Reports from Venezuela from The Economist

[sabbat hunter]

Excellent articles, very insightful.

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13061513


http://www.economist.com/world/americas/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13061800


They basically say that he has done some good, crime is sky high in Venezuela and has gone up under Chavez's watch. Additionally, inflation is in the mid double digits right now, which is hurting the poor of the country, and that his reliance on oil to support the social programs is coming back to bite him in the ass with prices currently hovering around $40 per barrel. He relies on oil for 90% of the exports from Venezuela, much higher than before he took office.

[w4rma]

1. Bush stopped trade with Venezuela for no other reason than a "socialist" was in office.

And I would bet that many of those figures are higher, because they are actually being reported correctly, now.

[sabbat hunter]

2. did you read the articles

they are quite insightful.

[w4rma]

3. The details of the articles are good for Chavez. Those details are buried in spin. (nt)

[sabbat hunter]

5. High inflation

and 15k murdered are not exactly good details.

While Chavez has done some good for Venezuela, there has been a lot of problems as a result/during his regime as well.

[Truth2Tell]

4. The anti-Chavez propaganda efforts of The Economist

may not be as transparent and crude as the New York Times or the Fred Hyatt WaPo, but be advised they are equally dishonest.

The Economist has been at the vanguard of the international effort to belittle the revolution in Venezuela.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2005/10/hugo-chavez-and-his-bolivarian-revolution">Mother Jones describes the Economist's coverage of Venezuela as an effort to paint Chavez as "wacky utopian who sooner or later will run the Venezuelan economy into the ground." Their efforts in this regard have been ceaseless.

There may well be insights in these articles, just be aware of their extreme right/Chicago School agenda and always seek multiple sources.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

6. The editors of The Economist are British Thatcher-style conservatives

This means that they love "free" trade and everything else that the corporatists love. They once had a special issue on "free" trade in which they touted it as the cure for everything but the common cold, even though they admitted in various places that "free" trade would work only if a lot of impossible conditions being met, such as all nations having democratically elected governments that respect human rights.

They will naturally be down on anyone who is opposed to corporatist ideology.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

8. Not exactly. They're more libertarian than conservative.

They're generally in favour of gay rights and drug legalisation, from what I've seen. But certainly they're economically very right wing.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

9. British conservatives tend to lack the Puritanical streak that

afflicts American conservatives, as you might expect in a highly secularized country like the UK.

I used to subscribe to The Economist, because it really covers the whole world, which was very handy when I needed to know the correct Latin-alphabet spellings of Sri Lankan finance ministers and Burmese political activists and Tanzanian directors of NGOs when translating papers on international relations from Japanese.

However, they had that issue on "free" trade just before my subscription ran out and just before I was going to move to a new address anyway, so I just let the subscription lapse.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

13. Not so much back in Thatcher's day, although possibly still less so than the US.

The Tories range from roughly the centre of the Republicans to the right wing of the Democrats; back in Thatcher's day a lot more of the social conservatives were more influential, and they passed various laws like the infamous Section 28.

It's certainly true that social conservatism isn't nearly as big a problem here as in the US, though.

[sabbat hunter]

7. ah yes propoganda

that must be it. We should just ignore 15k murders in 2008 (and that is just the official number) and 50% inflation, along with other crimes that are out of control.
But Chavez is a saint right?

[Truth2Tell]

15. The murder stat is all relative

we're talking about the developing world here, and many factors that really don't reflect anything at all about Chavez or the socialist revolution. If that's the best ammunition you or The Economist have to use against that movement then I'd say they don't have much to worry about.

And 50% inflation is bogus. It's closer to 30% (very very big difference) and, while crappy, that's historically low for VZ and for Latin America. It's a tad higher than last year, but lower than every other year since 1990.

see here: http://www.latin-focus.com/latinfocus/countries/venezuela/vencpi.htm

Propaganda is as propaganda does.

Keep spreading your right-wing garbage. Just don't expect everyone around here to swallow it.

[sabbat hunter]

23. The link you provided

showed the inflation rate for 2007 not 2008 (it went up higher in 2008).

and with a population of 28,199,822 as of feb 08, the per capita murder rate is 1 per every 1800 people, an extremely high number.(in fact one of the highest in the world per capita)

And if you think I am right wing, then obviously you do not know me at all.

[Occam Bandage]

12. Yes, seek multiple sources. Unfortunately, it seems

you denounce every source you dislike, from the Times to the Post to the Economist (being perhaps the three best examples of journalism available at American newsstands) as "propaganda," leaving as your example of unbiased reporting a magazine that prides itself on its strong liberal bias.

[Truth2Tell]

14. I dislike the souces I denounce for sound reasons.

If you find those publications to be the "three best examples of American journalism available" then you really need to get out more.

All three of those publications have an opposing editorial ideology as extreme as Mother Jones. The difference is that Mother Jones is honest about theirs. (to be fair, The Economist is honest about theirs too.)

[EFerrari]

17. The Times and the Post just got spanked by FAIR for their bullshit

on Venezuela in the February report. If that's the best we have, we're screwed.

[Dreamer Tatum]

10. You can always tell the economics dunces from responses in these threads

You don't have to love or hate Chavez to understand that he has an inflation problem and a finance problem,
each of which could be mitigated by a return to $125/bbl oil via inflows of hard currency. He can't
print his way out of inflation, because he already has it, and he can't rely on direct foreign investment
because he's scared it away or crowded it out.

But of course to many, we did this to Venezuela. Exactly how we did it involves a great deal of hand-waving
and conspiracy theories pasted over the enormous gaps in logic, but we did it. :eyes:

[Occam Bandage]

11. Correct. According to Chavez, and according to his defenders,

any and all problems with Venezuela are caused either by "the oligarchs" or America. Every dictator has his scapegoats, and Chavez has learned that is an effective technique indeed.

[Truth2Tell]

16. Are you still calling Chavez a "dictator?"

Your ignorance is uncurable.

[Occam Bandage]

22. No. I am saying that Chavez uses many techniques that dictators do.

There's quite a difference.

[Danger Mouse]

18. Hugo Chavez is like Instant Flamewar.

[EFerrari]

19. Right wing trash.

"Ironically, the Ateneo provided Mr Chávez with a platform when he entered politics after leading an unsuccessful military coup against a democratic government in the 1990s. The incident highlights his regime’s increasingly authoritarian bent. “The first thing totalitarian regimes do is to attack institutions where different schools of thought and ideologies come together,” said Carmen Ramia, the Ateneo’s director. Hitherto, to describe Mr Chávez as “totalitarian” has been inaccurate. Will that remain the case?"

Will Snidely Whiplash shave? Will Nell be freed from the railroad track?

lol

You can't be serious.

[ConsAreLiars]

20. Uhh, don't look now, but the bias is showing

Inflation is generally at an average or below average level. The Economist has an agenda and support base very different than Chavez, and when you ally yourself with those who support the Transnationals and repeat their spin, at least admit that you are a partisan. I certainly am a partisan, but I believe truth is on the side of the people,not the Corporatists and their agents.

See the graph and numbers on this page if you actually care about the facts: http://www.indexmundi.com/venezuela/inflation_rate_(consumer_prices).html

[Monk06]

21. If you believe the Economis than you also think Investor Business Daily is

a legitimate news source and USAID is an independent
NGO promoting economic development in the third world.

In the sixties the Russians and Cubans accused the Peace
Corps of being a CIA front. Guess what, it was.