Is the FAFSA form too complicated?

[InkAddict]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/22/education/22fafsa.html?hp

Most everyone agrees that something is very wrong with the six-page federal form for families seeking help with college costs.

Created in 1992 to simplify applying for financial aid, it has become so intimidating — with more than 100 questions — that critics say it scares off the very families most in need, preventing some teenagers from going to college.

Then, too, some families have begun paying for professional help with the form, known as the Fafsa,a situation that experts say indicates just how far awry the whole process has gone.

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Quite frankly - Why is there an assumption that parental data should be included somehow in the selection process - If one can kick out the 18 year old to fend for themselves, why then is parental income any criteria at all for the lending to the potential student -- family contribution, indeed. A decent HS resume, essay, and continuing satisfactory progress while in school should be the only criteria necessary, one time. There are also too many students who don't belong in school since studying seems the last thing on their minds. Form should be simple: Most 18-year-old are broke or have minimal personal savings; non-traditional students need to be non-traditional in how they meet the cost of "going back"; they need to pay for it without a loan as they missed the boat. (BEING A DEVIL'S ADVOCATE, HERE - I KNOW I'VE NOT CONSIDERED SO MANY POSSIBLE SCENARIOS).

Furthermore, If, in their wisdom, lenders provide funding to others (parents) for the purpose of assisting the student, based in part on the data supplied on a FAFSA form,i.e., family contribution, and guaranteed by SALLIE, and said loans are approved, should not these same CORPORATE BANKING BRANIACS have some interest in creating an environment in which they'll be able to get paid back, by their own crystal-ball analysis, by making sure the job "environment" of the applicants have at the very least the potential to remain somewhat stable? While doing that for one's child is a leap of faith, having one's job shipped off to low-cost foreigners when one has become "old" enough to have a college student in the first place, is certainly no way to prevent deferrment and defaults on those loans. I see more lending practices here very much like "no doc" home loans, though perhaps more like "no analysis" practices. Perhaps a payroll deduction of student loan debt or family medical and eldercare costs, should be a "red flag" that an American employee should be RIFFED last and hired first - there are already programs to provide for children under 18; having them was a personal choice and they didn't ask to be here, though vastly underfunded.

Believe me, if I had known how corporate America was going to pad their profits by RIFFing American IT, I'd never have been so willing a partner in these "leaps of faith" that can't be controlled or minimized by the applicant or the student when their employers tell them, "it's nothing personal, just business."

TPTB ABSOLUTELY KNEW THEY'D BEEN CREATING THE PERFECT STORM. They've been playing financial eugenics for too, too long. What's it gonna cost them?

OK - Flame away!

[AyanEva]

1. "Is the FAFSA form too complicated?"

YES. Those things are as bad as tax forms.

[Wickerman]

2. Interestingly, I read this as I watch some talking head on FtN

talking about how easy it has been to get a mortgage. Much easier to buy too much house than it is to send a deserving kid to college. We bought a new house last year (we bought what we can easily afford) and it was a breeze compared to the FAFSA. It is worse than doing taxes. Buying a house is like doing a 1040EZ.

We've been struggling with the FAFSA and CSS as our senior prepares for college. It is way too freaking difficult. Add to the fact that we have blended family issues. She's my step-daughter and dad lives away. You have to get personal finance details for all parents, juggle that and get the FAFSA info in right as you get your tax info. Got a late W2? You might be screwed at the college you are at.

[surrealAmerican]

47. While it is better to fill out the FAFSA after you've done your taxes, ...

... you CAN fill it out before, based on estimates. I just did that myself. I'll need to file a correction once my taxes are done, but since some schools want the data now, I filed now.
The FAFSA is, at least, much easier than that CSS profile.

[billyoc]

3. No flames, but if you've graduated from High School and passed your SAT's,

you can fill out a form. :eyes:

[cloudbase]

4. The FAFSA isn't particularly complex,

but it has absolutely no relationship to financial reality.

