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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 02:57 PM
Original message
US Department of State Traveller Alert for MEXICO
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_3028.html

Travel Alert

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Bureau of Consular Affairs
This information is current as of today, Thu Feb 26 2009 11:54:34 GMT-0800 (PST).

Mexico

February 20, 2009

This Travel Alert updates security information for U.S. citizens traveling and living in Mexico. It supersedes the Travel Alert for Mexico dated October 15, 2008, and expires on August 20, 2009.

While millions of U.S. citizens safely visit Mexico each year (including thousands who cross the land border every day for study, tourism or business), violence in the country has increased recently. It is imperative that travelers understand the risks of travel to Mexico, how best to avoid dangerous situations, and whom to contact if one becomes a crime victim. Common-sense precautions such as visiting only legitimate business and tourist areas during daylight hours, and avoiding areas where prostitution and drug dealing might occur, can help ensure that travel to Mexico is safe and enjoyable.

Crime and Violence Throughout Mexico

The greatest increase in violence has occurred near the U.S. border. However, U.S. citizens traveling throughout Mexico should exercise caution in unfamiliar areas and be aware of their surroundings at all times. Mexican and foreign bystanders have been injured or killed in violent attacks in cities across the country, demonstrating the heightened risk of violence in public places. In recent years, dozens of U.S. citizens have been kidnapped across Mexico. Many of these cases remain unresolved. U.S. citizens who believe they are being targeted for kidnapping or other crimes should notify Mexican officials and the nearest American consulate or the Embassy as soon as possible, and should consider returning to the United States.

U.S. citizens should make every attempt to travel on main roads during daylight hours, particularly the toll ("cuota") roads, which generally are more secure. Occasionally, the U.S. Embassy and consulates advise their employees as well as private U.S. citizens to avoid certain areas, abstain from driving on certain roads because of dangerous conditions or criminal activity, or recommend driving during daylight hours only. When warranted, U.S. government employees are restricted from traveling to or within parts of Mexico without prior approval from their supervisors. When this happens, the Embassy or the affected consulate will alert the local U.S. citizen Warden network and post the information on their respective websites, indicating the nature of the concern and the expected time period for which the restriction will remain in place. U.S. citizen visitors are encouraged to stay in the well-known tourist areas of the cities. Travelers should leave their itinerary with a friend or family member not traveling with them, avoid traveling alone, and should check with their cellular provider prior to departure to confirm that their cell phone is capable of roaming on GSM or 3G international networks. Do not display expensive-looking jewelry, large amounts of money, or other valuable items.

Violence Along the U.S. - Mexico Border

Mexican drug cartels are engaged in an increasingly violent conflict - both among themselves and with Mexican security services - for control of narcotics trafficking routes along the U.S.-Mexico border. In order to combat violence, the government of Mexico has deployed troops in various parts of the country. U.S. citizens should cooperate fully with official checkpoints when traveling on Mexican highways.

Some recent Mexican army and police confrontations with drug cartels have resembled small-unit combat, with cartels employing automatic weapons and grenades. Large firefights have taken place in many towns and cities across Mexico but most recently in northern Mexico, including Tijuana, Chihuahua City and Ciudad Juarez. During some of these incidents, U.S. citizens have been trapped and temporarily prevented from leaving the area. The U.S. Mission in Mexico currently restricts non-essential travel to the state of Durango and all parts of the state of Coahuila south of Mexican Highways 25 and 22 and the Alamos River for U.S. government employees assigned to Mexico. This restriction was implemented in light of the recent increase in assaults, murders, and kidnappings in those two states. The situation in northern Mexico remains fluid; the location and timing of future armed engagements cannot be predicted.

A number of areas along the border are experiencing rapid growth in the rates of many types of crime. Robberies, homicides, petty thefts, and carjackings have all increased over the last year across Mexico generally, with notable spikes in Tijuana and northern Baja California. Ciudad Juarez, Tijuana and Nogales are among the cities which have recently experienced public shootouts during daylight hours in shopping centers and other public venues. Criminals have followed and harassed U.S. citizens traveling in their vehicles in border areas including Nuevo Laredo, Matamoros, and Tijuana.

The situation in Ciudad Juarez is of special concern. Mexican authorities report that more than 1,800 people have been killed in the city since January 2008. Additionally, this city of 1.6 million people experienced more than 17,000 car thefts and 1,650 carjackings in 2008. U.S. citizens should pay close attention to their surroundings while traveling in Ciudad Juarez, avoid isolated locations during late night and early morning hours, and remain alert to news reports. A recent series of muggings near the U.S. Consulate General in Ciudad Juarez targeted applicants for U.S. visas. Visa and other service seekers visiting the Consulate are encouraged to make arrangements to pay for those services using a non-cash method.

