Do you think hallucinogenic drugs, and I'll include marijuana in that

[Bandit]

Have a tendency to make one more Liberal or do you think it doesn't really change or affect a person's general mindset. I am not including heroin or meth or cocaine or what is normally referred to as "hard" drugs. In the sixties Hippies were going to change the world by putting LSD into the water supply. They/I felt that anyone that took a good dose of LSD would not want War or to in any way abuse people. Did the drugs make us feel this way or did we already feel this way and the drugs just reinforced it?

[ensho]

1. whyever do you say marijuana causes hallucinations?

it does not.

[zagging]

6. Makes that bag of chips look smaller

[ThePowerofWill]

21. Oh yes it does, strain depending of course.

Many equatorial sativas show hallucinagenic tendencies. Many Haze hybrids available will also show genotypes that are trippy. This comes from the fact equatorial sativas tend to have the highest ratio of clean pure thc with the other chems like cdb, cbn showing in very low percentages.Marijuana ranges in effect from very stoned almost narcotic highs, to rippy up giddy cerebral highs complete with auditory, and light visual hallucinations.

[Frank Cannon]

52. For some people, it causes hallucinations, I assure you

It is the primary reason why I will never try it again.

[pipi_k]

54. Same here

Hallucinations and absolutely terrifying panic attacks on pot.



I've also had hallucinations on a certain prescription antidepressant.

Some drugs/substances do really bad things to some people.

[Nikia]

68. I had a batch of pot brownies

It turned out there was about an ounce in the pan. I hallucinated in not a fun way. I was finally able to go to sleep and felt better in the morning but it wasn't fun.

[Deja Q]

71. Funny. I know of people who claim it's not addictive...

then bring some to their relatives' house to smoke it because there's no addiction and they couldn't puff it at home without needing to risk breaking their relatives' rules.

They may not be seeing or hearing things, but their perception is obviously quite whacko and is in sheer denial of the truth: It is addictive. At least on a psychological rather than physiological level.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

74. It did with me

and also made me extremely paranoid. I had to sleep it off - never again!

[seabeyond]

2. i see crank, coke and booze more the rw drug and pot the left drug, wink....

all in jest and not to take seriously

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. Well in my case I already felt that way

I've never done drugs, and have always had a liberal mindset. I will say that I have many acquaintances who smoke marijuana, and they run the political gamut from very liberal to very conservative. So apparently drugs don't automatically make you liberal.

[Kookaburra]

4. Probably not pot --

I know plenty of ignorant, redneck right-wingers who smoke the stuff on a regular basis, so I'm guessing maybe it just intensifies your general tendencies? Just an uneducated guess on my part.

[TWiley]

5. they tend to make a person more insane ... I'll include marijuana in that as well

[crikkett]

16. You poor ignorant person. Hallucinogens are being used to treat insanity,

including PTSD.

Pot, NOT a hallucinogen, is being used to treat just about everything under the sun from depression, nausea, chronic pain to sleep disorders.

[Webster Green]

24. Hoo Boy!

You are one confused mofo! :wtf:

[Greyhound]

39. This statement explains so much, thanks for the insight. n/t

[madokie]

7. pot and hallucinogenic does not belong in the same sentence

I've done my share of both and they are not to be confused.

[Bandit]

8. I can't believe you can say that after being in Vietnam.

They may not be as intense as LSD or Peyote or Mescaline but one will hallucinate from good pot.

[ensho]

25. maybe you don't know what hallucinate means

I've had some of the best pot in the world - you don't hallucinate.

[madokie]

26. I don't buy that

for one second. The Vietnamese pot was good, Cambodian was even better with Thai sticks better still but none of them made me hallucinate. I guess we have a different opinion of what hallucinate means, huh.

[tridim]

29. That's because Thai strains are sativas, and Thai Stick was a strong sativa..

dipped in hash oil. That'll make anyone hallucinate, or at least think he's hallucinating.

This is why I LMAO whenever the drug warriors say pot is stronger these days. It's only true when comparing today's elite strains to ditch weed from the 70's, which of course isn't a valid comparison.

[Webster Green]

37. True. The popular strains today are potent because they are Thai crosses.

Most of the really potent varieties today are Afghani-Thai crosses.

