A roof on wheels for the homeless. Many of us may need one of these before it is all over.

[elocs]

From CBS News last night: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/16/eveningnews/main4804824.shtml

The EDAR site: http://edar.org/

A lightweight version of this with wheels that could be pulled by a bike would be nifty. I'd get one while I could so I would be ready for the future (just in case--I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it).

[flvegan]

1. That is brilliant.

I like that this is a charity as well. I wish them much success.

[Hannah Bell]

2. um, how bout an apartment, where you can lock the frigging door.

10% housing vacancy rate & someone comes up with wheeled tents so the homeless can drag them along during the day.

"charity"

sickness.

[elocs]

4. Until you can get an actual apartment it sure beats sleeping on the sidewalk.

If I was homeless and on the street I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at one and think I am too good for it. Reality is a bitch and you do what you need to do to get along.

[Hannah Bell]

11. shit on 2 pieces of bread is possibly better than starving, but i should applaud?

here's an idea:

instead of sending charity $ to pay to make tents, run a website, & support the tentmakers, why not send it in to rent homeless people some of those 10% vacant apartments?

or maybe pay them for making the tents, then they could rent a room themselves instead of being the object of tent charity.

[KittyWampus]

31. you know what? I'll take the reactions of the ACTUAL HOMELESS PEOPLE USING THEM

then yours.

Know why?

Cause they are the ones whose reaction really matters.

The people interviewed seemed pretty juiced about them.

[Hannah Bell]

33. you know what? i bet they'd take the $500 the tent cost over the tent.

& you know what else? PR is like sausage.

11.6% vacancy rate in LA, but "caring" = tents.

& they're sooooooooo grateful!!!!

[Hekate]

90. Where does $500 = first, last, and deposit? And then, of course, they need it every single month...

:shrug:

[Hannah Bell]

95. it doesn't. but 2000 $500 tents = 1 million dollars. which will subsidize something.

if the aim is to house people, HOUSE them, don't piddle away money & goodwill on expensive wheely tents.

[roguevalley]

134. why in the blazing hell does it have to be either/or? there are homeless

people you can't FORCE into an apartment. Have an array of options. Help people the WAY THEY WANT to be helped. Save all the snarling for the enemy, of which the homeless and those who are trying to help them are not included.

[bdamomma]

127. the people that are homeless will accept anything at this time.

like any kind of roof over their heads. so sad though.

[kestrel91316]

17. Studio apartments in Los Angeles were going for upwards of $800

last I checked. With limited $$ to spend, how many EDARs do you think that $800 would buy and how many homeless would have a tentlike shelter EVERY MONTH compared to putting them in apartments?

Pay attention to the REAL WORLD. There are not unlimited dollars available.

[Hannah Bell]

25. The *real* world isn't about dollars, it's about housing units, & there's a 10% vacancy rate.

Take your tent dollars & buy an apartment building.

There are plenty of resources to feed & house everyone.

Oh, you mean the *real* world constricted by capitalism, i.e. the *real* world that has homelessness as a foundational principle, & in which *caring* = giving a few people a tent, while ignoring the economic necessity of homelessness.

[Shakespeare]

40. I don't think we have a 10% vacancy rate in LA.

I live in a fairly nice courtyard building on Hollywood Blvd, and we currently have two homeless people sleeping directly under our bedroom window. We could call the cops on them, but haven't. These are horrifically hard times, and if they want to shelter on the side of our building, they're not hurting anybody.

[Hannah Bell]

47. you're right, that's just the latest "office" vacancy rate.

[robinlynne]

60. You can't get anything to sleep in for 500.00 in LA! nada.

[Hannah Bell]

62. really? nothing?

http://santamonica-california.olx.com/500-room-for-rent-in-west-los-angeles-santa-monica-iid-18232218

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/roo/

besides which, if housing people were a priority, there WOULD be $500 rooms instead of $500 tents.

[robinlynne]

65. one room runs around 1000 a month. rent here is impossible! scary. We're all afraid of losing where

we live. Rents are going up, not down. there are more renters every day. less homeowners. what world do you live in?

[Hannah Bell]

72. i showed you several rooms offered for $500 or less/mo.

which indicates there are *some*.

Multi-family vacancy rate (apartments) = 5%.

Office space vacancy = 11.6% & rising.

12% foreclosure rate.

If former homeowners are now renters, who's living in their former homes?

If "everyone" is afraid of losing their homes, will they be happy with tents?

Spend a million & buy 2000 tents, what a deal.

How many houses does ah-nuld own?

[progressoid]

56. "The *real* world isn't about dollars"

Ummm...:wtf:

[Hannah Bell]

59. the real, material world of existing resources isn't about dollars, sorry.

there is empty housing, with running water & working electricity, & plenty of people to run the power turbines, patch the water pipes, maintain the houses.

the world of resources & the world of dollars are different worlds. in one, there's plenty for everyone; in the other, perpetual scarcity alongside surfeit.

[Shakespeare]

37. Closer to 1200, actually.

I was recently in one (finally escaped to a hideously overpriced one bedroom, where I can actually move around without bumping into things).

I saw the news report, too--I was moved to tears by the elated reactions to the cart/tent things. I'm torn, because it's such a poor solution, but at least it's an IMMEDIATE solution, and at least it's something, some small step.

[JVS]

126. If they have a vacancy rate in the double digits, they should lpwer the price

[robinlynne]

57. sickness is your reaciton. This is wonderful!

[Hannah Bell]

82. "dignity"

[ColbertWatcher]

77. THANK YOU!

That is exactly what I thought when I first saw them.



I also feel the same way about that movement to put people in shipping containers.

[Hannah Bell]

80. "dignity"

it's a tent on wheels. i'd rather have a light backpacking tent, double the space, half the cost.

oh, but that one has "locks".

right, that looks so secure from the crackhead who wants to steal my stuff.

knife, rip.

backpacking tent & backpack, or a shopping cart. they're *free* from the local walmart.

they can count it with their many awesome charitable contributions.

that they fund from their local tax breaks.

[ColbertWatcher]

160. The sad part is this is considered a free market solution.

Some guy "invented" a product that can be manufactured and sold.

As opposed to having the political will to solve poverty and homeless and hunger problems.

No doubt we will soon be hearing that these things will need to be manufactured someplace outside the U.S. to keep costs down.

[Shardik]

91. then go out and give a homeless person a room in your house.

I've been homeless. Have you? I have spent nights on subways to keep warm in the winter. I've endured fundie sermons for a meal. Any port in a storm.

[Hannah Bell]

99. i've lived with homeless people, put it that way.

storms keep coming, getting bigger, hey, lets buy $500 tents for the homeless. stopgap of course. wink wink

[cliffordu]

190. It's those goddammed sermons while waiting for soup

and a sandwich that's the worst.

Maybe they think you'll convert if you're hungry enough.....


But the food really was tasty.

[Hekate]

92. I don't know where you live, but you display a lot of hostility towards someone's kind-hearted...

... endeavor to help folks sleeping under freeway overpasses, tucked away on hillsides, or on sidewalks. An aerial survey of Los Angeles reveals innumerable blue tarps used as not-very-good shelters.

While we're waiting for the feds/states/cities to have enough money to get Section 8 housing for these folks, why not give them an actual and immediate shelter? It could take untold years to actually get them into a place with a lock on the door that they could afford.

The state of California, btw, is on the verge of going belly-up. There is not now and will not be for the foreseeable future any money. Now THAT'S sick.

Hekate

[Hannah Bell]

100. they'll still be under overpasses, etc. they go to those places because they get

hassled less, & they'll go there with or without a tent.

we'll be waiting for the section 8 housing until we do something about there not being enough for the need, instead of buying expensive tents & saying how awesome it is "until there's housing available".

there will *never* be housing available when it's deliberately rationed.

there's plenty of money. plenty of empty housing space, too.

unfortunately, 1% of the population owns most of it.

yeah, "sick" when more of the population gets to see how the other half lives.

maybe some nice 501c3 group will give us tents. here's yours:

[Greyhound]

174. I can understand where you're coming from, but I believe that she is

pissed at this as just being another pathetically minimal non-solution to a real, persistent problem that persists in large part because these kinds of things allow people to tell themselves that something is being done, so rather than addressing the real problem we get this and more "gestures".

The thing itself looks pretty cool for what it is and I hope is durable enough, at $500 per unit, to be of some use to the very few that get one, but in the end this doesn't fix anything (there are something like 200,000 homeless people in SoCal alone) and is just something else to be stolen from people that have everything stolen from them over and over for years.

Peter Samuelson is a long time film producer worth 10s of millions of dollars. Do you know any film producers? I don't know him, but I have known many film, television, and music producers over the years and massive ego and arrogance is a common thread.

It is also a little, I don't know if disgusting is the right word, to show a picture of yourself and your creation for people with nothing, wearing a suit that cost more than they will get in a year or more, his shoes cost more than the tent.

So yes, she is a little hostile and I imagine frustrated beyond belief with this kind of thing.

To me it's like a situation we have here in Portland. Phil Knight is one of the richest men in the world, #69 in 2007, and has one of the richest and most profitable companies on earth. A company that was made so on the theft of the labor of third world children and virtual slaves. His company pays, or rather doesn't pay, an estimated $6M - $8M per year in taxes into our community because they threatened to move their headquarters. Then every couple of years they "donate" a million dollars to the school system and are lauded with millions of dollars of free publicity in the guise of news about what a wonderful company this is and how lucky we are to have these crumbs.

[bobbolink]

138. Thank you, Hannah!

:applause:

A voice of sanity in a very crazy party!

:pals:

[Two Americas]

155. thank you Hannah

Thank you for your efforts here.

The conservatism and authoritarianism and defense of privilege and the status quo here is much more stubborn and aggressive than anything I ever see among everyday people who are Republican voters. There is probably no more aggressive and difficult group of people to talk to in the country as the "progressives." Thank you for trying.

[applegrove]

3. Wouldn't work in Canada. Winter too cold.

[elocs]

5. Its cold here in Wisconsin too, but with a good sleeping bag I could survive in one

for at least 8 months out of the year. Then there is only the cold winter to worry about, but on the story the homeless woman was proud to have at least that.