[tammywammy]

24. That I completely agree with. n/t

[LeftyMom]

43. That's the truth of it.

My sister got absolutely no financial aid. Our Dad is middle class but not exactly rolling in money- he owns a small house in a modest neighborhood, he's never bought a brand new car- and our Mom (the non-custodial parent in this case) hasn't contributed substantially to my sister's financial needs, school or otherwise, since Reagan was in office. But since both their incomes are factored in, and since a couple living under the same roof and supporting one household on their combined incomes would be quite prosperous, she doesn't get a thing.

Luckily she got a job at a company that reimburses some of her school expenses and works around her school schedule (there aren't exactly a lot of jobs with perks like that around, she knows she's very lucky,) and between that, doing her first two years at community college to save money, living at home and going to the (relatively cheap) local state school, and my Dad working himself half to death to pay for all of it, she's still getting an education. If she lived someplace where the state college system was more expensive, or where she didn't live close enough to an affordable college to commute, or if she didn't have a parent who was willing to work like a slave to pay for all of it, she'd either not be able to go to school at all or would have a heavy loan burden when she was finished. Or she'd have had to go into a more lucrative field on graduation, rather than teaching, which is what she wants to do.

[BlooInBloo]

5. Millions of kids fill it out every year. Jeebus. People will whine about everything...

Damn country has fallen out of the stupid tree, and is hitting every branch on the way down.

[Deja Q]

12. Too much MTV and 'Star Wars'.

:D

We're dumbed down and then called dumb. Gotta love it. :evilgrin:

[Oregone]

6. Hell, its free money...

Get off your damn X-Box, sit your ass down, and fill that shit out. At least prove you want to goto college before its forked over.

[Deja Q]

10. No, it's a loan. Gets to be paid back.

I'll just got for straight A's if I can. May as well look employable. :D

[Doremus]

15. Free money? If you want to call a $500 Pell and all the SuperPlus loans we wanted.

I don't know who is supposedly getting all this "free money," but it sure as hell wasn't our family and we are no Rockefellers believe me. We're talking maybe $40K AGI in a good year.

FAFSA is a fricking joke. Worse. It gets hopes up only to smash them.

[Oregone]

21. Ah, things changed then...

I got a couple grand in Pell grants a decade ago (per year), and I thought my private University used the results from it to create a financial aid packet for me to cover the rest of tuition. I took no loans at all

[tammywammy]

23. No, they still use it like that

I currently get loans, pay out of pocket and get a grant through my university.

[Oregone]

26. Well then....

I stick to my original statement: free money. :)

Hell, the point is that it might be difficult, but you get something out of it, so whats the big deal? Maybe its difficulty deters those who are not serious about attending college (those who wont work more than 15 minutes on a form) from getting allocated funds.

[Doremus]

30. You got $2K in grants?

Are you and your parents under the poverty threshold?
Are/were you on a scholarship of some kind?

As I said above, our income was at most $40K and we qualified for zilch other than $500 Pell. Several of my son's friends said that's all they got so I know we weren't the only ones.

A friend of his went to a local private school on a scholarship, i.e. the school waived half the tuition. Is that something like your situation?

Interestingly, he has another friend whose father owns vending machine routes. That kid was able to get a full ride via FAFSA. Two guesses why. :eyes:

[Oregone]

35. I thought my Pells went up to $2.6 K one year...

But its tough to remember. I also thought there was another small federal grant I received every year (forgot the name of it).

Oh, yeah, we were under poverty (pretty much zero income from father's business due to expenses). I also had siblings in college. I graduated high school as the valedictorian, above a 4 point, and as an athletic standout. So you know, I was taken care of. My school (was not local) did not waive half the tuition. But, they had almost a billion dollar endowment, so the rest they gave me in grants and scholarships. I even got a family legacy scholarship from some southern aristocrats because they had no living members alive attending the university.

