NORML Breaking News: California Assemblyman Introduces Legislation To Tax And Regulate Marijuana

[Wiley50]

Tx and Regulate Like Alcohol!

http://blog.norml.org/2009/02/23/norml-breaking-news-california-assemblyman-introduces-legislation-to-tax-and-regulate-marijuana-like-alcohol/


Speaking at a landmark press conference today, California Assemblyman Tom Ammiano (D-San Francisco) introduced comprehensive legislation to tax and regulate the commercial production and sale of cannabis in a manner similar to alcohol.

“With the state in the midst of an historic economic crisis, the move towards regulating and taxing marijuana is simply common sense. This legislation would generate much needed revenue for the state, restrict access to only those over 21, end the environmental damage to our public lands from illicit crops, and improve public safety by redirecting law enforcement efforts to more serious crimes”, Assemblyman Ammiano said. “California has the opportunity to be the first state in the nation to enact a smart, responsible public policy for the control and regulation of marijuana.”

The proposal is the first marijuana legalization bill ever introduced in California.

“It’s time for California taxpayers to stop wasting money trying to enforce marijuana prohibition, and to realize the tax benefits from a legal, regulated market instead,” said Dale Gieringer, director of California NORML, a sponsor of the bill.

As introduced, Ammiano’s measure would allow for the licensed production and sale of cannabis to consumers age 21 and over. Licensed cultivators would pay an excise tax of $50 per ounce of cannabis. In addition, the proposal would impose a sales tax on commercial sales. (Ammiano’s proposal would not affect the state’s medical marijuana law, allowing patients and caregivers to grow their own medicine.)

If enacted, the measure would raise over $1 billion per year in state revenue, according to an economic analysis by California NORML, available online here.

Ammiano’s bill comes at a time of growing public support for legalizing marijuana. A recent Zogby poll reported that nearly six in ten west coast voters support taxing and regulating marijuana like alcohol.

Faced with a $40 billion budget deficit, other public officials have joined in endorsing Ammiano’s bill, including San Francisco Sheriff Mike Hennessy and Betty Yee, a member of the State Board of Equalization, which oversees collection of sales taxes.

Currently, tens of millions of dollars are paid annually in state and local taxes by licensed distributors of medical marijuana. However, these sales only represent a fraction of the overall statewide marijuana market. “The millions of dollars raised each year on the sales of medicinal cannabis is only the tip of the iceberg,” Gieringer said. “Kudos to Assemblyman Ammiano for proposing a path-breaking bill that would benefit our economy, safety and freedom by making marijuana a winning proposition for California.”

[suede1]

1. You are the man, Tom Ammiano.

[MrSlayer]

2. About time someone breaks the ice.

Prohibition is ridiculous.

[FreeState]

3. K&R n/t

[sabbat hunter]

4. NJ state Senate

passed a bill today legalizing medical marijuana.

Go NJ. That is the first step!

[Zhade]

8. Go NJ indeed!

: )

[msongs]

5. people need to just grow their own - no taxes for parasites

for personal use only, no need to mess with anything other than plant it, water it, etc.

no meddling from parasite politicians who cannot even meet a constitutional budget deadline.

Msongs

[Baikonour]

6. Why not tax it? It's a fine way to rejuvinate the California economy.

I hope they pass it, and I hope it does bring life back to the California economy.

[FreeState]

9. I cant imagine the Governor signing it into law unfortunately n/t

[tama]

12. Arnie the pot head?

He just might... the real problem is with Feds and UN...

[Baikonour]

13. He might.

He knows his term is up soon. He might as well do some good while he's still in.

Gavin Newsom is supposed to be running in 2010. Could you imagine if he won?

[tama]

11. Does any state

tax home wine? Sharing home wine with friends? Why should home grown non-commercial hemp be taxed if home wine is not? That was missing from the bill, I'm not quite sure what the postion is re home grown organic bud.

[eridani]

15. Some will probably be grown commercially

Don't see how they could tax anyone for growing their own. That would be like having to pay a tax on your garden veggies.

