Wall Street? Too big to fail; The Working Class of Detroit? Eat shit

[LBJDemocrat]

That's the message that this administration is sending. It seems that bullshit, "knowledge-economy" jobs for Ivy League-ers and spoilt fratboys are protected, even after they drive the entire economy into the dirt. The worker of Detroit, on the other hand, is pretty low on the list of priorities. After all, they can't finance a political campaign; and as for the rest of your constituents, you can fire Rick Wagoner to play the populist. They won't notice that you're funneling their tax dollars into the pockets of Lloyd Blankfein and his associates.

Edit: For context, the following quote is from BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7972464.stm),

"Mr Wagoner had already pledged to cut a fifth of GM's global workforce and close 14 factories. By forcing him to go, President Obama is clearly saying is, that's not enough."

[Jim Sagle]

1. You must be one of those nasty Krugmanite Republican PUMAs.

:sarcasm:

[BobRossi]

2. Where is the model?

Should GM and Chrysler use the federal government's financial model?
I sure as hell hope not!

[burythehatchet]

3. It completely blows my mind.

[jody]

4. Wall Street too big to fail and main street to little to succeed. That's govt. of the financiers

by the financiers, and for the financiers and it's time for it to perish from this earth.

IMO Abraham Lincoln would accept that after saying, "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it."

[bluestateguy]

5. What would you have the Administration do about the auto industry

and I mean right now, not what we would have liked to have seen done 10 years ago.

More bailout money? If so, how much?How long should the car companies live off the government? When would it end? I find that whenever these questions are asked, the same people dodge the question and then shift the subject to the banks and AIG. It's also perfectly fair to ask about the wisdom of those bailouts too, but you are still not answering the question.

At any rate, what would you do instead?

[safeinOhio]

10. Ok

Same amount of time it gave Lee Iacoca.
It is in the national interest to keep manufacturing here. Can't go to war with China without tanks. We'd have to buy them from China?
Japan bails out it's car companies, how can we compete if we don't?
It'll end when people start to buy cars again.

[LBJDemocrat]

11. Two solutions:

a) Nationalize it and do what we did with Citi and AIG. Mind you, it would take a small fraction of what it cost to bailout these two firms, and the benefits would go to working people who are struggling, not to yuppie shitheads and their superiors who have been ruining our country for decades.

b) Subsidize a portion of their production costs for a fixed term, with subsidies decreasing gradually.

[geek tragedy]

31. Nationalize GM so the American people can lose $20 BIllion a year

on it?

With the alternative being corporate welfare with the company eventually going bankrupt anyways.

Fail.

[moodforaday]

48. Maybe so.

Maybe it's worth spending such money to keep a few million people employed. Maybe or maybe not - at least there's an argument to be made. The bank bailouts don't even do that much.

[nonconformist]

6. You get a big K&R from me. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. So... you disagree with Obama?

When it comes to giving detroit billions of dollars?

[Urban Prairie]

8. Obama was interviewed briefly on a local TV station here today..

Even though I am one of the few people here that will not be affected by any or all of the automakers' possible demise, I don't think that he was very reassuring to those whose livelihoods depend directly or indirectly on them, and they are not too happy right now, IMO. I would hate to see a poll taken here right now on Barack's approval ratings.

[nonconformist]

9. You would be affected, too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5359070

I can tell you this, if GM fails, the entire SE Michigan region (for starters) will suffer. It will affect every aspect of the local economy.

[Urban Prairie]

14. I am a disabled federal employee and a renter

I can stay or leave, w/o much trouble, but this is home, my wife is earning 10 hrs/wk @ PT minimum wage, we really can't go much lower.

[MarjorieG]

23. I see Obama intervening in both, on different schedules. With auto, people don't want bailout money,

so this will keep afloat, which he wants. We're not ready to make decisions about the financial world, waiting for tests and toxic asset reduction first.

He's having to do unpopular things, and glad he has the guts to do what's needed. Reports this was not easy, and this a guy who kept going back to Chicago's old steel neighborhoods, long after employed elsewhere.

All on his plate are no win choices.

[Roadless]

12. Wall Street is in better shape than GM and Chrysler.

That's why. Those two companies have been run into the ground by dinosaurs, not unlike what the Bush admin did to the country the last eight years.

[Fumesucker]

16. How much money has gone to Wall Street lately?

Versus how much money has gone to Detroit?

The difference is one of orders of magnitude.

[joeunderdog]

19. If Wall St is "in better shape" than those dinosaurs, why did they ask for 50 times more money?

White collar good. Blue collar can suck it. That's what I hear.

For all the institutional wrongdoing on Wall St that got a handful of people exceptionally rich while putting the country's financial stability at (supposed) risk, we just back up the truck with blank checks and don't ask any questions.

The auto industry gets 20X the scrutiny for a fraction of the bailout money and then gets shut off. Obama needs to explain this.

Yeah, this is bullshit.