"Haffie-Affie", as we used to call it in the biz. Also, some of them were Pakistani crosses. :smoke:

[RadiationTherapy]

49. I've heard 'half-ghani' nt

[Occam Bandage]

61. Except for in the sentence, "Marijuana is classified as a hallocinogen."

Look it up.

[saltpoint]

9. Interesting question. If the compound is hallucinogenic it suggests

that it is more powerful than our brains' ability to gauge it, or that we don't have the tools to readily, spontaneously connect to the compound's properties, or maybe we do but that response has been long-buried.

Our brains, collectively speaking, may have perceived the computer to create a model for self-gauging.

A kind of techno-symbiosis.

[crikkett]

20. In a Silicon Valley saloon one day (they exist!)

I was told a *secret* by a wizened old game programmer - the founding members of Apple Computers were stoners.

So yeah, the brain may have conceived of the computer to create a model for self-guaging, but I submit that it wasn't without help.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it...

[saltpoint]

22. I endorse the theory.

:toast:

[VenusRising]

53. It happened in Science, too!

Dr Kary Mullis - Nobel Prize Winner for Chemistry in 1993 and inventor of PCR, a method for detecting even the smallest amount of DNA in ancient materials. "Would I have invented PCR if I hadn't taken LSD? I seriously doubt it," he says. "I could sit on a DNA molecule and watch the polymers go by. I learnt that partly on psychedelic drugs."

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/articles/famous_users/lsd.htm

[marylanddem]

10. Great question -

I think those of us who experimented with the more mind-altering psychedelics/hallucinogenics were kind of more adventurous - possibly crazier (crazy in the sense of, looking back, it seems incredibly risky though I don't regret it for a minute) - and therefore more likely to be anti-establishment in general, questioning authority and so on.

[msongs]

11. "god" gave us pot, it's "god's" will that we use it lol (for those that do, which I don't)

time for conservatives to stop trampling the religious rights of "believers"

Msongs

[CanSocDem]

40. A great poster from the 60's...

...said Grass is God's way of saying Hi!

:smoke:

[liberalmuse]

12. I don't think so.

I'm not saying I haven't tried the more mild hallucinogens many years ago, but never on a regular basis. I have a few friends who are heavy pot smokers, and they tend to be more right-leaning libertarian who don't actively participate in or give a shit about politics. They think I'm "deep", when that really isn't the case. I'm more liberal in my belief system than any of my friends, but more conservative in my lifestyle. I haven't done the crazy shit they have, that's for sure, though I've recognized that I have been very liberal and into the psychedelic culture since I was a kid. I love the music, art and thought that is produced from hallucinogenic drugs' effect on the human brain, without having much desire to really get into the drugs themselves.

That being said, I think right wing assholes far removed from nature in its most pristine state tend to prefer drugs like cocaine and the synthetics (painkillers, etc.), while people closer to the earth tend to prefer more natural mind altering drugs.

[Lerkfish]

13. well...snort...the fact that you classify marijuana but NOT heroine as hallucinogenic

makes me dismiss your conclusions on their face, since you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

[Bandit]

14. Possibly I should have used the term "Narcotic" in place of "Hard" drugs.

In literature describing classifications of drugs marijuana is actually listed as an hallucinogenic drug. I didn't just make that up, but I deliberately left out the "Narcotics" because the sixties Hippy movement was not about "narcotics" but about Hallucinogens.

[ensho]

28. the hippy movement was about peace not war

nt

[Lerkfish]

34. have you ever used either marijuana or any of your other choices? direct experience?

My first guess would be that you haven't, based on your misperception of their effects.

but, to your original OP, I would have to disagree. The peace movement of the sixties was due to a cultural shift brought about by the inevitability of the draft and what that meant to the individual rather than whether they used pot. A lot of antiwar protestors were teetotallers, and a lot of prowar people smoked pot back then. I lived back then, and you apparently didn't.
so let me school you: the antiwar movement was larger than the pot users and the pot users were not exclusively anti-war.
You're projecting a casuality from a correlation which not even a good correlation.

[MindPilot]

36. Wonder Woman is my hallucinogenic heroine

To this day I still have hallucinations about seeing her naked. :D

[Occam Bandage]

60. Marijuana is classified as a hallucinogen.

Heroine is not a drug, but is rather the feminine of "hero." Heroin is not classified as a hallucinogen.