[applegrove]

8. I don't get sound right now. I couldn't hear the story. Yes if there was some sorta

thick padding on the bottom it could keep you warmer in the winter than being outside. Thing is there are still 20 nights a year when nobody could survive the cold weather here in Canada.

[daleo]

142. Natives survived in tents, so it is possible

But nobody should have to live like this in this day and age.

[bobbolink]

187. It's illegal to build fires in the "civilized" city.

That's how "natives" survived, you will remember.

"But nobody should have to live like this in this day and age."

Thank you! It's amazing and very depressing that so many think this is so wonderful.

[bdamomma]

128. that woman was re-educating herself too, wonderful.

[Gregorian]

6. This is awesome! Recommending with glee.

How do you spell dignity?


Holy crap, there are 70,000 homeless in Los Angeles. That's ill. Shame on us.

[Hannah Bell]

12. pulling around a tent on wheels = "dignity"? i don't think so.

[Gregorian]

15. It represents someone caring.

But this country is in serious denial if we let people fall through the cracks and not give a rat's ass about how they end up.

[Hannah Bell]

21. yes, it's all about the "caring" of the donors.

if we "cared," we wouldn't be saying "awesome" to shit on two pieces of bread.

[Javaman]

192. And exactly how do you contribute to a solution?

or do you just prefer to see the negative?

[emilyg]

55. A heck of a lot more dignity than sleeping

under an over-pass. I see a lot of that.

[Hannah Bell]

63. right, homeless in a wheeled tent, big step up. you could even have a flowerbox.

as the city streets fill with sidewalk tents, tell it to the police & business owners, how "dignified" it is.

the overpass it will be, tent or no tent. because you don't get hassled so much there.

[elocs]

87. Evidently there are some here who believe that sleeping under an over pass is better.

It's all or nothing. You either have an apartment, or sleep under an over pass. No steps of improvement allowed.

[Hannah Bell]

89. what's the next "step"? maybe an outhouse?

[emilyg]

133. Let's ask the homeless which

they would like better.

[robinlynne]

66. I would bet anything that you do NOT do any work with homeless people.

[Hannah Bell]

76. i'd take the bet, & you'd lose. two years until i got sick of the hypocrisy of

going to state meetings & pretending we were making a plan to end homelessness in ten years & seeing the "success stories" back on the doorstep again because they DIDN'T MAKE ENOUGH MONEY to keep their place when something unforseen happened, the year's wait for subsidized housing with most of the downtown business district sat boarded up & empty, the awards dinners where everyone patted themselves on the back, the religious nuts who came in with toys & sermons for the kids,

the monthly newsletters to the dying community for more donations, because "the need just keeps growing," the spy system with the local police & businesspeople, multiple people tazed, the rich businessman's kids who were the local big dope dealers, the 50-something guy who cried when a little girl gave up her birthday presents to bring in food, then got kicked out for using & died in an alley, while the cute 20-year old girl got a pass for using, the administration creaming the donations -

i raised $30K for the shelter by myself in a city of <50K with 8% unemployment & i don't know how it is in the big city, but here people can get their own tents, one way or another, for less than $500. There were about 20 people living on the little stretch of river 2 blocks from here in tents last time i walked by, & i can count another 20 living illegally in junky trailers in back yards & alleys in my immediate neighborhood.

but believe whatever the fuck you like & cheer the damn tents, whatever.

[me b zola]

170. Thank you, Hannah

Part of retaining what ever dignity you can muster is to be homeless and not appear to be homeless. It is also what will eventually get back into a real job and housing. At least that was my experience. When you are homeless you can't even leave a blanket/bedding somewhere without it being taken. Try lugging that shit with you for a job interview. Now imagine pushing your homeless trailer to a job interview and asking the receptionist to please watch your home for a few moments. :eyes:

I guess for many it is too easy to have a preconception of who and what a homeless person is. But in the end, it may be more about our inability to remember what it is that makes us human, and to extend that to the person that they pass on the street.

"That which you do unto to the least of my brothers you do unto me". You don't have to be christian or even to believe in God to understand that sentiment. Most liberals/progressives understand it.

[Hannah Bell]

83. "dignity"

[Ichingcarpenter]

7. 70,000 Homeless in LA alone

Think about it a second.

[Gregorian]

9. I just edited my post with the same words. Shameful.

That is sick!

What kind of people make up a country that allows this? Where are our priorities? Military spending has to come to an end. In fact, an economic meltdown would alter the priorities of Americans. I hate to say it.

[Cleita]

10. To be fair, the warmer climate and beaches attract homeless from all

over. There are also better charitable services that feed and help clothe them. Still there should not be 70,000 homeless in the country let alone one city.

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. To be fair------- totally wrong words

To be fair when talking about the homeless.

[Cleita]

26. I wasn't talking about the homeless. I was talking about Los Angeles.

Los Angelenos didn't create the homeless as the original post would have you believe. When people were thrown out into the streets after the passage of proposition 13 and the funds for the safety nets that kept them from being homeless dried up. Many Los Angelenos did what they could to help out and I'm sure still do. However, the problem is overwhelming without state and other assistance. Trust me most everyone does what they can. My husband and myself tried to help various people who had become homeless or were on the verge of becoming homeless, especially women but we could only help a few. We knew people living in our alley and tried to help feed them and construct some sort of shelters from the elements. We helped them to hide from the police who always tried to sweep them out. But the problem is overwhelming and it's impossible for private citizens to do what is needed.

[kestrel91316]

18. The vast majority of them are either untreated mentally ill or

drug/alcohol addicts who refuse to enter transitional housing because they aren't allowed to drink/drug there. And you can't FORCE the mentally ill to get help.

[Ichingcarpenter]

19. OH, so there is transitional housing for 70,000?

I don't think so.

Now, lets blame the victims shall we?

[Hannah Bell]

27. They're all nuts! What's the point of giving them tents, then, they'd probably set fire to them, or

leave them lying in the street.

They're too frigging crazy to live in houses, why would tents be different?

[KittyWampus]

34. and you're so superior and ultra-liberal! Why just look at your avatar.

[Hannah Bell]

36. you're the liberal. liberals favor giving homeless people tents when 11.6% of the housing stock is

empty.

[5X]

51. Why don't you call me a liberal too, and I will call you an idiot.

Talk about no clue.

[Hannah Bell]

53. you already did.

[Hannah Bell]

84. "dignity" "security" "home base"

keep your $500, i can build a better tent myself with scavenged materials.

& wheeled shopping carts are free from walmart.

yes, that's right, they give them away to the homeless.

so go down there & grab yours now!

[Cleita]

38. Not the majority. There are the homeless you don't see visibly in the streets,

the ones who sleep in their cars and often have jobs. You would be surprised to find out that maybe you work side by side with some of those.

[struggle4progress]

132. Not in most of the country -- and I doubt that LA is that different from other places:

where I live, the homeless include people who are unemployed, people bankrupted by chronic health conditions, victims of domestic violence and others who lost their housing when intimate relationships disintegrated, migrant workers, folks released from prison who have nowhere to go, people trying to escape from their own drug problems and people trying to escape from other peoples drug problems, people who made strange choices that didn't work out ("I ran away from home and joined the carnival when I was fourteen ..."), and so on

It's true that some homelessness is caused by mental illness -- but the source of the mental illness varies: some people need meds to cope have no support group to make sure they're doing OK, for example; some people collapse psychologically when tragedy or disaster strikes ("I didn't care about anything after my wife died" or "I couldn't get back into my home after the storm so I hit the road"); some people begin to deteriorate after they become homeless

[bobbolink]

140. You're very WRONG! Try checking the REAL stats first.

Look it up with National Coalition for the Homeless before you perpetuate this RW stuff.

[Two Americas]

156. that is false

This is a malicious and false idea.

[cliffordu]

195. Of course there are the single parent families that simply cannot afford to live

indoors, too, you know, the ones living in cars with their kids......


Living on the street will MAKE you mentally ill, jack.

[defendandprotect]

44. And how did we ever stop thinking about this . . . it's a threat to all of us . . .

When is DU's call in to stop HOMELESSNESS --????

[grasswire]

13. I thought this would be about the empty old rail cars...

...that have been sidelined and are sitting, MILES of them, on side tracks. There was a thread some weeks ago about that as a possibility for homes.

I would take an empty old wooden rail car in a heartbeat. I'd love to live in one.

[cliffordu]

196. That's because you could CHOOSE to live in one.

having resources makes everything look like a choice. Even homelessness.

[elocs]

16. Deal with reality people. The reality that homeless people face each day.

If you were homeless and on the street tomorrow and faced sleeping on the street tomorrow rather than waiting for the maybe someday perfection of what might be you would take the EDAR and be happy to have it until something better is available. It's easy to sit in our cozy Progressive abodes and pontificate about how things should be, but here is an organization that is actually trying to make things better for homeless right NOW. If you only could give a homeless person a blanket would it be worthless because you cannot give them an apartment? You do what you can do.

[4 t 4]

20. OMG I'm about to be homeless

and given a choice I would love one of those as opposed to living with no roof on the street. My sister told me about this today but this is the first time I have seen them.

[Hannah Bell]

30. how about if they gave you the $500 each one costs instead?

[haele]

158. But what would I do the next month?

And the month after, and on and on...

I see where you are coming from, and believe me, I don't like the idea that people would be grateful to get one of these things.

But $500 might give me 100 sq ft with no furniture in someone's converted garage or back room for a month, and as much possibility of my stuff getting stolen as it would happen on the street - or in a shelter.
I can find rooms for $300 in San Diego, but I wouldn't want to rent in most of those places unless I had absolutely nothing left to my name but a suitcase and a job as a Walmart Greeter that could pay my rent, utilities and a big bag of beans and rice. I looked at the neighborhoods your cheap rooms were in.
Yeah, beggers can't be choosers and all, but you're still living at the mercy of someone living in a dysfunctional neighborhood, who might be scamming you for money while they've not been paying rent themselves and getting ready to find someplace else to live - and you're the one left when the landlord sends out the sheriff with the eviction notice or the utilities get turned off. That has happened to most of the people I know that went the roommate/co-renter route.
Even if the person offering the room is legit if I can't manage to find myself one or three jobs that pays more than minimum wage, I'm probably back out on the street.

