So... If you screwed up, you get bailed out. If you didn't---ZIP.

[panader0]

The banks screwed up and they got billions, the auto makers screwed up, they got billions, the people who bit off more than they could chew on a home screwed up, they get billions. But those folks who didn't get nothing. I've been un/under-employed for almost 6 months. I am a small business owner so I'm not entitled to any unemployment benefits, much less the added benefits going to those on unemployment now. Sure, they didn't screw up, but the point is, if you lived a sane financial life, it doesn't mean you are not hurting. You have to screw up to get help. I will probably lose my company this year. There is just no work going on in construction.
But while those around me get bailed out, I get jack. Alright, I'm through whining now.

[sandnsea]

1. Anybody can apply for adjustment

If your mortgage is above 31% of your income, you can apply. And if you make all your reduced payments on time, you get $1,000 applied to the principle of your loan.

[tk2kewl]

4. An if your morgate is less than 31% of you income because you are frugal?

Is it too late to over borrow so I can join the bailout club?

[Oregone]

10. Further, even if this is the case and you aren't "troubled"...

Cutting your monthly payments would seriously help you contribute to a national recovery. The more people that are "helped" (pour less money in interest to banks) can pour more money into the economy.

[tk2kewl]

19. That's assuming I would spend it rather than save it until I had a good reason to spend it.

:eyes:

consumerism sucks

[Oregone]

53. Hell, we just "borrowed" $250 billion in tax cuts on this hope

:)

So its not dead. But if every last consumer substantially had more cash in their pockets every single month, it could possible synergistically stimulate a recovery. Otherwise, at least itd make sure everyone stayed in their house and built equity.

[CreekDog]

12. if it helps the housing market, then you will benefit too

and i wouldn't trade being in foreclosure or sweating buckets all these months for the benefits they will get.

my reward is sleeping well at night.

[tk2kewl]

13. not saying i would trade places...

but my taxes will pay to bail people out who didn't have the sense to save for a rainy day, while i am digging into my rainy day savings to pay my taxes.

[sandnsea]

26. There are places where that's impossible

Which has been part of the problem. We almost bought because I was terrified I was going to be priced out of a place to live altogether. The only solution I could think of was to try to lock in a mortgage payment. But I looked at the way Wells Fargo manipulated their "good faith" proposals, and said no thanks. Wells Fargo is supposed to be one of the good ones, but they did the same thing as everybody else. I am so lucky I said no.

[tk2kewl]

30. Well I live on Long Island, NY

It has been impossible, as you say, for many people. But with good planning and some luck I have bought two homes (sold the first) over the past 18 years and have never paid more than 31% of income towards my mortgage. An no I am not making mega bucks (I am a civil servant).

[sandnsea]

32. Bought the first home in 1990?

Because you had a stable govt job and could easily get a mortgage? And then watched your property value explode? Uh huh.

Be grateful.

[tk2kewl]

35. as I said... there was some luck involved...

and I am grateful. But I didn't take out a second mortgage to buy a boat or double the size of my house or build a swimming pool. People who did and got in over their heads will get a benefit unavailable to me.

[sandnsea]

38. And someone who is 25 or 30?

What about them? A contractor who adds value to his home, buys a fixer-upper and takes out a second, what about them? People with medical bills? There are so many other scenarios that took place, it makes me sick that so many people who are really well off always look to believe the worst in others instead of acknowledging the reality for so many.

[tk2kewl]

42. I don't doubt there are deserving scenarios...

Including, but left out of your list, unsophisticated buyers taken advantage of by predatory lenders. But in my neck of the woods, at least, there were many people who lived like millionaires by leveraging their home equity, and now people who didn't are expected to bail them out too. There has to be a better formula.

[ShortnFiery]

79. There is NO bail-out club for anyone but The Banking Industry. The interest rates will be ...

examined for predatory lending. If your neighbor gleans a lower interest rate and can STAY in their home, that will help the price of your home to remain stable.

