Phoenix, Arizona has become the kidnapping capital of America

[question everything]

ABC had a special report about that. Mostly involved drug dealers from Mexico who take their drug wars across the border. Also in California.

Scary.

[Hoopla Phil]

1. It will only get worse and spread farther out.

I don't believe the Fed has the stones to do anything that will make a substantive difference.

[napoleon_in_rags]

2. The situation in Mexico is a mess.

The cartels are becoming a major force. Of course this is overflowing, but really Mexico needs a dramatic solution, they are actually the ones suffering most here.

[question everything]

3. Right. Judges and police officers are the first to be targeted

or their families.

They almost need a martial law to start sorting through people and locations.

[napoleon_in_rags]

8. Or something. I don't have good info, but I wonder how much of it is the green stuff...

...and how much of it is coke and so on. Could a decriminalization of some marijuana growth (alone) decentralize the production and bleed money from the cartels, allowing the anti drug forces to focus on the big players?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. Time to legalize.

[Alexander]

5. Not to worry. Sheriff Joe will keep us all safe!

:sarcasm:

Sadly, most voters here actually feel that way, and most people here couldn't even explain what the word "sarcasm" means.

Arizona: Dumbest state in the country, hands down.

[DesertFlower]

9. i'm in phoenix.

no matter how far sheriff joe goes (and he's gone way too far) he was always be re-elected. the only way we'll get rid of him is if he dies or becomes disabled.

[Alexander]

10. It says a lot about the intelligence level of people here.

Of course, being in Phoenix, I'm sure you knew that most of the people here have the IQ of mustard.

[galileoreloaded]

11. Nah, lived in South Carlolina for a year recently, they win vs. AZ. Trust me. N/T

[Alexander]

12. Is that supposed to be comforting?

[DesertFlower]

18. at least phoenix is

beautiful. i've been here 19 years and i'm still amazed at the beauty. i saw no beauty in S.C. my family lived in greenville.

[Alexander]

20. Utah is beautiful too, but I couldn't handle all the batshit religious crazies.

Yes, the beauty of the Sonoran desert is slightly distracting, and for about 5 seconds during a sunset I will forget about the fact that I'm surrounded and governed by people who are mostly idiots.

[DesertFlower]

22. the beauty brought me here.

i guess that's what keeps me here along with the weather. i hate the cold. i'm freezing now. anything under 75 is too cold for me.

our original plan was to relocate to florida (miami, ft. lauderdale area), but we came here on a business trip and fell in love with it.

we've got a really nice custom home on 2-1/2 acres on the side of a mountain. our neighbors are coyotes, javelina, bunnies, etc. hubby is busy with work and i have chronic fatigue sydrome. if my health was better i would get involved with the democratic party here.

things are changing. we have to drive down to the bottom of the mountain to get our mail. there are a few old timers that live down there. real cowboy types. on election day when i was getting my mail, i saw one of these guys. i said "what do you think of a possible president obama"? he hesitated for a moment and then replied "i've been a republican my entire life but i voted for obama. i think he will do great things for the country". i drove away with a big smile on my face. obama lost arizona, but not by as much as i thought he would.

[Alexander]

23. Arizona has scenic beauty, but just as much human ugliness, if not more so.

I just wish so many trashy idiots didn't all choose to move to the same place and ruin a perfectly good view of the desert.

[DesertFlower]

27. i know what you mean.

i recently had an experience on facebook. i joined a few months ago and noticed that my neighbor (1/4 mile up the road, lol) was on. we've always gotten along. we went to his house for a party a few years ago. never knew his politics. he didn't know mine. anyway, i asked him to be my friend. turns out his profile says "slightly to the right of attila the hun". mine, of course, is democrat, atheist and i belong to all these liberal organizations. most of my "friends" are liberals. to make a long story short, we went back and forth last week about politics. then he wrote on the home page. "i'm disgusted with you bleeding heart liberals who want to turn this country socialist. i shed blood for this country. why don't you leave and move to russia." i had to refrain from writing something nasty, but i didn't want to bring myself to his level. i sent him a PM and told him i was dropping him as my friend and that i wished him well. he went nuts. started sending me PMs calling me stupid, etc. i told him that intelligent people can have a discussion without personal attacks. he ranted on again saying that's why he was leaving the country because of people like me.

when i deleted him as my friend, his remark was also deleted, but not before my granddaughter saw it. she was shocked that he would write something like that on facebook.

my husband blocked him from sending me e-mails and i have to find a way to block him from sending me PMs on facebook. my husband thinks he's "unhinged".