The gentleman who made arrangements to live in the car wash dumpster and use their facilities in my neighborhood a couple years back worked two jobs, but didn't make enough to pay his court ordered child support and still rent a room. He would have loved one of those tents. They had a covered "port" for their dumpster, you see, and it was relatively clean back there, so he could put an air mattress and sleeping bag down at night. They let him do this because they had a lot of outside vending machines, were off a main drag, and were too cheap to put up security cameras. He did this for two years, until he either started making enough or stopped having to make support payments - or the city busted them for allowing homeless to squat there. That's another side of homeless - when there aren't enough jobs to support safe housing out there.

If I were homeless and working, with one of those tents and some community negotiation, I can live in relative privacy and comfort from the elements in one of the canyons, and not have to wait in line starting at noon with my shopping cart to get whatever bug-infested bed in a safe-house is available for the night. I can work when and if I'm able to until I can get to a better place.

We all want to get rid of the root causes of homelessness - but we still have to treat the symptoms. Especially if we have to depend on charity to help treat those symptoms.
It's not a perfect idea, but it's a good idea for some. Just as more transitional housing and shelters, food banks, and "Stand Down" weekends are a good idea for some.
What we need is fair lending, jobs that are in line with a basic standard of living, single payer/universal health, mental health parity, and free education/training.

But don't let the good be the enemy of the perfect, now...

Besides, there are no such things as "Free Shopping Carts" - Unless the person actually bought the cart from the store or from some sort of recycling location and has proof of ownership, they can be arrested for theft or their cart can be confiscated by the people the stores send out once a month to collect their wayward carts. I've seen a lady have her possessions tossed in the middle of a busy street and the cart taken back to the store that owned it. Many recycling places won't let you recycle your CRV items if you bring them in a shopping cart because of the cart theft issue.

Haele

[closeupready]

24. I completely agree.

An EDAR, I presume, keeps out rain (not that it rains much in LA), affords a basic level of privacy. Better than nothing at all.

[bobbolink]

161. "affords a basic level of privacy" YUP, you can pee in them anywhere.

:crazy:

[Hannah Bell]

32. yes, & if i were starving, i'd "happily" eat some moldy bread & maggoty meat.

so WHAT?

For $500 i can rent a room for a month, or buy a tent light enough to fold up & put in a backpack, that I don't have to drag around on awkward wheels all day or park somewhere & hope it doesn't get stolen. Plus buy some food.

This organization could make things better for the homeless RIGHT NOW by taking the money they spend on tents & buying an apartment building.

11.6% vacancy rate in Los angeles. There's plenty of housing.

[elocs]

39. I am really sorry I won't be able to read anymore of your critical drivel.

Actually, I am not sorry at all. A know it all with all with a lot of talk, but who is probably doing nothing. Pathetic.

[Hannah Bell]

46. sorry not to cheer the new tent cities.

actually, i spent two years volunteering at a homeless shelter.

until i couldn't stand the frigging psychotic doublethink involved.

like giving homeless people tents when there's plenty of housing.

like patting people on the back for donating their old toys & hotel soap.

and their tents.

like spending half a million/yr to run a homeless shelter when you could have bought the building for that. in fact, the residents with income could have bought it from their working income & gov't payments.

[bobbolink]

162. It's really a SHAME that some of these "progressives" can't bear to understand your clear logic.

You have all the facts, and understand the pain that it is to live homeless around arrogant "helpers".

I thank you for adding some sanity to this very sad, ignorant thread.

:pals:

[Terran]

165. The "clear logic" of taking private property from its owners

and giving it to someone else? I'm socialist in many ways, but in general that's pretty hard to support and extremely unrealistic in the real world. It's not clear logic at all.

And even if you did just that (steal that 11.6% of uninhabited housing and hand the keys to all the unsheltered homeless people), it STILL wouldn't solve a complex problem like homelessness. I've worked in this field for seven years now so I think I have a clue about this.

[Hannah Bell]

172. Those who "private property" prevents so many others from having even basic property,

deserve to have it "stolen".

[Terran]

182. blah blah blah

Yeah yeah, "property is theft", I know. Try living in the real world. :eyes:

[bobbolink]

186. Now THAT'S logic.

:crazy:

blah blah blah.... the new "progressive" mantra... :rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

205. I'm not talking about *your* house, *your* car, *your* small business.

I'm talking about the owning class who, e.g., just threw 3 million americans out of work & in danger of homelessness in the last year.

The .05% of the world's population who effectively own 80% of it.

[bobbolink]

185. I would very much appreciate it if you wouldn't put words into my mouth.

NOWHERE did I advocate taking property from others.

If you can find that in my words, then point it out. Otherwise, you can acknowledge that you have misused my words.

[cliffordu]

199. Golf courses. Put 70 thousand of them on all the golf courses.

I miss george carlin.

[cliffordu]

197. And those things must weigh 100 lbs empty....

Good luck pushing one of them under an underpass....And where was the shower, again? On the first floor or in the basement....

[juno jones]

124. Yes.

I don't think some people have a clue as to the size of the waiting lists or the bureaucracy involved in getting spaces in public housing or shelters.

Many are still not going to qualify.

I'd rather them have a roof, some privacy, and a semblance of normality. It might help, and it certainly couldn't hurt.

[kster]

22. KRnt

[Juche]

23. Sweet, but $500?

Its a goddamn tent. Couldn't you buy a pop up camping tent, some cinder blocks to tie it down to and a cot to put inside for $100? Also, what kinds of wind would blow the thing away (I assume the wheels lock)?

From the moderate amount I know about homelessness, supposedly living homeless in a car isn't bad, at least not nearly as bad as living w/o a car. So a car that has a big back seat might be ok. However, in summer it can be pretty bad.

[Hannah Bell]

28. $500? OMG, I can buy a good 5-lb backpacking tent for that, & i wouldn't have to

drag it around on wheels all day.

Frigging joke.

[Hekate]

94. What about the shopping carts so often pushed by the homeless? That seems to be the model. nt

[Manifestor_of_Light]

102. And I used to think I was joking.

When I referred to shopping carts as "small personal condos".

[Hannah Bell]

108. no, they're the model for the post-reagan housing program.

[Hekate]

117. I was referring to the fact that it makes a new item more readily accepted if it has features of...

... an already acceptable item, one already in use. Thus, the grocery cart was possibly the model for size etc.

I am sure that no one believes this is supposed to be a permanent solution.

Hekate

[4 t 4]

29. Agree it should cost like

close to nothing and if it was to help people it would cost nothing.

[elocs]

35. Check out what it says at the site about the EDAR:

http://edar.org/solution.html

EDAR'S Solution

EDAR (Everyone Deserves A Roof) provides shelter to the homeless in an innovative cost and usage effective way. The EDAR unit is a purpose-specific, special four-wheeled enclosed device, very roughly reminding one of a covered shopping cart.

During the day, the EDAR unit is used to pursue the necessities of life. Personal belongings are secured by the use of locks. The front and back of the cart have storage baskets with removable canvas pouches. The unit is waterproof and provides protection for what it contains. EDAR's wheels are better than a supermarket cart's, being slightly larger and easier to steer in a consistent fashion. There are two brake and locking mechanisms which ensure the unit will not move on its own.

At night, the EDAR unit easily hinges out and down to Night Mode in less than 30 seconds, becoming a sleeping unit. Unfolding the unit allows it to lock in place as the flat metal base extends. The metal and wood base has a mattress and military-grade canvas cover, providing a robust tent-like shelter. The unit is flame-retardant, waterproof, windproof and helps protect from the elements. There are translucent windows that provides light and a view of the surrounding area. By re-folding the unit, the EDAR quickly returns to Day Mode.

Just read that. This is not a cheap piece of junk. A metal shopping cart can cost almost $250. And it says: "Personal belongings are secured by the use of locks." Can you imagine what that might mean to a homeless person who may be pushing around an actual shopping cart? It's hard to believe that someone can come up with a good idea only to have it criticized and picked to pieces. So for the critics: what have you done to make the life of the homeless better? If you have done something does it make it garbage because you have not produced the ultimate solution to the problem?

[Hannah Bell]

42. a $500 room has locks, too. plus water & heat.

[KittyWampus]

43. LOL! and what happens after that $500 is spent in a week on one room.

[Hannah Bell]

49. a room in LA is $2000/mo? who knew?

this one, i guess - but it's an apt.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/apa/1039376796.html


http://losangeles.craigslist.org/apa/

[bobbolink]

141. What would happen if "progressives" actually CARED about it and took ACTION

rather than laughing at others?

[Ichingcarpenter]

45. First and last month's rent plus security deposit $1500

Let's be realistic.

[Hannah Bell]

50. oh, yes, we must be *realistic*. ergo, the homeless get tents.

and there will always be homeless.

i volunteered 2 years at a homeless shelter.

about half had some kind of income, either state income or income from work. they just didn't have enough to get together a down or survive the bumps in the road when they came.

$500 would help in both cases.

[The Doctor.]

61. You seem to be missing something fundamental here.

Do you know what the difference between giving someone a fish and teaching them to fish is?

Give them $500, and they'll spend it to be comfortable for what... a few days?

Give them a $500 home base, and they can be more comfortable indefinitely.

You don't seem to grasp what having something like this means. This tells me you've never been homeless.

I have. I slept in the trunk of a car for a week, by a walk down exhaust grate near a hospital, and in subway bathrooms where I could catch a couple hours before a security guard or cop kicked me out and I have to just walk in a broken circle to the few places I had found. My time being homeless was not fun, but something like this would have made those few months far more bearable.

So much more.

This is a great idea, and I haven't seen one cogent argument against it yet.

[Hannah Bell]

64. it's not a home base, it's a tent. a home base doesn't have to be moved routinely to keep out of

the way of the police. having a tent doesn't keep you from being rousted, it makes you more conspicuous.

a home base gives you access to 1) water & 2) toilet - just to mention 2 fundamentals of human dignity. & it doesn't have to move at someone else's will.

i spent two years volunteering in a homeless shelter, & i don't mean just running the soup line, i mean essentially living there part of the time.

[The Doctor.]

69. You're really missing this fundamental point;

It's shelter.

Are you really saying it's more 'dignified' to sleep in a vacant lot without shelter than it is to have one of these in the same vacant lot?