There's NO bail-out here ... it's called doing The Right Moral Actions. Nobody is getting screwed but some people are getting a hand up.

It's BEYOND time that us little people stop being petty over *the scraps* such as keeping people in their homes when it's truly The Banking Industry and Corporate Greed that got us into this financial crisis.

Focus your ire toward Wall Street not Main Street.

[panader0]

7. What income? I don't have one at the moment.

I don't have a mortgage either. It took me 26 years of hard work and payments to buy my land. I built my own house. Now there is no work around here at all. I'm sure there are many others like me, who tried to do the right thing, paid their bills, and are now in trouble. But we don't qualify for the help going to those who didn't.

[sandnsea]

24. I didn't do anything wrong either

That and a dollar will buy me a cup of coffee.

I need the economy to get better so I can keep what little income I have so I can pay my bills.

What the hell is wrong with people who don't get that.

[Saphire]

56. I hear you. I work in (what used to be) construction, too, here in Texas.

and I think my job is going to end the first quarter of this year. I work for a small construction company.

anyway, I have always lived on a cash basis, except for small car loans, never bought a house because I never wanted to go into that much debt. I've been downsizing for a few years, and now.....I feel sorta cheated because I did the right thing. We live in a small rent house with our two kids, have two cars that are now paid off and live as frugally as we can. Now, some idiot goes out and buys a home they can't afford, and I know it shouldn't, but it really pisses me off that I have to bail them out.

[TwilightGardener]

2. Sad but true--but a falling tide will take down all the boats, I guess, so

not sure there's any way around rescuing the stupid and greedy.

[liberal N proud]

3. The problem lies where their screw-ups are effecting all of us

Do you let them go under and take everyone down? And I do mean everyone. Or do you bail them out to save what you can from being sucked down the shit hole with them?

Yeah, it really pisses you off to think that so many crooks will get away with this. All we can shoot for is something to prevent this from happening again.

[Cronus Protagonist]

5. Try being a renter - we're completely ignore over and over again

Including here on DU where the majority here, as homeowners, never like to call for any support for renters. It's as if we didn't exist.

[panader0]

11. Agree totally. How about a freeze on rental rates for a year or so.

I'm sure there are many unscrupulous landlords who are raising their rates about now.

[Cronus Protagonist]

46. I want nationwide rent control

Max raise in any year = cost of living and if it goes down, so do rents. I'm tired of paychecks containing less and less money and my rent going up at TEN percent a year!! I can't stand these rich bastards that screw their tenants and whine about paying their taxes.

[dysfunctional press]

51. LOTS of landlords are nowhere near being "rich bastards"...

my wife and i used to own a two-flat on the northside of chicago- we lived in the first floor unit and rented out the second floor. in 11 years, we had 3 separate tenants- two who stayed awhile, one that was gone in less than 6 months.

we thought that we were very good landlords- we allowed pets at no extra charge- one dog and/or two cats were allowed...and when/if the tenants went on vacation, we'd watch their pets at no charge. it was a one-bedroom apartment with a large walk-in closet that even served as the bedroom for one tenant's brother for several months. we installed a dishwasher and garbage disposal in the kitchen, there was free use of the laundry in the basement-tenant only had to provide their own detergent, etc.; and we also provided directv w/ALL the 'premium' movie channels and a dvr FREE to the tenants. also- we only asked for first months rent and 1/4 of the security deposit to move-in, that is to say that we allowed the tenant to pay the security deposit in 4 monthly installments, and if one of those months was december, they could postpone it for that month(two of them moved in in novembers, so they were able to take advantage of that to have more money for xmas). we also allowed the long-term tenants to use the security deposit as last months rent...AND- we wrote in the lease that tenants were allowed to break the lease w/no penalty with a 45-day notice. rent also included heat, cooking gas, and water. electricity was up to the tenant.

[NC_Nurse]

54. Thanks for defending us. I own several rentals. I charge reasonable rent, keep

them in great shape, allow animals, and I have recently lowered the rent for one of my tenants who is out of work. National rent control will
just put us small rental owners in a bind. I am barely breaking even, but I bought the places in order to have some retirement income someday.
Not to be stinking rich. Sheesh.


