Are Pizza places dinosaurs?

[Lost in CT]

Even before the latest economic crisis pizza places were dropping like flies.

The WSJ today talked about how the big three Dominos, Pizza Hut and Papa Johns are losing stores on a monthly basis.

High commodity prices (esp cheese), local pizza shops offering more variety of flavors and pre-made pizzas from Walmart and grocery chains are blamed.

The question is can any of the companies survive or are they headed the way of Woolworths and Sears as dinosaurs of another era.

Classism aside why do you think Americans have stopped ordering take out pizza from national chains?

[babylonsister]

1. 'Cause it tastes like cardboard?

I wish I had a local pizza parlor. I miss NY pizza.

[Kahuna]

33. Girl! I had some pizza Saturday night from an Italian restaurant in

NJ.... It was heaven! And NY pizza? To die for. I never buy pizza from those chains. :puke:

[babylonsister]

37. Rub it in, whydoncha?

:) Ahh, you know it's good when the oil starts dripping down your arm.

I've also had really fine pizza from wood-burning ovens in other countries, but NY's is still my fave.

[Kahuna]

41. I'm still smacking my lips over a pepperoni slice I had in NY in December..

The best freakin' slice ever... And I only got one on my way to Port Authority. I was like, dang! I knew I should have ordered two.. :grr:

[Gidney N Cloyd]

2. All the other types of fast food joints have low price point "value meals"

I haven't seen that from the pizza chains.
That and Dominos, Pizza Hut and Papa Johns all suck.

[rurallib]

3. I always look for the local shops when traveling and at home

One of the pluses to traveling is eating local cuisine. I love pizza, but I already know what Pizza Hut or Domino's tastes like. Plus giving Monaghan a nickel bothers me as much as giving Walmart or Murdoch a nickel.

[Ohio Joe]

4. I stopped shortly after leaving NJ

The first place I relocated to was CT and the pizza simply sucked. Then MA and now OH and none of them make pizza like they did in Jersey. I bought a pizza stone and have been making my own pizza for the last 16 years or so, much better then ordering it.

[Fuzz]

7. You must not live near New Haven if you think the pizza sucked in CT!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

14. Never been to New Haven, but I do know one thing

If you're in Stonington, CT and you want a pizza, go to Rhode Island.

:puke:

[drbtg1]

64. And that's in spite of the fact that there's the Julia Roberts Shrine Pizzeria down there in Mystic.

You'd think at least THAT place would have decent pizza.

[timtom]

68. You wouldn't be speaking of, perhaps,

Westerly (Place where I was Born), for example, would you?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

78. Pie & Suds!

I LOVE that place.

[Retrograde]

72. I must agree with the previous poster

many years ago, I went to a place in New Haven that everyone said had the best pizza in the known universe. There was a line around the block. When we finally got our pie, the center was undercooked and the edges were burnt. I've been leery of anyone touting New Haven pizzas ever since.

The best one I had recently was from a hole-in-the-wall place in the eastern suburbs of Phoenix which I know I'll never be able to find again. It was run by recent transplants from New York, and was as close to an old-fashioned New York style pizza I've had in years.

I don't object to regional variations in pizzas. Corporate ones, though, are bland and tasteless.

[On the Road]

8. You Must Not Have Been in New Haven

It is the only to rival NY in pizza quality.

[drbtg1]

47. Are you a lifelong CT resident?

Lifelong CT residents always bring up New Haven when talking pizza, which, let's face it, is really sad. Having been born and raised in NY but now living in CT, I can honestly say Pepe's and Sally's are only average compared to your typical pizza in NY. Unfortunately, the rest of CT is handicapped by the horrific pizza that infests the rest of the state which causes an inappropriate inflation of opinion about Wooster Street pizzerias. One shouldn't have to make a holy pligramage across the state of CT to New Haven just for average pizza.

BTW, another reason to dislike Pepe's is the picture of Reagan on the wall.

[On the Road]

66. I Lived in New Haven for About Four Years

Have not been to Pepe's or Sally's for years, but I use love going there, especially for the white clam pizzas. Not much there but crust, olive oil, chopped garlic, grated cheese, and clams. Guess it's a matter of taste.

My ex was from Brooklyn, and I've had plenty of NY pizza, which I agree is far superior to the rest of the country.

