnicke: Where have you been soldier?
John Winger: Training, sir.
Soldiers: Training, sir.
General Barnicke: What kind of training?
John Winger: Army training, sir.
Soldiers: Army training, sir.

General Barnicke: Are you telling me that you men finished your training on your own?
John Winger: That's a fact, Jack.
Soldiers: That's a fact, Jack.


John Winger: I've had an interesting morning. In the last two hours I've lost my job, my apartment, my car, and my girlfriend.
Russell Ziskey: You still have your health.

Sergeant Hulka: Soldier, I've noticed that you're always last.
John Winger: I'm pacing myself, Sergeant.

[Earth Bound Misfit]

50. Heh..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k

[4lbs]

4. Waiting for the day that "Soylent Green, Inc." becomes a reality....

n/t

[cabluedem]

18. That movie was way ahead of its time. nt

[Ikonoklast]

68. Ummm... what did you have for breakfast?

Today may have been the day.

[Liberal_in_LA]

5. A five year ban would throw the demographics off... We'd have a 5 year gap in young people

In 20 years we would have no 15 to 20 year olds. I think that would be an economic disaster.

[MADem]

6. How would anyone even enforce such an idiotic idea?

They do population control in China, but if you're rich, or you have Party cred, or you bribe the right official, you can have more than one kid. Geez, we'd end up with a bunch of GOP offspring if that were the case.

[moobu2]

9. It would be a voluntary movement

I don’t think this should be a top down approach. I don’t mean a literal government ban. I mean a grassroots movement of responsible adults behaving like responsible adults. I mean a populist moratorium on childbirth.

If we dont do something, one day it will have to be forced.

[ddeclue]

10. Ummm you do know that doctors are now saying having babies is caused by sex?

:rofl:

You really aren't going to stop people from having sex and accidents always happen sooner or later - we are genetically programmed through hundreds of millions of years to reproduce.

:crazy:

[MADem]

14. Well, I've noticed, over the years, that people who don't want kids don't have them.

And people who do want them won't be dissuaded. Even if they're dysfunctional.

Even if they're infertile.

Even if you tell them they're doing their bit to "save the planet."

They don't give a crap. They want to plant their flag on the earth for future generations. They think their DNA is somehow special and they feel the imperative to reproduce.

It's not a bad idea to raise awareness, but that shouldn't be a Five Year Plan. That has a totalitarian ring to it, at any rate. It should be a continuous discussion topic.

Sadly though, most of the people who listen and decide not to have kids probably wouldn't have had them anyway....

[LanternWaste]

36. For the most part, don't Americans in general practice responsible...

For the most part, don't Americans in general practice responsible child bearing habits which results in our current population growth rate of only 0.883%?

I imagine that the young mother referenced in the OP are merely aberrations rather than a norm in our culture.

[KakistocracyHater]

12. you're funny-in 25 years they'd turn into that age range

I don't get any troubling problems with his suggestion & birth control IS already a solution to overpopulation, it's better than dying from thirst, cholera, typhoid....

[TahitiNut]

44. Yup. So, let's just execute anyone born on a Wednesday. Nice and even-handed.

:evilgrin:

[bird gerhl]

7. Why don't we just restrict first world consumption?

As it is, the first world, which is 15%-20% of the total population, consumes 70%-80% of the world's resources. Seems like we're the problem.

[leftstreet]

11. Now you've done it

:popcorn:

Welcome!

:hi:

[readmoreoften]

23. No! It's the poor brown people's fault! Waaa!

Why would they "choose" to have four children when they only earn $2 a year picking coffee for American consumers? Why don't they go buy some condoms or get on the pill or have an abortion or something... Why if they didn't have so many children, I'm sure they'd be CEOs by now...

:sarcasm:

[Strong Atheist]

34. Welcome to DU! nt.

[stuntcat]

66. such..

such a wise-seeming comment.. followed up by a "your momma's basement" comment.

Knowing my brain I'll think of you every time I hear Bird Gerhl now.

:banghead: out! out!

[pansypoo53219]

8. bring on bird flu.

seeing the usual plague is less deadly.

[stuntcat]

26. *hope*

The last chance the Earth has right now is to straighten us out with a good plague. This is what I'm hoping for every day.

[TommyO]

28. Because wishing death on hundreds of millions is good policy

[stuntcat]

29. .

:headbang:

[tavalon]

38. You aren't entirely wrong

It would stave off the inevitable for the majority. But, I have to ask, in your scenario, do you imagine yourself surviving the plague?

