Fuck Leahy's Plan for Immunity !

[garybeck]

Leahy wants to give immunity to criminals
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Leahy_Truth_commission_may_be_only_0211.html
(Ignore the misleading headline on the page)


FACT: Leahy's "truth commission" would prevent prosecutions of people who committed war crimes, spied on americansw, and committed treason.

Leahy is my senator. He is wrong on this.

his explanation is completely illogical. does this make any sense to you:

"I think because of the fact it's very, very public and the way they find out about it, it makes it very clear to the next person, you try the same thing, you are going to be found out, you are going to be prosecuted," Leahy said.

does this make any fucking sense at all? we let them go now, and people in the future will have fear of being prosecuted? That's like black is white, up is down!

What is the matter with this guy? I thought he was smart. Or is he just taking us for a fool?

the logical result, Mr. Leahy, if you grant immunity now, is that people in the future will see that they GOT AWAY WITH IT THIS TIME. So where is the logic that someone in the future will look back at your truth commission and think, "Oh they're going to bust my ass and I'm going to rot in jail if I break the law" No, Mr. Leahy, that's NOT what they're going to think when they look back on your pony show. They're going to think, "I can do whatever the hell I want to. The worst thing that can happen is I get a free plane ticket to DC, I have to go on TV and admit i made a mistake, and then I'll probably get my own radio talk show. And endorsements. Ahh... endorsements!"

THAT, Mr. Leahy, is the message you are going to send to possible criminals in the future.

How you think your commission is going to send a message that they will go to jail when you are offering immunity, is beyond reason and completely illogical.

Beyond just future criminals, you are sending a message to US, the american people, that powerful people are above the law. Just by SUGGESTING this commission is a good thing, you have already don it. If I go on TV and admit I was speeding, can I throw my speeding ticket in the trash? No, I can't. Because we live in a nation of LAWS, Mr. Leahy, and when people BREAK these laws they are supposed to go to JAIL. I thought you knew that, being a lawyer and all, but I guess not.

We didn't need immunity for the telecom companies and we don't need it for the bush administration.

So take your stack of "Get out of jail free cards" you're so eager to hand out and stick them in the shredder, where I'm sure Cheney and Bushco put most of the evidence anyway. But don't embarass me and my state by setting up a process to slap serious criminals on the wrist and let them walk.

You say you will prevent the repeat of these crimes in the future, but in fact, you know and logic dictates, this will only encourage it in the future.

Fuck your immunity plan, Mr. Leahy!

[Oak2004]

1. The flaw in a "Truth and Reconciliation" commission is that the worst crimes are not ours to

forgive.

They were committed against citizens of other nations, and against other nations. Just as I can't forgive you for harm inflicted on a third party, we cannot forgive Americans for crimes inflicted upon the citizens of the world. If we try to do so, the international rage we --legitimately -- stir up against us will haunt this country for generations.

[Duer 157099]

2. Well that's what I think too

I was yelling at the teevee when he was on with Rachel last night, pretty much saying the same things you said here.

I even flipped him the bird, and I've never done that to him before!

Yeah, I'm pissed too.

[catnhatnh]

3. I think a lot is not being said

Problem one was "impeachment is off the table" from Pelosi and problems rolled on from there. Now we have to turn a 180 without appearing to do so. Obama cannot say "let the (largest in history) prosecutions (of war criminals and treason) begin now...So he garbles about moving forward while saying no one is above the law...Holder talked about "not being inclined to" while ruling out nothing and Leahy started talking about his commission.

I think basically what you have are people waiting to put crimes on the record before they announce "HOLY SHIT-this is insane-THEY WERE MOBSTERS-we must prosecute".

For the commission and the "free pass" I posted this earlier:

1.War crimes are excluded. No exceptions. None involved were "patriots" or "just trying to do their jobs". Those executed after WW2 faced unprecedented punishment for crimes defined after the fact exactly because the acts should have "outraged the conscience". We have treaties and international obligations. Those engaged either directly by acts or indirectly by directing policy should have refused EITHER AS AN ACT OF CONSCIENCE or from knowledge of law.

2.Failure to testify before the committee or perjury before the committee must result in prosecution both for the perjury or failure to testify as well as all underlying crimes to the full extent of the law.No further immunity may be offered.

3.Those who fully testify before the committee and make open admissions of felonies shall be immune from prosecution. On completion of testimony they shall be awarded the status of "discharged felon". Any cash gains are forfeit. They may not serve in a government post either elective or payed or appointed for life. Any pensions or benefits are forfeit. Failure to report discharged felony to an employer or perspective employer shall be a felony and cause for mandatory prosecution. Any holding attorney's license are disbarred for life from every state. They may not possess firearms or vote.

4.Discharged felons may not be employed in firms which hold government contracts or that lobby the government.

5.The above provisions not withstanding on establishment of the Commission there shall be a 10 day amnesty period for those who witnessed abuses and themselves have committed no felonies. They shall be awarded limited whistle-blower status. Their testimony will be taken under oath and their maximum punishment shall be simple discharge from employment without prejudice. Under no circumstance may they gain any other benefit.

That's about it. They want a free pass-that's as far as I'm willing to go. The commission should exist for no more than one year and the information gained turned over to the DOJ for prosecutions. The Commission should post a full account of all testimony online. And then Truth and Reconciliation Committees should be made illegal for the next hundred years.


No reason this could not be part of a commission and they would start from the bottom. Long before they took testimony and gave immunity to an aid to Karl Rove or Dick Cheney enough would be on record for DOJ convictions and the rank and file would have accepted a stake thru the heart to prevent them from reappearing in government in 30 years...

[omega minimo]

4. "his explanation is completely illogical. does this make any sense to you:"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5032918&mesg_id=5034008

[garybeck]

5. I guess not !

Argh! I get the feeling he's blatantly BULLSHITTING US.

[woodwrite]

6. I doubt a "truth commission" would hear the whole truth

Two reasons for that. The "whole truth" would make it impossible NOT to proceed with indictments, prosecutions, etc. without making a complete mockery of Constitutional law and the judicial system,... the double standard of "above the law" versus the rest of us would be showcased for (or thrown in the face of) the population at large. (picture the peasants with their pitchforks, here)

And also, binding court proceedings could scarcely proceed without one of the defendents rolling over on someone who wishes very much for this not to happen, and is in a unique position to petition the president and the government in a way not available to the rest of us.

[EFerrari]

9. When did criminal proceedings attempt to find the "whole truth"?

That's an impossible standard and that's exactly where this fake conversation Leahy is having with himself stinks.

Criminal charges are either proved or they're not.

[orleans]

7. here's the hysterical part:

"you are going to be found out, you are going to be prosecuted,"

meaning, the next time it happens there will be someone there with balls big enough to actually prosecute--but not me because i ain't got 'em

[EFerrari]

8. Why do people keep saying we need to know "the truth"?

That's just obfuscating. We know a great deal of the truth. We know he lied us into war. We know he tortured people. We know he spied on us illegally.

We already know those things. To keep repeating that we don't is bullshit.

[ixion]

10. Politicians and corporate executives get immunity, the rest of us

get detention at one of the 188 detention centers built around North America and paid for with our tax dollars.