You really don't seem to have any perspective on this issue.

Please tell me why it is preferable for the homeless to not have these mobile shelters.

[Hannah Bell]

74. Tell me why we had so many fewer homeless people pre-Reagan.

I am fed up with band-aids on chest wounds.

Tell me why spending a million to put 2000 people in tents is a wonderful idea.

Tell me where their feces goes in that vacant lot, how they get water, & how they keep clean.

Tell me of the dignity of tents.

[The Doctor.]

75. Do you think things through much?

So... without the tents, there will be no feces, they'll have hot water, and they can keep clean?

You have committed a failure of logic I don't see too often around here.

So I'll ask my question again and see if you can answer;

"Please tell me why it is preferable for the homeless to not have these mobile shelters."

After that, I'll entertain the idea of answering the questions you've used to avoid answering my question.

[Hannah Bell]

78. tell me why you think it's a good idea to spend 1 million to put 2000 people in tents.

instead of subsidizing housing.

half the people i worked with at the shelter had some income. just not enough. 1/4 of them worked.

people can make their own goddamn tent unless they're handicapped or old, & in that case, even LESS should they be LIVING in one.

tents or nothing isn't the only possible choice.

[Hekate]

97. "Subsidized housing"--Nice, but are you aware that California is on the verge of going belly-up?...

There is not now and will not be for the foreseeable future any money to subsidize anything much.

While we're waiting for that great day when the feds/states/cities actually have enough money to get Section 8 housing for these folks, why not give them an actual and immediate shelter? It could take untold years to actually get them into a place with a roof.

Hekate

[Hannah Bell]

123. california, with one of the world's greatest concentration of billionaires,

is going "belly-up," eh? cause there's "not enough money"? "not enough jobs"?

& there's several year's waiting line for subsidized housing, & 70,000 homeless in LA, so buying them $500 tents is a 'stop-gap?'

35 million dollars.

11.6% office vacancy rate in the city. 20% in parts of the county.

12% foreclosure rate.

none so blind as they who will not see.

If I lived in some tribal society 300 years ago, i'd at least have a place to live, like everyone else.

but in these more civilized days - "not enough money" for those kind of luxuries.

really?

[The Doctor.]

130. Ah... I get it. You're doing that 'vague inference' thing...

You're suggesting, without saying, that we could 'just put the homeless up' in all the empty offices and homes.

And you think everyone else is naïve?

I'll make it simple; attempting your 'solution' entails HUGE legal challenges for every single individual piece of property. Just because they're empty doesn't mean a vested party doesn't own them. 99.9% of them have owners. You think all of those owners are just going to give their property away to the state? Do you know what happens in real estate law when the state starts letting people squat everywhere?
I don't, and I'm sure all the property owners will fight to keep it that way.

A tent, on the other hand, is mobile and provides an option.

So I'll ask again; "Please tell me why it is preferable for the homeless to not have these mobile shelters."

[The Doctor.]

129. You must be some sort of 'professional question avoider'. Is that degreed?

I'll try one more time then;

*So... without the tents, there will be no feces, they'll have hot water, and they can keep clean?

You have committed a failure of logic I don't see too often around here.

So I'll ask my question again and see if you can answer;

"Please tell me why it is preferable for the homeless to not have these mobile shelters."

After that, I'll entertain the idea of answering the questions you've used to avoid answering my question.*

You see... if I start answering your questions, it's just going to lead back to my original one to you anyhow, so it's pointless to avoid it... unless you're just trying to prove you really have no point here.

[Hekate]

159. She wore me down to the point I finally awarded her an Iggy...

Couldn't take it any more.

Hekate

[Hannah Bell]

173. Your question is a when did you stop beating your wife question.

The tents are a waste of energy, money & goodwill that could be used for housing people.

It is preferable that homeless people be housed.

You & the rest of the liberals here are essentially saying they're not going to be housed, so wheely tents are better than nothing, let's all cheer the beneficient donor.

The donor could have spent his social & economic capital to house people, but he chose to produce expensive tents.

[Juche]

54. It is being criticized because it may not be the best idea

Since we do not have infinite funds I would rather spend the money on pop up tents and cots for a larger number of homeless people than a smaller number of EDARs. That is the point of debate, to point out the flaws of each other's logic to arrive at a better conclusion. A pop up tent costs $60, is far easier to carry (it is just a flat disc about 2 feet in diameter), and will probably do just as good of a job.

The fact that we have a huge homeless problem and are considering mobile tents to help them at the same time that 19 millions homes are sitting vacant is insanely fucking stupid.

[elocs]

96. You know as well as I do that there is no correlation between the homeless

and millions of empty houses. It is unlikely that few homeless would ever be moved into any vacant houses, but they could an EDAR tomorrow. Also, these are being provided with private money and they are far, far more than a simple pup tent or a cot.

The EDAR in not any kind of permanent solution and nobody is claiming that it is. It is simply a step, and improvement over sleeping on the street and pushing a shopping cart taken from some store. It is clearly a better solution than that. I don't see any logic at all with having the homeless having to carry a pup tent with them wherever they go.

[Hannah Bell]

105. it's a tax-deductible charitable foundation taking from the pool of available

charitable contributions to give people $500 wheeled tents.

there is no "step 2" unless people insist on one.

if people insist on "step 2," step 1 isn't necessary. house people, why fuck with tents?

instead, they talk about how great the tent is.

hey, maybe mr. millionaire businessman could just subsidize some homeless rentals on the QT instead of starting a big-deal PR foundation & getting other people to pay for his tents. maybe he could twist some of his friend's arms & have them subsidize even more. maybe they could donate some of their houses, land, empty office space. yeah, dream on. hold a contest & solicit the general public for tent money.



Leadership

EDAR's Founder and President, Peter Samuelson, is a media executive who founded three major children's philanthropies: the Starlight Children's Foundation in 1982, the Starbright Foundation in 1990 and First Star in 1999.


so many foundations, yet people are poorer than ever. wonder if there's a correlation?

[readmoreoften]

109. Or we could just seize foreclosed second-homes from banks and put homeless families in them.

I agree. That's an expensive goddamn tent. How about looking at the root of the problem? Nah, "impossible."

Philanthropy ain't nothing but a devil in a white suit.

[Juche]

164. The fact that as 19 million homes sit vacant, we debate putting the homeless in tents

Is fairly silly. It reminds me of something from high school civics. The question was something like 'what was most ironic about the great depression' and the multiple choice answer was 'that millions of farmers were burning their own crops due to price deflation at the same time that millions of families were starving'. Someone in class said 'thats not ironc, thats sad'. Its the same situation.

No, they wont be moved into the vacant houses anytime soon. But the fact that they won't and we debate the most efficient tents for homeless people to live in while 19 million homes are vacant and nobody is buying isn't lost on me.

[Two Americas]

157. not at all

This is the "purist" argument, a modern variation on red-baiting.

The problem with the idea is not that it is inadequate or imperfect, but rather that it is destructive. Just look at this thread and see the attitudes it has brought into the open and reinforced and promoted.

[Juche]

163. How is a purist argument the same as red baiting

Red baiting was preying on us vs them division.

I supported the stimulus bill's provision where it involved $1.1 billion in investments to find the most cost effective medical interventions. For example, I am on the blood pressure medication hydrocholorithiazide. Because I buy it generic, split the pills and take advantage of deals the medication costs me $10 every 6 months. Some people spend $100+ a month for medication that is no more effective. Funds are limited, so use them efficiently.

I do not think $500 on a tent is a good investment when a pop up tent and cot could be had for $100. Everyone deserves a roof, but I'd rather get 5 homeless people 5 tents and cots than 1 homeless person an EDAR. I admire the efforts to do something about homeless people exposed to the elements, but why is a $500 EDAR superior to a $100 pop up tent and cot?

[Two Americas]

166. red-baiting and the "purist" charge

Red-baiting is calling for any left wing views to be dismissed and ignored, by characterizing them as all the same, and as not to be considered solely because of the label applied to them. Likewise, the "purist" argument calls for the same thing - dismissing and ignoring people's arguments - is aimed at the same group - anyone expressing left wing positions - and works the same way - opinions are to be dismissed solely because the label has been applied to them.

It is an exceptionally accurate and appropriate use of analogy.

Do you really think that the "purist" arguments do not prey on - and create - an us-versus-them division?



...

[Juche]

167. How am I doing that though

Out of curiosity. I know the left has been marginalized heavily in this country. Iraq war protests and attempts at holding the Bush admin legally accountable are generally written off the way you describe, as the acts of the marginalized left and not to be considered in polite society. David Sirota has written about this alot, and I don't want to contribute to that.

Maybe my original post was insensitive, but I was just not impressed that people were charging $500 for what is really just a tent and a cot.

[Two Americas]

168. no big complaint about you, nor an attack

Just making a point about the "purist" thing that people throw around. Sorry if it sounded like a criticism of you.

[Two Americas]

169. oh hey Juche...

I meant to respond to another poster. My eyes are not what they used to be, and I am on a borrowed machine and can't see it very well. I was trying to defend your post and I agree with it. Sorry. No wonder you were confused. Time to put me on an ice floe and push it out to sea lol.

[cliffordu]

201. I'm sorry, but this is NOT a good idea, it doesn't represent AT ALL

what people on the streets really need.

And I have a problem with the word 'Homeless"

They aren't homeless at all......they make a home wherever they can. Alleys, cardboard boxes, underpasses, all become home. THey make homes for children in the backs of cars.

My home has been a tent, an underpass, and a car. I live inside now, a testament to lamictal and years of mood stabilizers.

A 500 dollar glorified shopping cart does NOTHING to alleviate the problem, it just masks the symptom.

These people need HOUSING. They are HOUSELESS.

And makes the Liberal Guilt stay away until another problem needs money thrown at it.

Give a woman and her two kids one of these and you can think you've solved a problem.


(Most of the above stolen, again from George Carlin, who hit this right on the head.)

[Dover]

41. Here's another kind - a tent/cot that folds up into a carrying case.

Cabela's


Kamp Rite


Single or Double
About $160 - $280.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKO-oZWNwaA

[Ichingcarpenter]

48. 56 pounds and no wheels

Nice but doesn't have the security or the padding
the other one does.

