Marxism is...

[Taverner]

[tekisui]

1. Marx's diagnosis of the problems were and still are spot on.

His prescription for correction has been proven flawed in real world attempts. He is absolutely correct, though, in describing most conflicts as class struggles.

The implementation of solutions to the class struggles must be updated and corrected.

[Captain Hilts]

2. Actually Trotsky anticipated the tyranny that was Soviet socialism.

The Revolution Betrayed is an amazing read.

[Iggo]

21. That's howcome he got dead, huh.

[Warren DeMontague]

39. "Mr. Stalin, in Mexico City, with the ice pick."

I win!

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

5. Ding ding ding!

Brilliant and still accurate analysis and diagnosis. Not so good a prescription.

[TahitiNut]

6. Exactly what I was about to say.

His analysis of the problems of capitalism are dead nuts on, while his suggested alternative is realistically flawed.

[paulsby]

23. *if*

his diagnosis of the problems was correct, then his prescription for correction would have worked.

the reason WHY it didn't work was because the underlying assumptions were wrong.

[TheCoxwain]

25. it because .. implementing it is a pie in the sky ..

it creates alternate power center that as corruptible as any other ....

once that happens you are staring down the barrel.... as there is no way to change it unlike a democracy

[DireStrike]

35. Democracy has nothing to do with it -nt-

[Taverner]

32. His numbers are all wrong though

Especially in Das Kapital - he knows a great deal about Sociology, next to nothing about real economics

[tekisui]

33. Nope.

He was right in his diagnosis. Class struggles are the cause of instability. The have-nots and he have-too-much. But, he approached the solution wrongly. It is not a black and white, he was entirely right or he was entirely wrong.

[anonymous171]

3. Good theory, has some mistakes. Kind of like Free Market Economics. nt

[Warpy]

4. Marx's descriptions were dead on

and they've held up for over 100 years.

It's his prescription for change that's problematic.

[Greyhound]

7. Another vote for Groucho!

:kick:

[Occam Bandage]

8. *honk honk*

[SidneyCarton]

9. Marxism is...

A groundbreaking system of theory for the analysis and critique of the industrialized capitalist world. It has provided exceptional insight into the exploitation, mobilization and identification of the Proletariat, their culture, ideals and asperations. It has also provided a necessary critique for the hypocrisies inherent in Liberal, Bourgeoisie culture.

That said, it's implementation as a system of government has been spotty. In certain societies, (Scandanavia, Germany, France) Socialism on Marxist principles has produced a system with a high quality of life, and strong respect for democratic principles. In other parts of the world it has produced atrocity and disaster. In order for the Swedish/West European model to work, it is arguable that there needs to be a strong foundation of liberal democracy in the nation to begin with.

[Taverner]

10. Yep, what he said

:thumbsup:

[IntravenousDemilo]

27. Yes, Marx never really anticipated that socialism would be implemented in places like Russia.

And certainly not China. He thought it would take root in places with a history of liberal democracy. Strange, then, that the two most notable cited examples of socialist states are China and the USSR, where a frankly bastardized form of socialism was imposed on cultures that were newly liberated from serfdom and which had experienced nothing but dictatorship. So socialism was tarred with the authoritarian brush, so much that now the only thing right-wingers can see in this political system, apparently, is authoritarianism.

[leftstreet]

34. 1930s USA would have been a good place to start

At least it was a period bubbling with class awareness and conflict.

But along came FDR and bam! all that class stuff and all those Leftists started to disappear.

[laststeamtrain]

11. Other. Marxism is...

...way, way too complex for most people to understand because it takes more words than fit on a bumper sticker to describe it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. ...Totally Fucking Stupid.

[wuushew]

14. Why dis it? capitalism is a dead end

It is a system that will inevitably destroy itself.

You aren't against democratic socialism are you?

[Taverner]

17. Yep - inflation kills us all

And that's how Capitalism dies

Granted, I think Marx was wearing rose colored glasses - saying man would evolve into a stateless society. I'd like that to be the case, I really would, but ain't going to happen.