U.S. citizens are urged to be alert to safety and security concerns when visiting the border region. Criminals are armed with a wide array of sophisticated weapons. In some cases, assailants have worn full or partial police or military uniforms and have used vehicles that resemble police vehicles. While most crime victims are Mexican citizens, the uncertain security situation poses serious risks for U.S. citizens as well. U.S. citizen victims of crime in Mexico are urged to contact the consular section of the nearest U.S. consulate or Embassy for advice and assistance. Contact information is provided at the end of this message.

Demonstrations and Large Public Gatherings

Demonstrations occur frequently throughout Mexico and usually are peaceful. However, even demonstrations intended to be peaceful can turn confrontational and escalate to violence unexpectedly. Violent demonstrations have resulted in deaths, including that of an American citizen in Oaxaca in 2006. In 2008, a Mexican Independence Day celebration was the target of a violent attack. During demonstrations or law enforcement operations, U.S. citizens are advised to remain in their homes or hotels, avoid large crowds, and avoid the downtown and surrounding areas. Since the timing and routes of scheduled marches and demonstrations are always subject to change, U.S. citizens should monitor local media sources for new developments and exercise extreme caution while within the vicinity of protests. The Mexican Constitution prohibits political activities by foreigners, and such actions may result in detention and/or deportation. U.S. citizens are therefore advised to avoid participating in demonstrations or other activities that might be deemed political by Mexican authorities. As is always the case in any large gathering, U.S. citizens should remain alert to their surroundings.

Further Information

For more detailed information on staying safe in Mexico, please see the Mexico Country Specific Information at: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_970.html. Information on security and travel to popular tourist destinations is also provided in the publication: "Spring Break in Mexico- Know Before You Go!!" at http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/spring_break_mexico/spring_break_mexico_2812.html For the latest security information, U.S. citizens traveling abroad should regularly monitor the Department's internet web site at http://travel.state.gov where the current Worldwide Caution, Travel Warnings, and Travel Alerts can be found. Up-to-date information on security can also be obtained by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll free in the United States and canada, or, for callers from Mexico, a regular toll line at 001-202-501-4444. These numbers are available from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Monday through Friday (except U.S. federal holidays). American citizens traveling or residing overseas are encouraged to register with the appropriate U.S. Embassy or Consulate on the State Department's travel registration website at https://travelregistration.state.gov/.

For any emergencies involving U.S. citizens in Mexico, please contact the closest U.S. Embassy or Consulate. The U.S. Embassy is located in Mexico City at Paseo de la Reforma 305, Colonia Cuauhtemoc, telephone from the United States: 011-52-55-5080-2000; telephone within Mexico City: 5080-2000; telephone long distance within Mexico 01-55-5080-2000. You may also contact the Embassy by e-mail at: ccs@usembassy.net.mx. The Embassy's internet address is http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/.

Consulates:

Ciudad Juarez: Paseo de la Victoria 3650, tel. (52)(656) 227-3000. http://ciudadjuarez.usconsulate.gov.
Guadalajara: Progreso 175, telephone (52)(333) 268-2100. http://guadalajara.usconsulate.gov/.
Hermosillo: Avenida Monterrey 141, telephone (52)(662) 289-3500. http://hermosillo.usconsulate.gov.
Matamoros: Avenida Primera 2002, telephone (52)(868) 812-4402. http://matamoros.usconsulate.gov.
Merida: Calle 60 no. 338 k, telephone (52)(999) 942-5700. http://merida.usconsulate.gov.
Monterrey: Avenida Constitucion 411 Poniente, telephone (52)(818) 047-3100. http://monterrey.usconsulate.gov.
Nogales: Calle San Jose, Nogales, Sonora, telephone (52)(631) 311-8150. http://nogales.usconsulate.gov.
Nuevo Laredo: Calle Allende 3330, col. Jardin, telephone (52)(867) 714-0512. http://nuevolaredo.usconsulate.gov/.
Tijuana: Tapachula 96, telephone (52)(664) 622-7400. http://tijuana.usconsulate.gov/service.html.