:eyes:

[Cronus Protagonist]

66. 99 percent of 'em are nasty thieves

Just my experience. I'll come rent from you if you expand your real estate business to LA.

[dysfunctional press]

70. 99%??? hardly.

i doubt that i'd be willing to rent to someone with your attitude. sorry.

[Cronus Protagonist]

75. haha... you betray your judgmentalism

I should have said 99% of the ones I've had over the last 25 years. My true and real experience of having several landlords, all but one who were nasty thieves.

[dysfunctional press]

77. "99 percent of 'em are nasty thieves"...and I'M the one with judgmentalism issues???

:crazy: :rofl: :crazy: :rofl:

[Rabrrrrrr]

14. Try being a childless unmarried renter with no debt and a job

who has purposely NOT bought a house because he knew he couldn't afford it yet.

[The2ndWheel]

23. Add to that, the job isn't high paying

A person like that barely contributes anything. They might help crumble the economy, and have no little future tax payers running around. Probably worth more dead.

:toast:

[ozu]

33. high five

At this point, I wish I'd irresponsibly dove into an obviously overinflated housing market. Then I could be bailed out while making ends meet, and eventually work towards establishing equity in an actual home... it's the American dream.

Instead I'm just a lowly renter.

[MilesColtrane]

57. Oh, we're buying houses all right...it's just that they're somebody elses.

[Rabrrrrrr]

63. LOL! Your post makes me laugh, while also making me cry.

And of course, we'll get no thank you for it, we'll just be asked to work more holidays and afternoons ("You don't have a family!") and pay more taxes so that they can deduct more from theirs because "dude, children are expensive!" and, quite possibly, so they can do "home improvements", and of course we renters will never see adjustments on our rent for the tax deductions our landlords get for the "home improvements" they do.

[dysfunctional press]

72. "adjustments on our rent for tax deductions our landlords get for the "home improvements" they do.."

what is it that you don't understand, taxes or property management...?

when a landlord does home improvement, the tax deductions basically mean that he doesn't have to pay income taxes on the money that was used to do the improvements- and in the case of an owner-occupied two-flat, they only get half the cost deducted. and you think that when a landlord improves the building you live in that you should get a rent decrease...? :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[Rabrrrrrr]

76. I understand both, but thanks for asking.

The issue is, there's a whole lot of free money about to handed out - either directly through actual giving, or indirectly through tax deductions - all of it ostensibly to help people with "housing issues" or whatever one wants to call it.

But the reality is that the renters will not see a dime of it in any way, shape, or form, even though it's partly their money.

Think a landlord is gonna say "Hey - the gummint gave a nice big tax break this year for capital improvements, so we're not gonna raise your rent!"?

No, of course not. A few honest, ethical ones might, but mostly they won't. They'll probably say, "hey - you live in a more valuable now, so you need to pay extra".

And we'll say, "But - that was OUR tax money that let you improve the place!"

And they'll say "Too bad"

and I'll sit back and pine and rage that the law against double jeopardy should apply in this situation.

[Pirate Smile]

6. The problem is that the people who screwed up are pulling us all down with them because of how

the entire system is working right now.

Help them to help ourselves. It sucks but that is why they are doing it.

[ShortnFiery]

78. The #1 PEOPLE who screwed up is THE BANKING INDUSTRY, yet we don't demand punishment for

them. They make our investment world go around. Therefore, yes, I WANT to help my neighbor if they were roped into a high percentage mortgage. If they do not foreclose, then the price of my home will not plummet. It's a win-win situation for us "little people" UNLIKE us taxpayers being forced to bail out the damn BANKS ... and say thank-you sirs, please lend to me now? :crazy:

[Fireweed247]

8. hang in there

there might be some construction jobs on the way

Obama Signs Stimulus Yesterday. Today, I Got A New Job.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5082675&mesg_id=5082675

[TahitiNut]

9. I want my free boat ride on the Hudson, dammit!! It's not fair that I miss out because I fly safely!

:eyes:

[tk2kewl]

17. invalid analogy

the economy is not being destroyed by Canada geese, it is being destroyed by the greedy and the stupid

[TahitiNut]

20. Turn in your "Metaphor Police" badge. You don't seem to be qualified.

:dunce:

[tk2kewl]

25. how is that?