[Taverner]

16. Every inch of it? Or just recent applications?

You do know that John Maynard Keynes used Marxist theory in much of his theories.

And that man saved Capitalism

Marx has problems, yes, Labor Theory Value comes to mind as one of Marx's biggest errors. Yeah, there will always be a demand for buggy whips, so we should pay buggy whip makers as much as brain surgeons :eyes:

A lot of applied Marxism requires society to freeze, without new technologies. We all know how well that works.

But, in terms of defining class struggle, he was years ahead. And in that arena, he was a genius.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

18. He Was An Overzealous Jackass; Not A Genius.

[Taverner]

20. Overzealous, yes

Jackass, never met him

Genius, well look at any econ theory before Marx and then after - talk to any Economist, even Milton Friedman, and they will at least admit he was years ahead of his time

Are you mistaking Marxist-Leninism or Marxist-Maoism for Marxism?

[skypilot]

29. I'm not convinced that he wasn't a jackass.

When I first read The Communist Manifesto years ago, I had an edition that mentioned in its introduction that Marx once referred to a rival named Ferdinand Lasalle as a "dirty Jew of Negro blood". That always shocked me. I recently came across a book at the library where I work entitled "Karl Marx:Racist" by Nathaniel Weyl. It contains excerpts from correspondences between Marx and Engels in which they disparage blacks and even Jews (despite the fact that Marx was Jewish). The letters are not pretty.

[Taverner]

30. Karl Marx WAS a self-hating Jew

This is documented - but I always thought Jackassery had to be assessed in person.

BUT, his theories are still very correct

Nietzsche was a great philosopher, but was anti-Semitic (granted, only in his last days - and one could attribute this to senility)

[Alamuti Lotus]

38. Nietzsche as anti-Semitic?!

'only in his last days' when he was writing letters to his friend Overbeck, wanting to have them all shot? Or stated in The Antichrist, "An anti-Semite is certainly not made more decent by the fact that he lies on principle. . . ."

[laststeamtrain]

24. Dude, like totally.

Marx was all like stupid & stuff.

[geek tragedy]

13. A valid analytical tool, but worthless in terms of governance.

It raises great questions, and provides horrid answers.

[Posteritatis]

36. Well said! (nt)

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. More correct than it is incorrect

Severely misunderstood, in any case.

[bridgit]

19. Other: Not on my plate

[leftstreet]

22. If we're voting based on the pics, Trots looks the most like Johnny Depp

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. A helluva a lot better than capitalism, but still relies bosses.

Marx should have never had Bakunin thrown out of the 1st International.

[Odin2005]

28. Marx had many good ideas but his Hegelianism totally turned the rest to crap.

The most BS part of all being his historical determinism.

[Taverner]

31. That, and his Dialectical Materialism

Granted, without Dialectical Materialism, we would have no "People's History"

So I guess it wasn't ALL bad

[Warren DeMontague]

37. I'm just wondering how Trotsky got those glasses to stay on his face.

Neat trick, dat.

[cherokeeprogressive]

40. Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

I FUCKING LOVE Marxisms! Groucho was one of the funniest motherfuckers to ever crap in a toilet.

Oh, wait. MarxISM? Fuck. Never mind.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

41. Marx got the diagnosis exactly right, but TR and FDR

prescribed the right cure: nail the "malefactors of great wealth" and greedy, predatory capitalists. Preferably to the wall or a very stout tree.

[McCamy Taylor]

42. There is nothing wrong with Marxism. It is the only sensible way to study history.

People do not realize that almost all social science is guided by Marxist principle nowadays. That is because they do not know what Marxism is. Anthropology, archeology, literary studies---it has influenced so many academic fields that it is practically ubiquitous.

[Posteritatis]

43. "Influenced" != "only sensible way"

Anyone talking about the One True Way to study history clearly hasn't done much of it himself.