I say nationalize empty apartment buildings
or co-op them. The whole thing is with the tent
its a temporary solution and a band-aid on a torn artery

[Dover]

52. Yes, I agree with you. We should try to use existing resources and encourage

a more stable living environment first. Tents are last ditch, emergency gear.

[elocs]

93. Did you bother to check out what the EDAR actually is? It doesn't seem so.

http://edar.org/solution.html

The EDAR:

1. During the day, the EDAR unit is used to pursue the necessities of life.
2. Personal belongings are secured by the use of locks. (What a luxury locks are for a homeless person.)
3. The front and back of the cart have storage baskets with removable canvas pouches.
4. The unit is waterproof and provides protection for what it contains.
5. EDAR's wheels are better than a supermarket cart's, being slightly larger and easier to steer in a consistent fashion.
6. There are two brake and locking mechanisms which ensure the unit will not move on its own.
7. At night, the EDAR unit easily hinges out and down to Night Mode in less than 30 seconds, becoming a sleeping unit.
8. Unfolding the unit allows it to lock in place as the flat metal base extends. The metal and wood base has a mattress and military-grade canvas cover, providing a robust tent-like shelter.
9. The unit is flame-retardant, waterproof, windproof and helps protect from the elements.
10.There are translucent windows that provides light and a view of the surrounding area. By re-folding the unit, the EDAR quickly returns to Day Mode.

How exactly does a covered cot compare with this? The EDAR is at least something that the homeless can take with them and store their belongings, be used to collect recycleables or whatever as well as giving them a place to sleep. There is no comparison between the functionality that an EDAR provides and a covered cot or a pup tent. Anyone who has ever actually slept on the street, on a sidewalk, would take an EDAR in a heartbeat.

[cliffordu]

202. You REALLY need to go volunteer at the nearest homeless shelter/outreach program.

[robinlynne]

58. This is fantastic. This is a home NOW! immediately. with no strings attached.

of course ther eis much more to do. But having a bed after sleeping on a sidewalk, and protection from the elements in this simple way is great. This is fast, affordable, doable right now. And it does not require discussions with republicans.

[Hannah Bell]

67. it's a tent, not a "home". the wheels are for city life. tell me, where

in the city will 70,000 people pitch their new tents?

if you gave them land title with the tent, i might call it a "home".

[robinlynne]

68. Well you are bitching about everything. Go do something instead!

I have many friends who work with the homeless. If they had your attitude, people would be a lot worse off! Put your money where your mouth is, as it were.

[Hannah Bell]

79. you know nothing about me or what i do or don't do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5077590&mesg_id=5079322

people who "work with the homeless" aren't needed.

homes for the homeless are needed.

the shelter i worked at paid out $500K in salaries & expenses, real dollars, & another $500k in-kind.

I calculated that the residents could have bought & run the building if they'd pooled their existing income & gotten about 1/4 of that cash.

& the women's shelter? woo, don't get me started. a couple of million to house 30 women & their kids for a year. they could have just given each family the 67K each.

but then the "helping professionals" wouldn't have jobs, would they?

[Hekate]

103. Why do you hate the homeless and those who try to help them?

The entire subject of this thread is a nuclear flashpoint for you. I could be completely wrong, but you appear to be deeply eaten up with loathing and bile.

All you are doing here is tearing ideas and people to bits, including people who are actually DOING something. What is your actual PLAN, and WHERE is the state/city/federal money coming from?

Post after post it's do this, do that, but I'm not seeing anything coherent -- just deep, deep anger that leads you to say that you would rather see the homeless continue to push shopping carts around and sleep on sidewalks than receive a means of personal shelter (that they could push around like a shopping cart) to tide them over.

I know you don't mean to say that, but that is indeed what you are saying.

Hekate

[Hannah Bell]

114. "tide them over"? what?

if people don't push for housing for the homeless, there will never be housing.

you like tents? fine, go donate your $500 bucks to the millionaire's 501c3.

Why am I pissed? Because it seems few people, even with the economy crashing down on us, can see the deep, deep cynicism & hypocrisy of this:


"EDAR's Founder and President, Peter Samuelson, is a media executive who founded three major children's philanthropies: the Starlight Children's Foundation in 1982, the Starbright Foundation in 1990 and First Star in 1999.

Peter Samuelson asks,

"Well into the twenty-first century, if the best our advanced society can do for the hundreds of thousands of homeless human beings... men, women and children... who live among us is the cast-off box our refrigerator came in, what exactly does that say about us?"


Got it: refrigerator boxes, bad, 6x4x4 tents, good.






Everyone Deserves a Roof? It's a one-man tent on wheels, executive boy. One of your bespoke suits would pay a month's rent. Throw in the shoes for the utility payment.

[bobbolink]

137. Too bad you don't know the first thing of what you're saying, yet you are there to accuse!

Time to LEARN about the realities of homelessness, and work for SOLUTIONS rather than capitalistic crap like this!

[bobbolink]

136. WHOA! Talk about BITCHING!

What she is saying is what you should be hearing!!

This is completely ignorant! On so many levels.

Listen to reason, rather than yelling at it!

[Mika]

70. And not ONE person is homeless in Cuba.

Been there. Seen it.

Housing is nationalized. Rent capped at 10% of income. Government subsidy of 75% pay if jobless (with according rent reduction). Government pays for job retraining. Everyone get food stamps.

Cuba is very poor, but every single Cuban child has a home, and a good school, and a good doctor, just as every Cuban adult does also.

Amazing place.

So many DUers put Cuba down as some kind of hell hole, but 99.9% of these "experts" know nothing about it, & have never been there.

Suck it up! We could learn a lot from Cuba. We might have to.

[readmoreoften]

111. Yes, but you're missing the subtext of all the Cuba hating...

"Those homeless people don't deserve what we have. Don't let them die, but don't let them stay in nice homes either. Give them innovative tent-carts and let 'em be happy with that."

The idea of poor people having equality in housing and care really pisses some people off--even "liberals."

[Hannah Bell]

118. yes, we'll pay someone to "help" the homeless, but we won't just pay

for a place to live.

A 12x12 room with European-style toilet/shower, mini-fridge & microwave + private entrance & lock on the door would at least be a safe place & offer the basic hygiene requisite for living in the "normal" world.

[SeattleGirl]

71. I think I'd rather see a more permanent solution to the homeless

problem, like good, solid apartments and houses where people can actually put things in closets and drawers, and sit down for dinner together.

I could see something like the EDAR being used for camping or something, but for long-term living? Nope.

I think people deserve better living quarters than that, and I think we have the means to do it. We just have our priorities fucked up.

[Mika]

73. How about a representative government.

Cuba has many of the serious social ills resolved, housing, education, health care, and that's under a "dictatorship".

Just think what we could do if we had democratic representation as good as Cuba's "dictatorship"?

[Hannah Bell]

81. yes, that would be a good idea, instead of the dictatorship of the $ we live under now.

[readmoreoften]

112. Maybe Obama could send the homeless to Afghanistan to fight.

:sarcasm:

Just Kidding.

[SeattleGirl]

115. Sheesh, I hope so!

Sending the homeless to war is more along the lines of something Bush would do (or did do).

[elocs]

85. So, no steps between sleeping on a sidewalk and having a room or apartment?

The old all or nothing routine? People deserve better than to sleep on the sidewalk or on a cot with a mass of people. By the way, whoever claimed this was for long term living?

[SeattleGirl]

86. That's not what I meant.

Of course I don't want people sleeping on the sidewalk or under bridges, or in alleys.

I'm saying that I think we already have the resources to house the homeless, yet we do nothing.

Well, that's not quite right.

We are doing something: creating even more homeless people.

There's something very, very wrong about that.

[elocs]

101. An EDAR is simply an improvement, a step in a better direction, not the ultimate solution.

It is clearly better than sleeping on the streets or sidewalks. The reality is that these other resources that could be used to house the homeless will not readily be used at all. An EDAR could be available tomorrow until something better comes along.

(A side note not related to the EDAR. As I was out taking a walk on Tuesday I walked past a church, an empty church that is probably at best only used maybe a dozen hours a week and I wondered why every church in this country could not be used for at least a few homeless to sleep each night or to give them a home base, a place to get mail, an address for a job. Think how much that would help the homeless as well as Jesus' call to shelter the homeless and feed the hungry and it wouldn't have to involve the government at all.)

[SeattleGirl]

106. I totally agree with you about the churches

Seems to me that using them to house the homeless while better accommodations are readied for them would be the highest form of Christianity.

It's too bad that so many people look upon the homeless with scorn.

They don't deserve that.

[elocs]

110. The ultimate irony is that Jesus was a homeless man who only owned the clothes on his back.

He really depended upon others for food and shelter. My guess is that if Jesus were physically walking the streets today that most Christians would probably not even recognize him. They would think he was some kind of radical socialist and yell at him to get a job.

[SeattleGirl]

113. Couldn't agree with you more.

I think he would be absolutely appalled at the number of homeless people these days who DON'T get fed and sheltered.

Frankly, I'd love to see him come back and do the money changer number again.

I bet the first time would look like a party compared to this time.

I'm so sick of how a person's worth has become equivalent to their bank account.

I know that not all monied people are bad, but I also know that not all poor people (in fact, I would say, MOST poor people) aren't scum of the earth.

People who think they are should be required to spend at least a month in a homeless person's place.

[elocs]

121. Off topic, but a story I have always liked that I'll have to tell from memory:

It was the Christmas Eve service at the church and a lot of the members were just plain irritated with old Annie because she always seemed to be in the way or needed some help. Then through the door came a couple and the wife was very pregnant and they needed help. Of all things, the woman's name was "Mary", so the church thought this was a Christmas miracle. They started to make a big fuss over the couple and as usual old Annie got in the way and somebody told her to go and sit down. She sat for awhile, but then, unnoticed, got up and left. She got on her bike and rode it for a ways down the road. She then got off and with a smile as she looked up at the stars and said, "This human body is so limiting". She then raised her arms and ascended into the heavens.

"Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." Hebrews 13:2

In exactly the same way, so many Christians would not recognize Jesus if he walked the streets or even sat in their churches.

[juno jones]

125. To paraphrase

(because I'm about to crash and can't look it up...)