[Alexander]

28. That's horrible. I am so sorry you had to deal with that.

Hopefully your granddaughter wasn't too bothered by his comment.

Unfortunately, this is the result of the state not taking care of its people when it comes to education or mental health.

You get angry, violent, ignorant people who can't have intelligent conversations, and they take their hatred out on people who did nothing wrong.

By the way, did you find it as ironic as I did that after asking you to "move to russia", it turned out he was the one who was planning on leaving the country all along? Some days I wish everyone took psychology in high school, so more people would know about the concept of projection.

[DesertFlower]

29. thank you. my granddaughter is an adult.

the man comes from NH. he's educated and affluent -- not rich, but affluent. he's a fan of sarah palin which i don't understand. i'm don't like dick cheney, but on 9/11 i felt secure knowing that he was in charge when bush was in hiding. he had to make the decision whether or not to shoot down a plane. can you imagine palin?

yes. it is ironic. i don't know where he plans on going. every industrialized country has socialized medicine which he is against. conservatives are always against social programs, but none of them turns down their social security check or medicare and they're first in line at the unemployment office when they lose their jobs. go figure. sometimes i think our brains are wired differently.

[DesertFlower]

16. i agree.

my sister lived there for 22 years.

[DesertFlower]

15. i'm surrounded by

right wingers. i'm originally from new york city so it's difficult.

[Alexander]

19. Arizona just doesn't value education.

Look at the spending cuts in the state - almost all of them are for education.

Look at how the state is 49th out of 50 states in public education spending.

Look at the joke that is Arizona State University.

Hell, Jan Brewer not only doesn't have a college degree, she never took a single college class.

I'm from Connecticut, not too far from New York City. The stupidity and ignorance here is unbelievable and really just sad.

[bridgit]

6. If it's location, location, location then Phoenix is phucked. When you pull back on MapQuest

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Phoenix&state=AZ&country=US&latitude=33.448299&longitude=-112.073303&geocode=CITY you can see that for people with intent it is situated within a talon's grasp of some intense crossfire activity. LA gangs have been running into the area for some time, causing criminal mischiefs, and racing back to their hoods and chop-shops and now this :(

[marybourg]

21. Ironically, the photo you're using as an avatar ,"the Pillars of Creation"

was taken by Jeff Hester, a professor at ASU in the Phoenix Metro area using the Hubble Telescope. (I have one signed by him). So I think there're peaks and valleys in Phoenix and everywhere

[bridgit]

24. No doubt, it isn't the land or nature's fault; it's the people that interface with them...

Even Arizona is building up. Not far from Prescott; my husband has been visiting Arcosanti since they broke ground http://www.arcosanti.org Some things do change, some for the worse :( Some remain unchanged and I say that's just fine. Cool story on the Hubble pic Love Hubble!! That's for the remembrance :)

[EFerrari]

7. If this is a report from ABC, you better go back and check out their "facts".n/t

[question everything]

25. They had actual phone calls from someone scared to death to his wife

begging her to give money; they had actual photos of victims gagged and tied, and they had someone who was released - an illegal one.

I don't know what your definition of an investigative report is, but accompanying a report with photos and messages is.. unless you put on your tinfoil cap to claim that everything was staged..

[EFerrari]

32. Here is an article from Reuters, 10/08

Criminals targeted in U.S. "kidnap capital"
Wed Oct 8, 2008 2:57pm EDT
By Tim Gaynor

PHOENIX (Reuters) - The criminal underworld in the sun-baked Arizona capital of Phoenix has long enjoyed the hot money profits from illicit smuggling of drugs and people over the border from Mexico.

