If the UAW is busted, will the workers try to retain what's left of their jobs? Or walk out?

[Deja Q]

What would you do in that situation, if that is what's going on?

[geek tragedy]

1. Nobody is 'busting' the UAW.

What's happening is that GM is losing so much money it may have to declare bankruptcy.

[Deja Q]

2. Cool. Some (not I) claim all this rigmarole is about busting the union.

[geek tragedy]

3. Cool back at ya!

I just get nervous because, according to some (who have since been added to my ignore list) if the government doesn't give GM a permanent subsidy, it's trying to bust the UAW.

[Winterblues]

6. Exactly what do you think will happen if Chapter 11 is declared?

What they will be demanding is a breach of the Union contract and for workers to accept much lower compensation for their labor. What do you consider busting a Union to be? If they can not make contracts and have to submit to the Corporation's wish for lower pay and less benefits how has the Union not been busted?

[geek tragedy]

7. Union busting is the practice of illegally preventing workers from unionizing.

A company going out of business or declaring bankruptcy because its business model is broken hurts workers, but is not union busting.

[Two Americas]

9. just not true

Bankruptcy is a way to break unions, and it would be naive to think that this is not a factor in any decision.

[geek tragedy]

11. Oh come on. Companies go bankrupt because they're broke.

That's like saying people lose their jobs to avoid paying taxes.

[Two Americas]

17. you doubt that?

No one who was truly pro-union would be arguing the line you are arguing here. If being a Democrat does not mean standing with the unions, it really means nothing anymore.

Go ahead and argue against that. The more you do, the better. I think clarity is of tremendous value. Our biggest problem in the party is no knowing where people stand, because there is such a smokescreen of "don't get me wrong, I agree with you BUT..." being thrown out there all the time.

Tell us we have no choice, too. Mock and ridicule us. Tell us how your point of view is going to prevail in the party. Give it all your best shot.



...

[geek tragedy]

19. Please do not insult my intelligence.

General Motors is losing tons of money. It hasn't been profitable for the better part of a decade.

Simple acknowledgement of this fact is not failing to be pro-union.

So, yes, I laugh at the absurd notion that bankruptcy for a company that has lost $20 Billion per year on average for the past four years is some grand plot.

[Winterblues]

15. You have a misconception on what Union busting really is.

GM will not go out of business and bankruptcy is in this case not what you infer. When the Union enters into a contract with management in good faith and the company uses the court system to break those contracts that is indeed busting the Union. When the Union can no longer negotiate in good faith it is irrelevent, in other words busted..and yet the Company will go on doing business only without Union Contracts..

[geek tragedy]

20. General Motors is bankrupt.

B-A-N-K-R-U-P-T. Insolvent. Broke. Not able to pay its bills and funds its current operations.

If they need the federal bail out, they're bankrupt. If they're not bankrupt, they don't need the federal loan.

[ogneopasno]

10. Declaring bankruptcy voids all contracts, including those bargained collectively.

It's pretty convenient for some companies, and will be for GM.

[geek tragedy]

12. Put away the tinfoil hat.

GM lost $70 Billion over the past two years.

$70 Billion.

And you wonder why they're contemplating bankruptcy?

[ogneopasno]

14. My comment contained no speculation or desperately far-reaching conclusions.

[safeinOhio]

4. A half million retired UAW members

will bring blood to the streets. Go ahead, make my day.

[soothsayer]

5. gawd, I hope so! EAT THE RICH!!

[backscatter712]

8. Occupy the factories.

Hold the production equipment hostage!

[ogneopasno]

13. It's been done.

The Flint Sit-Down Strike: http://www.uaw.org/solidarity/03/0103/feature07.html

[backscatter712]

16. With some success, just from reading the link.

No doubt, with bankruptcy looming, GM would want to outsource more production, move factories to Mexico, and so on.

To do that, they'd need to move millions of dollars worth of stamps and dies, other specialized equipment, from the U.S. to the Mexican factories.

Hold that equipment hostage, you hold GM hostage.

[Sgent]

18. Since the founding of GM

they have lost 100 billion dollars (after previous years dividends which were stopped years if not decades ago).

And you think they are going bankrupt to bust the unions?

[Still Sensible]

21. I think we have a rock and a hard place

Currently the bond holders are playing chicken with the administration. Those are the bastards that have sacrificed nothing as GM and Chrysler try to, with taxpayer help, get out of this mess. The UAW has made concessions, despite some here that seem to think otherwise. But if the bondholders don't give in to some extent, it won't matter and GM will go down. I am sure many of the conservative ilk would appreciate the "union busting" that would result from bankruptcy... but I think the administration's hard line at this time is pointed at the bond holders. Bankruptcy would leave those greedy shits cents on the dollar. Unfortunately, if the bondholders don't make concessions, it's a moot point and the company and the union goes down together.