Consular Agencies:

Acapulco: Hotel Continental Emporio, Costera Miguel Aleman 121 - local 14, telephone (52)(744) 484-0300 or (52)(744) 469-0556.
Cabo San Lucas: Blvd. Marina local c-4, Plaza Nautica, col. Centro, telephone (52)(624) 143-3566.
Cancún: Plaza Caracol two, second level, no. 320-323, Boulevard Kukulcan, km. 8.5, Zona Hotelera, telephone (52)(998) 883-0272.
Ciudad Acuña: Ocampo # 305, col. Centro, telephone (52)(877) 772-8661
Cozumel: Plaza Villa Mar en el Centro, Plaza Principal, (Parque Juárez between Melgar and 5th ave.) 2nd floor, locales #8 and 9, telephone (52)(987) 872-4574.
Ixtapa/Zihuatanejo: Hotel Fontan, Blvd. Ixtapa, telephone (52)(755) 553-2100.
Mazatlán: Hotel Playa Mazatlán, Playa Gaviotas #202, Zona Dorada, telephone (52)(669) 916-5889.
Oaxaca: Macedonio Alcalá no. 407, interior 20, telephone (52)(951) 514-3054 (52)(951) 516-2853.
Piedras Negras: Abasolo #211, Zona Centro, Piedras Negras, Coah., Tel. (878) 782-5586.
Playa del Carmen: "The Palapa," Calle 1 Sur, between Avenida 15 and Avenida 20, telephone (52)(984) 873-0303.
Puerto Vallarta: Paradise Plaza, Paseo de los Cocoteros #1, Local #4, Interior #17, Nuevo Vallarta, Nayarit, telephone (52)(322) 222-0069.
Reynosa: Calle Monterrey #390, Esq. Sinaloa, Colonia Rodríguez, telephone: (52)(899) 923 - 9331
San Luis Potosí: Edificio "Las Terrazas", Avenida Venustiano Carranza 2076-41, Col. Polanco, telephone: (52)(444) 811-7802/7803.
San Miguel de Allende: Dr. Hernandez Macias #72, telephone (52)(415) 152-2357 or (52)(415) 152-0068.

MODS this is public information

DU, this is no game and why this war is getting very hot

Keep a low profile

You are a tourist, so mostly a neutral target, but kidnappings are on the way up, way, way up

If I had kids, no spring break in Mexico

Oh and to those who are still laughing, this is partly what it means to have an almost failed state along the southern border...
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. You're not joking... we're not even going to Padre this summer
decided Colorado would be a safer bet. No beach, but they have a great zoo in Colorado Springs & it's far away from the border.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I have family in Mexico City
means when I go visit, I keep a VERY LOW PROFILE

Thankfully it is not the border

But last night we still had people laughing about this.


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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. They are ill-informed. And soon this country is going to look a lot
more like Mexico if we don't get the economy under control.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. It already does, like Mexico did when I worked in EMS in Tijuana fifteen years ago
IT is no joke
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. arent there a lot of american retirees in Mexico?
wonder how they are faring.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Mostly they are fine, they live in places like Guadalajara
not that close to the front lines

Some in Mexico city as well

A few along the coasts, but I could count the ones who live close to the real hot front lines... that said, many folks work in the states and live in border cities since it is cheaper
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NavyDavy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. I live near Juarez, in Las Cruces NM so we hear about the
violence everyday
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. My local news avoids it, and we are smack dab at the border
San Diego

Could tell stories of how irresponsible the local media is...
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I always learn more down here by reading the comments after
stories in our on-line Chronicle. Some are crack-pots, but many tell what they see and it's always more enlightening than the stale news stories. If you talk to your gardeners and/or housekeeping service personnel you find out much more.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Well I have a direct line... my EMS Partner, he still works down there
When he said that ambulances were no longer allowed free rein into scenes I knew... shit has now officially hit the fan

You have no clue how many hot scenes I went to before even the cops... and some of them were drug related... could tell stories... could tell stories indeed

Lets just say Traffic was true to life (95% that is) I know what the 5% was changed and why.


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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. One of the SD stations is actually licensed to Tijuana
and they're not reporting it?!
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. You kid me? They are the worst offenders. They stay out of it
even in a worst way than the other stations

The will to live is a strong reason for that. Local reporters have been killed just for even hinting at the horrors (In tijuana that is)

I'd be far from surprised if they finally move operations north before long.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. I read Mexican papers at the Newseum
and while I know their news is almost as controlled as ours is, the truth of what's going on still manages to seep through now and then.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Actually their news are not as controlled
they used to be... but Fox liberalized what the media could and should cover

Now Calderon wants to bring back some of that, ahem control, but putting the paste in the tube is proving difficult

Now the murders of media people, by the cartels, has proven more effective than anything Calderon has tried so far
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thank you my dear, for a most important article on conditions in Mexico.
I live in a border town and used to go to Mexico for shopping and dining - NO MAS -. My dentist is in Algodones, BC and I hesitate to cross the border any more.

