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The Worst is yet to come….The Alt-A / Credit Default Swap Crisis….

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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 10:24 AM
Original message
The Worst is yet to come….The Alt-A / Credit Default Swap Crisis….
Some weird happened. It seems that our biggest banks, investment houses and insurance companies woke up one fine day 10 years or so ago and decided they were actually London betting houses.

And they didn’t make millions or billions of dollars of bets. No, they made HUNDREDS OF TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS of bets.

How the hell did this happen? Well, let’s put it this way: Suppose I told you that an event was 99.999 % sure to happen 3 years from now and that you could legally bet on it, backed by the nation’s largest banks and insurance companies, and that the bet would pay off 100 to 1. Would you place the bet?

And, on the other side of the betting window, if I told you that if you constructed a bet that would attract billions of dollars of wagers, but wouldn’t pay off for several years; I’d give you a $50 million bonus that wouldn’t be taken back no matter how much would be lost when the wager came due. Would you construct the bet? Oh, now you might think that you have the moral fiber to resist such a temptation, but it doesn’t matter. Just about every decision maker in High Finance said “Yes! Yes, I’ll take those bets!”

So here we are. The bets were called Credit Default Swaps (CDS) and a large portion of them were made against so-called Alt-A mortgages. In case you haven’t been following the story, The “Alt-A Mortgage Crisis” is the upscale, time-release version of the Sub Prime mortgage crisis we just suffered through. I say “upscale, time-release” because the loan amounts were much larger and included teaser interest rates for the first several years of the loans that made them affordable until the rates reset. The biggest part of the resets are due latter this year:



And it wasn’t just one bet per mortgage. With the repeal of Glass-Steagall Act, hundreds or thousands of bets could be made against each mortgage and by parties that had no relationship to the mortgage. Hence the “London betting house” analogy. That’s why the numbers are so astronomical.

So, what can be done? Well…

1.) We do nothing and watch the nation’s largest banks and insurance companies go bankrupt. Lehman Brothers on steroids.

2.) We try to make the bets good. How we can make tens or hundreds of trillions of dollars of bets good is anyone’s guess.

3.) We step in and make sure that almost no Alt-A loan goes bad. BTW: I think that’s in the “Economic Stimulus Bill”. But even with more favorable rates, I’m not sure people won’t default – they still have real-estate taxes and utility bills on houses they could never afford.

4.) We could nationalize the banks and insurance companies after declaring all their current CDS contracts null and void. That should prove interesting to all the foreign bettors who currently fund our deficits.

Finally, what I find interesting is that so little of all the above is talked about openly in the press. Oh, we hear a lot about "The Sub Prime Crisis", but only a little about CDS and Alt-A. I’m guessing the thought is that if the full extent of the horror were known, people would retreat to their basements with stockpiles of canned goods and ammunition. Looking at the stock market for the past few weeks, I’m not sure that hasn’t already happened.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. The analogy that makes sense to many: Buying 20 life insurance policies
on a guy playing a game of Russian roulette.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. reset button?
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. They touched on Alt-A mortgages on 60 Minutes a few weeks back.
From what the expert was saying, it will be even worse than last year. As to why the media isn't discussing it, I suppose because there is no solution.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Or maybe they're setting up Obama to take the fall....n/t
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. That's a given. nt
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Oh, yeah, I didn't think about that, but sounds right.
n/t
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
5. I still don't understand what these mortgages are. Anyone want to try and explain one more time
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Mr. Mortgage did a good YouTube on it last year:
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. thanks!
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Yes he did.
Thank you.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
8. Sorry, alt A, forgot before making my reply
Edited on Tue Feb-24-09 10:56 AM by RB TexLa
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
10. Food, guns and plenty of ammo here.
Been stockpiling it for years. I didn't know how it would happen, but I knew Bush Gang and the boys had something planned. Been trying to warn people for decades. From what I saw from being on the inside really scared me. These people are nuts.
Back in the early eighties, we called them the 'crazies.' They brought you Iran Contra, BCCI and others but that was just small potatoes.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. kick
:kick:
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. ...but it's all the fault of Bill Clinton making bankers...
...give dicey loans to minorities who couldn't afford them! Megadittos!

:sarcasm:
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
13. Credit default swaps are the Hydrogen Bombs of this Financial Crisis...
Over $160 Trillion in outstanding derivatives, and credit default swaps(which were intended to be insurance against losses) are basically not worth the paper they are written on to cover the massive losses.

It all comes down to the major financial institutions are and have been insolvent because they are hooked into derivative losses which are unpayable.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. "The Good" and "The Bad" are now mixed together....
One could almost defend the use of a CDS to protect a Collateralized Bond Obligation (CBO) bundle. Almost.

But raw bets by third parties that mortgages would fail are completely indefensible - ON BOTH SIDES.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
16. Another "900 lb. gorilla" that nobody wants to look at.
We're still "whistling past the graveyard" with eyes tightly shut. When you look at the numbers of all the various schemes that the financial sector has created, it is clear that the whole financial system of, not only the US, but the world is collapsing.

The numbers exceed the entire global product for over a decade. IOW there is simply not enough money in the world to pay for the loot-fest.
:kick: & R

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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. 2a. We call the bets a "push"
by declaring them null and void.

And yesterday.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Something like that. As I said above, some uses of CDS seem more legitimate than others....
We need to at least null and void the third party bets.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. isn;t that listed as part of number 4....?
declaring the cds's null and void = "all bets are off"
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
20. Why Not Cut Taxes on The Rich?
Doesn't that solve everything? :sarcasm:
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
21. are alt-a mortgages on commercial property?
because with all the newly built strip malls being deserted- that's yet ANOTHER credit bomb headed our way.
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buzzard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
23. If you haven't seen the the two John's on the Sub Prime Crisis it is worth watching it might make
you laugh for a bit. I have been wondering why the silence on the CDS and Alt A myself but I think the possible outcomes are beyond what anyone in power wants to contemplate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJmTCYmo9g&feature=related
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-09 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. For British ROFL Humor .....check out their "Financial Advisor" segment, too
Edited on Wed Feb-25-09 09:00 AM by KoKo
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buzzard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-09 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
29.  I have watched them all I do love British humour and these guys have the "money problem"
pegged.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. They ARE quite funny, although their racist dig in subprime
put me off a bit. The time to STOP the inaccuracy that financially unsophiticated, poor people of colour caused the economy to collapse.

It's FALSE and a very dangerous meme.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
24. Kick
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
25. FYI: Here's the source of the graph.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-09 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
27. .
:-(
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onlyadream Donating Member (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-09 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
28. how we got here
Here are two links that simply explain why we got to where we are.
Read the transcripts:

The Giant Pool of Money:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=355

AND

Another Frightening Show About the Economy:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1263
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