...and what's up with the dunce smiley?

[leftstreet]

18. ROFL

Post of the day!

:rofl:

[blondeatlast]

45. ...

:thumbsup:

[NNN0LHI]

58. Yep thats a DUZY for sure

[TahitiNut]

67. Arigato, Donsan.

[T Wolf]

15. A parallel situation is college financial aid. Work hard and save up and you get squat. Spend

all your money (e.g., buy your kid a car) and presto - financial aid comes rolling in. Financial aid officials at college fairs actually tell you that.

Everyone needs two sets of books - not just the rich.

[hlthe2b]

16. I have to admit feeling like this is killing the chance for others

to buy houses. That those who were continuing to save, rather than get into some kind of risky mortgage they couldn't afford, may now receive the ultimate punishment. That is, they may not being able to get a loan, nor will they reap any of the benefits that others-- who were less fiscally responsible-- may receive.

[neverforget]

27. The real punishment will be when it comes to time to pay back what

we are borrowing now. That is really going to hurt.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

21. I'm upset too

In my roughly 15 years as an adult, I've done everything I could to keep myself debt-free, not overspend, not buy a bunch of ridiculous stuff on credit that I couldn't afford, etc., etc. And so, I live a fairly Spartan existence in a tiny, tiny little box in NYC. Meanwhile, I've been watching as all of my friends bought themselves huge McMansions (and several of these McMansion owners are single...three spare goddamn bedrooms for their dog) that they didn't need and can't afford; I watched a friend in college rack up $60,000 worth of credit card debt -- primarily for video games, computers and other fancy and unnecessary electronics.

And what do I get for being responsible??? The government is apparently going to take my money and give it to all the fuck-ups in the country. That's my reward.

I don't feel so much pissed as I do stupid. I tried to be good and I got duped. There's absolutely no reason to be fiscally responsible in the society we live in. Actually, there's apparently no reason to be responsible for anything in America anymore. Lie the country into war? Get off scott free. Use the money of others to gamble recklessly to fatten your own pockets? We'll give you the responsible people's money if you lose. Heedlessly spent yourself into the poorhouse to live a life that you didn't need and couldn't afford? We'll give you more money from the responsible people.

I think I'm done. What a huge fucking joke this all is...

[taught_me_patience]

55. I feel the same way you do.

I chose not to participate in the housing boom because I couldn't afford a mortgage. I chose to rent instead and now I feel like I'm getting kicked in the nutsack.

[Saphire]

59. In the same boat here. I feel "screwn".

[Barack_America]

22. Where did you get that information from? The MSM? The GOP?

Certainly not the White House:

Borrowers Who Are Current on Their Mortgage Are Asking:

What help is available for borrowers who stay current on their mortgage payments but have seen their homes decrease in value?

Under the Homeowner Affordability and Stability Plan, eligible borrowers who stay current on their mortgages but have been unable to refinance to lower their interest rates because their homes have decreased in value, may now have the opportunity to refinance into a 30 or 15 year, fixed rate loan. Through the program, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will allow the refinancing of mortgage loans that they hold in their portfolios or that they placed in mortgage backed securities.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/09/02/18/Help-for-homeowners/

[panader0]

28. See post number seven.

[Barack_America]

34. So what are you expecting?

Seriously, what are you expecting the government to do for you?

[panader0]

39. How about one of those "shovel ready" jobs?

I am more than willing to work for, to earn, everything. I don't want a freebee. But there are no jobs now. Most of those I know are laid off. I just want a decent job.

[Barack_America]

41. The Census is hiring.

This is the route my mother (also laid-off) is pursuing.

http://2010.census.gov/2010censusjobs/

And if you'd prefer an infrastructure job, the money for your state will be going your Governor for allocation. Make sure you let her know that you're waiting for those funds to be properly allocated.

[Blue_In_AK]

29. As a new social security recipient, I get a one-time $250 check.

Woo-hoo.

[sandnsea]

31. You're complaining?

Seriously?? You???

[Blue_In_AK]

36. No, I'm not.

Just stating a fact.

Actually, I kind of wish people would STOP giving me extra money. With the inflated permanent fund dividends we got last year thanks to Sarah's short-sighted "energy rebate" to every man, woman and child in Alaska, we now have to pay an additional $5,500 of taxes, which means we have to tap our IRAs, which means we'll have to report an additional $5,500 as income next year, which means....

And on and on it goes.

I'll probably end up applying the $250 to my tax bill.

[Greyhound]

37. Define screwing up. I'd say using your license to create money out of nothing

to make a fortune and then using that money to multiply your fortune over and over, and then finally, getting the suckers you ripped off to pick up the bill for it is pretty far from screwing up.

[jmg257]

40. Hey - it's your patriotic and social duty to be happy about it. Maybe your turn will come...

[ShortnFiery]

43. It was emphasized that this is for "the middle class" not people who bought Mc Mansions.

Plus, it's tailored to those who were "preyed upon" with higher percentage rate than what they truly qualify for.

It's called justice. Plus, if some of our neighbors can bargain down to 7% mortgage, then there will be FEWER FORECLOSURES to bring down the cost of our houses. :-)

We have to stop "fighting over the scraps" while the undetected "Bernie Madoffs" of this Nation continue to steal us blind.

Focus!

[panader0]

48. What is "preyed upon"?

Sure there are unscupulous loaners. But those who don't read the fine print of the main deal of their life are not preyed upon but dumb.

[Robbien]

62. The rich who started this mess are getting billions of our money

Do you start threads whining "its no fair that the rich are getting something and I am not". No, you are silent.

The average Joe gets suckered into one of these liar loans upon which the rich made so much money and now the government is giving them a helping hand out of the scam. YOU start screaming. IT's NO FAIR, you whine.

The rich can be given your money and it appears that is okay with you. But when an average Joe gets a fair shake you are OUTRAGED starting thread after thread, post after post.

[emilyg]

44. k/r

I'll whine with you. :hug:

[blondeatlast]

47. I'd rather that my neighborhood not be littered with rotting foreclosures myself, so I applaud this

action--and I have a traditional fixed-rate with a very large down payment and even a little equity (bought in 2006).

[Lance_Boyle]

49. Take from the responsible and give to the stupid/greedy.

It's the American way.

And yeah, it sucks.

[Lost in CT]

50. I get what you are saying and I am in the same boat.

They only seem to bailout the fuck-ups... who go out and fuck up again.

[Skittles]

52. that would be correct

[MilesColtrane]

60. Moral Hazard...it's not just for Wall Street now.

[treestar]

61. Those who screw up must always be punished, right?

that's the most important thing.

I never bought a home, so i guess I never "screwed up" but I don't find it bothers me that they want to keep people in these houses rather than having large numbers of them empty.

I once did a practice title search in my neighborhood and learned that in the 1930s, the local rich family, the DuPonts, bought up all the farms in the area. I guess those people had "screwed up" so it was just too bad, right?

[tpsbmam]

64. Not everyone screwed up.....

I'll use my neighbors as examples. They could well afford their house when they bought it. Then he lost his job through no fault of his -- the boss was a total nut and did some incredibly sleazy stuff, including my neighbor's paycheck bouncing a couple of times (this despite the fact that the boss/owner was living the life of the rich man he is). Lots of people have lost their jobs due to layoffs -- what did they do wrong? If they bought a modest home they could afford 10 years ago and now can't pay the mortgage through no fault of their own, what did they do wrong?

