So did Obama reverse his position on “Out-Sourced Jobs”

[FreakinDJ]

I watched part of his Town Hall meeting and the question was asked “What was President Obama going to do about all the companies Out-Sourcing Jobs overseas?

What I heard I couldn’t believe came out of his mouth – the same old line Clinton used!

“Lets face it folks those jobs are gone and they are not coming back”

He went on to say “Green Jobs the New Technology of tomorrow………blaw blaw blaw – we’ve all heard that line of shit before.

Fact is Clinton made the same speech before – and where have all those IT jobs gone……. India and China

Folks we can not continue to out source our jobs and industries and expect to come out of this Depression

Mr Obama - you need to make good on this issue

[Deja Q]

1. Some are gone, that's reality. How many more need to go?

Aren't there enough well paying jobs for everyone?

If we're going to globalize, why not make the cost of living match the wages provided? Another DUer put up a post saying that a person who lost her job in the US managed to get a similar one in India and is still living a very decent life -- so it's not about H1B slavery...

[FreakinDJ]

6. Free Trade is only Free if your OUTSIDE the USA

India and China impose 20 - 40% tariffs on USA made goods

It was a scam for Big Corps when it started and given the latest trade numbers it still is. None of provide reason for the USA to be hemorrhaging jobs at an alarming rate

[Laelth]

12. We can make most of them come back. They are not gone forever.

Tax Citibank heavily for every call made into the United States from a call center in India to a Citibank customer living in the United States. That job will come back in a heartbeat. And there are many other ways to make this happen. That was just the first one I thought of.

I suspect the President is being a little disingenuous about this. There may be a good reason he has decided not to try to make those jobs come back, but it was a conscious decision.

Now, some jobs we sent to Mexico would be harder to bring back because of NAFTA. We'd have to break the treaty, but we could do it if we really wanted to.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Kdillard]

13. Wouldn't they just try to pass it on the the customer?

[Laelth]

14. They might.

Then nobody would use their cards. Can you imagine being charged an extra $150 for every time you had to deal with the call center? It would be much cheaper to just bring the job back, and that's exactly what we need to do ... make it cheaper for the company to just bring the job back.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Deja Q]

48. They would.

Before the tax on ciggies kicks in on Wednesday, it's been reported the basic price of ciggies have already gone up to compensate.

Big business has a tendency to never do what everyone else has to do: Take hits. As a result, the costs ARE moved along to the consumers. One way or the other.

Nice idea, adding tariffs. Seems a logical approach -- that way jobs remain on both sides of the ocean and the incentive to break the global economy is lessened.

Oh well.

[BobRossi]

2. Revoke all H1-B visas too.

There are plenty of Americans to fill those jobs, and they will do a better job.

[wroberts189]

34. I'll second that. Shutdown that whole program. nt

[Deja Q]

47. Let's do it fairly; those deserving of the jobs...

And they're "not from any country that isn't America" either, because as we all know the H1Bs come from everywhere.

Let's work with capability, not being sleazy and doing it just on the cheap.

Of course, if anyone accuses me of being a racist, maybe I'll start to oblige because I'm tired of dealing with those TROLLS who want to make it a racial issue. (I wouldn't; they damn themselves with their own bleating and it's not an issue worth trivializing either.)

[Skittles]

3. yes he did

he's not going to do a damn thing about it so you can continue to watch the economy slide, slide, slide

[OhioChick]

49. Yep....you got it. n/t

[Kdillard]

4. I believe he is correct when he says that because those jobs are not coming back

however I am watching to see if he keeps his promise about cutting tax breaks for those companies that do it in the future which the question was not about. It is something to keep an eye on.

[FreakinDJ]

8. Biggest problem is our manufacturing base

All that is left is work that is too technical or to precise to be outsourced.

The biggest problem is due to all the Aluminum, Iron, and Steel is produced in China Korea, or India now, and they are manipulating prices of raw material to further reduce American Manufactures ability to compete.