[Sonicmedusa]

15. Would you please score me some weed that will cause hallucinations?

I will be most appreciative.

[MindPilot]

17. let me tell you about a girl I went to HS with...

But first MJ is not a hallucinogen unless you do an awful lot of very strong stuff.

I'm still good friends with this woman who did boatloads of acid when we were kids. She went on to get a Masters in Criminal Psychology and today is a 30-year veteran of a big-city police department. She is without a doubt the most level-headed, even-tempered, grounded, peaceful, tolerant, giving and loving people I know.

A few years ago after being promoted to Sergeant, she implemented a policy in her department to reduce the use of force when dealing with arrestees which included not letting the K9s bite suspects, and the use of a taser is treated the same as a firearm -- you had better be able to prove to her there was no other alternative.

She is very open with her contention that she would not be the person she is today without LSD.

And for just that extra bit of irony, before being promoted, she ran her department's DARE program! Now she's back on patrol and loves it; much happier being behind the wheel of a patrol car than a desk.

[Wickerman]

18. I don't think you can generalize

While in college I had friends who smoked and did hallcs who were just "partying". I have no doubt that those kids went on to by Republicans though were pretty apolitical in the 80's. On the other hand I had other friends who did same who saw smoking and hallcs as more "experience". Drop and take in the experience rather than drop and go to a club. Those guys and gals probably vote Dem if they vote. It's mindset and intention of use, I think. Party vs. expansion. Not sure you can generalize from there, even.

[Burma Jones]

19. No, I think folks using mind expanders would tend toward liberalism

whether it's through drugs or meditation.........

[JVS]

23. I think hallucinogenic drugs have a tendency to make one hallucinate.

You can slide the Nobel Prize money under the door in an envelope

[ensho]

30. lol

nt

[TexasObserver]

27. Yes, if for no other reason than making one's ass not so tight.

It's a chicken and egg thing, however. People who try mind altering drugs are more likely to be openminded and adverturesome than those who do not. They take the drugs because they are more liberal, and taking the drugs may make them more liberal, simply because they may become less judgmental.

A drug won't make a rightwinger become a liberal, but it may make a person more introspective, and therefore more inclined to arrive at a liberal conclusion.

[Kip Humphrey]

31. Didn't do much for Bush... Then again, he would become belligerent on pot which is probably why he

preferred booze and cocaine.

(Forrest Gumpism #4: I was directly told of Bush's drug use on separate occasions by 3 independent eyewitnesses who partied with GW in the '70s here in SE Texas)

[MindPilot]

33. Don't you mean he would NOT get belligerent?

[Kip Humphrey]

45. No. That's the revealing point...He became belligerent when under the influence of THC.

[MindPilot]

46. Oh wow, I did not know that!!

That fucker can't do *anything* right can he?

[RadiationTherapy]

32. It's all love and fear. Most 'fear-based' people will never touch drugs.

[MindPilot]

35. I think that is a pretty accurate assessment.

However I think speed (coke, meth) are the choice for the fear-based and of course booze. There are obvious cross-overs, but yes, there is a definite distinction between "peace & love" type drugs and "kick-some-ass" type.

[RadiationTherapy]

48. Sorry, yes, I meant to add the same feelings.

Because those drugs make you feel "strong" in the delusional way our culture promotes.

[Greyhound]

38. Excluding pot (I don't know why you would include it in the first place),

hallucinogenic drugs lets your brain operate in a different way. This is the expansion so often mentioned in literature on the subject.

Altering the thought process literally gives one a new perspective, and therefore a glimpse into true otherness, once a person experiences this, it does seem to follow that they usually become more tolerant/understanding of others in general, and isn't that the core of liberal?

[UNCLE_Rico]

41. I know a lot of right-wing pot smokers ...

So I'd say, in general, 'no' would be the answer to your question, IMHO. But I think the elite def sees it in the way you speak of.

