Does Harry S Truman deserve to be ranked as the fifth best president ever?

[WI_DEM]

To say the least the Truman Administration was a tumultuous time in our nation's history. For better or for worse here are some of the things that happened in that time:

Truman ended WW II in the Pacific by using the Atomic Bomb. This has become a very controversial decision. Supporters of Truman's decision to use the bomb argue that it saved hundreds of thousands of lives that would have been lost in an invasion of mainland Japan. Eleanor Roosevelt spoke in support of this view in 1954, saying that Truman had "made the only decision he could," and the bomb's use was necessary "to avoid tremendous sacrifice of American lives."<[br />
However, Others, including historian Gar Alperovitz, have argued that the use of nuclear weapons was unnecessary and inherently immoral.

The Marshall Plan rebuilding of Europe, has long been recognized as one of the great humanitarian accomplishments of the 20th Century.

Truman desegregated the US Armed Forces through Executive Action

He proposed the first modern Civil Rights Act

Truman initiated the Berlin Air lift

Truman created NATO

Truman is the father of the CIA and National Security Council

Truman authored "The Truman Doctrine" which formalized the policy of containment of communism.

He initiated loyalty oaths in the federal government which removed "alleged communists" This program obviously hurt innocent people, and besides even if some people were communists it wasn't against the law to belong to the Communist Party at the time.

He recognized the state of Israel

When N. Korea invaded the South, Truman and other nations belonging to the United Nations began a "police action" which eventually led to over 54,000 American lives lost.

However, Truman steadfastly refused to widen the war to include China, against the advice of Gen. MacArthur, who Truman fired for insubordination:
"I fired him because he wouldn't respect the authority of the President... I didn't fire him because he was a dumb son of a bitch, although he was, but that's not against the law for generals. If it was, half to three-quarters of them would be in jail."
—Harry S. Truman, quoted in Time magazine

[gratuitous]

1. The Truman administration was definitely a mixed bag

Sixth best? I don't think so, and I'd bet that's as good as could be hoped for. Truman will probably move down the list as the years go by.

[WI_DEM]

3. But the thing is his ranking has steadily climbed since the 1970's, this isn't a new

phenomenon.

[gratuitous]

8. I think Truman's peaked

The infatuation with the "Give 'em hell, Harry" style has had its day, but I think that fad will pass (fads move a lot slower in the world of history, but they have fads nonetheless). A present ranking of sixth overlooks a lot of insidious little things that went on during Truman's administration, a couple of which your original post points out. The loyalty oath nonsense, and Truman's failure to speak out against the Red Scare that was ratcheting up in the late 1940s, were two very big marks against him, and we're still sorting out the impacts 60 years later.

Where will he land and stay? I think top 10 may be a bit generous, but top 15 would be wholly appropriate; somewhere around 11 or so, is my uninformed amateur opinion.

[havocmom]

2. Granddad would have said no, he was #1. And Granddad loved FDR too.

Gramps said he once saw Truman while he was out fishing on a small lake. Gramps was in a little row boat fishing. Harry was just out for a walk on the lake. ;)

[izquierdista]

4. No

He started up the Cold War with one of our Allies before the ink was even dry on the Japanese surrender. He let the anti-Communists run with his Truman Doctrine and set the stage for the U.S. denying support to any nationalist movement on the grounds that they were Communist. He allowed the defeated European colonialists to re-establish their oppressive regimes at a time when they should have been told no. OK, so he created NATO and the CIA. Judging for what they have done in the last 60 years, that would be, on balance, a negative.

The U.S. would have been MUCH better off if FDR had kept Henry Wallace on as VP in 1944.

[T Wolf]

5. He was not real bad, but nowhere near the top-five...

Truman ended WW II in the Pacific by using the Atomic Bomb.
NOT good.

The Marshall Plan
Good.

desegregated the US Armed Forces through Executive Action
Good.

He proposed the first modern Civil Rights Act
Good.

Berlin Air lift
Just anti-Russian bullshit.