I don't know what people see in Chicago pizza, for example. The deep dish pizza at the Uno's tastes to me like a sodden mass of dough topped with greasy meats floating in gobs of jarred spaghetti sauce.

NY pizza sauce, on the other hand, is closer to crushed tomatoes. Very, very light by comparison -- almost watery. The crust is much thinner and crustier on the bottom due to the pizza ovens, which pairs well with the wetter upper crust and thinner sauce. Mozarella is used more sparingly and not dripping off the sides. Really allows the flavors and textures to come out.

[drbtg1]

69. Yeah, I know some folks like the clam pizza, but then, that's not really a good simple pizza anymore

I guess I'm too much of a purist, but to me, a quality pizza needs the dough, the sauce, the cheese and the seasonings. If you can't get a good quality pizza from that, it's a lost cause. No amount of toppings should be used to camouflage the flaws in the foundation.

Clams may taste good, but that's just not pizza anymore. (And why people in CT think pineapple on pizza is just beyond me.)

[On the Road]

71. I Agree with You About the Pineapple

but clams, calamari, or scungilli are very traditional Italian toppings.

I think the crust is New Haven pizza's strongest suit. The huge wood-fired ovens make a noticeable difference.

[drbtg1]

90. You can put on whatever you want. Buon Appetito! However...

...if you can't get a good pie with just the basics, it's pointless. And CT is loaded with that.

[Dorian Gray]

84. I love clam pizza.

There is a wonderful place in Brooklyn that makes the best clam pizza: Franny's!

I also like traditional by the slice pizza, too.

But I live in Brooklyn and won't really order it anywhere else. Well... maybe Italy.

[jobycom]

19. You NY and NJ folk are so snobby about your little part of the world

:) But you've earned that right with pizza, I'll grant you that. I've been to NY once--aside from passing through the airport--and I still remember the pizza I got there. Haven't found a substitute anywhere. There is good pizza here in Austin, but not good in the same way.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

20. New Jersey pizza must blow.

MA and CT have some of the best pizza places in the world.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

34. Yeah, come down to NJ and try it

Where's the good pizza in CT outside of New Haven?

[sharp_stick]

40. New Haven is Fantastic

Outside of Frank Pepe's they have several other great spots. I don't know Stonington or that part of CT that well but up through the middle of the State there is Illianos in Middletown which can make a kick ass pie and a small one called Camputaros in Wallingford (I think?) that makes a spud pie that sounds terrible but tastes bloody great.

The key is finding a good local shop, there can be great pizza anywhere as long as the place making it really knows what they're doing. I've had shitty pizza in Brooklyn and Chicago and great pizza in Billings Montana. The guy/gal making the thing, the ingredients they use and the oven they cook it in are all a lot more important than the geographic loaction.

[Kahuna]

35. WRONGO! NJ pizza rocks!

:9

[ozu]

38. yeah!

Grimaldi's Pizza representing Brooklyn and Hoboken.

[Neecy]

76. tut, tut....all of you east coasters....

The best pizza on the planet comes to you courtesy of Zante's on Mission St. in San Francisco...

Zante's Indian Pizza - to die for.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

81. Crust is too thick

Too much stuff on it, too.

[Ohio Joe]

36. There is only one place that has pizza that rivals NY/NJ

and that is the Chicago deep dish but it is really a unique dish that deserves its own category of food. MA and CT pizza has only one place that makes worse and that CA. :P

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

56. You must have never been to Boston in your life.

Either that or you wouldn't know good pizza from shit.

[Ohio Joe]

58. Plenty of times...

Great seafood, crappy pizza. Go to Jersey for a real pie, I suggest Rudy's in Closter.

[semillama]

80. My wife's from Lowell

and even she says Boston blows for pizza. We saw a new pizza place that opened here in Columbus called "Boston's" and she was like, WTF??

[Ohio Joe]

86. I saw that and thought the same thing, hahahahaha

bwahahahahahaha

[Dorian Gray]

85. HA HA

I went to college in Boston. Their pizza is shit.

[chatnoir]

87. Don't forget the Chicago stuffed :)

And yes, pizza out in CA is pretty bad.

[Ohio Joe]

89. Stuffed?

Never had that one. Is it as good as the deep dish? So I know where to get it next time I'm in town, who makes the best one? Chicago is definitly a great pizza town.

