Girl gets a year in jail, 100 lashes for adultery

[Matariki]

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=2009020828735

EDDAH – A 23-year-old unmarried woman was awarded one-year prison term and 100 lashes for committing adultery and trying to abort the resultant fetus.
The District Court in Jeddah pronounced the verdict on Saturday after the girl confessed that she had a forced sexual intercourse with a man who had offered her a ride. The man, the girl confessed, took her to a rest house, east of Jeddah, where he and four of friends assaulted her all night long.
The girl claimed that she became pregnant soon after and went to King Fahd Hospital for Armed Forces in an attempt to carry out an abortion. She was eight weeks’ pregnant then, the hospital confirmed.
According to the ruling, the woman will be sent to a jail outside Jeddah to spend her time and will be lashed after delivery of her baby who will take the mother’s last name. – Okaz/SG

[Matariki]

1. I want to live to see the day when this is NOT acceptable in any part of the world

Woman's rights == Human rights

[TWiley]

67. Better start in America ..... Lots of Christian fundamentalists agree

I am not so sure about the whipping part, but I am certian of the anti-abortion part. I also believe that most fundamentalist would also support the jail sentance.

Better focus on keeping Ohio safe first.

[bluestateguy]

2. I do not respect their culture

All cultures do not deserve respect.

That's not politically correct to say, but I don't care.

[FiveGoodMen]

47. Count me in.

Treating ANYONE this way is not acceptable. Not even close.

Culture: Doing the same stupid things your peers are doing.

Tradition: Doing the same stupid things your ancestors did.

[Avalux]

3. She was raped and gets jail time and torture.

Sick and barbaric culture that would punish the victim. Disgusting.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

73. That's how our oil-rich allies roll.

Sick bastards the lot of them.

[MADem]

4. Outrageous. Unsurprising, but outrageous nonetheless.

And I rather doubt there will be any success in prosecuting the rapists involved.

Notice how they have to do it in a group, the cowardly little shits.

[snappyturtle]

5. Unbelievable! I suppose she'll be shunned the rest of her life.

Would someone remind me why we are 'friends' of Saudia Arabia.

[terisan]

13. We buy their oil and therefore ignore their human rights abuses. nt

[snappyturtle]

15. I'm sorry...I should have used a sarcasm tag...thanks for answering

without venom! :hi:

[cbc5g]

6. Those islamic cultures really hate women don't they?

[Lyric]

7. Well, the Wahhabists certainly do.

I wouldn't paint all of Islam with that brush, though. The Wahhabists are what Opus Dei or ultra-fundie Protestant types would be if they had total control over the government and the people. They aren't a good representation of Islam as a whole.

Still, women's rights have a long way to go, even in less restrictive (as compared to the aforementioned) Muslim cultures and nations. *sigh*

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. there is nothting to indicate that saudi arabia was treating women better before mohammed

when islam started women were given rights for the first time, which was far more than they had before.

a lot of this is the royals controlling saudis with religion as a pretext

[TheWraith]

49. To be more accurate, the Saudi Royals actually don't really care much for the religion.

In fact, they tend to be far more westernized than the rest of their people. But they let the extremists run the legal system because it keeps the peace between the fundies and the upper class.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

54. yes, that. it works in their favor is all i was trying to say.

[TheWraith]

62. True.

Didn't mean to nitpick.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

63. nah. i would have done the same

:)

[LeftinOH]

8. Saudi Arabia= with "friends" like this, who needs enemies? We can hope

that Obama starts to put some distance between us.

[Matariki]

10. I'm waiting for a world-wide boycott South Africa style

Qh yeah, but it's *only* women, and it's 'their culture', so I suppose I'll have to wait a long while...

[Deja Q]

11. In a global economy, one has to respect differences to a certain point.

Disgraceful and despicable in our mindset, it's still that country's culture to punish the woman regardless. :( :(

[Matariki]

16. IT'S A FUCKING HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE!!!!

Sorry about the 'yelling' but it really aggravates me that this needs to be said over and over and over.

The implication in the 'cultural' argument is that women are the property of a culture, as opposed to human beings, and therefore abuse against them is a cultural prerogative.

No one would even think to make such an argument if it were people in some sort of minority group being treated so brutally by their culture.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. yeah, i bet if this happened in india, you woudl be all over it talking about the h-1b visas

but just because we get oil from them and they import our expertise, we now have to respect their attitude towards women?

[Marrah_G]

22. No- I do NOT have to respect a culture that whips and jails a woman for being GANG RAPED.

It is barbaric and inhumane.

[Hippo_Tron]

31. There's also a limit to respecting "cultural" differences

Europeans and Americans used to do this sort of thing in the name of Christianity but we grew out of it a few hundred years ago. Human rights are human rights regardless of cultural differences.

[Sultana]

39. Why must people like you drag Christianity into this?

It's also as if you want to justify it becuz, oh, Christians did/do it too.