But now its members are living in fear as they are stalked by kidnappers after their proceeds, authorities say.

Police in the desert city say specialized kidnap rings are snatching suspected criminals and their families from their homes, running them off the roads and even grabbing them at shopping malls in a spiraling spate of abductions.

"Phoenix is ground zero for illegal narcotics smuggling and illegal human smuggling in the United States," said Phil Roberts, a Phoenix Police Department detective.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE4979VW20081008

Another one from this week at LA Times:

Phoenix, kidnap-for-ransom capital

By Sam Quinones
7:46 PM PST, February 11, 2009
Reporting from Phoenix -- In broad daylight one January afternoon, on a street of ranch-style houses with kidney-shaped swimming pools, Juan Francisco Perez-Torres was kidnapped in front of his wife, daughter and three neighbors.

Two men with a gun grabbed the 34-year-old from his van and dragged him 50 yards to a waiting SUV. His wife threw rocks at the car, then gave chase in her own SUV. Neighbors in northwest Phoenix called police. Yet when police found her later, she at first denied there was a problem.

On the phone later, as detectives listened in, kidnappers said he'd stolen someone's marijuana.

But police were used to conflicting story lines by now. It was Phoenix, after all: More ransom kidnappings happen here than in any other town in America, according to local and federal law enforcement authorities. Most every victim and suspect is connected to the drug-smuggling world, usually tracing back to the western Mexican state of Sinaloa, Phoenix police report.Arizona has become the new drug gateway into the United States. Roughly half of all marijuana seized along the U.S.-Mexico border was taken on Arizona's 370-mile border with Mexico.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-drug-kidnappings12-2009feb12,0,1264800.story?track=rss

The claim and the stats are from the Phoenix Police Department.

[EmilyAnne]

13. Crazy. I just cancelled my annual trip to Oaxaca City because my husband has flat out refused to go

this time. We always have to spend at least two nights in Mexico City before catching a bus and he is convinced that it is much more dangerous their than we are being told.
I hate being scared, but I respect his fears. I hope, for the sake of the Mexican people, that he's wrong.

Spreading into the US is terrifying. I hope they have excerpts of this show on the website.

[a la izquierda]

34. Here's the deal...

I live in Guadalajara part time (currently). I do not have any problems. I went to Mexico City for two weeks. No problems. I travel into the countryside. Again, no problems. I'm a 5' tall, tiny female and if anyone wanted to mess with me, they very easily could. Most people mind their own business and go about their day.

There is ridiculous violence and it is in certain parts of the country. Oaxaca, believe it or not, is pretty calm at the moment. Mexico City is as sketchy as ever. Mexicans are sick of this, to the point where the debate over the death penalty has come up once again.

I'm planning a backpacking trip through Mexico this summer with my husband. I guess I'm used to the reports, but I'm not too concerned about it.

[Initech]

14. Tijuana is fuckin' nuts right now.

Kidnappings. murders, you name it. I wouldn't set foot in there right now for a million bucks. :scared:

[DesertFlower]

17. neither would i. nt

[question everything]

26. Nor I. And we used to live in SoCal and would go to Tijuana

several times a year.

[ConcernedCanuk]

30. That bad? - heck I lived in SanDee for 14 months, 79-80 - TJ was a regular booze cruise

.
.
.

Times change I guess

(sigh)

[Initech]

31. Some of the shit I've been hearing about TJ is absolutely insane.

It used to be cool but they've been taken over by a rather ruthless and fuckin' crazy group of criminals that make the Bush administration look like saints by comparison. :yoiks:

[EFerrari]

33. My mom and used to go there for "girls" weekends and stay in nice hotels

and go to good restaurants. There were world class golf courses. I wouldn't go there for anything right now. :(

[Soylent Brice]

35. i like the reason they give why it's gotten so much worse...

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6848672&page=1

Washington Too Concerned With al Qaeda Terrorists to Care, Officials Say

color me shocked!!