And as someone who's smoked a shit-ton of every kinda pot over the years, and experimented with actual hallucinogens (mushrooms and lsd) quite a bit in their younger days, done pretty much every drug under the sun at one time or another, and even was at one time a serious narcotic (opioid) addict, I can tell you one thing I know for certain ... mushrooms and lsd make a person hallucinate. Good ecstasy is also mildly hallucinogenic. If you stay up on speed for a few days, you can start tripping pretty good too, but the most noticeable are the auditory hallucinations rather than visual.

But never in all my many hundreds of times of smoking pot or taking narcotics did either of these drugs make me hallucinate. I never actually did heroin, but I have pretty solid reason to believe its not too different from taking 40 or 50 percocet, or 10 dilaudids, at a time.

MJ may be technically in the class of drugs called 'hallucinogens', but I think that's just cause they really don't know where to put it. It's kinda in a class by itself ...

[librechik]

42. Let's go back in history: The Assassins (Islamic sect 8th-14th century)

an army of killers who got in the mood by smoking hashish (also felt it gave them magical healing powers)

Jesus apparently did not recommend taking hallucinogens, but did say we should learn from those who do.


A lot depends on the cultural context. Entheogens tend to give you what you think you need, unless they have their own idea of what you need, then they kick your ass.

Me, when I kept down my first toke of jamaican, everything changed, all at once. I suddenly saw how foolish my rigid conservative beliefs were. It was an instantaneous revelation and it changed my life forever.

[Joanie Baloney]

43. Pot should be included in the stimulus package

I don't think pot makes you behave any differently then you are already wired to act. It just relaxes your mind to allow you to see more avenues and be more open to ideas that are percolating in the subconcious to begin with. So, if you were right-leaning and you smoked pot with a liberal buddy, you may be more willing to accept his theories.

Or - he might just have the bag of Doritos so you agree with him. :)

Pass the stimulus, man. :)



JB

[MindPilot]

44. I'm getting stimulated right now! n/t

[pleah]

47. Shrooms are not a drug, but,

they sure are a lot of fun. :evilgrin:


I had the same reaction doing shrooms as I did with acid. Laughed my ass off the entire time. Don't remember seeing colors or stuff that wasn't there.

Ah, the good old days.

[davsand]

55. 'Shrooms didn't make me hallucinate but they did alter my perceptions.

Trees moving in the wind were "dancing" rather than just blowing around.

Hallucinations (in my opinion, anyway) are seeing things that are not there. I hallucinated when I did good or even decent acid.

There is a WORLD of difference in how they feel at the time, and I think there is a huge difference in how people respond to the experience. Literally, there are people that just cannot deal with seeing things, just as there are people that will just roll with it and accept the ride for what it is.

I suppose you could try and express it in political leanings, but I think that for most people it is a matter of personal creativity and how willing they are to accept that about themselves. I know some pretty uptight Dems who would NEVER be a good candidate to enjoy acid, and I know some Republicans that probably would be a real hoot to trip with. It is a matter of personal image, I think.

Pot, is no different than booze, IMO, except one is illegal and one is not. Taken or used to extreme either one can screw you up to the point you can't function, and that potential really is the point of it for a lot of people--isn't it?

:shrug:


Laura

[pleah]

57. Everything should be done in moderation.

Although, I do know a few people that a good buzz would be wasted on.

[UNCLE_Rico]

59. Believe you me ...

You take enough mushrooms, you can MOST CERTAINLY hallucinate your friggin ass off.

I've seen a friend become completely covered in hair like a bear before right before my eyes. I've also watched my new shoes turn old and tattered, and turn back to brand new again (cycling back and forth like 20 times in the space of a few minutes of staring at them).

Maybe these aren't exactly things that *completely* aren't there, but they were distortions of reality so profound that they have to be categorized as hallucinations ...

I think it happens cause you utterly lose the ability to focus on the details of surfaces, and your brain just starts making up random shit on its own to compensate for this effect.

Oh, and don't even get me started on what happens to peoples faces when you stare at them for any length of time. Yeah, I bet most of you know what I'm talking about ... ;)

These exact same effects also happen on LSD.

I should add, I always thought they were pretty cool, as long as I was in a good mood, and in a safe place with others who were of a 'like mind'.

Always did prefer the acid to shrooms, though. Even though they are VERY similar, everyone I've ever talked to that's done both always has a strong preference for one over the other. I had a few really crap times on shrooms, and only one bad time on doses, and even that time it was cause people around me were literally *trying* to make me have a bad trip.

