raccoon
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 09:14 AM
Original message |
College costs have increased more than the overall inflation rate for decades now. How come? |
|
One reason for RECENT cost increases is that in many states, funding to colleges has been drastically cut.
Another reason, IMO, for cost increases in any decade is that college presidents like to have a continually growing organism to rule over. Opening more branches and buildings would increase costs, also necessitate more staff.
The rank and file are not getting the money, I promise you that. At the community college where I work, 50 percent of the staff/faculty are PART-TIME, NO BENEFITS. And those hourly wages are usually low.
Any other ideas about these cost increases? :shrug:
|
ThomWV
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 09:18 AM
Response to Original message |
1. In many states its because of decreased funding from State resources |
|
The portion of their funding that the schools receive from the states is decreasing and so they are making up the difference by increasing tuition.
|
October
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 09:19 AM
Response to Original message |
|
I witnessed this in the early 1980s. I worked at an Ivy League university and costs skyrocketed beyond belief. More people started applying to these "high tier" colleges, and at the time it seemed the tuition was being raised to discourage.
The endowments at these places were/are outrageous. They needed to hire teams just to manage the funds! Meanwhile, they frowned upon unionization, did not pay their "support staff" well, and as you say, hired part-time or temp workers so as not to pay benefits. With billions in the bank! How much is enough! Yeah, I learned then that these institutions are anything but liberal. As soon as they had money, they became conservative in their thinking.
|
TechBear_Seattle
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 09:19 AM
Response to Original message |
3. You already hit the biggest reason |
|
"In many states, funding to colleges has been drastically cut."
The states are refusing to subsidize the cost of higher education, thanks largely to tax cuts. Students are being forced to carry the burden.
Another problem is the ever increasing cost of text books. For some absurd reason, students are being forced to pay $120 to $170 for a book they need for one semester, and which will be "out of date" and replaced anyway within a year or two (how, pray tell, does a math text or book on the history of western civ up to the Renaissance go out of date?)
|
sledgehammer
(774 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-26-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
22. Textbooks are such a huge scam |
|
The same book that is sold in the US as a hardcover/color version costs $120, and is sold abroad as a paperback/b&w for around $40. And I'm not taking fake copies. It's the same book, published by the same company, and printed in the same place as the hardcover version (wherever that maybe). There's some disclaimer on the book saying that if you purchase it in the US/Canada, you are doing something wrong blah blah. Whatever.
Then there's often also a version of the book for some of the really poor countries (e.g. South Asia) which is printed there and sold for around $20 or $30. Granted this version is printed on pretty cheap quality paper and it is printed abroad, but you get my point.
|
Coyote_Bandit
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 09:20 AM
Response to Original message |
|
because they can - and because they view themselves as a business rather than an educational institution.
We have this idea that if somebody has a degree then they are educated and can get a good job. Ain't necessarily so.
Being well read and knowledgeable is a matter of personal desire and discipline. Anyone with basic literacy skills can be self-educated should they choose. And there are a lot of folks with those degrees who choose to be ignorant.
As for the employment picture it is well documented that over 50% of graduates work in fields in which their college degrees are irrelevant. It is also well documented that many technical and trade workers earn more than many degreeed workers.
|
SheilaT
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 09:21 AM
Response to Original message |
|
the states themselves underwrote a large percentage of college costs. In recent years those costs have been shifted to students.
And it's a huge myth that sports programs bring money in to the school which helps the bottom line. In reality, big time sports programs cost the college. The other myth connected to sports is that having a winning division I team brings in greater alumni donations. Yes, donations may improve, but not enough to make up the costs. Besides, guess which college/university out there has the highest rate of alumni donations? Take a guess.
It's not a Big Ten School.
Nor any other big Division I school you can name.
Nor an Ivy League School.
It's that sports powerhouse Cal Tech.
Kinda makes you think about some of the conventional wisdom, doesn't it?
|
bluestateguy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 09:22 AM
Response to Original message |
6. Your points are spot on |
|
Administrators salaries rise much faster than faculty salaries, which typically only keep up with inflation (unless you publish a big time book or something, in which case you'll get a bigger raise).
I would also add, though, that many schools are also paying for more campus and social services for students than had been the case at colleges in the past. On campuses today you have women's centers, "multicultural" centers (whatever that means), counseling centers, recreational centers (have to carry a lot of liability insurance for that one), computer labs, etc. These things all cost money too.
|
whoneedstickets
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 09:34 AM
Response to Original message |
7. I'll avoid the anti-intellectualism creeping into this and offer ...... |
|
Edited on Wed Feb-25-09 09:35 AM by whoneedstickets
..the following reasons in no particular order:
1) health care costs (which grew even faster than tuition) 2) expectations of new technology (computer labs) which really took off in the 90's -- and the obsolescence cycle 3) expectations of social services and counseling -- colleges often have numerous staff clinicians, social workers and psychologists. The number of non-academic positions relative to faculty has skyrocketed as colleges compete to offer more tutoring, skills drop-in centers, minority student outreach programs etc. 4) Health club quality rec centers -- again more college competition on amenities 5) Better quality housing/dorms -- same dynamic
Back in the day a college was mostly faculty, facilities & maintenance staff, some executive office staff (registrar) and a nurses office. Students expected to live like STUDENTS now they live like resort hotel guests...AND PAY for it!