"That which you do to the least of these, you also do to me..."

[Hannah Bell]

119. i've heard it for 30 years. things aren't going to change unless people

force the issue.

they never will until there's mass homelessness.

but keep talking up the "temporary" tents & the "non-government" solution of turning churches into homeless shelters, waiting for the "better days" that never fucking come.

in my experience, the church folk would rather contribute to a shelter than have stinking homeless people sleeping inside their building.

outside, sometimes. inside, no.

[SeattleGirl]

122. That is not always true.

There are churches, at least around here, that open their doors to homeless people so they have a safe, dry place to sleep at night.

It's certainly not the ideal solution, but I just wanted to point out that not all churches see the homeless as the great unwashed.

[Missy Vixen]

209. I realize this may start the flamewar of all time, but here goes

>every church in this country could not be used for at least a few homeless to sleep each night or to give them a home base,

That's not what they're there for. After all, what's the difference between the vast majority of churches and a country club?

IMHO, YMMV.

[Hannah Bell]

88. i can buy a 4-man tent for < $100 at walmart, & it comes with its own shopping cart.

the shelter i worked at had single, double, & family rooms. the family rooms had bathrooms.

$1 million/yr including 10 people's crummy salaries, 1/2 in-kind. includes food, showers, phone, mail & counseling.

100 person capacity when stuffed to the gills.

not great, but better than a tent in the park.

[silverojo]

98. How long till local authorities make them illegal?

As another excuse to make the homeless "go away". :mad:

[elocs]

107. Well, sleeping on the sidewalks or loitering is already illegal in many places.

You can only do what you can do.

[elocs]

104. Wow! "Ignored" has made this thread a personal mission with 37 responses.

(I see it as "Ignored", but the rest will certainly recognize "Ignored".)

More than me, the original poster. Someone either has a vendetta or a bug up their butt. I wonder how something like the EDAR which was meant to help homeless people can have such a bitter critic who appears to have a real bone to grind over it. Oh well, it takes all kinds.

On edit: I would like to thank "Ignored" for helping to keep this thread going for as long as it has and to help it get as many Recs as it has. It probably would not have been possible without you. Ah, the Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again.

[Hekate]

116. LOL. Yes, the Law of Unintended Consequences... nt

[Hannah Bell]

120. you're welcome. glad to be of service. enjoy your future tent cities.

[Earth_First]

131. If you EVER needed proof that class warfare exists...

this thread certainly demonstrates that.

[Greyhound]

178. You got it.

I find it especially ironic that the most vocal proponent of this "gesture" has one (possibly two) of the few people on this board that really knows what she is talking about on ignore.

The determination to not understand is impressive.

[bobbolink]

135. And you propose to put this ...WHERE? You DO know that more and more cities

are outlawing homeless people, don't you?

And, of course, it would be the PERFECT thing for an 80-year-old and all those awful disabled homeless people. (Do I need the :sarcasm: thingie?)

What you are saying by promoting this is that You have accepted homelessness. You think it's just fine.

Further, you are promoting capitalistic "solutions" that only make profits for some company off of poor people. AND then they have nowhere to put the damned things.

What would it take to convince you to take action to get LOW-INCOME HOUSING FOR EVERYONE?!

[elocs]

144. This is simply a step, an improvement. Nobody ever claimed it was the solution.

If I give a homeless person a blanket or sleeping bag is that worthless because I did not give them low income housing or provide the perfect solution? What I am saying is that this makes a homeless person's life better while we work toward a better solution. Have you asked an actual homeless person how they feel about this? I would guess not, but it is easy to pontificate about how others are doing what they can to improve the lives of the homeless.

[bobbolink]

146. It is NO IMPROVEMENt. It is all about PROFIT for some company.

Now, answer the question.... WHERE are we supposed to "park" these???

Oh, and by the way, dearie, I AM homeless... so why don't YOU ask ME?

[bobbolink]

147. dupe because it said "Page unavailable"

:crazy:

[Two Americas]

139. easy to see what is wrong with this "solution"

People fall all over themselves giddy and happy- "what a wonderful solution" for "them." Boy now we are really being constructive and positive and "doing something" instead of just bitching and complaining and "being negative!"

Happy happy happy. Aren't we happy? So happy. So self-satisfied.

But behind the happy happy happy - when we pull the curtain back just a tiny bit on that happy "progressive" happy, positive, constructive, realistic, practical program, look at all of the anger and hostility and aggressiveness. My, my, my.

That big sunny happy think-positive smile - "we are here to help you!" - but if you ask any questions, the fangs sure come out in a big hurry.

"How dare you try to tell us that our ideas for helping 'them' are flawed??? Don't you know we are the helpers, and it is all about us? How dare you try to challenge our dominance and status and power in this discussion? Helpers are winners, and you are losers. Now get in line you ingrates and be thankful that we care about you at all!"

Smiling faces sometimes pretend to be your friend
Smiling faces show no traces of the evil that lurks within
Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes
They don't tell the truth
Smiling faces, smiling faces
Tell lies and I got proof
The truth is in the eyes
Cause the eyes don't lie, amen

Remember a smile is just
A frown turned upside down
My friend let me tell you
Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes
They don't tell the truth,
Smiling faces, smiling faces
Tell lies and I got proof

Beware, beware of the handshake
That hides the snake
I'm telling you beware
Beware of the pat on the back
It just might hold you back

Jealousy (jealousy)
Misery (misery)
Envy I tell you, you can't see behind smiling faces
Smiling faces sometimes they don't tell the truth
Smiling faces, smiling faces
Tell lies and I got proof
Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes
They don't tell the truth
Smiling faces, smiling faces
Tell lies and I got proof
(Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes)
(Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes)

I'm telling you beware, beware of the handshake
That hides the snake
Listen to me now, beware
Beware of that pat on the back
It just might hold you back

Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes
They don't tell the truth
Smiling faces, smiling faces
Tell lies and I got proof
Your enemy won't do you no harm
Cause you'll know where he's coming from
Don't let the handshake and the smile fool ya
Take my advice I'm only try' to school ya


- The Temptations

[elocs]

143. Tell me, exactly where have you seen this put up as a solution? That's your word.

A step forward is a step forward. That is all it is--a step, an improvement and not the solution to the homeless problem. There is nothing flawed with trying to improve the lives of the homeless just because it is not the ultimate solution.

[bobbolink]

145. There are a LOT of flaws, as many here have tried to tell you. But you (and others)

respond with venom, rather than being willing to LISTEN.

And LEARN.

Yet, you wonder why poor folks have given up on the party you want us to vote for.

This is NO IMPROVEMENT....except to the capitalistic companies that will PROFIT.

[elocs]

148. Yes, there are certainly those who have replied with venom,

but it is not me or any of the others who are supportive of this idea. The naysayers are clearly the ones spewing the venom here. Also, posting in all caps does not make you more authoritative. Evidently those who think this is a good idea have so much to learn from the truly wise.

[bobbolink]

150. bwahahahha!! No venom from those who agree with you????

Wow.. that is tunnel vision, to be sure.

You can choose to listen or not.

And, you still haven't replied to the question you are avoiding... WHERE would you have homeless people "park" these things??

WHERE?

Please reply to this.

Since you seem to have the answers, and don't need to learn from "the truly wise".

[elocs]

151. Those (at least 1 and now apparently you) have made their disagreement with this a vendetta.

It evidently offends them so much that they just cannot let go of it. I put 1 poster on this thread on my ignore list and she has made 44 responses out of 150. Something is wrong there. You are apparently the same and you're not even worth my trouble to read or to respond since you believe only your answer is correct and cannot be agreeably disagreeable. Spew away because I won't see it or your tag team partner.

[bobbolink]

153. We do not "let go" of injustice. Too bad you chose to ignore those who KNOW.

[Two Americas]

152. no venom here

I am completely calm, and feel no hostility toward anyone. I am not angry, and have no desire to "win" this discussion, and entertain no hope that I could.

I don't think Hannah Bell has a hostile bone in her body, and have never seen her do anything that could even remotely be construed as "spewing venom." I did see much hostility directed at her, however.

[Two Americas]

149. respond to what I said

You are free to respond to what I said.

I cannot defend things I didn't say.

[bobbolink]

154. We've had "improvements" (including shelters) for 30 years now. Isn't that enough waiting?

Isn't it time for some REAL solutions???

[smokey nj]

181. "Most of these people were underpriviledged anyway, so this is working out very well for them."

That's what's running through my head as I read this thread.

[bobbolink]

194. Exactly, and yet "progressives" get angry when confronted with their own myopia.

:cry:

Thank you for understanding... it's becoming a rarity. :cry:

[KillCapitalism]

171. We actually have space to house a lot of the homeless.

But we don't make use of it. I'm talking about abandoned buildings like factories, schools, hospitals, and warehouses. They aren't the most desirable places, but if you fixed them up a bit & hooked up water & electric & created dorm style housing, it would be far better than the tents. Tents would just not work in my city this time of year. Sleeping out in the elements here in February is a death sentence.

[bobbolink]

193. Could we PLEASE stop with the dormatories?? I'm 63, I DON"T need to spend the rest of my life

packed into some ridiculous dormatory!

I've posted and posted and posted about the DISEASE being spread in this way, but nobody seems to be able to hear it.

WHY would you pack people like sardines in this way?

Would YOU like to live the rest of your life in disease, with NO way to even have a few possessions, NO WAY to have even a simple hobby?

"Sleeping out in the elements here in February is a death sentence."

It's time we start to really TALK about the reality, and what people in these situations are really feeling, rather than deciding FOR them. LISTEN to us, please. Just a few days ago there was a DUer who is NOT homeless, but very poor and feeling very isolated and useless. He stated that living more is not a thrill for him. The pain is deep and relentless. Could we really begin to think and empathize MORE and understand MORE? Can you grasp that for many of us, a "death sentence" is what we've been living, and has become preferable to some of these "solutions"?

Please, LISTEN to us! Hear the PAIN, rather than treating us like some foreign species that should be shunted aside in disease-ridden dormatories!

[HughBeaumont]

175. Sorry, I'm with Hannah on this one.

The notion that we've accepted that mere food/shelter/clothing survival depends on one being gainfully employed is a disgrace.