[chatnoir]

96. Slightly different

Similar to the deep dish but higher and with a top crust.

Bacino's was always a favorite for stuffed.

Chowhound discussed the best places for stuffed and the differences:

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/340280

And yes, I miss the pizza from home big time!

[DS1]

59. Fat fucking chance. MA pizza blows, and I've lived plenty of years in both

[Marrah_G]

46. There are plenty of places in MA and CT that make damn good Pizza's

[Ohio Joe]

50. Sorry

I lived it CT for 5 years and MA for more then 10, tried lots of different places. Some were ok but most did not hold a candle to a real Jersey pie.

[Marrah_G]

60. It must have been the areas you lived in.

[Silent3]

98. I grew up in NJ too...

...and didn't appreciate how good the average run-of-the-mill local pizzeria in NJ was until I moved to New Hampshire. NH doesn't have many "pizzerias". We mostly have a few of the chain restaurants and "(fill in local town name) House of Pizza". For some reason I don't understand, most House(s) of Pizza are owned by Greeks, not Italians, and serve mediocre baklava and gyros along with their crappy pizza.

One place in my town serves "New York-style pizza", and the quality there isn't spectacular, but it's much better than the typical House of Pizza, and more like the average pizzeria in NJ. We're just about a mile outside of their delivery range, however, so I typically only eat there when I get downtown during the day, which doesn't happen very often.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

110. That reminded me of my law school years

in Cambridge Mass 20 some years ago. Every pizza joint within walking distance of my dorm was owned by Greeks or Syrians. Hoagies were always great, but the pizza was uniformly mediocre.

[Kat45]

118. There's plenty of good pizza in MA. The North End, the Italian part of the city.

It's not what it used to be since the gentrification and yuppies, but there are still Italians there and you can get good pizza there. Regina's. The European was great but that's been gone for a long time.

You're right, the Greek pizza sucks. You had to find the places with Italian pizza, and it does exist. Besides the North End, you can find good pizza in Somerville and Medford (lots of Italians in those cities). Though I will agree that there aren't as many places any more.

[NewJeffCT]

103. I don't remember any good pizza in NJ

and my ex-wife was from NJ and she took me to the places that were supposed to be the best in NJ...

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

112. There's good pizza almost everywhere in NJ

[YOY]

5. Because the local place always makes better pizza at the same price?

Or at least smaller chains to say the least: "Z Pizza" for example...place is great.

http://www.zpizza.com/

[sui generis]

6. Not in my nearborhood

About a mile away we have a very very active Pizza Hut and Pizza Inn. The Pizza Inn offers a buffet and is always jam packed full of families and rug rats, and the Pizza Hut is a delivery shop.

I guess it depends on what it costs to feed a lot of kids at a vs. b vs. c. I'll bet there are diminishing returns with the Wal-Mart scenario if you have more mouths to feed.

[calico1]

9. I don't know about chains but our local

pizzerias are doing fine.

We have one that is owned by a man who lived in Brooklyn and he makes pizza the way I remember it in NY.

Depending on where you go, since pizzerias are not franchises, the quality can be different.

You can find great pizza in CT and I am fortunate to live near two places that make great pizza.

Pizza Hut sucks, imo.

[Sedona]

10. We have two great Mom and Pop places in our neighborhood

and I can never decide which one to buy cheap food for the gaggle of teenage girls that gather at my house on the weekends.

They are both so good, so I alternate each weekend to support the neighborhood mom and pop places.

They're just a few dollars more but the quality of the chains pizza does not compare to my local place,run by people who have many times been MY customers in the business I ran in this small town for 10 years.

For $25 I can feed four or five girls and maybe have a slice left over for me! :)


Edited for crappy typing

[Kansas Wyatt]

11. Years ago, when the chains were still growing....

Their pizza used to be really good. Now, they all taste the same and it sucks. It's like they are buying prepackaged product from the same supplier.

Another fine example how Corporate America eventually turns everything to shit, as they milk every dime they can out of it.

[BlueJazz]

21. Very True...and their Ads just piss me off....

.... especially when they come up with something like:

"Order a Large Pizza with 6 toppings and get 5 (Yes 5!) Breadsticks for free!!!"