If Obama had smarts he would encompass his “Green Technology” to include “Cleaner Processes” for existing industries such as the manufacture of Iron, Steel, and Aluminum.

But then again as I said “If he had smarts” and right now it appears he is being led by the nose by some “Has been Clinton staffers”

[MercutioATC]

15. Actually, the right tax incentives could bring them back.

The service jobs would be very easy to bring back to the U.S.

The manual labor outsourcing would be more difficult, but it could be made attractive.

[wroberts189]

39. 100% correct ...I think i will stand over in your corner. nt

[MercutioATC]

41. Hope you brought your body armor....this corner seems to get a lot of "friendly fire"

:hi:

[wroberts189]

43. I am trying my best to keep it friendly.. but yes I have a vest...

Just look at what he said then and what he is saying now. That's all I am asking... and why is it so many other people think the same thing?

I still support Obama but it very well appears he is getting bad advice.

This all falls under his top priority .."fixing the economy" how do you do that without jobs and people who have them spending money?

He needs to be bolder and do what you said as well as H1B reform. He needs to bring all those jobs back. Instead he says (paraphrased) "We are going to create new green jobs that cannot be outsourced"

Like many ..I said WTF???? What jobs? Who is going to make them? What industries? We got tent cities popping up all across the USA ..we need those jobs back NOW.

These global trade deals were such a bad idea... people saw this coming ..even crazy old Ross Perot who does not seem so crazy anymore.

[BlooInBloo]

5. (facepalm)

[wroberts189]

35. Yep thats how I felt too if I understand you correctly.

It was the first time I found a direct reversal of his promises.


One can only hope he goes back to that old self.

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. Maybe you should look closer into the Clinton Administration to

see how he allowed these relationships to cloud his judgment. You might want to start with George Mitchell's Law Office. I mean, if Obama is being manipulated by the same people, it shouldn't be difficult to see the patterns.

[Mari333]

9. yep. nt

[FreakinDJ]

11. Its already very evident

Obama is being led by the nose by some "Washed up Clinton Staffers" and its stinking up the whole party

[The Backlash Cometh]

44. Those people in Washington, whoever they are, are allowing these

"favored allies" the right to commit civil torts wherever they live. Don't think we're not noticing.

[wroberts189]

33. So far best plausable explanation yet. nt

[MikeNearMcChord]

10. I don't think America will put up with this

They heard this before, except it was high tech jobs, would replace the lost manufacturing jobs. I believe the president and the rest of the party had better go back and reset, because an army of unemployed or underemployed people have a nasty way of upsetting civil society, see France circa 1789 or Russia circa 1917.

[ProSense]

16. No he hasn't

From the townhall transcript:

Now, a lot of the outsourcing that was referred to in the question really has to do with the fact that our economy -- if it's dependent on low-wage, low-skill labor, it's very hard to hang on to those jobs because there's always a country out there that pays lower wages than the U.S. And so we've got to go after the high-skill, high-wage jobs of the future. That's why it's so important to train our folks more effectively and that's why it's so important for us to find new industries -- building solar panels or wind turbines or the new biofuel -- that involve these higher-value, higher-skill, higher-paying jobs.

So I guess the answer to the question is, not all of these jobs are going to come back. And it probably wouldn't be good for our economy for a bunch of these jobs to come back because, frankly, there's no way that people could be getting paid a living wage on some of these jobs -- at least in order to be competitive in an international setting.

So what we've got to do is create new jobs that can't be outsourced. And that's why energy is so promising. We've been talking about what's called a smart grid, and some of you may have heard of this. The basic idea is, is that we're still using an electricity grid that dates back 100, 150 years ago. Well, think about all the gizmos you guys are carrying -- (laughter) --all the phones and the BlackBerrys and the this and the that. You're plugging in all kinds of stuff in your house. We've got an entirely new set of technologies, huge demands in terms of energy, but we've got a grid that's completely outdated.