The AZ AG Terry Goddard tells me that most of the weapons used by the cartels are coming from US suppliers. I am hoping that DU posters and readers will read your article and understand the US AG's attempted ban on assault weapons is vital to stem the violence in Mexico. This is just a part of the solution.

I see the terrorists we should fear are across the Southern border, a scant 15 miles from my house. The violence has already come to my home town.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. SOme of them are here already
as to the weapons ban, it is also directed at our internal threats...

I know... some folks here don't realize just how badly this has metastasized

We also need to legalize the shit, regulate it, and tax it
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Has Algodones gotten bad?
I was thinking of driving down one of these days. I need some new glasses.

However, there was a story in the local paper here about a busload of senior citizens who went down the other day for the usual dentist, medication and liquor run. Apparently, the US border guards hassled them mercilessly. They were detained at the crossing for three and a half hours.

I usually don't have any trouble crossing there, although one time I did have a hot-shot guard with a major chip on his shoulder who decided I needed a 20 minute lecture about what I could and couldn't bring back into the country. I had gone with a friend who was having dental surgery. All I had was some hot sauce and OTC drugs, but I got the lecture anyway.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. ANOTHER great thread!
This is scary shit, and you are doing us a great service by posting these articles.

K&R

Thank you and stay safe, sweetie...

:hug:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Just trying to bring some reality
there is more... State is slower than a slug to issue these warnings on allied countries.

So it tells me things are far worst than people think

Some inside knowledge of working with State... to evac US Citizens
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a la izquierda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
39. From the border area only?
Or the whole country?
Shee-it. I'm outta here next week anyway, but I miss my husband, so they could make me leave tomorrow if they wanted.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Read it, it covers the whole country, though it concentrates in the combat zones
Edited on Thu Feb-26-09 07:39 PM by nadinbrzezinski
aka the border

Reality is that 99% of tourist will not even see it

Then again there are the lucky duckies who either get caught in it or see it... last year when the bomb went off in Mexico City a tourist double decker was driving by, The Photo in the Excelsion was ahem amazing... shocked faces mostly
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a la izquierda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Yeah, I read that yesterday. Not shocked.
I was referring to the evacuation thing...I'm sick as a dog right now, so sorry I didn't clarify. I'm about done traveling here for awhile. I have to go to D.F. in July. I'm already dreading that trip.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I was a medic with the red cross in TJ, so mostly it was military personnel
we dealt with and the occasional civvie

From parts south if you call the consulate they MIGHT give you some aid

Reality is, don't hold my breath, having seen how many times distance records they broke NOT to respond.

Sad, I was talking to a European, they had the same problem, getting state to send consular affairs officials.

You have medical insurance? They may be able to do that. THough if you can just fly out, that's the best (and most affordable) choice
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. I love Mexico and have been considering a move there
far away from the border. This makes me incredibly sad for the people who are there now.

They deserve better than to risk losing their country over our stupid and futile war against drugs.

End it now. Please.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Personally I would not retire there RIGHT NOW
the violence is less far from the border, but the risk of kidnappings is way too real, even in small towns away from the "front Lines."

In fact, there are no front lines in this war, just hotter and colder zones.

As to the war on drugs, it needs to stop, not only for their sake, you are seeing the future of the US as well

MI3 is a real threat, so are the Arellanos, the Sinaloa Cartel, the Colima Cartel...

We are just in the way... to profits
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. The best thing they can do is declare defeat and legalize drugs
Seriously. During Prohibition, alcohol was legal in all other countries in the hemisphere. They had little problem with organized crime or violence. All that was confined to the country that stupidly tried to outlaw sin--the US.

Only when the mess gets shipped back within our borders will this country realize the damn preachers were wrong..again..and that outlawing sin only makes sin more popular.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. I know but the difference is that drugs are illegal in Mexico too
Fox tried, but was pressured to not do that
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. i love mexico too and would be living there if i hadnt got caught in this economy...oh well...nt
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Prices are dropping like a rock right now
and the peso is at an historic low.

It's just too bad about all the bad guys with too many guns and too few brains.
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. I live in Playas de Tijuana.
I was in San Diego yesterday and got home just after dark with hundreds of regular commuters.