If you do good in school, and you are dirt poor, strangely, beyond all reason, other people pay for your college. But some universities are more generous than others. I think that they assume you are going to become something and give money and fame back, but in the end, I just ended up resenting the entire system so I contribute as passively as possible.

To me, it was free money. But that doesn't mean I don't see and understand the plight of my cohorts who graduate as indebted servants in an unfriendly economy.

[tammywammy]

37. Yes

I'm 28 and made approximately $30,000 last year, no kids. I don't have to include my parents income. I received grants through my university. You have to fill out the FAFSA for the university to look at their own in house financial-aid. I don't quality for the Pell Grant, though I did qualify for federal loans.

[carlyhippy]

50. we filled out the fafsa, no grants either

but we can get a fair amount of plus, stafford and small unsubsidized Stafford loans, we get a small grant thru the state every year, I guess every little bit helps. But the majority of the money comes from the PLUS loan.

[Doremus]

28. A couple grand today would cover maybe 20%

My son's first year tuition, room & board was $15K at the cheapest public school in the state. You can see how ridiculous a $500 Pell is. It barely covered books.

Yet we were fortunate in that we qualified for loans. How many thousands and thousands of deserving kids are denied college because their parents can't afford or can't qualify for them? It's so sad what we've let the pukes do to this country. :cry:

[Oregone]

36. No, that was just from Pells grants...the University covered most the rest

Thats why you get your FASFA done, get the package, and forward it to the school when done.

Back when I attended, the tuition was about $30,000, but now its more like $50,000 (big jump!).

A couple grand here and there was the governments take. The community gave a bit. But the rest was private grants from the university based on your need.

[INdemo]

7. No ..Use the instruction booklet that is with the form and

it is really pretty easy..there is an 800 number you can call if you should have questions ...Just follow the step by step instructions and you won't have a problem.

[dkofos]

8. NO ONE should have to go into debt to get an education.

[Deja Q]

11. Well, that's not true for America. That might be true in other countries, but not here.

[dkofos]

19. My kids are doing it. They work, pay their tuition and all without borrowing.

It is possible. It just takes longer.

[Deja Q]

45. Are their employers hiring? Or do they live on their own or with you?

Shall I continue to compile a list of qualifying questions? (In short, your pride may be misplaced. These further qualifiers will help determine if your pride is real, or if it is hubris.)

[dkofos]

46. FU

[Deja Q]

9. Uh, I filled out one recently. It's really not that difficult.

Many things are difficult. The FAFSA is just 100 questions that seem boring; perhaps it's the tedium in our ADHDTV society?

[Junkdrawer]

13. Sounds like an opportunity for a TurboTax like program...

to help fill out that form.

[tammywammy]

17. But it is easy like that n/t

[Junkdrawer]

22. I looked it up. TurboTax has it as a $24.95 extra...TaxAct includes it in the $12.95...

"Deluxe" version of the standard Federal Tax software.

https://fafsa.intuit.com


https://www.taxactonline.com

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

14. I worked on the FAFSA with my son and I didn't find it complicated at all to do.

[tammywammy]

16. It's really easy to fill out n/t

[Dreamer Tatum]

18. You put more thought into your screed than it takes to fill out the form

Your soapbox can be used as a desk, too. Shut your piehole and fill it out. Your "financial eugenics" meme is silly on its face: my parents don't have a pot to piss in, but they were supposed to contribute many thousands to my education.

[scarletwoman]

20. Huh? No, I didn't think it was difficult to fill out at all. You just follow the instructions.

I'm not sure about what point you're trying to make, it was a lot harder trying to read your post than filling out the FAFSA form.

sw

[Ishoutandscream2]

25. We just conducted a workshop on the FAFSA for our seniors and their parents

And yes, there are some problems with the form. I am currently trying to resolve an issue with one of my students who has been raised by her older brother. Her parents have had no contact with her since she was in junior high. The form asks for parent income, etc, which would exclude her brother (who has no court documents). I had to call the university where she has been accepted, and I had to download a file from the university where she may not have to claim brother or her parents (which means more money for her). She meets with her financial aide officer next week.