Geez, I actually get some bread made into a stick for Free?...that's what I've always wanted with a doughy Pizza..Breadsticks.
Big Fucking deal. :) :)

[Telly Savalas]

117. Even in Kansas City, which really isn't known for its pizza,

there are a ton of places which are far superior to the chains:

Waldo Pizza, Pizza 51, Minsky's, D'Bronx, and Papa Keno's are all pretty damn good. I'm sure there are more that I'm forgetting.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

12. Because their pizza fucking sucks

I live in NJ. There is no excuse EVER to order chain pizza.

[TommyO]

55. You can find bad pizza in NJ

but those places don't stick around all that long.

There's a small, family owned chain near me in Bayville that has wonderful pizza and calzone.

You're right about never ordering chain pizza, it's an inferior product, more marketing than mozzarella!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

57. Right, there's bad pizza in NJ, but they don't stay open long and most places are good

[FarCenter]

13. A Smaller Piece of the Pie

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123498018052714211.html?mod=yahoo_hs&ru=yahoo

Pizza chains were already struggling. Then the economic downturn hit.

By RICHARD GIBSON

Times are tough in the U.S. pizza business.

Once synonymous with a cheap meal, pizza's popularity among America's fast-food consumers is waning. On the one hand, its reputation as a bargain has been eroded by pricey ingredients -- some in the industry refer to cheese as "white gold" -- and aggressive competition, especially from chains peddling cheap hamburgers.

On the other hand, it is getting squeezed by changing tastes, as some consumers bypass pizza for fresher, more upscale dining options.

Exacerbating the situation is the most precipitous economic downturn in decades, which has sparked a dramatic pullback in consumer spending.

Conditions late last year were "the worst I'd seen" since entering the business 32 years ago, says John Schnatter, founder and interim chief executive officer of the Papa John's International, which is based in Louisville, Ky.

The industry's troubles are creating problems for franchisees of the three biggest chains: Papa John's, Domino's Inc. and industry leader Pizza Hut, a unit of fast-food giant Yum Brands Inc.

<snip>

[Lost in CT]

22. Thanks for finding the link (I get one of those old fashioned paper versions)

And couldn't find the online article.

[jobycom]

15. There are some excellent pizza parlors out there, but they get pricey.

Pizza used to be a good, cheap way to feed a family or entertain a large group, but frozen pizzas have risen in quality and are much cheaper in comparison, and some deli pizzas from the supermarkets are just about as good as the cheap delivery ones. I can pick up a large deli pizza on the way home from work at HEB for six bucks, and buy sodas for another couple bucks. If I order Domino's, I get a pizza only slightly better, and the same coke, for twenty-five to thirty bucks with tip.

Plus, delivery has cut its own throat. They are like car dealers and bank loans, advertising "Three pizzas for fifteen bucks," or whatever, but by the time they add in delivery, cost of the drinks, and whatever surcharge they make up, you've spent thirty bucks. You could buy your sodas at the store beforehand, but you might as well buy the pizza while you're there.

There are a lot of good pizza places out there, though, that are worth paying a little more for. Mellow Mushroom, Z Pizza, and a lot of local places in most cities make excellent pizza that has kept up with evolving tastes, or that excel in traditional tastes, and offer something more than cheese on a greasy or dry crust, and that don't try to substitute gimmics like stuffed crust or fake whole wheat crust for genuine quality. But they are more expensive, so they aren't going to be the teenage hangouts or cheap family outing they used to be.

Plus, tastes have changed. Cheese and bread are both frowned upon for health reasons these days. When I was fifteen, a nutritionist suggested pizza as a healthier alternative to burgers and fries. Nowadays, pizza isn't seen as the healthier option very often.

Yeah, I think about things too much, but I'm a real pizza addict.

Edited to correct name.

[Bill McBlueState]

16. "Classism aside"

What response are you hoping to fend off by saying "classism aside"? I'm confused.

[Lost in CT]

30. Well the whole I would never eat in such a place kind of post.

Besides the obvious fact their pizza often sucks the chains managed to grow for years then a few years ago America changed it's mind about pizza. Or at the very least chain store pizza.

(In other words the Olive Garden in Times Square conundrum.)

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

39. Wow, you've been here 11 days and you know all about Olive Garden in Times Square?

That was three or so years ago!