[stuntcat]

45. nope

I'm just another upright ape. One who's glad her years are half over :)

[ProdigalJunkMail]

60. what a miserable life you must lead to feel that way

keep your bird flu...i hope my kids have a chance to grow up...

sP

[Algorem]

13. i don't hate kids but i'd feel better if a billion more of them weren't around

[20score]

15. The world has been over-populated for decades now. We need every country on board in reducing the

population through birth control. And also educating people about the problem. Hell, most people deny there is a problem. And they are as wrong as a person can be.

A five year moratorium on birth is not the answer, but a reduction in births and a goal of two to three billion people on earth in fifty or so years is what we need to shoot for. Otherwise we will have about ten to eleven billion people on earth in fifty year with the vast majority having a very low quality of life.

[Triana]

16. agreed. totally. n/t

[Marrah_G]

32. Opportunity, education and stability for women does more to reduce population then anything

[20score]

57. Exactly, that needs to be a big part of it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

41. By 2050, there will be 4.35 billion people over 40

See http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/worldpopinfo.html , and select '2050' for the world population query at the bottom of the page. So even if there were no births at all for the next 40 years anywhere in the world, we'd still have over 4 billion people.

There's a lot of momentum in population growth - we're going to reach a population of 8 billion almost whatever we do. For example, despite its 'one child' policy having been around for several years, China's population isn't expected to peak until 2030 or so. Without mass deaths due to starvation, war etc., you won't get the world population below 3 billion in under a century, even if every couple limits themselves to 1 or 2 children.

[Ilsa]

58. Italy's decline has been too drastic, economically,

from what I've heard. And now the fundie nut cases there want to rape comatose women to force breeding to solve their problems. Arrrrrggghhh!

ITA: let's bring down the birth rate and total population. We in the industrialized world are using up too many resources.

[Retrograde]

67. I'd like to see the total population back at 2B, but

I don't have an practical plan to get there in the next few centuries. Educating and improving the living standards of women is a good first step, as is spreading availability and knowledge of how to use family planning. And we can stop publicizing and rewarding unlimited breeding in the 1st World. In my more Draconian fantasies I'd like to see some biological engineering whereby everyone is sterile and must deliberately choose to have children, rather the the way we actually evolved. Gotta to talk to the Diety about that :)

Me? Childless by choice and happy about it.

[20score]

69. Let me know how that talk goes, please?

[Cid_B]

19. I have noticed that this country is dangerously underpopulated...

[wuvuj]

21. Here you go...

[wuvuj]

20. The ABSURD end result...

...of the whole THING where women were all hot and bothered about missing their chance to have kids?

From the same country that caused the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children after the first Gulf war?

Between women and their biological/social urges and the crazy right to lifers...we're SCREWED...so to speak.

ARE humans smarter than yeast? No...they are just :crazy:


I have women fawning all over me when I bring this subject up. :sarcasm:

[Strong Atheist]

35. Welcome to DU. nt.

[readmoreoften]

22. Hate to tell you this, but the billions of poor folks in the 3rd world

Can't afford condoms, abortions, or family planning and they wouldn't be one iota less poor if they had no kids at all. You want to fight overpopulation? Fight capitalism and all the poverty it causes.

[bird gerhl]

61. Why don't we just sterilize everybody in the first world?

The resulting increase in third world standard of living would reduce birthrates for them too! Problem solved! Case closed.

[raccoon]

62. And it's the first world citizens who consume the lion's share of the world's resources. nt

[BlooInBloo]

24. (facepalm)

Christ - now you've 1/2 way justified the fucking stupid things octomom-defenders have been saying.

[stuntcat]

25. she is a criminal

I understand breeding's an untouchable issue with most monkeys :eyes: so I'm sorry to offend, but our population is choking the fuck out of this planet.

Everyone who takes part in multiplying the humans is directly responsible for speeding up the mass-extinction and trashing the future.

I pity the children I see and I find it impossible to respect the decision to give them the rest of this century.

[tavalon]

39. The planet will be fine

The species, including ours, are in great jeopardy.

[stuntcat]

43. yep

It's the Earth that will get us back too, unleashing the diseases that cripple us, taking us out a thousand at a time with natural disasters that get bigger and bigger. I have total faith in the planet! :web:

I can't help feeling there's something cosmically wrong with one bald ape permanently wiping out so many other species. But looking at the big picture I know I should try not to let that bother me so much. I do hope our dominance is crippled in time to give some other animals a chance.. but that's probably silly of me.

[bird gerhl]

63. You probably wouldn't hate human beings so much if you left your mom's basement now and then.

[stuntcat]

65. "hate"? hmm

Hey I think your name and your Etta James pic are cool :) Is your name from the Antony song? I saw him last week, best concert I ever saw I think.