It's things like this which can complicate matters. The form itself is not too much of a problem - it's the "extenuating circumstances" which sometimes get in the way.

[Doctor_Horrible]

27. It's pretty easy the first time and gets easier the following year

[caraher]

29. The basic problem is like the one for health care

Education should be treated more like a right than a privilege. The fact that it isn't leads to a system that feeds on things like student loans and creates the layer of bureaucracy that includes the FAFSA

[Xithras]

31. Yes, a parents contribution SHOULD be a factor.

I don't want my tax dollars subsidizing the education of some kid from a rich family who drives to class in a BMW every day. Before you claim that doesn't happen, you and I should take a walk through the student parking lot at my college. For every run down beater, there's at least one kid driving a Mercedes, Porsche, or BMW. Most are hand-me-downs from parents, but it speaks to the financial comfort that many of these kids were raised in. Even without looking at the nameplates; when a kid with no job pulls into the college parking lot driving a brand new Honda, it's obvious who bought it for them.

If the family financial contribution were no longer a factor, then every kid in America would qualify. That sounds great until you realize that federal financial aid budgets are limited...instead of aid going to the kids who NEED it, the aid would go to the lucky few who were able to apply first. Once the funds ran out, everyone else would get an SOL letter.

The system is designed to be needs based, and like-it-or-not the financial ability of the parents has a direct bearing on the average 18-year old kid's level of need.

[Lyric]

32. You're wrong about the non-traditional students "missing the boat."

I had no problems getting a loan at age 28; neither did my partner, at age 39. We're both low-income, though, so (oddly enough) that helped. You'd think they'd be *less* willing to give student loans to poor people, but the opposite is true--the lower your income, the more you qualify for in aid.

The FAFSA was easy for me, because I'm a non-trad student. That means I didn't have to provide any information about my parents, their income, etc.

You want to know what *I* think? I think we send kids off to college too soon. If kids waited a few years after high school to go to college, they'd (1) have more actual LIFE experience to draw from, making the transition easier, and (2) their parents' income wouldn't be counted against them.

[bicentennial_baby]

33. I waited until I was considered "Independent"

Age 24, iirc. My parents paid for me to go to private school my whole life, and we were NOT wealthy. I didn't want to burden them further.

[northernlights]

34. FAFSA is easy to fill out

15-20 minutes 1st time around. 5 minutes the 2nd. If you haven't done your taxes yet, assuming you have any, you estimate and go back later to put in the accurate info.

And as to this:

"non-traditional students need to be non-traditional in how they meet the cost of "going back"; they need to pay for it without a loan as they missed the boat."


Exactly what boat are you talking about? The fact the my industry tanked and I haven't been able to find a toehold again? I can't even get a fucking minimum wage job scrubbing toilets. So at 55 I'm back in school trying to get into the MLT program because everybody knows that health care is where it's at, except that the "advisor" (read sales liar) blatantly lied and now it's going to take 4 years to get through instead of 3 I planned for, except that if you don't have a family member working in a local hospital you're less likely to be selected for the program, and if you moved to a lower cost of living state to ride out this storm you're now a "transplant" so even less likely to be selected, so I'm in a holding pattern with a 4.0 average in pre-medical sciences...but not "good enough" for them. FUCK YOU, ASSHOLE.

[fortyfeetunder]

38. It reminds me of my frustration in HS

I was a good student, honor society, extracurricular, etc. I had my life planned with major and grad school options, already been accepted to two top universities in the US and was getting requests from other schools across the country.

But my parents flat out refused to fill out the FAFSA. Know why?

"We don't want anyone to get in our business"
"We make too much money to qualify for financial aid"...these were lower middle class folks. We were not rich by a long shot. And they had not really saved for my education.

I did end up in college, but not the one I wanted to attend.

