Listening to Rachael and her guest talking about torture

[OwnedByFerrets]

Someone please explain to me WHY WHY WHY we are even questioning the investigation of torture? May be a rhetorical question, but dammit, it shouldn't be. Torture IS a war crime. When did ANYONE become immune from being held accountable for war crimes??

[liberalmuse]

1. I never in my life...

thought Americans would ever allow this shit to happen. I can't even believe people are going on the tv and defending torture. It makes me sick. I thought I was against the death penalty, but I'll gladly lower my standards for the war criminals that made up the Bush cabal. Off with their fucking heads!

[jtrockville]

2. I don't get it either. It runs my stomach to think what we've become.

The United States of America TORTURES people. TO DEATH.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

3. I'm nearly finished with Jane Mayer's "The Dark Side" (excellent book BTW)

It's like watching a literal train-wreck. It's literally jaw-dropping the behind-the-scenes machinations that people like (primarily) Dick Cheney, David Addington, Donald Rumsfeld, and John Yoo were involved in to justify the secret renditions, abuse and murder of detainees, and all of the other constitutional abuses and usurpations of power that Bushco engaged in during the last 8 years. I never in my life imagined that people at the highest rungs of government, some of whom weren't even elected, would force us to seriously debate refusing to adhere to the Geneva Conventions, the legality and/or utility of torturing prisoners, rendering them to torture-happy countries, and holding them indefinitely without charges or trial, etc. There apparently were definitely some principled people within the Bush (mis-)administration that weren't fully on board with what was going on and tried to fight it like Robert Mueller, Colin Powell, Jack Goldsmith, Jack Comey, and even John Ashcroft (to some extent) but they seemed to be always outgunned and/or outmaneuvered by Cheney and Addington or backstabbed by Gonzales and then pushed out of the (mis-)administration or left in frustration.

Seriously, :wtf:

At one point appearently some of the "forces of light" within the (mis-)administration had had proposed plans to completely expose everything, close Gitmo, and PROSECUTE anybody who appeared to have engaged in torture/physical abuse of detainees but it, unfortunately, never got off the ground (thanks largely to Cheney, Addington, and Rumsfeld). So, why would it be that hard and/or divisive for Obama's administration to go there? We never withdrew from the Geneva Conventions (which compels prosecution of abuses) but Bushco chose not to follow it so they deserve everything that they got coming to them. There should be NO flinching away or "moving on" from all of THIS!!!

After reading "The Dark Side" I have absolutely :nopity: for anybody who knowingly and willingly killed, tortured, or otherwise abused fellow human beings - as loathsome as they may well be.

[spanone]

4. they MUST be held accountable....