I don't "hate" my species. I Love the Earth. and my heart is broken every day by all the species we're wiping out. I'd like to have faith in humankind but I'm losing it. Responses like the ones here sure aren't helping :) angry angry humans. the "mom's basement" comment..? really makes me wonder how you would have such a poetic name :o

[wuvuj]

70. When you can't handle the message...?

For some people it is always people first...like people as a group aren't responsible for what they are obviously responsible for. I can't really understand this point of view.

Anyone could list several pages of the damages to the environment and other species caused by humans...simple factual information...yet some would deny it.

Sort of like Nixon...if the President does it...it's legal...and if humans do it...it's OK. :think:

[amborin]

72. yep, the planet will be fine, but biodiversity as we know it, long gone

[struggle4progress]

27. Looking for scapegoats won't solve the serious problems we face

Yes, we are running out of resources and we are running out of time -- but that is a systemic problem

[Marrah_G]

31. Ugh- this sort of thinking is just crazy

She isn't a murderer, she isn't a criminal.

She is very disturbed and probably shouldn't be raising these kids.

She certainly shouldn't be praised or encouraged to continue.

[Jim__]

33. Put her in jail? What's the charge?

If she didn't break an existing law, and I don't believe she did, then I'll pass on putting her in jail.

[FarCenter]

37. It would be easier to raise the death rate to 300,000 / day

Roughly speaking, the birth rate is about 300,000 / day and the death rate is about 200,000 / day.

It would only take a 50% rise in the death rate to even things out.

[muriel_volestrangler]

46. That'd be about 5,000 per day in the US, pro rata

I can't see anyone really agreeing to it, somehow. Even 9/11 didn't raise the death rate that much.

[bvar22]

51. Now THAT, I could support....

..if we start with people who were stupid enough to vote Republican, or anyone who thinks driving a Hummer is a good idea.


No wait.
Start with these:

Ben Nelson (D-NE)
Mark Begich (D-AK)
Tom Carper (D-DE)
John Tester (D-MT)
Mary Landrieu (D-LA)
Evan Bayh (D-IN)
Jim Webb (D-VA)
Mark Warner (D-VA)
Michael Bennett (D-CO)
Claire McCaskill (D-MO)
Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH)
Mark Udall (D-CO)
Joe Lieberman (I-CT)

They are the ones who sold us out over the weekend.

[liberalhistorian]

40. So, would this idiot have demanded that

my son be taken from me when he was born because I was a single parent living with my parents at the time? I remember Newt Gingrich advocating the establishment of "orphanages" for the children of single parents, after they were taken from them; my son was a toddler at that time.

[TexasObserver]

47. Allowing people to have as many kids as they can pop out is insane.

We are all burdened by their lack of good sense and desire to fill the world with their children.

More than four is too many in today's world.

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. A five year ban would only decrease the population by 250 million, at first

From http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/worldpopinfo.html

2010 estimated world population: 6,869,643,038
2015 estimated world population: 7,271,123,129
of which aged 0-4: 655,081,566
2015 population with no births: 6,616,041,563
decrease in population from 2010: 253,601,475

It only really takes effect if there's a long-term decrease in births.

[Matariki]

52. Somebody's got to say it...

[Occam Bandage]

53. We can't do a whole lot about the birth rate. We can, however, change the death rate.

Obviously the solution is to murder everyone at retirement age. We can then recycle and reprocess their bodies into fuel, food, and fertilizer.

[FatDave]

56. It's like Logan's Run meets Soylent Green

Wait, now that I think about it it's just like Logan's Run.

[muriel_volestrangler]

73. Well, you could also murder anyone who has a third child

*** note, I am not saying this would be a good thing; this is just the totally amoral, inhuman, way of thinking about population control ***

After all, murdering everyone at retirement age just cuts down on the number of people alive at one time; after an initial surge in death rate, it would be the same death rate as before; and it would have more or less no effect on the birth rate at all. And many people don't get to a 'western' retirement age in the developing world (only 7.6% of the world is over 65 now - about 520 million people). Murdering people of child-bearing age would lower the birth rate too.

[jmg257]

55. I've had my kids, so I am good with this. But then again, I like kids better then old

people, so maybe we could come up an...alternative solution?

:sarcasm:

[RandomKoolzip]

59. It's "fewer," not "less."

So, for those of you keeping score, that's one point taken off for grammar and about forty for the dumbness of the topic.

[vanderBeth]

64. LOL

:rofl:

:thumbsup:

[rug]

71. Why not just shoot one out of six people? We can draw lots.

[Delphinus]

74. He says:

I don’t think this should be a top down approach. I don’t mean a literal government ban. I mean a grassroots movement of responsible adults behaving like responsible adults. I mean a populist moratorium on childbirth.

Trouble is, those who are aware of our dwindling resources are probably doing this anyway, so I think it's going to take more than a grassroots movement.