In a world where we're still paying billions per month on the Pentasewer and their vanity wars, and interest on the National Debt that's never going to be paid off thanks to Reagan and the Two Bewshes who knew DICK about running an economy, why are this many people (and soon to be more) living on the streets?

If we have enough money to give tax cuts for people that least need them (all so they can fire us, build plants and create jobs overseas, deny us health care when we're in the greatest need of it and charge us even MORE money when we've fallen on hard times), then we can find the money to help people.

I don't want to live in a world where we've accepted this problem. Giving people a tent is almost an insult along the lines of telling them to . . . eat a shit sandwich and be grateful for it when their hungry.

Right here in Cleveland, people sleep outside the Dominion office building; one in which many of it's floors have been vacant. For YEARS. I know, because it's right across from the one I work at. It's one of MANY in 10%-vacancy-rate Cleveland. Why would it be so difficult to organizations to drywall these things, put doors on them and pay for them through a separate fund? They're VACANT BUILDINGS! People are freezing in blankets on the street.

Why are we wasting SO much money on rich people's follies?

Why are we bending over backwards to help supposedly "on the verge of bankrupt" businesses give their executives bonuses that they don't NEED?

Why are we STILL involved in trillion dollar military conflicts?

Why do we STILL accept the notion that "in this economy, you gotta face reality: some people are going to get . . .left behind." ?????

NO.

I want a SOLUTION and I want one NOW.

WHAT are we going to do to STOP unbridled corporatism, STOP catering to the fucking mafia Pentasewer and START solving the problem of one having to have a better-than-living-wage merely to SURVIVE?

It's an absolute crime and disgrace that this nation STILL allows this to go on. Just like in health care, band-aids seem the more formidable (read: profitable) solution than cures.

[bobbolink]

188. Thank you soooooo much! Your words should be repeated over and over-- a BUMPERSTICKER!

"The notion that we've accepted that mere food/shelter/clothing survival depends on one being gainfully employed is a disgrace."

YES! WE have ACCEPTED homelessness, and that tells the whole story. The very fact that we think this tent on wheels is great is testament to this very fact. And it IS a disgrace. Thank you!

The notion that we've accepted that mere food/shelter/clothing survival depends on one being gainfully employed is a disgrace.

The notion that we've accepted that mere food/shelter/clothing survival depends on one being gainfully employed is a disgrace.

The notion that we've accepted that mere food/shelter/clothing survival depends on one being gainfully employed is a disgrace.

The notion that we've accepted that mere food/shelter/clothing survival depends on one being gainfully employed is a disgrace.

The notion that we've accepted that mere food/shelter/clothing survival depends on one being gainfully employed is a disgrace.

The notion that we've accepted that mere food/shelter/clothing survival depends on one being gainfully employed is a disgrace.

The notion that we've accepted that mere food/shelter/clothing survival depends on one being gainfully employed is a disgrace.

:applause: :applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

It's sooooo cheering when someone GETS IT!

[alfredo]

176. I lived in a tent for a period of time. It had its moments, but it gave me

a place to sleep at night, and gave me time to find work and enough money to rent a shack outside town.

[JNelson6563]

177. What we have here is a failure to communicate

OMG, what a clusterfuck of a thread.

Seems to me we are all on the same side. Those who have never had experience with homelessness should not be met with hostility for their failure to wholly understand it. OTOH those who don't really *know* homelessness shouldn't propagate myths like all homeless are either hardcore drug addicts or mentally ill.

If we really want to make progress on this (and I believe we all do) we need to improve the dialogue. Resist the temptation to be hostile, admit you may have something to learn, whatever it is you need to do to improve the discussion and make it more productive, please swallow your pride, squelch your anger over the situation, let go of formerly held views and move forward.

We all have much to learn on this topic and much to contribute to the solution. But not if we are talking past each other or worse, playing the role of shit flinging monkeys.

If this "discussion" is any indication of the Real World efforts on this ever growing tragedy then no wonder things only get worse. Get it together DU!

Julie

[Greyhound]

180. I'd say that this is pretty indicative of the real world on this topic.

On the one hand we have the well meaning, but completely ill-informed, being so enthusiastic about this gizmo that they will not hear what the people that know what the hell they're talking about are telling them. And OTOH the people that have been fighting this battle for years and years being (I think) so upset about our collective refusal to seriously address this issue that they are coming off as "too angry".

Earth_first and Hugh_Beaumont have a pretty good handle on the root of this, IMO.

"You are not being sufficiently grateful for the crumbs we deign to drop into your bowl".

[JNelson6563]

189. We who do understand the issue

need to work a bit on our diplomatic skills methinks. The way to teach is not to approach the pupil with hostility. I can understand the frustration, no, really, I'm living it. Nonetheless, if one cannot discuss the topic effectively (and ends up alienating would be advocates) well then one is simply adding to the problem & solving nothing.

People need to take a good look at the words they choose before posting, determine what they hope to accomplish and assess with an eye to that goal. Is your goal to educate and further interest/involve others in the cause? If so does your post communicate this or something else (ie you are an ignorant fool)?

How to win friends(allies/advocates) and influence people, some posts in this thread rate a "UR doin' it wrong".

Julie

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

179. I posted just a little while that we don't solve the homeless issue because we don't want to

because if we did, we would have done it by now. I wish I could find that thread, but basically I postulated that you could even have a munificent donor offer to build free housing and transport people to work on a private bus system but somehow people would still find a way to disapprove the building and zoning approvals for it.

This is because of an ugly side to the American character which incorporates all the worst of our Puritan ancestors and our Horatio Alger legends. There is a belief that people are poor because they want to be poor and homeless because that's what they want too. Charity is seen as just promoting weakness and vice. I made it! Why can't they? Lazy bastards! Why should my tax dollars subsidize people who can't and won't improve themselves? That is the subtext to why people just won't back any kind of municipal action to alleviate homelessness. Most cities and towns now focusing on persecuting the homeless and badgering those who would help them (providing free food in parks, etc.)

The answer for a GREAT many people is plain old vanilla affordable housing. We did a better job in even recent history of taking care of this need. We need boarding houses. We need dormitory housing like the YMCA and the YWCAs USE to offer people. Watch some old movies from the 20's, 30's and 40's about how people use to live in a kinder more accepting era that accepted that everyone did not need or even want a large apartment or individual house.

The percentage of the homeless who are mentally ill is a side issue, but once again, one that a humane society would address, proving once again, we are not a humane society. I'm wondering why the prison industry doesn't find a way to round up the milder cases and turn them into another serf labor model like they have used so successfully with our prison populations.

We could also focus a lot more on preventing homelessness when you can predict it. A large group apparently is older displaced single woman who make up a large portion of the poor. Some have houses they can't keep up that could easily accommodate another couple of people. There could be some kind of service that matched people with the housing space available with people who needed the housing and perhaps provided a federal subsidy as an enticement to make the housing available.

Sorry to blather on. One last thing (that will never happen) is that we could loosen our attitudes about what we allow as accessory housing in our residential neighborhoods. If some little old lady down the street wants to put an apartment over her garage to help her pay property taxes and to give affordable housing to someone who might also help her with maintenance - I would have no issue with that, but I can just imagine the yowls of outrage at the zoning hearing.

[Greyhound]

183. You notice how this problem must now be "fixed incrementally with baby steps"

in spite of the fact that it was created all at once and has simply grown worse over the years through consistent inaction?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

184. Here is my paradox - Housing encourages homelessness (to some)

Suppose a billionaire came to your city, Happytown and said "Hey! I'm a rich Christian kind of guy (trying to appeal to fundies here) and Christ said feed the hungry and shelter the homeless, so lets do it! I am going to fund a big beautiful campus with hundreds of small but efficient units for singles, double occupancy or family group housing. I will have a large fantastic community food facility for the inhabitants. I will have onsite job counseling. I will have mental health triage so that the worst cases can be sent to an appropriate facility (which there aren't any, but play along here)This will be a great thing and we can end homelessness in our community with such a great place. And don't worry, I'll provide an endowment and a non-profit for perpetual upkeep.

And here is what would happen. You city would REJECT this! People would say it is bringing a negative aspect to Happytown. Happytown will ENCOURAGE people to become homeless by housing them. Other homeless will migrate to Happytown. Soon, Happytown will be NOTHING BUT homeless people looking for a free ride.

This, my friend is an impoverished outlook and a crime against reason. The circular logic is that housing the homeless encourages homelessness. Not that Happytown could be an example to other towns and that maybe the homeless wouldn't have to migrate to a more charitable and Christlike city if they could have similar support right where they live. And like others have pointed out, it not like there aren't vacant schools, factories, miltary bases, etc that could be utilized.

[bobbolink]

191. EXACTLY!!! We "progressives" accept homelessness.. we just don't want to see it.

When we actually, truthfully, look at the situation, we can come to no other conclusion.

We ACCEPT it.

I congratulate you on being willing to see through the obfuscation, and see the truth of the matter.

That said, I must disagree with you on your "solutions". Dormatories and boarding houses are NO solution, and shouldn't even be considered in a country this rich.

Dormatories are BREEDERS of disease, lack of sleep, and other ills. There is NO privacy, therefore no way to even try to regain any sense of dignity or worth. Did I mention the DISEASE? You do know that drug resistant TB is spreading badly in dormatory shelters, don't you?

And then there is that little matter of no way to store and protect what few belongings you have.

No, this is NO WAY to "house" people in the richest country in the world!

As for boarding rooms.... Why would we even think of this? Look right here at DU.... all the talk of eating well, and healthy, but you would cram poor people into a small room where they are dependent on the "operator" for their meals, which means the cheapest and most poorly prepared food? Why would you consider that? Just because that was a bad choice from the past doesn't mean we should go back to it.

In less than 2 weeks I will be 63 years old, but you want me to live out my life in this kind of disrespectful "housing"? No way to eat healthily, no way to even pursue a simple hobby, no way to co things like even WRITE because there isn't room, there is NO way to even have my own private belongings for a hobby, etc. Why would you want me to live the rest of my life in a way that proves to me I have absolutely no worth?