[Roadless]

20. I don't want to offend, but you can't blame D.C. for GM

GM has been a horrible employer and company for a long time. They have been digging their own grave. I hope they restructure and survive under a new plan and leadership. But as they currently are, there is no point in handing them more money.

[nonconformist]

26. Horrible employer? Not hardly.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[Roadless]

28. benefits retracted

http://www.truthout.org/article/gm-cuts-health-coverage-retired-seniors

Ask the seniors who had their health care benefits taken away:

He stayed for 31 years. Since he retired from his job as a data processor in 1985, he has gotten health coverage from the automaker, which helped pay for his heart surgery last year.

But now the 77-year-old Perry Hall resident and thousands of other white-collar GM retirees and their spouses or survivors, including hundreds in the Baltimore area, are losing that.

The automaker, hemorrhaging sales in its core U.S. market, announced yesterday deep cuts and other actions to raise cash that would generate $15 billion in savings through 2009. Among the casualties: health benefits for salaried retirees 65 and older.

A dated business model and terrible planning sunk the company.

[amborin]

29. that is the outcome of union concessions, which is what this is all about

[Roadless]

30. Consessions that came about due to very poor business practices by GM

Rather than come up with a plan to meet the future and the responsibilities of the company, they kept riding the SUV trough with complete disregard.

[amborin]

33. no, sorry, you have it wrong;

[Djinn]

39. and it really IS that simple

White collar good. Blue collar can suck it

Although I'd add the disclaimer that we're talking white collar that is also rich as Croesus.

When the little news that filtered down this way about the auto's - I tried really hard to remember ANY US politician suggesting that to get taxpayer funds stockbroker and bankers would have to take cuts in pay and conditions, how many have bleated about the "high wages/benefits" of auto workers? as if somehow a living wage and healthcare isn't something workers really deserve.

Time to EAT THE RICH and stops accepting all their bullshit

[Name removed]

25. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Marie26]

13. It's actually more like the entire upper Midwest

If GM goes down, Ohio & Michigan go down with it.

[Roadless]

22. It's already happening.

Populations form those areas are thinning, and moving west or east.

[tnlefty]

49. I'm seeing more and more Ohio tags here. Usually this happens

during the months prior to the beginning of the school year, but I'm seeing many more Ohio tags and some from MI. The employment situation isn't that great here so it has been mind boggling to me.

The speculation is that people are hoping to use their skills as either workers as suppliers for the Big Three, or employees who have been laid off, to get first dibs on being employed by volkswagon. :mad: I hate that this is even happening.

[madrchsod]

15. correction...."eat shit and die"

[TBF]

17. In solidarity with the workers of Michigan and Ohio - K&R n/t

[babsbunny]

18. He has to listen to the people

And we the people don't get it!

[roamer65]

21. What bothers me is the nasty double standard.

Billions for AIG without question, while the auto companies are being crucified for asking for 1/10 of the amount or less than which financial industry has rec'd.

[tbyg52]

24. Bingo. nt

[ogneopasno]

27. Yup, that about sums it up.

[FrenchieCat]

32. Calling the game in the middle of a play is a foul!

Wagoner's exit puts BofA CEO Lewis in hotseat

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Bank of America Corp Chief Executive Kenneth Lewis may be the next corporate boss to feel the heat after the administration forced General Motors Corp Chief Executive Rick Wagoner to resign in return for further government assistance.

The second-largest U.S. bank has received $45 billion from the government, making it one of the biggest recipients of government bailout money in the banking system.

Big shareholders have been calling for Lewis to step down since Bank of America announced in January it took a $20 billion government bailout to secure the acquisition of troubled Merrill Lynch & Co, which lost almost $16 billion in the last quarter of 2008.

The government may now add to the pressure from shareholders, analysts said. The sudden departure of Wagoner after nine years in the top job at GM signals the Obama administration is looking for management changes at bailed-out companies.

"His longevity in the job is probably very much in question," said Keith Wirtz, chief investment officer of Fifth Third Asset Management and a former CIO at a Bank of America subsidiary. Fifth Third holds shares in the bank.

more
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE52T6DP20090330?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=10112

--------------------------------------------------

Proposed outline of regulatory framework:


On taking over institutions:

"Depending on the circumstances, the FDIC and the Treasury would place the firm into conservatorship with the aim of returning it to private hands or a receivership that would manage the process of winding down the firm. The trustee of the conservatorship or receivership would have broad powers, including to sell or transfer the assets or liabilities of the institution in question, to renegotiate or repudiate the institution's contracts (including with its employees), and to deal with a derivatives book. A conservator would also have the power to restructure the institution by, for example, replacing its board of directors and its senior officers. None of these actions would be subject to the approval of the institution's creditors or other stakeholders." (Among other things, the trustee can step in, sell or keep whatever he or she felt was best for the company, completely replace the BoD, eliminate any necessary executives, void contracts and do so without stock or debt holder approval.)