My recommendations
We need more advocates for students to attain financial aid. A good volunteer project.
Some parents need to let go of not sharing financial information.
Fix the FAFSA, emphasize confidentiality, especially in the age of identity theft.

[AyanEva]

39. Hmmm

That's weird. Everyone I know, including myself and my mother, hates filling those things out and we're certainly not stupid like some here are apparently suggesting. After the first time, it's much easier but the first time we all filled it out, there were several sections that we struggled over. Oh well. There are things that I find easy to fill out but others find difficult so I guess it depends on the person. *shrugs*

[BirminghamExaminer]

40. Your statements are contradictory

You said:

"There are also too many students who don't belong in school since studying seems the last thing on their minds. Form should be simple: Most 18-year-old are broke or have minimal personal savings; non-traditional students need to be non-traditional in how they meet the cost of "going back"; they need to pay for it without a loan as they missed the boat. (BEING A DEVIL'S ADVOCATE, HERE - I KNOW I'VE NOT CONSIDERED SO MANY POSSIBLE SCENARIOS)."

First you say there are too many students who don't belong in school, then you say the forms are too hard to fill out. That seems contradictory to me. First you complain some students are too dumb to be in school and then you complain that the forms are too hard to fill out. It seems to me that if you aren't able to fill out a Fafsa form, you're probably too dumb to be in school. Those two things go together.

The Fafsa is easy to fill out as long as you have copies of your tax forms from the previous year. If you don't, the FAFSA lets you estimate it and go back and correct later. It's easy.

FAFSA is based on a formula designed to help people get into school who otherwise couldn't afford to. If the student doesn't get good grades, they don't get any more financial help. SATs are the tests that schools base how well a entrant will perform in school, not FAFSA.

[Agent William]

41. In a word, Yes.

The worst part of the FAFSA process for me was watching my parents slowly fill out their part of the form. They would wait to the last minute and if there were any problems the whole form would be rejected and the application would not be in before the priority deadline, and hence I would spend more time working that studying and classes.

TIP: don't use the online form. It is two valuable to be left up to a computer. One slip up and you find yourself thousands in the hole. The paper version is more user friendly I find, and easier on parents who are not tech literate.

[Chisox08]

42. The amount of aid that you get from filling out the FAFSA

is the problem. I could have taken out student loans to cover the entire cost instead of filling out that form. Last year I only received in Pell grants $500 and about $400 from the state. I had to take a a loan that I can't afford to pay for the rest. My little sister who is also in college received even less. For what you get from the government isn't worth the hassle of filing the FAFSA.

[BirminghamExaminer]

44. My kids got $2000 each per semester

paid for state school tuition & books. Can't complain.

[Bill McBlueState]

48. Look, people,

Just because you personally didn't find the form difficult DOES NOT MEAN there's no use simplifying it.

The college application is where you prove you have the wherewithal to attend college -- the financial aid application is not supposed to serve this purpose.

[carlyhippy]

49. we just filled out a fafsa 2 days ago

they must have re-vamped the form, because it didn't seem to be as complicated as it has been in years' past. I am paying for my kids' college with PLUS loans, so they have to have my info. The only thing that I had problems with in the past was the area where they ask what the parent's worth is, IRA's, home equity etc. We didn't know exactly what to put down, it was quite complicated. I also don't like having to wait until the taxes are all done for my kid and myself, it gets nerve wracking waiting for all the paperwork, then the taxes, then the fafsa.

[Wickerman]

51. I think it depends on personal situations

If you have complications like blended families and interesting property combinations it is more complicated than taxes. The FAFSA took a few hours to complete with all the calculations, phone calls and look ups we need to do.

On the other hand, this morning I refinanced my home loan for a lower rate and it took 1/2 hour over the internet with my local bank, which I have never used before. After the driveby appraisal we'll take 10 minutes to go into the bank and sign.

So, we got a 200+K loan in 40 minutes of effort and it took us the better part of 4 hours of work to finish the FAFSA to find out that we aren't eligible for aid but that they will loan the kid some money...