[Lost in CT]

42. An Asian Woodcarver told me. nt

[Critters2]

105. ...

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

114. OMFG

:applause:

[Bill McBlueState]

54. yeah, those responses aren't helpful

In these times, if Papa John's is losing business, it's probably not because people decided en masse to buy the local gourmet pizza instead.

I'm not sure I'd call that "classism," just slightly out of touch.

[On the Road]

17. Little Caesar's Has Developed a New Way of Doing Business

at least in Baltimore. They started selling premade large cheese and pepperoni pizzas for $5.00 (it's been raised a little). For less time and money than it takes to get a Big Mac meal you can get a large pizza. Very successful in the place nearby -- it's a small takeout storefront, and there is always someone there.

Americans are not all that discriminating about pizza quality, so I suspect takeout and fast food are some of the major reasons. Plus there were too many pizza places to begin with. The margins are so high it attracts more restaurant owners than needed.

[Odin2005]

29. A Little Ceasar's here in Fargo does that, complete with drive-thru!

[JVS]

77. Hot-n-ready $5 is awesome.

[Xithras]

95. Yep, it's the only "chain" pizza I buy. The pizza sucks, but it's cheap and filling.

Whenever I want a good pizza, I hit a local place. Being a truebred Californian, I tend to like wierd things on my pizza anyway...I had a pesto, feta, basil veggetarian pizza just last night, and had a hummus pizza the time before that. One of my faves is a ginger-peanut chicken pizza with fontina cheese. Yeah, I'm odd...and the major chains don't make those :)

But when I want something dirt cheap and quick, those $5.99 Hot N Ready's are tempting and edible.

[ravenna_windream]

116. My husband is assistant manager at a chain and..

at least here, they're about to give some new pizzas a trial run (Dominos). If I remember correctly, they're going to try a Hawaiian fire pizza (the same pineapple/ham deal but with a hot sauce), white pizza (feta,sun dried tomatos, provolone, white sauce, spinach) and a few others.

He hates it but it's a good job in way of money/etc...

There is a local restaurant that isn't a chain which has some good pizza (Chanello's).

[slackmaster]

18. Franchise shops are more vulnerable than family-owned businesses

Because their pizza sucks, and they have to pay protection money to their corporate masters.

[RedCappedBandit]

23. Pizza chains don't make pizza

If you want a pie, go to a local pizzeria.

[baldguy]

24. I've got three locally-owned pizza shops in walking distance of my house.

Why would I want to buy from a crappy national chain?

[cobalt1999]

26. Exactly. We have more options now.

With better options, why would I choose the inferior product?

[Odin2005]

25. Here in Fargo a new place called "Pizza Ranch" opened recently.

Their pizza is awesome.

[ginnyinWI]

27. Aging demographic combined with economic pinch.

I make my own dough and it doesn't take a long time either. It's a whole lot cheaper even than grocery store frozen pizza, to say nothing of Pizza Hut or another pizza outfit. Less fat, less salt, no transfats, no processed meats.

When we go out, we want something more special than pizza. So I'd say it's too expensive for an ordinary meal--sub sandwiches or McD's are cheaper--and it's too plain for a fancy special meal.

Also: boomers getting older and not wanting pizza for health reasons, etc. My homemade is a lot healthier--less grease and only vegetarian toppings. When I think of Pizza Hut, I think of grease, cholesterol, huge starchy crusts and loads of salt!! I can find healthier stuff other fast food places if I really need to use them.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

28. Pizza Hut was good in the 80's... Papa John's was good in the 90's...

Neither one tastes nearly as good as it used to.

[Sequoia]

100. Pizza Hut in the 1970s.

When it came to our little town was radical since it was the first chain store. I really liked the crust, nice and thin. My fave was bell pepper, sausage and onion. It really is not the same anymore. Russian River Brewing Company's pizza in Santa Rosa, CA is quite tasty.

[tabasco]

108. Pizza Hut was good back then.

I liked the fact you could get beer there, too.

[JCMach1]

119. Yuck, Papa John's was NEVER good!

Pizza Hut in the 1970's was good though...

[Skink]

31. It's all in the crazy bread.

"If we're not selling crazy bread we are not making money, so push the crazy bread". Heard this once while waiting for my order.