[Baikonour]

16. How about requiring a license to grow.

Anyone over 21 can have a license, but it costs a fee to receive one. You will also be taxed annually if you own a license.

Just an idea. I mean, it would be ideal to just let anyone and everyone grow their own plants for free, but marijuana is the largest cash crop in California, and taxing it could really do some good for their economy, as well as set a positive precedent for the rest of the country.

[eridani]

18. I don't think anybody would object to that n/t

[Zhade]

22. NO. I'm already legally allowed to grow, why should I have to pay?

Your last line is the only reason I might be swayed.

[Zhade]

10. I'm cool with them taxing it if it's sold in stores.

Plus, we can still grow our own. Win win!

[eShirl]

17. not everyone has a green thumb

does everyone brew their own beer, bake their own bread?

[Baikonour]

19. Further, growing high quality marijuana is actually rather time consuming and expensive.

And quite difficult if you're a first time grower.

[dysfunctional press]

23. not really.

the first time i grew, i ended up with over a quarter pound of Excellent weed, without much trouble at all- i grew it in large containers on my back deck and back yard in chicago. i continued doing so every summer for 5 years, until we moved, and never had a problem.

[tanngrisnir3]

24. No, not really. I grew up in the Big Sur area, and knew plenty...

who did it. There's a reason they call it a weed. It grows like one outside.

Now if you're talking about pain-in-the-ass indoor operations, that's something else.

[Baikonour]

25. Yes, I am talking about indoor operations.

That's where the majority of extremely high grade marijuana comes from. That's not to say that outdoor marijuana is bad, but if you take meticulous care of your indoor operation, you will yield much more potent weed. And that's the point, right?

[tanngrisnir3]

29. No, it's actually primarily genetics, not being grown indoors.

After that, one does one's best not to lose potency after harvest by improper curing/storage.

There is nothing particularly potent about a plant just because it was grown indoors.

[Baikonour]

30. In my own personal experience, indoor marijuana has always been more potent than outdoor. nt

[tanngrisnir3]

31. I'm sure that's true but consider:

(a) there is no way to be 100% sure of where anything comes from and
(b) your personal experience doesn't invalidate the single dominant factor, genetics.

Take any stuff you've had that was grown indoors and plant a seed of it in a greenhouse in a yard somewhere. The potency will be exactly the same.

[Baikonour]

34. I'm sure this is true in most cases, but

Isn't it true that weed grown hydroponically yields a higher THC level?

[Shakespeare]

35. Nope; that's a myth.

If you're curious about the arcana of marijuana (and just generally a great read), I highly recommend Michael Pollan's The Botany of Desire.

It's broken into four parts--apples, tulips, marijuana and potatoes. The apples section alone is worth the price of admission.

[tanngrisnir3]

36. No, absolutely not. What hydro does is....

allow for far more many (and easily controllable) grow cycles per unit of time (usually a year).

Outside, 1 crop per year, lots of variable.
Inside, 4, sometimes 5 and much more control.

When it comes to potency, it's basically genetics, genetics, genetics. And then curing and storage.

[Baikonour]

38. Hmm. Then what I've read is wrong.

Welcome to DU, by the way.

[tanngrisnir3]

44. Thanks.

[Zhade]

47. No, that's anti-pot propaganda.

NT!

[Occulus]

56. But see, while I wait for mine to grow,

I can run down and buy a pack of joints any old time.

In fact, I might not even bother growing it if I can just go buy twenty killer joints for ten bucks or so.

It's sort of the same reason most people buy their produce, rather than grow it in their backyards. It's convenient.

[Zhade]

7. YES YES YES -- re-legalize this proven-beneficial herb!

Medical science proves its many, many uses -- and destroys the propaganda about its "harm".

It's time to end the war against this plant!

[Hepburn]

14. ...

...:smoke: K&R

[dysfunctional press]

20. liscensed growers get taxed at $50 per ounce...?

there will still be a lot of unlicensed growing at that rate.

[dysfunctional press]

21. wouldn't FEDERAL law take precedence...?