He mentioned it during his address to Congress:

In this budget, we will end education programs that don’t work and end direct payments to large agribusinesses that don’t need them. We’ll eliminate the no-bid contracts that have wasted billions in Iraq, and reform our defense budget so that we’re not paying for Cold War-era weapons systems we don’t use. We will root out the waste, fraud, and abuse in our Medicare program that doesn’t make our seniors any healthier, and we will restore a sense of fairness and balance to our tax code by finally ending the tax breaks for corporations that ship our jobs overseas.

In order to save our children from a future of debt, we will also end the tax breaks for the wealthiest 2% of Americans. But let me perfectly clear, because I know you’ll hear the same old claims that rolling back these tax breaks means a massive tax increase on the American people: if your family earns less than $250,000 a year, you will not see your taxes increased a single dime. I repeat: not one single dime. In fact, the recovery plan provides a tax cut – that’s right, a tax cut – for 95% of working families. And these checks are on the way.

link

(emphasis added)

[martymar64]

17. Promises, promises

Money talks, bullshit walks. Like with everything else, I'll believe when I see it.

[ProSense]

20. A promise is not a reversal. n/t

[FreakinDJ]

18. The New Jobs myth has been played before

But your right - what I seem to remember and what is written in the transcrips seems better

How ever if China and India control the raw materials - the USA can not be competitive

[ProSense]

22. "finally ending the tax breaks for corporations that ship our jobs overseas. "

That's what he said he will do. He hasn't reversed anything.

[BlooInBloo]

29. Facts don't matter to ihateobama people.

[wroberts189]

42. Facts matter a great deal and I do not hate Obama.

But he is withdrawing from earlier stronger stances ..I posted links through this thread.


Where on the same side... but where are the tax code changes? no mention at "Town Hall"


And again I still fully support Obama... but like you suggest facts are facts.

[OhioChick]

50. When is he going to "ending the tax breaks for corporations that ship our jobs overseas?"

When does he intend on doing this, when there are no jobs left to ship overseas? There have been many mass tech layoffs since he's been in office. :shrug:

[wroberts189]

21. But you see at that "town hall" he said those jobs are gone and never coming back. nt

[ProSense]

23. He said

some of those jobs. That means some will. Times have changed.

[wroberts189]

25. He shifted postions....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=436641&mesg_id=436641


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=436641&mesg_id=436726

[ProSense]

30. No he didn't.

I provided links to his direct statements.

we will restore a sense of fairness and balance to our tax code by finally ending the tax breaks for corporations that ship our jobs overseas.

[wroberts189]

36. Its in direct contradiction of his campaign promises.

credit to DU'r acmavm


<snip>Obama opposes outsourcing of jobs
Agencies Posted: Jun 28, 2008 at 1133 hrs

Washington, June 28: Taking a tough stand against outsourcing, the presumptive Democratic nominee Senator Barack Obama said that the choice is between giving tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas or give benefit to those corporations that keep jobs domestically.
"We can keep giving tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas, or we can give tax benefits to companies that invest right here in New Hampshire," Senator Obama said at a joint appearance with Senator Hillary Clinton in Unity, New Hampshire.

"We can have a tax code that rewards wealth and hands out billions of dollars more to big corporations and multimillionaires. Or we can provide a USD 1,000 tax cut to 95 per cent of families in America, start rewarding work and not just wealth, and eliminate income taxes for seniors making USD 50,000 a year or less," Obama said, adding that's an agenda for change that we can believe in. That's the choice that we can make in this election.

"We can allow millions of Americans to work full-time but still not make enough to support their families, or we can raise the minimum wage, index it to inflation, and ensure that hard work pays off in America," the Illinois Senator said.
http://www.expressindia.com/story_print.php?storyId=328...
___________

Obama vows to stop outsourcing, India Inc irked
started by TruthSeeker 7 mnths ago

Washington/New Delhi: In remarks that are bound to raise hackles in India, Barack Obama made a strong anti-outsourcing pitch after securing the Democratic Presidential nomination vowing to end tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas if elected to office.



Playing to the gallery on the hot button issue of outsourcing in his acceptance speech, Obama kept up with the rhetoric on the subject that has been a staple of Democratic campaigning and went on to spell out what he would do as President on the front.