NATO
More anti-Russian bullshit.

father of the CIA and National Security Council
NOT good.

"The Truman Doctrine" which formalized the policy of containment of communism.
NOT good.

loyalty oaths in the federal government
NOT good.

He recognized the state of Israel
NOT good. We are still suffering the fallout.

Korea War
Just anti-communist bullshit.

refused to widen the war to China
Just common sense.

[Fountain79]

10. Seriously?

Berlin Air lift
Just anti-Russian bullshit.

Yes it would have been much better to have conceded control over to Stalin...:sarcasm:

[Occam Bandage]

12. The United States should definitely allow

foreign nations to annex allied ones through starvation of civilians. That's the type of thing we should definitely stand behind.

[Occam Bandage]

11. You lost me at "Berlin Airlift: anti-Russian bullshit."

[Ishoutandscream2]

6. Definitely top 10

I was glad, and quite frankly a little shocked, to see Truman move up to the top 5. Some of the things you listed made him unpopular by many, but of course I loved the majority of his moves. His approval ratings were in the toilet when he left office, so I'm glad historians are overlooking that.

[Smarmie Doofus]

7. Henry Wallace would have been infinitely better.

The progressive things that Truman accomplished were achieved because that's what MOST of the country was demanding at that time. And Truman and his braintrust were good politicians. Remember, he was tapped at the 1944 convention because he appealled to Dixiecrats and big-city bosses; NOT because he had established any kind of progressive credentials. The segregationists and the militarists wanted Wallace out in the WORST way as they knew FDR would probably not live. Truman was more than palatable as he was a big-city machine creature from a Jim Crow state who avoided wave-making. More palatable than other firebreathers such as Byrne, (SC) and others.

I doubt very much that had Wallace been president that the A bomb would have been dropped. I doubt very much that the US would have had to invade japan to get them to surrender. I doubt very much that there would have been a korean and a Vietnam War.


Maybe something WORSE would have happened; I doubt it very much. ( Although I would agree that it would probably have been harder for Wallace to win reeelection in 48 than Truman.)

HST: media darling. Highly overrated.

[kentuck]

9. He had the balls to drop the bomb...

That is why he is rated so high. Americans eat that shit up.

[Occam Bandage]

13. Yes, I think he should be, and will probably settle at least in the top 10.

As for Korea? A brief look at the conditions of both North and South Korea today should tell anyone that he made the right decision.

[Winterblues]

14. He dropped the Bomb on Civilian Population Centers

That alone should make him a questionable leader.

[Lex1775]

15. ?

How is that any worse than FDR allowing Japanese and German cities to be firebombed?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

16. Sixty-five years later (give or take a few years),

and everyone knows better than Truman.

Give me a break, you Monday morning quarterbacks. Look at what Truman had land in his lap when Roosevelt died. He was just a Senator from Missouri, and not particularly chummy with FDR, and then, one day, he's President, with all that the US has going on in April of 1945.

I think he did a hell of a job. Consider the time, the state of the world, and how scared our country was when FDR died. For many people, Roosevelt was the only President they'd ever known.

So, yeah, hindsight being 20-20 and no one of the commentators ever having had to make any kind of decision that would affect millions of people, sure, rank Truman wherever you want. It doesn't matter, really, because his good deeds live on. If he did things that weren't so good, show me a ballplay who batted 1.000.

I'm a bit biased, I have to admit - I worked for a man who had been Harry Truman's Chief of Staff, and when Charles Springs Murphy died, I was the one entrusted with assembling his papers and flying them, with the National Archives people who did all the heavy lifting, to Independence for their inclusion in the Truman Library. So, I have a strong pro-Truman streak here.

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. The single, most objectionable thing Truman did was to create the

foundations of the security state - with the CIA and the National Security Council. That alone should put him outside the top ten.

If not for that, I'd rank him much higher.

[WI_DEM]

18. In "Plain Speaking" Merle Miller quotes Truman as saying that was a regret of his

because the CIA was not used the way he saw it should be that it went out in all these other directions.