:shrug:

[Baikonour]

27. Yes, but if this bill does indeed get passed...

Obama will more than likely stop federal raids on California. In fact, even if this doesn't get passed, the raids on the medical dispensaries will stop once Obama assigns a new head of DEA.

[dysfunctional press]

37. "Obama will more than likely stop federal raids on California."

where are you getting your info?

[Zhade]

48. Obama himself stated several times to the press that he will NOT use the DEA to raid clinics...

...or go after patients.

It's a matter of public record.

[dysfunctional press]

51. going after medical mj patients is not the same thing.

i'm aware of those statements that he made about clinics. but if california legalizes it for general use in the face of federal prohibiton would be a much different scenario. there's no telling what kind of reaction there would be on a federal/executive level.

[lonestarnot]

26. Hot diggity, wheels turning, tongues wagging, people thinking!

:thumbsup: Don't forget to the savings in prison population!

[1]

33. the prison population will not change one bit unless people stop growing their own...

if it is legalized that doesn't mean you can now grow your own. it would just mean you could buy legal, corporation manufactured pot that was properly tax stamped by the government. at a big price.

if it is legalized that doesn't mean they would not pursue those that grow their own. they would with a vengeance to maintain the tax revenue stream.

i don't think you understand the concept of legalization. it does not mean a free-for-all, it means a tightly regulated and enforced government market. like cigarettes and liquor.

google "moonshine" and see how lax they are about the concept. they would only do this for the tax money. and they are pretty strict about their money.


this law will never pass anyway, so this discussion is pretty silly...

[dysfunctional press]

40. people can make beer and wine at home without paying alcohol taxes.

:shrug:

[1]

42. but people can't produce any liquor at all without going to jail...

now, honestly... how do you think the government will handle legalized marijuana if it is to become this significant tax base savior that all here think it could be?

like beer? or like liquor?

hummm...

[dysfunctional press]

45. making liquor is a much more intensive process...

with pot- you just put a seed in the ground.

but- i do believe that if/when it's legalized, a lisence will be required to grow legally- which i support...but the $50/ounce surcharge listed in the article seems kind of steep for personal growing.

[Zhade]

49. Except for us patients, of course. We would still be allowed to grow.

NT!

[KG]

28. fuck legalization.

[Baikonour]

39. That's it?

[Zhade]

50. What? WHY?

I could see you saying "fuck decriminalization" (since it shouldn't be illegal in the first place).

[KG]

59. actually, my position is 'decriminalization, not legalization'. - no laws regarding MJ.

'legalization', as represented in this discussion, would imply it would still be a kind of 'controled substance' as it is now. it would still be illegal for me to grow, or buy, sell, or use as i see fit outside of some kind of govt sanction.

[4lbs]

32. Add in the billion or so annually they'll save by not having to arrest, prosecute, and incarcerate

pot growers/possessors.

[1]

41. but they would still arrest, prosecute, and incarcerate...

anyone that was growing marijuana outside of the new legalization laws. the corporations will own this new legalization. not the you or you bud in the hills. and anyone not complying with the government regulations and taxation issues will find themselves arrested, prosecuted, and incarcerated.

do they not do that now with those illegally manufacturing liquor?

is your mind of the consequences that simple?

[4lbs]

43. How many people now are prosecuted annually for illegally manufacturing liquor?

How many were prosecuted under prohibition?

The difference in numbers would be vast.

CA arrests and prosecutes over a hundred thousand every year under drug charges. Half of that is easily marijuana. The rest is coke, heroin, crack, etc.

Would CA arrest and prosecute more than 50 thousand every year if this bill is passed? Doubtful. It would be several thousand annually only. Leaving 45+ thousand fewer prosecutions.

$40K to prosecute and incarcerate a person for marijuana charges.

45 thousand fewer prosecutions multiplied by $40K annually savings each, is well over a billion dollars.