"Unlike John McCain, I will stop giving tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas, and I will start giving them to companies that create good jobs right here in America," said Obama, who has been fiercely opposing outsourcing.

Source: http://www.ibnlive.com/news/obama-vows-to-stop-outsourc...
_____________

Obama vows to award US cos that stop outsourcing
Agencies
Posted online: Sep 04, 2008 at 1250 hrs

Washington, September 4:US Presidential hopeful Barack Obama once again touched on the ticklish issue of outsourcing and while vowing to end tax breaks to companies that ship works overseas conceded that all lost jobs could not be redeemed.

Promising to retain as well as create more jobs for the Americans, the Democratic nominee said while all lost jobs cannot be redeemed, further movement can be halted by giving incentives to companies investing in the country.

"Not all jobs that have left are going to come back. We can stop some of them that are already leaving by stopping to give tax breaks to companies that are shipping jobs overseas and saving those tax breaks for investing in plants and equipment right here in the US," Obama said at a campaign stop in Ohio.

http://www.financialexpress.com/printer/news/357238 /
______________________

Outsourcing critics worry about Obama advisors

By Krishna Kumar V. E.
December 10, 2008


Outsourcing critics worry about Obama advisors

Critics of outsourcing who saw in Barack Obama their saviour, are now worried that the President-elect of United States may tone down his commitment to stop sending jobs offshore because of pressure from his advisors.

Noted Wall Street Journal writer William J. Bulkely believes that the reason for such a meltdown in Obama’s position could be that as many as 17 members of his transition economic advisory board are corporate honchos who have a long history of outsourcing.

Bulkely quotes Ron Hira of the Rochester Institute of Technology and author of the famous book ‘Outsourcing America’ as saying that the Obama team is yet to take up the issue of white-collar outsourcing very seriously.

The President-elect had promised to stop tax breaks to companies that shifted jobs overseas, a position that he still holds but could be forced to change giving the diverse opinions held by members of his transition team.

The blog says that almost every member of the advisory board that has been involved in corporate America has been connected to outsourcing. The author goes on to say that the companies where these advisors worked earlier are refusing to comment now.
http://www.bpowatchindia.com/bpo_news/obama_outsourcing...

[wroberts189]

37. And also I was very sorry to hear it and could not believe it. I am not alone.

But we are still on the same team. :) Perhaps he will fix the tax code ... but he also promised to make things fairer.

Its not fair that India pays full tuition for college while we pay off loans into our late 30's for example.

[Babel_17]

31. low-skill labor?

That used to be a republican talking point, that many of us workers are unskilled and lucky to get what we get.

"it's very hard to hang on to those jobs because there's always a country out there that pays lower wages than the U.S"

Those countries exist, yes, but that we have to allow our jobs to go to them is not axiomatic.

"we've got to go after the high-skill, high-wage jobs of the future."

So what, those other countries can't underbid for that kind of work?

Other than government and other jobs that directly service people, what jobs can't be outsourced?

Only those that have legislation to protect them such as those in industries related to national security.

I very much doubt that China, for example, won't be able to start pumping out high tech solar panels a few years after they show up.

[ProSense]

32. Is this a Republican talking point too

Obama.

we will restore a sense of fairness and balance to our tax code by finally ending the tax breaks for corporations that ship our jobs overseas.

Good grief. Let me back out of this thread. Believe what you want to.

[Babel_17]

38. No, I like that

But that only mitigates the other remarks, it doesn't cancel them.

I've lived a good number of years where the republican mindset worked towards setting the tone for the workplace.

The President's remarks that I mentioned are too close for comfort to what they have always said.

It's disrespect to hard working people. And it's not what you hear in European countries when the discussion turns to similar workers.

Just saying we need to set the bar high.

That's what FDR said in regards the progressive agenda, "... make me do it".

Part of getting it done is speaking up.

It gives the President a tool when negotiating with the corporatists. He can justifiably say, "Look, the people won't stand for what you want."