While I have no doubt that the violence and crime are very real in certain areas, I really think the panic mode is being overdone.

Maybe my lifestyle makes the difference:
-I work at home via the internet on the afternoon/evening shift.

-I live modestly, get along well with my neighbors, and don't go out at night (let alone areas where prostitution/drug activity are prevalent).

-I don't own a car and either walk, take a city bus (which is actually quite entertaining) or commuter shuttle, or occasionally use a cab when I've been grocery shopping.

-I carry very little money with me between shopping trips; I use the local currency; and I always carry several 5-peso pieces in my pocket, so I can accommodate the occasional street beggar without taking my wallet out or risking a hostile reaction (though I've never actually seen one).

The bottom line is that I love it here and I do not feel frightened or threatened in any way. Ordinary caution and being very alert to one's surroundings are always wise, but fear is an unnecessary part of the environment.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. You also live in what is mostly a neutral zone
for the war.

That was the way it was in Mesa de Otay fifteen years ago... tell me exactly what happened once the first shootouts happened first at the Boulervard and then in the Mesa de Otay neighborhood? It is still mostly fairly safe, but not as safe

Also you get something else, access to playas is still a one way road, that last time I checked wasn't that wide. So a hot speed pursuit to get away from the army or the police is a little harder to do. Yep, the Rampa, coming out of the Via Rapida.

SInce you live in Playas you also are aware, I believe, that the SEMEFO ran out of physical space in the refrigeration units last year during the summer

Why do you think is that?

This is not panic mode. Back in the 1980s we had 100 murders a year... or so

How many this year?

Most were not drug related

How many are drug related today?

I know that when I travel to Mexico City I will keep a low profile... since I know the risk is real.

Way too much inside baseball I know.
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. I did leave out the limited access to Playas.
And I agree that it is probably a major reason life here is quiet.

I also have been to Mesa de Otay and decided some time ago I didn't care much for it, so I haven't been back in a couple of years; not that I have any reason to go there, anyway.

As for SEMEFO running out of refrigerator space, I believe its capacity was somewhat less than 100, which isn't all that much in a sprawling city with a population approaching 1.5 million, so I don't consider that a very big deal.

I also go into Centro on a regular basis and walk there without fear, enjoying the Mercado Hidalgo, the people, and the general color of the city.

Don't get me wrong; I know that the violence is real and that caution is needed. I especially agree that the ill-conceived "war on drugs" is a major cause of the situation. When my instincts tell me a certain person looks like bad news, I know how to act and avoid that person.

What I don't agree with is that the level of fear being broadcast in response to the travel advisory is justified outside of certain risky areas and behaviors.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Again you are sticking to the neutral zones
there is more.

My mom used to tell me, when I was working EMS.... it is dangerous hijta... when are you gonna stop doing that?

Of course I denied that... it couldn't really be that bad... really

When you are in the middle of the crap it always seems a little less dangerous than it really is

And SEMEFO running out of space wasn't insignificant. They have the space they have since they had 100 murders a year, plenty of fridge space for that

100 in a month is no longer unheard off.

And that is the bloody point, no pun
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Working EMS is a horse of a different color.
You don't get to choose where you want to go or when. You have to go where your help is needed, and that often involves crime-infested areas. I remember reading stories about emergency workers being attacked in certain parts of the U.S., too. The same risks apply for emergency workers any place on earth.

As for the body count, 100 a month is still an overall risk factor of about 0.0001% in a city this size -- concentrated in "non-neutral" areas and mostly at night, which reduces it even further for those who occupy the daylight and use prudence.

Again, for ordinary people, using ordinary caution and prudence, avoiding known hours and activities that would increase their risk, I really don't think fear is a necessary (or wise) part of the landscape, and there are still many, many more good people than bad.

And on that note, I have to get to work. :hi:

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. One hundred murders a month insignificant... in what fucking planet?
my god... never mind... denial is not just a river in egypt

MOST CITIES of the same size, san diego for example, just across the border, don't see that rate

As to a horse of a different feather, you are right, we got to see the beginnings of this crap

I have friends in the US Side of the border that are starting to tell stories that are eerily similar to what I saw back then

What is the name for that? Oh yes, metastasize






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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. DO NOT put words in my mouth.
At no time did I use the word "insignificant," nor did I in any way imply that any death is insignificant.

You are distorting what I said.

I am talking about overall risk factors and the means to reduce them, and I am opposing the propagation of fear.