[davsand]

63. My Doc says you can hallucinate on cold or allergy medicines, but I wouldn't recommend it.

There is just something WRONG about taking THAT much Benadryl--ya know?

We always had a theory that your first experience with any drug laid a foundation for future uses. The better the time you had, the better the future uses could be. Never did much research on the theory, but that might come into play when you talk about people that prefer one type drug over another.

My personal preferences usually ran that the closer to nature it was the more I liked it. The natural stuff always felt like an easier "ride" somehow. It "flowed" better with less of a let down after.

:shrug:



Laura

[UNCLE_Rico]

58. No, but the psilocybin in shrooms is most certainly a drug ...

Like the cannabinols in pot are a drug.

[pleah]

65. ;)

I know that. Common Large Psilocybe (Psilocybe cubensis)
Bluing Psilocybe (Psilocybe cyanescens)
Mountain Moss Psilocybe (Psilocybe montana)
Conifer Psilocybe (Psilocybe pelliculosa)
Liberty Cap (Psilocybe semilanceata)
Scaly-stalked Psilocybe (Psilocybe squamosa)
Stuntz's Blue Legs (Psilocybe Stuntzii)


Edibility for all: Hallucinogenic.

[RadiationTherapy]

50. MJ is hallucinogenic because it alters one's perceptions.

'Music sounds better' and that sort of thing. Everything your senses experience is mildly altered to seem 'nicer'. This is the major component of the pain management MJ can provide. It is the 'getting high' that eases the pain and that is why 'Marinol' is no substitute.

Comparing it to powerful hallucinogens is like saying, "Wine isn't alcohol, because I have had Everclear and I KNOW what an alcohol buzz is like." It's just a different place on the spectrum.

[Fireweed247]

51. I have a friend who says it completely changed his perspective on life

Mary Jane gave him compassion. He use to shoot squirrels for fun, wanted to join the military and then all of a sudden....he saw the light.

[Blue_In_AK]

56. A little of both, I suspect.

[tritsofme]

62. The only pot-heads I know anymore are RW libertarians

Of more the Ron Paul variety. "Small government" types.

At least that's how they think of themselves I guess, they voted for Bush twice and McCain.

One in particular has grown "magic mushrooms" for many years.

My guess would be that conservatives that participate in the drug culture are more discreet and private about it than liberals.

Liberals are probably more accepting of marijuana and psychedelic usage, in conservative circles such behavior may be simply unacceptable.

[bridgit]

64. Ummm, no. I think the premise is wrong. Where 'turn on tune in & drop out' was the mantra...

that mantra contributed more to a Pavlovian response mechanism whereby what is Liberal was for many skidded right past and into states of SkinnerBoxian methods of continuing states of chemically induced bliss; not unlike the Generations episode regarding The Nexus, where people would do anything to get back inside it and become re-enfolded within that state of joy...but that isn't Liberal to me disregarding all others to the sole inclusion of one's self, one's altered state unless I have it all wrong


With respect to MJ, I don't see Mexican drug cartels, lords, and runners of their products; or Golden Triangle, or Taliban poppy farmers as 'liberal' to any extent. They're just doing what they need to do to get their product to market and at that rate they may as well be working for Carlyle


So that to suggest an answer to your Q in conclusion, "Did the drugs make us feel this way or did we already feel this way and the drugs just reinforced it?" well...we can ascribe every noble/lofty notion to it, but it is equally likely under such circumstances; that we were conceited, self-centered, and less likely to care for others all along and yes!

LaLa is my favorite :)

[Baikonour]

66. Edit: dupe

Dupe.

[Baikonour]

67. Marijuana IS a mild hallucinogen. Albeit, a very mild one.

People saying otherwise in this thread need to understand that.

[blogslut]

69. I think most people don't know what they are

Until our beliefs are tested, we're all hypothetical heroes.

[shadowknows69]

70. They made me something

Still working that out in therapy. Get back to you.

[conscious evolution]

72. I would most likely be a riech winger if not for LSD.

No doubt about it.
Let me see through the bullshit.

[timtom]

73. I think it more likely

that those with liberal tendencies are drawn to psychedelics.

I know I was.