[supernova]

32. We have a few of really good locally owned shops

but I don't live close enough for them to deliver. :P For delivery, my only options Domino's and Poppa John's. I just skip it.

There's Lily's and Bella Monica in Raleigh. Lily's is really a pizza joint. Bella Monica is a full, sort of nouveau Italian restaurant. I like to go there for lunch sometimes when I'm in raleigh. There's also Mellow Mushroom

Here in Durham, the Mellow Mushroom about your best bet.

For chains, I hear Cinelli's and California Pizza Kitchen are both good, but I haven't tried them.

[pipi_k]

43. Pizza illiterate...

I can't tell from MA pizza, CT pizza, NY or NJ pizza...


One thing I do know is that there was a little Greek restaurant in a neighboring city that made a switch to being a sports bar.

They made the most delicious pizza I've ever had.

some people like the thick crispy crust. Bleh. Might as well eat cardboard.


Give me the thick, chewy, doughy crust...like bread...topped with whatever you want and tons of cheese. mmmmmmmmm..... :)


Well. Don't you know that the place closed down. I guess not enough people liked the rather limited sports bar-type menu.

So it's back to eating the second runner-up frozen pizza

[infidel dog]

79. You have good instincts for a pizza illiterate. New Haven pizza is so goddamn overrated

I can barely make a wisecrack about it. Pizza "literates" are pretty overrated, also. I think most hard-core New Haven style aficionados, the truly obnoxious Professors of Pie, bullshit themselves and their friends into believing they aren't just going to get a pizza, they're absorbing the New Haven Pizza Experience. "Hey, let's go to Pepe's or Sally's and stand in line for an hour or so for a charred, paper-thin pie with no mozzarella on it and a crust hard enough to crack teeth on. We can pay through the nose for it too, to show how sophisticated we are..." Bollocks. Two of the best pizza houses in New Haven county are only a town or two from Ct. pizza ground zero and produce exquisite Greek artworks of crust and sauce and layers of Mozz to die for. Parthenons of pizza, if you will. I recommend Apollo's in Derby or Zois' in Seymour. Eat at either establishment and enter Elysium. You won't have to listen to pretentious wannabe Ivy-leaguers pontificate on the "sublime minimalism" of their overpriced, skimpy Wooster St. pies, either.

[Marrah_G]

44. People here in the North East have REAL pizza places on every corner.

I don't know anyone really who orders from the chains. Here at work I have 5 Pizza shops and 4 Chinese restaurants that deliver. I would never choose Pizza Hut or Papa Ginos over them and I certainly would NEVER order Dominos (I consider it the mcdonalds of pizza).

I support our local shops who make a far better product ad who genuinely care about their customers.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

49. We're out in the suburbs and we have a ton of local places to choose from

Why choose one of the chains?

[NeedleCast]

45. The National Chains Overbuilt

That's just one of their problems though. The big chains, between company stores and franchises, did exactly what Starbucks did, over-saturate the market.

I live in a very dense population area (northern Virginia). I have three pizza huts, two Papa Johns, two Dominos and several other smaller national chains that all deliver to my house. The area is totally saturated with pizza joints. Plus, you figure they're competing with several hundred restaurants all within a 3 or 4 mile range from my house.

But for me, it's because it's a weak product and a high price. I have a local mom-and-pop brick oven pizza place about two miles from me. They make a great pizza for less money than the national chains. They don't deliver, but at just a two mile drive, it's worth it to me to just go pick it up and save the two dollar delivery fee that all the national chains are charging now.

Pizza hut is going to charge me (even with specials) $12.00 for a large supreme pizza, plus two dollars delivery, plus two dollar tip...I'm paying 16 dollars for an average at best pizza.

With the brick oven place, I get the same pizza for 10.99$ and save the delivery fee and tip (and I feel better about buying local and supporting small business).

[keroro gunsou]

48. i think

that papa murphy's is killing them. fresh pizza, take it and bake it. generally cheaper, at least in my neck of the woods. and the onion blend rocks. i usually get a pie with just onions, cheese, and black olives, nom.

[earth mom]

99. Papa Murphy's ROCKS. Love the fresh ingredients!

They also give you a $2 coupon with every pizza you buy. So with the coupon, we spend $10 -12 for a great fresh pizza. :9

[Enthusiast]

51. Mom and Pop pizza

is nearly alway superior to chain pizza, even in Ohio. I'm serious. Stop laughing.