That is all.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. And I am telling you that this is not laughing matter
what I said above applies, when you live in the middle of it, it is harder to see the risks

This is not fear, Mexico IS GOING DOWN THE PATH OF A FAILED STATE by any rational definition of the term

You are ALSO DIMINISHING THE RISKS by making fun of 100 murders in a month

The rate wasn't there ten years ago, not even FIVE years ago

Nor are we expecting the spikes to go down any time soon

Here you go, some sources

http://m3report.wordpress.com/2009/02/03/murder-rate-in-tijuana-for-january-exceeds-2008-statistics-by-130/

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2008/aug/06/greetings-from-tijuana/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28443507/

Oh and for comparison here you go, Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Mexico

Sorry if I have little patience for things that try to diminish a real problem

And yes Denial is not only a river in egypt... and this is not panic speaking, but reality... things are going down a very dangerous path..
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. The Chron just put up an article about spring break -
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6282825.html

Colleges warn spring breakers about travel in Mexico:

PHOENIX — The U.S. State Department and universities around the country are warning college students headed for Mexico for some spring-break partying of a surge in drug-related murder and mayhem south of the border.

“We want to make sure they are as well-informed as possible,” said Patrick Day, vice chancellor for student affairs at the University of Massachusetts at Boston. “It’s important to us that they are safe, that we provide them with as much information as we can so that they can be safe.”

More than 100,000 high school- and college-age Americans travel to Mexican resort areas during spring break each year. Much of the drug violence is happening in border towns, and tourists have generally not been targeted, though there have been killings in the big spring-break resorts of Acapulco and Cancun, well away from the border. (much more at the link above)
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. I would worry about kids on spring break.
They often behave very stupidly and make themselves targets.

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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
18. How bad must things get before people *seriously* talk about legalization?
Edited on Thu Feb-26-09 03:57 PM by davepc
When will we learn the lessons of prohibition? When?



Crime rate 1910-1945
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
21. It won't be long before Canada issues this same release, but
crosses out "Mexico" and replaces it with "United States."
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Ten years at most, if things continue to trend the way they are
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. I was thinking 10 months
The veneer of civilization in the US is very very thin. I've been reading the comments sections on newspaper sites in various places. The hate and viciousness of some of those commenters is frightening. I wish newspapers hadn't done that. They have turned into print versions of AM hate radio. It won't take much of a downturn to turn that hate into action -- at all the groups that the right has spent a lot of time scapegoating: Mexicans, gays, and, if all else fails, blacks.

And things are getting tough. My other half manages a small store. In the past, when someone came in off the street looking for work, he'd have them fill out an application and he'd keep it on file. Now, he says he gets three or four people a day and he no longer has them fill out an application. It's just a waste of time on both parts and a waste of paper. He isn't hiring, since sales are down, and, at any rate, his file drawer is already full of applications. He's good for the next year. The other day, he needed a part timers and called a guy who had applied six months ago. The guy still hadn't found work.

This is going to start to get nasty. Many of his employees are Mexican, but all are second or third generation and all are legal. However, the morons won't make that important distinction, when they start bashing.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Riots, you will see that fairly soon
next 24 months, but this kind of violence (relating only to the drug cartels, not the rest) will take ten years
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-09 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
45. Kick for night crew
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-27-09 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
46. Report: Mexican drug violence threatens U.S. security
New article this afternoon:

By MATTHEW LEE Associated Press
Feb. 27, 2009, 2:01PM

WASHINGTON — Spiraling drug violence in Mexico, narcotics trafficking elsewhere in Latin America and a thriving opium trade in Afghanistan pose significant national security threats to the United States, the Obama administration said today.

In its annual survey of global counter-narcotics efforts, the State Department painted a grim picture of the situation in Mexico, where government attempts to fight traffickers are hindered by rampant corruption. The battle between authorities and drug cartels killed more than 6,000 people last year and more than 1,000 so far in 2009.

Mexico is a main source for many illegal drugs entering the United States, including as much as 90 percent of the cocaine and most of the heroin, marijuana and methamphetine consumed in America. The report praised Mexican President Felipe Calderon for “courageous” and “unprecedented” steps to combat drug trade, but noted corruption still plagues the effort.

At the same time, it said that Calderon’s successes may be responsible for fueling the surge in violence as drug lords battle each other for control and take on Mexican security forces.

“They are confronting each other and the result is unfortunately a significant increase in violence,” said David Johnson, the assistant secretary of state for international narcotics and law enforcement. “This is a serious challenge for both the government of Mexico and the United States.”

Here is the link for the entire article: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6284774.html
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