|
skooooo
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #7 |
surrealAmerican
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #7 |
16. All those, and the reduction in state funding, and ... |
|
... in recent times, you need to remember that university endowments have taken as big a hit as other investments. If a university lost money on its investments, there is often nowhere else to recoup that money than tuition.
|
Romulox
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 09:37 AM
Response to Original message |
8. My land grant college was OBSESSED with building projects |
|
It wasn't hard to see why tuition went up 7-10% every year--hideous new brick and glass buildings everywhere, crowding out the historic buildings. Truly wasteful, and truly and eyesore.
|
Lyric
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #8 |
12. Did you go to WVU too? |
Romulox
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
17. No--a school much farther north (with similar colors) |
|
But I betcha the buildings look much the same.
|
leftofthedial
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 09:42 AM
Response to Original message |
9. I teach in a college. Salaries are not the reason costs have grown. |
havocmom
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 09:48 AM
Response to Original message |
10. Partly because the 'inflation rate' is manipulated to look lower than it really is? |
|
And states are strapped for case, cutting funding.
|
customerserviceguy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 10:07 AM
Response to Original message |
11. Let's just call higher education what it is |
|
a big fat bureaucracy. Every dollar that has been made available to higher education through increases in loan programs, grants, and tax credits has been voraciously sucked up by that bureaucracy.
It exists to perpetuate itself, and turning out people whose education is relevant to being able to get jobs to pay back both society and Sallie Mae is secondary.
Yep, I'm bitter. But at least I didn't leave with a pile of student loans to pay off when I went back to school from 2001-2003.
|
Bigmack
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 10:12 AM
Response to Original message |
13. Academic tinfoil hat.. |
|
firmly planted on my head, I offer this possibility in addition to some of the other, more rational explanations offered above.
Rising costs are putting advanced education out of reach of the middle class, and that's just part of the plan of the Right Wing to build a two-tier society.... the Have-Nots, and the Republicans.
|
sweetpotato
(678 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 10:14 AM
Response to Original message |
15. South Carolina decreased state funding last year by 17% |
|
We've been cut to the bone in higher education in South Carolina.
Governor Sanford thinks we (colleges and universities in SC) should do without state support, I think.
|
zazen
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 10:42 AM
Response to Original message |
18. google Bousquet's _How the University Works_ and website of same name |
|
Brilliant analysis, related to your concerns about real dynamics underlying tuition increases.
He compares "managed education" to "managed health care" and talks about the deliberate creation of surplus doctorates to supply cheap graduate student and adjunct labor at the expense of decent paying faculty lines, faculty governance, and quality of student education. Administrative lines have ballooned. The ratio of tenure-stream to contingent teaching has reversed from 70/30% to 30%/70% over the past 30-odd years. He argue that the university doesn't just reflect late-stage capitalism--it _drives_ late-stage capitalism, and just like CEOS have gotten rich and powerful, so have university administrations, at the expense of everyone else. One of the most incisive works I've read in a while. I cited it in a job talk I gave two days ago (to university administrators), because I guess I have a death wish and don't ever want to work again!!
|
jpgray
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Wed Feb-25-09 10:43 AM
Response to Original message |
19. In -completely- unrelated news, the University of Minnesota is building a bigass ugly stadium |
|
Sponsored by... can you guess what sort of institution? :eyes:
|
SheilaT
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-26-09 02:34 PM
Response to Original message |
20. Here's something else. |
|
My son, who is a senior at the University of Tulsa, has complained bitterly about the student section at the football station being moved to a worse and worse location every year. According to him renovations (which may have included sky boxes of some kind, I'm not entirely clear on that) have reduced the number of seats there. And the students, who truly are the biggest fans, are being shut out. He's quite bitter about it, and this would tend to have a negative impact on his inclination to donate to them down the road.
|
JerseygirlCT
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-26-09 02:48 PM
Response to Original message |
21. I'd love to see it all laid out, actually |
|
I attended a private college. The tuition there now is 8 times what it was 30 years ago. Why? How?
I'd really love to see the figures. It's a great place, and they've definitely done a lot of needed capital work (much lovelier, much better facilities now), but that cannot account for all of it.
At my fifth reunion, someone in the administration actually admitted (no, almost bragged) that they raised the tuition so as to be in line with the Ivies. As if, charging less (in a fairly low cost of living area, too) would indicate the school was not as good.
|
sledgehammer
(774 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-26-09 02:55 PM
Response to Original message |
23. Take a look at University spelled backwards... |
|
My brother noted this. It's absolutely pointless, but I found it interesting nonetheless:
U-N-I-V-E-R-S-I-T-Y
Y-T I-S R-E-V-I-N-U (~It is revenue)
|
QC
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Feb-26-09 02:59 PM
Response to Original message |
24. Bloated bureaucracy is a big part of the problem. |
|
At the community college where I teach, we have about 400 full-time employees, and fewer than a hundred of those teach.
|
DU
AdBot (1000+ posts) |
Thu Apr 25th 2024, 05:26 AM
Response to Original message |