[Renew Deal]

52. Pizza seems to be doing well in my area

I'm on Long Island and NYC. I haven't seen any closures in pizza. Other things are going down. I saw a Quiznos closed the other day. But pizza seems to be OK.

The reason why the big pizza places could have trouble is that they have A LOT of expenses. I used to work at Pizza Hut when I was younger. They had all kinds of charges pushed down to the stores. Most of the charges were marketing, but there was other stuff. And this was a corporate owned store. Most of those Pizza Huts closed years ago. 1-2 survived. Dominos seems to do better and Papa Johns is expanding in this area.

[skooooo]

53. Maybe if some of them didn't charge $16 for a medium pizza..

...they wouldn't go out of business. Pizza Hut is ridiculous, and the others taste like )#$(%*$#)(.

[Bill McBlueState]

62. The pricing structure is irritating

Having a 14" two-item pizza delivered from a chain less than two miles up the road ends up costing me almost $20. If I go pick up a one-item pizza of the same size, it's closer to $10, even though it's almost the same amount of food.

Nickling and diming the customer seems to be the latest tactic to cope with the economy.

[demokatgurrl]

61. LOCAL pizza places are not-

Dominos, Pizza Hut and Papa Johns put out greasy crap, no wonder they are dying.

[tritsofme]

63. I'm from Chicago, you couldn't pay me to eat corporate "pizza"

I would much rather throw a Jack's pizza in the oven than suffer through a Dominoes or Pizza Hut.

Too much good local pizza to even consider it.

[KharmaTrain]

94. Lous, Giordanos, Home Run Inn, Unos, Dues...

When you grow up and live around Pizza like that, who gives a crap about Dominoes and its right wing nutcase owner.

And people wonder why I put up with the winters here. Can't beat the food.

Cheers...

[old mark]

65. We have not had a pizza from a chain pizza shop for maybe

14 years, and have no intention to go back.
They suck.

We have GREAT Italian restaurants locally that make real pizza, with real cheese, home made dough, all good ingredients and there is no comparison to the junk pizzas like Pizza Hut, etc.

I could not stand to waste my money on that stuff, and could care less if they all go down in flames.

They suck.

mark

[Tracer]

67. Why pay $20 for pizza delivery?

Pick up a ball of pizza dough at the grocery, plop on whatever toppings you like, and stick it in the oven.

You can make it just the way you like it and you won't have to complain about the quality of pizza in the chains.

[michreject]

70. I stopped eating Pizza Hut pizza's a long time ago

When they fired a delivery person for shooting some thugs that tried to hold him up. Same with Sunoco gas.

[KamaAina]

73. The Papa John's near me is in the process of jumping the shark

Used to be, I coul call them, and by the time I got down there (two blocks or so), it was ready.

No longer. The last two times, they've made me sit there for 10 or 15 minutes. :grr:

[Forkboy]

74. I have 7 pizza joints within a 5 minute drive from my house.

And probably another half dozen within 10 minutes. If they're going down it hasn't hit my area yet. Thank Goddess. :)

[Occam Bandage]

75. Until they can figure out how to make a decent deep-dish, I'll stick with making my own. Recipe:

One cup cornmeal. Five cups flour. One tablespoon instant mashed potato flakes. Two cups water. Half-cup vegetable oil. Quarter-cup olive oil. Two packs yeast. Mix 'em up. Let it rise. Punch it down.

Lay down some olive oil and cornmeal on your pan. A big skillet will work too. Put the crust down, maybe 1/4 inch thick.

Toppings: 2/3 lb cheese, sliced. A 28-oz can of plum tomatoes, squished up by hand. Basil, oregano, garlic, salt, parmesan, olive oil on top. Throw on a few pepperonis too.

Put in oven at 475 for 35 min. Sautee spinach with onion and garlic. Remove pizza from oven. Place spinach on top. Eat.

[supernova]

82. The consensus seems to be

that locally owned mom & pop pizzarias or the upscale gourmet establishments who hand craft their dough and use wood ovens are doing pretty well. The chains, with mass tastes and conformity, not so much.