:wtf:

[Nye Bevan]

42. It's a DU rule

In any thread critical of Islam there are at least two or three responses along the lines of "this happens here too!" or "Christian fundies would like to do that too!" I think it's a look-at-me-I'm-just-SO-culturally-sensitive kind of thing.

[Sultana]

48. It pisses me off

Like many Christian DUers, I would like not to be put in the same bowl as the Christian fundies.

"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do (Luke 23:34) :D

[Hippo_Tron]

66. I don't think you understood my post

I said that similar things were done in the Christian world... HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO. My point was that you can still respect a region's culture and still have human rights. Christianity is still a large part of culture for many people in the United States and Europe yet we don't have laws anymore that say that a woman is property of her husband.

Paternalism isn't unique to any one religion, society, or culture. It has existed in almost every religion, society, and culture and needs to be changed in those cultures that still have it.

[gollygee]

32. No, I do not have to respect this difference

and it is very sad that anyone could.

[ljm2002]

37. Not acceptable...

...to say that it's just their "culture" to "punish the woman regardless".

Imagine if there were a country where it was just their "culture" to punish the person who was robbed, regardless. Or to punish the person who was beaten, regardless. Or any other absurd example you can come up with.

No, it is absolutely not acceptable to "punish the woman regardless".

To punish a victim just because the victim is a woman is the worst kind of abuse of human rights.

And we should be adamant in refusing to deal with countries who would do such things.

Oh sure I know that pragmatism dictates that we'll not cut off our own oil supply suddenly. But we have leverage, given the amount of money that we send to these countries to buy oil. And we need to get serious about using it.

It's not like this is an isolated incident. Every country has those -- we certainly have our share of heinous actions by law enforecement. But when the system is set up to punish the victim in horrible ways like this, no no no -- it is not acceptable.

[ogneopasno]

51. I don't respect a "culture" that wages war on half of its own population. That's not culture, it's

woman-hating. That's it. It deserves no respect. I have no respect for anyone who believes this kind of treatment is acceptable, morally correct or desirable. It's disgusting. Cultural apologists are not open minded, they are enablers to those who commit these atrocious acts in the first place.

[Deja Q]

9. Forced? Sounds more like a gang rape.

Why is she being punished for something she did not willfully do?

Death before dishonor?!

How about the men who broke the law? It takes two to tango. Or, in this case, six... or is it legal to engage in gang rapes over there?

:(

[Matariki]

14. It's possible that the abduction thing is a story?

Someone on the thread at the OP link said, in very broken English, something like that. That Saudi women who get pregnant sometimes say they were abducted and raped. Probably because the punishment for willing, unmarried sex is much, much worse(?) Beheading was mentioned.

[Marrah_G]

26. No- in many places being raped is a crime.

According to some cultures unless there are 4 men willing to say they witnessed the rape, then it is considered adultry and not rape.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

46. UH...

Even if she lied about the rape aspect of how she got pregnant - Lied because she was scared they would kill her for having sex, do you think the fuckers are within their rights to torture her and imprison her? Culture? B.S. it is WRONG.

A culture that subjects their people to torture, imprisonment or death for having sex is TERRIBLE. PERIOD. It is repressive, barbaric and disgusting.

[Marrah_G]

25. She is being punished for being gang-raped.

You may be shocked at how many places in the world women are blamed both socially and legally for being held down while men force whatever is handy inside them.

In many places women are killed for it. Sometimes they are just killed as payment for something someone else did.

Careful though, once you start to delve into the plight of women in the world you may come away with a very different attitude.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. Can we or another nation offer her political asylum?

I'd like to think we could, or, at the very least, that we could take her in once her baby is born.

[Sultana]

40. It would the best thing, that poor girl is scarred for life

She is/will be shamed for something that wasn't her fault.

:(

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. the saudi treatment of women is truly sickening

[Matariki]

21. I suppose it's not just women - it's stupid fundementalism

"Earlier this year, in May 2008, a university professor in Saudi Arabia was sentenced to 1,500 lashes and eight months imprisonment. His crime? He met with a woman who is not a family member in a café. Reports indicate a possibility that he might have been framed because he had a fight with one of his religious students."

http://www.kuwaittimes.net/read_news.php?newsid=NTQ3OTkwNTE4

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. all suffer but women suffer the most. (as do gays)

[truebrit71]

19. Good thing they are our allies...

:puke: :sarcasm:

[Marrah_G]

20. It should read "Girl gets a year in jail, 100 lashes for being GANG-RAPED"

I think people read over the part where it says "forced sexual intercourse" by him and four of his friends.

[Matariki]

23. Yes, people in the thread at the link point that out

the author says he was using the court document verbatim.

[Marrah_G]

27. That is because many of these places do not consider it rape without 4 male witnesses

Sharia Law.

[JitterbugPerfume]

28. yet there are some right here in the USA

who say women who are raped "asked for it" Fundamentalists of all stripes look at women as objects put on earth by god for men to use and it is her own fault.

women are taught in church to submit to their husbands and that taking a beating for "disrespecting " him is ok!