[FreakinDJ]

40. They already grow 12 inch silicon wafers

thanks to Bush allowing an accord between Intel and China. Oh but Simi-Conductor Engineering is "Low Skilled"

Bush did so much to outsource our industries

[wroberts189]

19. Sadly it does seem he has .. he campained with a different position. nt

[Richard Steele]

24. So, you think "Green jobs are the future" is just a line of shit?

Remind me to stop caring about what you think sometime, won't you?

[FreakinDJ]

26. "Green Jobs of the Future" = "Information Super Highway"

Those jobs can be outsourced too unless a stop is made in the corporate tax structure

Besides - China Korea and India control 90% of our raw materials and often manipulate the price to make USA products less competitive. Unless you encompass the "Whole Picture" you got nothin

[wroberts189]

28. 100% correct .. people were told to retrain in IT ..then that all got outsourced. nt

[wroberts189]

27. FreakinDJ see this thread.......

Full thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=436641&mesg_id=436641


The campaign stump position within thread:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=436641&mesg_id=436726

[Marie26]

45. Didn't reverse position. AFAIK never promised to stop outsourcing. nt

[LynneSin]

46. He's got a point

Not sure what we can do about the past - it's the future I'm worried about.

[OhioChick]

51. Bet you didn't hear this......as initially it flew under the US media radar.

India Inc. gets White House meeting on H-1B visas

Head of business delegation from India said to describe session with Obama economic adviser Lawrence Summers as 'positive'

March 23, 2009 (Computerworld) A delegation from one of India's largest business groups visited Washington last week to make a case for the H-1B visa program, among other political topics. And it was a group with enough clout to meet with top White House officials.

The meeting likely would have gone unnoticed had it not been for reports in the Indian news media. Heading the delegation was Sunil Bharti Mittal, chairman and CEO of Bharti Enterprises Ltd., India's largest mobile phone operator. The U.S. officials at the meeting included Lawrence Summers, director of the National Economic Council (NEC) and assistant to President Obama for economic policy.

In India, H-1B visas are seen as critical to that country's IT services industry. The four largest visa recipients during the federal government's 2008 fiscal year are all India-based services firms. After an earlier visit to the U.S., officials from India's top IT trade group, the National Association of Software and Service Companies (Nasscom), called the H-1B hiring restrictions set by Congress on financial services firms that receive federal bailout funds an issue of "extreme concern."

In last week's visit, Mittal was representing the Confederation of Indian Industry, whose affiliate members include Nasscom. According to the Indian press reports about the trip, Mittal characterized the delegation's meeting with Summers as "positive."

The Obama administration has yet to outline its plans for the H-1B program, but the White House has given some signals that it might support an increase in the annual visa cap — primarily via the appointment of officials who have advocated cap increases in the past, such as Janet Napolitano, the former governor of Arizona and now secretary of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

And in meeting with Summers, the delegation from India found itself with the White House organization that may be most likely to support an H-1B increase. One of the NEC's deputy directors is Diana Farrell, an Obama appointee who has been a strong supporter of offshore outsourcing. Prior to taking her job at the NEC, Farrell was a director at management consulting firm McKinsey & Co., which has argued in reports — some authored by Farrell — that offshore outsourcing creates savings that are reinvested by companies.

When Obama was a U.S. senator, he supported a comprehensive immigration reform bill that was proposed in 2007 but never voted on after its sponsors failed to get enough support for a procedural motion to end debate. That bill would have raised the annual H-1B cap from 65,000 regular visas to as many as 180,000, while also authorizing additional visas for foreigners with advanced degrees from U.S. universities beyond the 20,000 that currently can be issued each year. Since 2007, Obama has continued to urge support for comprehensive immigration reform, but without being specific on the issue of raising the H-1B cap.

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9130258&intsrc=hm_list

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=435656&mesg_id=435656

[ChromeFoundry]

52. Sounds like more of the same to me...

As for those "green jobs", they can just as easily be outsourced, too.