No, I would rather stay in my car than be crammed into small quarters with other people, many of them ill.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

198. I think we must have a different concept of what a "dormitory" is

I think you are thinking a Jane Eyre type open room with countless cots and coughing soon-to-be-dead orphans. I was think more along the lines of a college dorm room, which mine in college was quite nice, not huge, but had a bed a desk, a large locking closet and room for a fridge and a microwave. I think a private bath would be nice, but most dorms of the type I am talking of, unfortunately have a very large shared bath, but with private toilets stalls and private shower stalls.

Boarding houses are a form of communal living, it may not be for all, but I personally would prefer to live in a boarding house than a car, but that's just me. Commonly they were set up as "room and board" which meant meals were provided or just "room" which meant you were on your own for meals. You talk about "cramming" poor people into small rooms. Lots of people all around the country share their houses and have roommates. I think you bring a lot of pre-conceived negativity to solutions people might suggest which work for many people right now.

So, what exactly would you consider to be "respectful" housing of the homeless? I'm going to venture that you strike me as someone who likes solitude and space and independence. I say this because of your multiple use of the word "crammed", your concern for privacy and security and that you don't want someone else to dictate your food choices.

And by the way, I DON'T accept homelessness. What I accept is that many if not most accept it and see poverty as being a crime.

[bobbolink]

204. I have a surprise for you--- NO HOMELESS PERSON WANTS TO LIVE IN A DORM

of any sort.

I encourage you, rather than to concoct your own "solutions", to actually LISTEN to us.

I'm 63 years old, as I said, and which you don't acknowledge. I'm waaaay past college age, and will NOT live in a dorm of any sort.

Call me "negative" when you aren't willing to listen to us.

I'm done with people who know NOTHING of us, and refuse to listen, then prescribe for us. That is done in Social Services, in church-run shelters, in "help" agencies, and on and on and on. Depersonalizing us in this way WEAKENS us.

But, you're so sure of yourself, that I don't expect ANYTHING to get through to you. I acknowledged YOUR caring, when you expressed it, but you can't acknowledge what *I* have to say.

So, have at it, and call me whatever "negative" names you choose. You who don't know me at all.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

206. I did ask for your opinion of what would be acceptable "respectful" housing

So I am trying to listen to you. I think you get a bit hung up on terminology. I am NOT talking about warehousing people in hangars filled with cots. The type of dorm I described with private, secure rooms is along the old YWCA model which had people of all ages as residents. I accept that you may not find it to your liking, but do you really think you speak for ALL homeless people in saying it is completely unsuitable at any level?

I am willing and HAPPY to hear your thoughts about what you, a 63 year old person without housing at this time, would find acceptable as an answer to your situation. I am sorry that I called you negative - I should not have done that, because you're right, I don't know you. Your name actually sounds like a cheerful sort. It's just that you have rejected every well-intentioned idea without offering a substitute of your own.

Your thoughts from the front lines?

[bobbolink]

211. Why in the world can't we ALL live in actual HOMES??? Are we such a poor, third-world country?

You want to keep asking me questions, which I think are self-answering. So, I'll ask YOU some questions....

Why do you want to segregate us off into YMCAs?

Why do you consider us so separate from you?

Why would we want something different from what YOU want?

Do YOU want any of your family spending their lives in dreary small, cramped rooms, when this is such a rich country?

I spoke about the limitations to even a minimum of life... why do you not respond to that?

When I'm speaking of the REAL limitations, why do you just dismiss it as a "Hangup"? (And then claim that you are listening).

And, for your information, YES, I speak for a lot of homeless people. Besides my current situation and meeting lots of people in my circumstances, many years ago I did a book of stories of homeless people and interviewed MANY people without homes. YES, I am quite qualified to speak with a great deal of experience. I shouldn't even have to defend myself on this to a "progressive"!

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

214. I have no idea how you define HOME

But please give it a shot. You almost sound like you are saying that the ONLY solution you could accept would be a single family detached home, but that can't be possible. Would you include apartments? Efficiencies? ANY type of shared living?

I do have 2 immediate family members who live in shared housing type situations very happily of the type that you apparently do not feel is up to snuff.

One is in a shared housing co-op type quasi boarding house in a major city - he is a highly paid professional who also travels the country as a musician and likes the freedom this arrangement provides him, the other is also an employed professional in a different city who shares housing, as "roommate" in another major city because he doesn't want to be "house poor" while he saves for retirement, etc.

I have no desire to "segregate" you into YWCAS, but I think something similar should come back, not just for YOU, but for anyone who is content to live small and affordably on limited means. Not your style, I get that.

What was your previous housing situation that you cannot abide the idea of "dreary, cramped rooms?". I've lived in my share in my life and I was usually ok with that. I lived in an efficiency apartment that was very tiny with one space for living/bedroom, an ok bathroom and a tiny kitchen area and I was VERY happy. Could I ever go back to living like that again - YES I COULD. Would that meet your needs?

[bobbolink]

215. You are sooo determined that you're right. I answered your questions, but that's not enough for you

You can't answer MINE.

What I SHOULD have asked YOU, is what makes YOU such an authority on homeless people?

I told you my qualifications, now what are YOURS concerning homeless people.

I so much resent your implication that we homeless people owe it to the rest of you to live small and cramped so we can't even pursue a hobby, so that it lives up to some sort of image of "green" or whatever. You talk about someone who lives their life traveling and doesn't need a home, like that should suffice for the rest of us who have NOWhere to go, and can't even BEGIN to think of traveling. So, we shouldn't be able to have the space for bookshelves, a large enough dining area to have people over for dinner, a space to practice dance or exercise for those who can. A place for a spare table for assembling puzzles, enough room to have yarn and other necessities to pursue creative hobbies... Just because you know someone who travels, why do you want OUR lives to be cramped and bleak??? That just doesn't compute!

You refuse to even consider that many of us, if not MOST of us, want to be able to have guests, have a hobby, actually live like any other citizen. You would take all of this away, because we don't have the standing of the rest of you. You really need to reconsider your biases.

And, there are so many words you're using that make it impossible for me to believe that you want the best for us.... you say "up to snuff" like I'm being "picky". Being "content", like those of us who want some sort of quality of life are just malcontents. I really resent not only your not willing to hear us, but your assumption that you are the only one with some understanding of what we should be "happy" with.

You clearly don't want to hear from me... so keep telling yourself that I'm somehow beneath you, and you are the one with the REAL ideas for living.


I'd like to refer you to this essay, because it's clear you can't hear me and have no intention of trying to reach some sort of understanding. Maybe if you're willing to spend some time listening to someone else, you'll be able to understand that some of us are just as "worthy" as the rest of you:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4898212

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

216. You know what, bobolink, nevermind.

So, we shouldn't be able to have the space for bookshelves, a large enough dining area to have people over for dinner, a space to practice dance or exercise for those who can. A place for a spare table for assembling puzzles, enough room to have yarn and other necessities to pursue creative hobbies... Just because you know someone who travels, why do you want OUR lives to be cramped and bleak??? That just doesn't compute!

Maybe someday there will be a program for the temporaily unsheltered that involves space for bookshelves, a dining area big enough for dinner parties, a dance area, a hobby space with a game table, etc.

I'll PM you when I hear of one.

In the meantime, be sure to tell everyone on every thread involving the homeless that any answer they think of isn't good enough.

[bobbolink]

217. I'll be sure to do that.

Thanks for your dismissal and discount. I'm not surprised.

I'm also not surprised that you're not willing to read anything outside of your own frame of reference.

After all, what could we homeless people actually know about anything??? If we are homeless, it's because we're so stooopid that we need those of you who know more to decide things for us.

[Tikki]

200. I believe I have seen an uptick in RV's parked, long term, on streets or in driveways

with electrical cords running from the RV to the house.

I've seen a lot more of this scenario, on my daily walks around town, than
I have ever seen in years past.


Tikki

[Hannah Bell]

207. i started noticing it too, over a year ago, in my neighborhood.

[bermudat]

203. elocs, you have the patience of a saint.

I just finished reading all the posts on this thread and I feel sick.

[elocs]

208. I was amazed at such venom displayed for what is intended as a good thing.

Using the "ignore" function helped to get me through it and a lot of people had some very good comments. It started out with just a few Recs, but the extreme critics and naysayers kept moving it up in the forum until at last it got 10.

Just yesterday I looked up more about the EDAR and I found their mission statement.
http://www.edar.org/

Mission

While respecting permanent and temporary housing for the homeless in group settings which use buildings to provide shelter, EDAR addresses the unrepresented hundreds of thousands of homeless people amongst us for whom no beds are available or who are unable or unwilling to participate in those solutions.

Below that it adds:

1. EDAR works with current philanthropic, governmental and religious initiatives who currently work to house the homeless in temporary and permanent housing programs. EDAR units are being used as a “first step” into the homeless shelters for those that are typically reluctant to enter a traditional shelter system. The shelter creates a relationship with the homeless person who is using the EDAR unit and with time, the homeless person will often transition into the shelter’s program.
2. The EDAR units are being used as additional beds in shelters where there is a lack of portable cots for the homeless each night. EDAR users are mobile with the EDAR units during the day, and are allowed to enter the shelter grounds and sleep in a designated area. This provides the shelter extra sleeping units and gives the homeless person much more privacy than the traditional cot on which they might sleep.
3. The EDAR units are also given to homeless clients directly, those who are in need of a more comfortable place to sleep that protects them from the elements, for those who cannot or will not go to a shelter.

I just don't get how this has made some (a few actually) go nuclear. I have read other places about the EDAR and I didn't see any negative comments from those who had actually read about it. It is not the ultimate answer and the EDAR people never claim it to be one. It is simply a step up, an improvement from the way many homeless are now living, and that's a good thing. Or at least it should be.

[bobbolink]

212. Since you want to paint us who disagree as such horrible people, why don't you answer my initial

question?

I've repeatedly asked you to answer this... WHERE Are These To Be Parked At Night?

I know of NOWHERE anywhere close to where I am where these would be allowed. and edited to say OR SAFE!!!!

Why won't you answer this simple question?

Or is it just so much more fun to run down those of us who have realistic objections?

[elocs]

213. Wow! I can see, but can't actually see, the "Ignoreds" are still at it.

This topic as sure lit a flame under them. Who would'a thunk it?

[katty]

210. SUV's big enuf to live in-if you still have one re-decorate