[1]

46. i'm not going to argue with your numbers (since you apparently pulled them out of your ass)...

i was arguing about the blanket statements that "there would be no more arrests, prosecutions or incarcerations" if marijuana was legalized. yeah, there would be. the same cops, the same job.

i was arguing about the blanket statements that "we could now just grow our own, they let people brew beer, right?" no. you couldn't. it would be tightly enforced. the same cops, the same job.

if. there could be a significant tax revenue stream by doing this, and if. they could somehow convince the legislature to pass this bill into law. and if. the governator would magically sign this. and if. the federal government would not immediately step in and fuck with it... the result would not be buying $50 lbs at the 7-11 and everyone growing their own and the police suddenly backing off from any enforcement.

i thought like a child once too.



i get the euphoria about a bill to legalize pot. yay! but introducing a bill is just introducing a bill. it doesn't mean shit. how many times did dennis kucinich introduce articles of impeachment against bush as a bill? and how far did they go?



fuck it. i'll shut up. y'all have fun and enjoy this about a bill that could never be passed. you don't need me to offer a different opinion. continue with yours. they are much more fanciful.

have fun, buds...

[4lbs]

53. I did not pull them out of my ass. Here's where I got them from.

Here you go. Actually, the number is higher, because I was originally referencing older information. There were actually more marijuana arrests than the 50,000 I used.


http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/98952/the_drug_war's_latest_tally:_872,721_pot_arrests,_an_all-time_high/

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/53

872,000+ pot arrests nationwide in 2007. Almost half of all drug arrests nationally (around 47.5% of about 1.85 million) were for cannabis/pot/marijuana.

89% of those marijuana arrests are for simple possession (775,000 / 872,000) . Not dealing, growing, or transporting elsewhere. Just having an ounce or two in a baggie, or some joints.

Now, apply that to CA which had about 75,000 marijuana arrests in 2007.

http://www.mpp.org/states/california/news/california-sees-nearly-75000.html

Statistically, 89% possession, means more than 66,000 were for simple possession.


With the passage of the bill, we'd have nearly all those possession arrests go away.

Now, for the cost of arrest, prosecution, and incarceration.

http://realcostofprisons.org/blog/archives/2006/06/cost_of_incarce.html

That's just from 2005. In FY 2005, it cost over $23K to incarcerate someone. I'm sure it's more now, in 2008 or 2009. Add in the cost of arresting, detaining, and then prosecuting, that total cost can easily go to $40K per marijuana possession conviction.

Once again, multiply $40K by my lower conservative estimate of 45,000 for simple marijuana possessions. That's well over a billion dollars.

If we used the actual higher number it would be about two billion dollars annually to arrest, prosecute, and jail marijuana drug possessors in CA.

[dysfunctional press]

52. and those already in prison for using, selling, growing, and/or transporting wouldn't be affected...

seeing as they are in prison for breaking laws that were in place when they did it. repealing those laws now doesn't make them innocent then.

[Warren DeMontague]

54. Right, and as such, ending prohibition did absolutely nothing to stop Al Capone, speakeasies, and

the bootlegging industry. It changed -nothing-.

Oh, wait, it did.

[seemslikeadream]

55. Purps

Purps has become shorthand for almost any lavender-colored pot. The best representations provide a sweet candy flavor and a mild yet uplifting high.




Super Silver Haze
Super Silver Haze is renowned for stimulating properties and is sometimes referred to as "ampheta-weed."

[Roadless]

57. About time

Mild drugs and alcohol are perfectly fine in moderation.

[Roadless]

58. Good idea

It's a mild drug, no worse than alcohol unless abused(just like alcohol).


Getting things done in the new economy.

[MagickMuffin]

60. Medical Marijuana Shops are ALREADY paying state taxes as well as paying federal taxes

I watched the CNBC program "Marijuana Inc. and they interviewed a Medical Marijuana Shop and he said he pays $300,000 in state taxes and another $600,000 in federal taxes. Now if every Medical Marijuana Shop has to pay that kind of moo-la then the state is raking in a lot of dough.

You can see some of the clips here, right hand side: http://search.cnbc.com/main.do?target=all&keywords=marijuana

However, I couldn't find the one where the Medical Marijuana Shop owner mentions his taxes. The name of the shop is Blue Sky Cafe. I did find an article after googling that mentions the taxes but it is on a LaRouche website :puke: