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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 11:16 AM
Original message
Asking Our Allies for More in Afghanistan
Edited on Thu Feb-19-09 11:18 AM by bigtree

THERE'S clearly an increasingly desperate U.S. need for other nations to commit more resources and troops to NATO's floundering efforts in Afghanistan, but, there's just not enough of a defined mission from the U.S. to convince other nations to send even more money and lives to support the American cause there. Still, the new administration is bound to ask them - partly because Pres. Obama has pledged to exercise multilateralism in his strident criticisms during the campaign of Bush's international shortcomings -- and, mostly because the U.S. dominance in the Afghanistan mission (stemming from our original retaliatory entrance into the country) has stifled the necessary diplomatic progress which would transform the mission from a military one to a diplomatic effort providing critical aid and support for the struggling population.

Over the Bush term, the NATO mission in Afghanistan was kept afloat by their unceasing fearmongering - aided by the unceasing propaganda from the fugitive 9-11 suspects who took advantage of our military's focus on Bush's opportunistic militarism in Iraq and swelled their ranks with individuals compelled to adopt their moniker and their violent tactics as they resisted America's swaggering advance on their territory.

The international coalition which stepped up in Afghanistan in the wake of the 9-11 killings made perfect sense_ until Bush decided that Iraq would make an easy prize and led many of the same countries into their distracting war of opportunity. The collateral effect of the Iraq invasion and occupation was eventually determined by Bush's own intelligence agencies to be fueling and fostering even more individuals resigned to violence against the U.S, our interests, and our allies.

America had lured these allied nations to our defense -- only to deepen their danger and risk with reckless disregard for civilian life or for any pretense of the democratic ideals and principles Bush claimed to be 'spreading' with his unbridled militarism across sovereign borders.

The U.S. invasion and occupation of Afghanistan has not become the pet project of the rest of the world, because, they have witnessed a stubborn adherence by the last administration in Washington to a self-perpetuating policy of military aggression directed, almost exclusively, against the effects of our own destabilizing militarism.

It's a wonder that so many still remain committed to our dual-occupations, until you consider that the likelihood of retaliatory violence threatening their own vulnerable nations comes well before anticipation of any act of terrorism the U.S. might face in our own homeland. They've been horribly compromised by the toxic relationship Bush forged with them out of his craven, blundering ambition to dominate the Middle East with our military forces. They're either with us, or tragically on their own.

Still, the new administration has to ask for help_ "It is a new administration, and the administration is prepared ... to make additional commitments to Afghanistan," U.S. Defense Chief Gates told reporters Wednesday.

"But there clearly will be expectations that the allies must do more as well . . . There is a requirement out there in terms of the desire to have people sign up for additional troops during that period and frankly the response so far has been disappointing," he said.

It's no wonder, though, to find our allies reluctant to commit themselves to more of a mission which has yet to be defined in any significant or comprehensive way; even though that didn't stop the president yesterday from approving the deployment of an additional 17,000 or more troops to Afghanistan.

To get us to that new Afghan strategy, Pres. Obama has created an 'inter-agency task force' to review U.S. policy in Afghanistan and Pakistan which is due to report back to him by the NATO summit in April. Bruce Riedel, a former CIA officer and Brookings fellow, will co-chair the review along with Richard Holbrooke and Under Secretary of Defense for Policy, Michele Flournoy.

That's enough time for the nations who are expected to continue to follow the U.S. in committing even more troops and resources to the NATO effort in Afghanistan to demand their own commitments from Obama that the U.S. will not practice the same type of blustering militarism which marked the last administration's term.

Countries who have already sacrificed lives and livelihoods to the Afghanistan mission, like Canada, welcomed the announced 'surge' of U.S. forces as an opportunity to step back from combat which has had a proportionally devastating effect on their nation's defenders. It will be remarkable to find nations which are eager to commit their troops to an indefinite battle against the specters of America's fugitive terror suspects.

Hopefully, the Obama administration will present as comprehensive a plan for the future of our military forces in Afghanistan as they have for their economic initiatives. Until then, however, it's just not credible for them to ask our allies and others to commit their citizen's lives to what amounts to a self-perpetuating battle against the resistance to their very presence. But, they have to ask . . .
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. End the war in Afghanistan, end the war in Iraq.
They are not wars against terrorists, they are wars to control the regions with oil.

I don't blame other countries for not wanting to get involved.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Pakistan is not a country I would be fooling around with
Nuclear weapons??? just to protect the oil??? total insanity.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think a Taliban takeover of Afghanistan (again) is not in any western country's interest.
Edited on Thu Feb-19-09 11:26 AM by TwilightGardener
Other NATO nations have been victims of Al Qaeda terror, too--they're not just committing soldiers to defend the US. Besides, the US can cash in some old IOU's from WW2--we have helped our allies out in the past. Plus, there's the added risk of nuclear Pakistan coming under increasing influence from extremists in that region--that's a WORLD problem, not just a US problem.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I think the NATO nations realize, more than we do
. . . the perpetuating consequences of this type of military occupation. I think they also must realize that the Taliban isn't going to be eliminated from Afghanistan as much as it can be neutralized or reformed by non-military actions involving aid and assistance to the rest of Afghanistan.

I think they also are aware of the counter-productive effects of this type of insurgent battle. I don't believe most nations are eager to continue the same policy of containment, led by the grudging U.S. military forces. There's the U.S. fight against 'al-Qaeda' and there's the fight against those who identify themselves as 'Taliban' in Afghanistan and Pakistan. I'm certain many of our allies are eager to separate our 'hunt' for the 9-11 fugitives from the mission to achieve 'stability' in the two countries.

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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. But we're not in Afghanistan for mere revenge--the Taliban have harbored
and continue to shelter AQ--and if they go back to ruling much of the country unimpeded (rather than being outlaws on the run from us), then we will face continued danger from their support of terrorist activities--it all comes down to whether you believe that we face a very serious threat to our safety from that region, or not. I happen to believe that those who struck us before will do it again--they hate us, they want us to die as a culture. We're not there to occupy and exploit, as we are in Iraq--it's very wrong to conflate our motives in these wars. If Obama, Biden, Hillary, Jim Jones, Robert Gates are to be believed, we will be in worse shape if we pack up and leave--and since I don't have access to intelligence reports, I have no other inclination but to trust that judgment. And it's impossible to separate the economic/infrastructure/aid mission from the military mission, because the problems are so intertwined--you can't just put western aid workers there to rebuild and make the civilians happy like some Peace Corps thing--they'd be sitting ducks. You can't just funnel money into the government--there's no telling where that will end up (and we've been doing that for years anyway). It will continue to take a coordinated effort of primarily military resources to fight extremists and simultaneously help the civilian population--the civilians don't want the Taliban, either, and we need to keep it that way. Yes, keeping troops there inflames the extremists, but handing them a victory isn't going to help keep us safe either.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. you can't deny the primary mission to capture or kill the perpetrators of the 9-11 attacks
. . . which is the sum and substance of the original authorization to use military force - is the dominate focus of the U.S. effort there.

Certainly there are other motives for NATO troops in Afghanistan, but my point is that the retaliatory mission of the U.S. overshadows all else to the degree that other nations are becoming increasingly unwilling to continue that adversarial relationship with any and all resistance to our occupation. Certainly the military will need to play a role in the diplomatic efforts or aid and reconstruction, but the military is also engaged in a grudging struggle against every hint of resistance to our presence; themselves conflating every act of resistance with the original mission to capture and kill the perpetrators of the original attack on America.

We may well not intend to occupy (and exploit) Afghanistan, but Obama's military commanders are predicting years and years of a military struggle. It's not clear whether that intention will be in the best interest of our allies if our military posture against everyone in Afghanistan or Pakistan who says they're 'Taliban' continues into infinity.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. If we don't capture the original perpetrators, then they will act again.
They are in a position to act again, and they intend to act again, and not just in the US--they are regrouping. This is not my assessment, this is the assessment of terrorism experts, various analysts, that I have read and listened to--many who are Democrats or at least politics-neutral in terms of national security. Bush/Cheney endangered us further by allowing that which was not killed to grow stronger, more defiant. There seems to be the reasoning that if we just let those bastards go, and forget getting "revenge", that'll be the last we hear from them--they are just pussycats now, they're reformed, Bin Laden is dead/on dialysis, whatever. Name me even a HANDFUL of Democratic Congresspersons or administration officials who don't believe we must stop the Taliban and allow the region (not just Afgh.) to come under some sort of non-extremist stability. That sort of consensus among our own party members leads me to believe that this mission is still justified (although it was severely shortchanged and has taxed our patience and resources), and if it's justified for us, it's justified for other NATO countries, because they are targets too.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Leaders of Pakistan and Afghanistan believe there should be a distinction
Edited on Thu Feb-19-09 01:09 PM by bigtree
. . . between those 'Taliban' who actually threaten us and those 'Taliban' who are not.

Both nations have advocated talks with the 'Taliban'. I imagine other nations would welcome a deescalation of retaliation against those who had nothing at all to do with the 9-11 attacks. Certainly you don't believe that all of those in Afghanistan or Pakistan who call themselves 'Taliban' are responsible or complicit in the Sept. 11 killings in America?

If we don't achieve some sort of separation of our retaliatory interests from our nation-building ones, the NATO effort will always be seen as unjustified U.S. aggression and vengeful at its root.

Remember, these other nations are 'targets' in the most part, because of the negative influence of our destabilizing militarism.

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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Again, "retaliatory"--I have explained to you why our military offensive
there is NOT JUST retaliatory, it's an attempt to PREVENT future attacks (including nuclear) by crippling/dismantling that network and by preventing an extremist regime from regaining influence and ALLOWING such a terror network to flourish (and extend further into Pakistan). Other countries who help us in this regard don't see military action in Afgh. as "unjustified aggression", they see this as in their self-interests too, to varied extents, no matter how reluctant they may be to send troops. Leaders in Afghanistan and Pakistan are trying to appease both the US/NATO, and the extremists in their countries, AND their citizens, all at the same time--they want our military/financial aid, but are mostly incapable of preventing the rise of terrorist elements in their midst--their public statements are perhaps to be taken with a grain of salt.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. can you tell me why the ranks of 'al-Qaeda' and the 'Taliban' have swelled in the region
. . . despite the 7-year effort of our military occupation in Afghanistan?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Troop levels, terrain, economic/cultural factors, porous border with Pakistan looking the other way,
weak leadership. We did not give it the attention and resources it deserved--we diverted all of that to Iraq. And when the civilians can't or won't resist the Taliban, and we don't offer them much better as an alternative in terms of economic opportunity and safety, enough to overcome their natural preference for those who at least share their culture and religion, then we really start to spin our wheels--that's what been happening. Bush and Cheney were war criminals not just for Iraq but for allowing a previously winnable mission to devolve into a treading-water exercise, with more casualties (military AND civilian) as a result. But I don't see an alternative for Obama, for now.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. End the BushCo Wars!
Just stop them dead. If there is going to be war, start a fresh, new one, with some kind of legality and plan of action.

Of course, after several hours of peace and relative prosperity, the PTB might decide they like it enough to let it continue for a few decades....especially if we can put a big enough political gun to their heads...
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-09 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
13. .
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