My neighbor had to work two jobs (one full-time and one part-time) after that and still didn't make what he had with the one job, for which he was recruited and moved here. His wife also worked 40+ hours per week when she could -- they have young children and she wasn't always able to due to childcare costs (wasn't worth it to work if they had to pay full-time childcare -- she doesn't make enough). But there were times she worked at night and he worked during the day and she had more than one job when he couldn't land a second job -- she rarely slept since she was taking care of the children during the day.

Like many people in this economic fiasco, they bought a house they could afford and, due to economic realities, they now can't afford it. He has now moved 4 hours away to take a job in his profession but still only makes enough to cover the mortgage and her car payment -- there are some little realities like food for the children & heat that make them currently late on most of their bills. He now makes 35% less than he did with the original job. He better get a second job soon or they're screwed -- he's been looking but hasn't found anything yet. There's lots of competition for the crappy part-time jobs he's been applying for.

[NNN0LHI]

65. Get zip? I have heard if the house next to me goes into foreclosure the value of mine goes down 9%

I don't want any more foreclosures if possible.

Don

[Mr. Hyde]

68. They'll probably all be section 8 homes before it's over

which will work out well because we'll probably all be section 8 renters before this over too.

[riverdeep]

69. Yes, it's known as a 'moral hazard'.

You set yourself up to reward bad or irresponsible behavior. The people who are most responsible, lets call them the fattest of the fat cats i.e. top one percent, are not only not going to be punished, but will most likely come out far ahead by buying real estate, commodities, and other valuables at firesale prices. It's almost as if it were planned...

Anyway, the ship is sinking. You can't really worry too much about stuff when you're taking on water. Maybe next time, Americans won't hire Republicans to run the country. Nah, they'll develop amnesia by then or history will be rewritten so that Bush is considered brilliant like Reagan, who also screwed us over.

[DemoTex]

74. Exactly. I'm in a 4-engine DC-7B. Engines #1 and #4 are on fire ..

Engines #2 and #3, the inboard R-3350s, are running perfectly .. like a sewing machine (as advertised by the manufacturer). Unless I take drastic action (pull the fire handles) with engines #1 and #4, the fires will get into the wing and the fuel. Then the two good, innocent inboard engines (2 & 3) will take the plunge with me, the crew, the passengers, and the flaming #1 and #4 engines. We will all end up in a smoking hole in the ground with the NTSB kicking the tin and asking, "Why?". Even if I pull the fire handles on the flaming engines (discharge the extinguishers, shut-off fuel and hydraulics, feather propellers, etc), there is no guarantee that we will make it .. but I must try.

The O/P's whine sounds like a GOP talking point. This is just part of the flaming wreckage of the Bu$hco Regime. Bu$hco allowed the financial sector to pander to one of the basest forms of human nature: E-Z Money. We said nothing (well, we did) and the telltale signs (low oil pressure, high cylinder head temperature, excessive fuel flow, to strain the metaphor) have become raging fires that threaten the craft and all aboard.


EAL Douglas DC-7B

[adamuu]

71. It's kind of a mess and not exactly fair

Sorry about that.

[sufrommich]

73. You must not live in a neighborhood littered with

foreclosed houses.The benefit is that your house value does not plummet to next to nothing.

[olegramps]

80. I understand your concerns, but rethink your position.

If you are a small business owner, especially in construction, the best thing that could happen for you is for the stimulus plan to kick start the construction industry. I don't see the reduction of the payments to be a bailout in the least since they just extend the loan and will make it possible for many to stay in their homes. Would you rather be living in a neighborhood with 20% of the homes vacant and going to the dogs? That would have a big impact on your bottom line worth.

What would really jump start the economy would be the rescinding of the huge tax breaks that were given the most wealthy and a dramatic increase in inheritance taxes. The ill gotten gains of the Wall Street rip offs should be confiscated through heavy taxation. A tax of the top wealthy of 70% would not be unreasonable and confiscation of estates over five million.