And **another** fucking lie that needs to get knocked down .....

[Stinky The Clown]

... is the notion that high taxes for high income earners somehow hurts small business owners.

That is just so much bullshit.

If a small business owner is being taxed at the very highest individual tax rate that's because he is making a shitload of money. He may be a small business, but he is NO victim of the tax code. Every dollar he spends, including those to PAY WAGES to employees, is not counted as his income.

This lie is clever. It conflates "income" with "profit".

It has one intent and one only .... to scare people into thinking taxes on the rich hurt little people ("small" business).

Also, let's not forget what a small business is. You'll find some of it is pretty big.

From sba dot gov we get this summary by category.

Summary of Size Standards by Industry

To qualify as a small business concern for most SBA programs, small business size standards define the maximum size that a firm, including all of its affiliates, may be. A size standard is usually stated in number of employees or average annual receipts. SBA has established two widely used size standards—500 employees for most manufacturing and mining industries, and $7 million in average annual receipts for most nonmanufacturing industries. While there are many exceptions, these are the primary size standards by industry. (For more complete information on size standards, see SBA’s Small Business Size Regulations (13 CFR §121) or the Table of Small Business Size Standards.

Construction

* General building and heavy construction contractors: $33.5 million
* Special trade construction contractors: $14 million
* Land subdivision: $7 million
* Dredging: $20 million


Manufacturing

* About 75 percent of the manufacturing industries: 500 employees
* A small number of industries: 1,500 employees
* The balance: either 750 or 1,000 employees


Mining

* All mining industries, except mining services: 500 employees


Retail Trade

* Most retail trade industries: $7 million
* A few (such as grocery stores, department stores, motor vehicle dealers and electrical appliance dealers), have higher size standards, but none above $35.5 million.


Services

* Most common: $7 million
* Computer programming, data processing and systems design: $25 million
* Engineering and architectural services and a few other industries have different size standards.
* The highest annual-receipts size standard in any service industry: $35.5 million
* Research and development and environmental remediation services: the only service industries with size standards stated in number of employees

http://www.sba.gov/contractingopportunities/officials/size/SUMM_SIZE_STANDARDS_INDUSTRY.html

[SoCalDem]

1. "Small business" needs a BIG revamping..

When people hear small business, most think of the local Donut shop, or the local tire store, or the clothing boutique..

Micro companies .....1-5 employees (not counting owners or owners' family-members)

Mini companies....... 6-20 employees (same parameters)

Small companies.....21-50 employees

Mid-sized companies...51-150 employees

Large companies.........151-500 employees

Major companies..........501-1500 employees

Mega companies........1501- up employees

That's how I think they should break down, and what passes for small business perks NOW, should only apply to companies that are mid-szed or smaller..

[Stinky The Clown]

8. Good categories!

Having been a competitor in this market for most of my working life, I would limit it to (your) "Small" and lower.

I would also place a cap on owner's income. If a micro or mini owner makes a profit (his/her personal income) in excess of $250K, they do not get to keep their small business status, but that would also be an annual check-in. So if you have a bang-up year, you have to sit out the perks for the next year and the next, but can come back in if your personal income falls. Business reinvestment (including business-owned CDs/savings accounts) would be exempt. While that is usually hit as owner profit, it could be exempt for the purpose of reclassification as this is what the intent is .... to allow business to grow and prosper.

[NMDemDist2]

2. as you and I both know, it's the FICA crap that kills self employed ppl

I paid 40cents of every net profit dollar back to the IRS because I had to match my SS and disability payments

those quarterly checks HURT sometimes.

I think the self employment taxes need revamping, but then I only had 6-7 employees in a retail environment

:hi:

[Stinky The Clown]

5. I know what you mean

Sparkly's little company is just her. I have two partners and we have one part time employee. Yeah, the quarterlies are killers.

Sparkly calls herself a Misfortune 1/500th. :)

[NMDemDist2]

6. i tell ya d00d, if every taxpayer had to write those quarterly checks, we'd see

tax revision in a hurry!!! :evilgrin:

[Cerridwen]

10. Unfortunately, W2 earners have their "quarterlies" withheld from

their paychecks in "easily digestible" bites. Very few sit down to think what they actually pay in each quarter. If they did or if it were withheld in quarterly chunks rather than bits (relatively speaking), it might be a wakeup call that US tax code is skewed in the wrong direction.

[spanone]

3. boner is a liar....he spreads this manure and the media repeats it

[Still Sensible]

4. There needs to be some organization of thought to knock

this down. Perhaps from our new Commerce Secretary. You are right it is bullshit.

The republicans are desperately trying to find ANY angle that can give them political traction. They are trying out one after another. Up until now, they have not had much success, except for a little recently with the "why should taxpayers bail out irresponsible mortgage holders" meme. That one, by the way, is easily refutable, but even then some people are so stuck on the idea of the basic statement they refuse to listen to the explanation. But that's for other threads.

This meme, however, has the potential to be the one they get real traction with because on its face it sounds logical.

It is perfect grist for their sound bite mill--a simple position that seems black and white... and one that people generally won't bother to get the rest of the story.

[Cerridwen]

7. Yep, mmm, hmmm, I agree.

That's all I got. You and SoCalDem pretty well covered it.

I'm trying to remember some returns we did a couple years back in which some deductions (and what deductions they were?) that were not applicable to these small sole-props or fewer than 5 employee small businesses. The reason the deductions didn't apply was because their gross sales didn't meet some 100s of thousands (?) of dollars gross revenue "threshold." It was pretty obvious those "small business" deductions had little to do with the "mom and pop" shops many of us think of when we hear "small business."

The US tax code needs some serious cleaning; haz-mat style.

[LSparkle]

9. Olbermann also pointed out that most "small businesses" are still incorporated

He mentioned that if you're MAKING (in profit) over $250K per year
and you're NOT incorporated (still filing as an individual and not
getting the corporate tax breaks), then you need to get a new
tax firm ...

[Stinky The Clown]

11. Hahahaha ......

.... there's that, too.

But keep in mind ...... the meme is being propelled by repubicans.

:)

[rucky]

12. If only Obama had said that to Joe the Weasel