[Roadless]

115. In Chicagoland we have "Bacci's" Pizzeria

....in about 18 locations. They are pretty good and seem to be doing ok while the stores around them close. People always seem to be willing to pay for good pizza.

[Dorian Gray]

83. That's because those three places stink...

Give me a local made to order pizza any day over those things.

[chatnoir]

88. Those chains don't make pizza, they make 'cardboard'

masquerading as pizza.

Then again even the mom & pop places around where we live now (we're Chicagoans) don't do a decent pie. NY's, though, is excellent, though it's almost a different animal altogether from the Chicago one.

[ejpoeta]

91. we get pizza every couple of weeks from a local pizza place.

i don't think they are hurting, as they are the only one around here that delivers. Usually i make my own, but sometimes... we like to order out.

[ejpoeta]

92. you couldn't pay me to eat at dominoes. YUCK!!! pizza hut used to be ok

but I haven't gone there in years. papa johns.... isn't one around here.

[tabbycat31]

93. pizza's thriving around here

I have 4 pizza places (CBO Pizza, Vic's, Pizza on Main, and Ferarros) in my one square mile town.

I haven't had Dominos or Papa Johns since college. Pizza Hut I get cravings for from time to time, but there are none near me so I go to Target for that.

[Xithras]

97. The problem with the big chains is that they sell the same thing

A pepperoni pizza from Pizza Hut isn't all that different than a pepperoni pizza from Domino's. Neither are very different than a pepperoni pizza from WalMart, and none of those are as good as a pepperoni pizza from a local chain.

Interestingly, some chains are doing extremely well. Chains like California Pizza Kitchen or Extreme Pizza, which offer unique takes on pizza not available anywhere else (chicken tandoori pizza anyone?) are doing pretty well in the current economy. People like variety, and those chains are offering unique products that taste pretty damned good.

The only chains facing demise are the ones who think that it's OK to charge $30 for a greasy cardboard box full of pizza that doesn't taste all that different from the box that delivered it.

[Generic Other]

101. In Little Italy, I enjoyed hand tossed NY pizza with an attitude

Ate my slice under the eye of the statue of St. Gennaro in a shop window next door. Best damn pizza ever!

[Blue_Tires]

102. Pizza places? I'm still trying to figure out what happened to my video game arcades!

[ecstatic]

104. They're kind of pricey...for one thing

I ordered a small pizza and wings--after adding in the 4 dollar tip it was 27 dollars!!! WTF? I could have gone to a real restaurant for that price! But I was too lazy to leave the house at that particular time.

Also, some pizza places are getting sloppy about the quality of the food.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

113. Dear god! $27????

A large pizza and an order of wings around here is about $15-16.

[tabasco]

106. For me, they are.

I went to a Godfathers and got a pizza with three toppings. 23 &#*&^&% dollars!

Screw that action.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

107. Lombardi's in NYC and Philly

Greatest pizza in the country. Perfection itself. End of discussion.

Chicago style is good, but it's in a different category.

[supernova]

109. Craving Pizza now, Damn you Lost in CT!!

*shakes fist*

And bread really doesn't like me! x(

:P

[bosbdd2009]

111. Maybe?

I hardly ever go to any pizza places anymore, maybe once a month we get a pizza and breadsticks from pizza hut, and take it home to eat it, but that's about it. I go to a local bar every sunday and eat home made pizza, it's 1/2 price on sundays.

If 2 of us go, we get a 12 inch thin crust pizza with 3 toppings for $3.75, and if 3 of us go we get the 16 inch with 3 toppings for $5.75.

[Quantess]

120. It truly is a mystery, because pizza is affordable family food.

Pizza is satisfying and cheap, and if you don't eat too much of it you won't gain weight. That sounds perfect for today's family, right?

But maybe the waistline has a voice.
Steamed cabbage and tofu for the family? Steamed cabbage and tofu is even cheaper to eat, just as filling, you can eat all you want and it isn't fattening at all.

Yeah, right. I would be surprised if that were the reason.

[Lost in CT]

121. I'm not sure it is all that cheap anymore....

Actually on correction I'm not sure the big 3 chains are all that cheap anymore.

Premade fresh and frozen pies plus pizza buffets like CiCi's seem a better value and often a superior pizza.

And strangely enough people simple may not be eating as much pizza as they used to.