[Marrah_G]

30. There is a difference- Those people views are not law

Yes- We have extremists in this country, but women have rights here. To compare it in any way to what women suffer outside this country is intolerable.

When is the last time a woman was legally executed for being raped here?

[JitterbugPerfume]

33. you are correct

but still mysogeny is a dangerous thing for women wherever it exists.

There is no comparison but the difference is only in degree

[Marrah_G]

34. Yes- I agree !

I just get frustrated sometimes. Anytime the horrific conditions of women in some part of the world is brought up, some says " but we have nasty fundies too" as if to say that somehow makes it less horrific.

I'm glad you weren't saying that.

My heart breaks for my sisters around the world. No matter how difficult my life is, it is nothing compared to the hell they live. I don't think I would have the internal strength to survive what they survive.

[JitterbugPerfume]

35. no Marrah

I would never say that it is the same.

[Marrah_G]

60. .

:hug:

[ismnotwasm]

36. So were the four of the witnesses described in the Koran

required as accusers her rapists? A stomach wrenching thought.

24:4 And those who accuse honourable women but bring not four witnesses, scourge them (with) eighty stripes and never (afterward) accept their testimony - They indeed are evil-doers -

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/24/index.htm#4

Or is the fact of rape itself enough to "dishonor" her? Her fault for getting in the car? I really despise patriarchal religions.

[Nye Bevan]

38. What a stupid, barbaric religion

No cultural sensitivity from me.

Islam:
Stone women to death for adultery;
Beat women who get raped;
Men get 72 virgins in the after-life for committing mass-murder against the Great Satan;
Amputate the hands of thieves;
Women cannot drive;
etc.

Christianity:
love your neighbor as yourself;
let he who is without sin cast the first stone;
Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you;
Turn the other cheek;
Women *can* drive.

Advantage Christianity, I think.

[Baikonour]

43. Religion itself is the problem, not just Islam.

Christianity allows Islam to exist, er go Christianity is just as much to blame.

[Sultana]

45. WUT?

:wtf: :crazy:

[Baikonour]

52. What do you mean "wut"?

One religion's existence is the reason for another's existence. Not to mention the Abrahamic link between Islam and Christianity.

Point is, you can't call one crazy without calling the other just as batshit crazy too.

[Sultana]

55. You might want to blame Judaism first

Judaism and Islam have more stuff in common (in regards to their respective Holy books) than Islam and Christianity.

I get annoyed when some Muslims ask me why the Prophet Mohammed isn't mentioned in the Bible. *shakes head*

[Baikonour]

57. Judaism is just as ridiculous and harmful, no doubt.

I'm an equal-opportunity atheist, don't worry. :P

[Sultana]

61. Good

:D

[Dr. Strange]

69. Allows?

You think Christians should determine what Muslims can do and say?
Do you think the United States should "allow Islam to exist?" If not, what do you propose we do?

Please allow four minutes before you answer--the popcorn's going into the microwave as we speak.

[Sultana]

44. Si

But it's only SA that doesn't allow women to drive.

Another good thing about Christianity is that the fundies aren't as scary as Muslim fundies. But all fundies suck!

:hide:

[Baikonour]

53. No, the male fundies just treat children inappropriately.

They ARE just as scary. If not scarier.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

59. this is a joke of a post. you took the worse quotes from one religion

and pitted against the best of the other.

its highly dishonest.

[ismnotwasm]

65. No

That's bullshit. Christianity is equally misogynist. If we were ruled by Christan law as Saudi Arabia is by Islamic law, women would get much the same treatment. In fact they did.

In America, we generally just blame women for rape instead of prosecuting them by law.

You can go from
From genesis Genesis 19
19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. (Lot Offering his daughters to be gang raped. Also one of the stories used to condemn homosexuality. Later, God turns Lots wife into a pillar of salt)

To Revelation
14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

There is much worse all through the bible.

"Kind and merciful" is used very often to describe Allah (God) in the Quran. As well frequent directives to perform acts of charity and kindness.

[Nye Bevan]

68. Jesus Christ never endorsed Genesis or Revelation

So nothing in those two books is relevant to the concept of Christianity.

[ismnotwasm]

72. Jesus was dead n/t

[Baikonour]

41. Precisely why these "people" cannot have nukes.

[tjwash]

64. Yeah...the people that slice open others genitals in secret torture camps need 'em more.

Not to mention...we already know how to use them.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

74. these people who bomb other countries preemptively? torture people in prison camps?

all the while claiming god and democracy is on their side?

yeah, these people sound scary

[ogneopasno]

50. Treating half of the population like this is not "culture." It's woman-hating, pure and simple.

And this wasn't adultery. It was RAPE. That poor woman.

[wroberts189]

56. Were not most of the hijackers Saudi? ..oh never mind. eom

[Baikonour]

58. Shhhh. American Idol is on.

[dcsmart]

70. well, there you have it...makes republicans look good n/t

[backscatter712]

71. That's fucked up.

People wonder why the rest of the world thinks Saudi Arabia is a shithole...