Hedge funds -(This has been a long time coming):
"U.S. law generally does not require hedge funds or other private pools of capital to register with a federal financial regulator, although some funds that trade commodity derivatives must register with the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and many funds register voluntarily with the Securities and Exchange Commission. As a result, there are no reliable, comprehensive data available to assess whether such funds individually or collectively pose a threat to financial stability. The Madoff episode is just one more reminder that, in order to protect investors, we must close gaps and weaknesses in the regulation and enforcement of broker-dealers, investment advisors and the funds they manage."

ivatives and swaps:
"In our proposed regulatory framework, the government will regulate the markets for credit default swaps and over-the-counter derivatives for the first time."

(This is just the first part of the proposals for the swaps, the others are well worth reading.)

http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/tg72.htm

[spoony]

38. Oh, he may ask for something like that to cool the backlash

But that will be the reason, if it even happens. The disparity in treatment between Wall Street and manufacturing will continue, and it will still be the blue collar workers--and not the bankers--getting shafted and being told they need to give up more and more.

[flyarm]

34. ahh it's not just Wall Street getting the big bucks and a FU to the UAW workers and workers

throughout this country..see who else is trying to get your money , while people scramble for tents and scraps of food in our once great country!

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=alqR_B9y0gbk

If Oppenheimer Gets Handout, Blame Canada: Susan Antilla


Commentary by Susan Antilla
March 30 (Bloomberg) -- With word out that the U.S. is offering generous new welfare benefits, it was only a matter of time before those opportunistic foreigners who provided Lou Dobbs with his shtick started crossing the border with their hands out.

This time, the benefits are bailout goodies for banks and other financial institutions, and the grovelers are management of a Canadian brokerage firm.

Oppenheimer Holdings Inc., based in Toronto, said in several regulatory filings this month that it wants to reincorporate in Delaware and perhaps seek federal rescue money.

Oppenheimer “is exploring becoming a U.S. corporation and a U.S. bank holding company in order to help resolve the ARS problem for our clients,” the company said in its annual letter to shareholders released last week. (Toronto’s Oppenheimer & Co. isn’t related to OppenheimerFunds Inc., a unit of Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Co.)

The “ARS problem,” of course, is the nasty pickle Oppenheimer has gotten itself into with customers who hold $929.6 million in auction-rate securities, the ill-fated investments that flat-lined in February 2008. The auction-rate meltdown left investors at Oppenheimer and many of its Wall Street brethren unable to liquidate positions that had been marketed as, well, pretty darned liquid, to customers who often had no clue about the product’s risks.

Foul Call

Regulators and the public cried foul, and firms including Citigroup, Merrill Lynch & Co. and UBS AG ponied up the money to make customers whole after getting strong-armed by state regulators and the Securities and Exchange Commission.

.................................

I hope this makes every American sick to their stomach..while our countrymen/women lose their jobs...our money goes to foreign banks while our corporations, that paid decent wages and health benefits and pensions get screwed..it's a change alright..now people who were retired won't be able to get decent medical coverage..of which they worked their entire lives for .

[FrenchieCat]

35. Lotsa of "Perhaps" in that article.

I don't get sick over articles full of "Perhaps" but no facts. Certainly I don't light my hair on fire nor call my friends or family to do the same.

Seen any good Dramas lately? :eyes:

[earth mom]

36. When are people going to get the message? They do not give a damn about us peons!

Simple as that.

Get this through your heads people: Congress & the Obama administration does not give a flying fuck about us peons.

We are just the cash cow that allows them to do whatever the hell they want.

As soon as masses really and truly get this, then we might be able to get all French on their a$$es.

Until then, we are going to see more and more of this kind of shit sandwich.

[SammyWinstonJack]

42. Way past time to get all French on their a$$e$!

Should have been done long ago! :thumbsup:

[earth mom]

43. It's gonna take more than the two of us though.

When will the cheerleaders around here wake up?

How bad does it have to get for them to see what's really going on? :yoiks:

[spoony]

37. You nailed it.

Most people don't seem to get that aspect of this thing, that he was booted because he didn't cut deeply enough into his company. He didn't squeeze enough out of the workers or the bond holders. He didn't shut down enough plants/shifts. It means they aren't done with the double standard. And that's bullshit.

[progressoid]

40. Not to mention that politically this isn't going to help in 2010 and 2012.

AND it's not just going to affect Michigan. The anger over bailing out the fat cats while letting blue collars eat shit is going to spread.

[redqueen]

41. Wall Street - has us by the short hairs. Auto industry - not so much.

It really is that simple.

[Last Stand]

46. Yes, we know this because they told us themselves. It really is that simple.

Who do you believe? MSM, the pols, the guys who need another $100m for a new estate? These were the same people who sold us a fake war for 3 Trillion. I want my money back.

It's a hold-up. I'm to the point I'm willing to take my chances by letting them crash. What would we be able to do with the Trillion we are doling out? Build some schools, give out business loans, help reputable, upstanding banks and credit unions?

This is bullshit.

[redqueen]

47. Yes, it's bullshit.

It's a situation that developed over many decades. I don't see it being fixed in a few months.

[daleo]

44. It's now parasitic capitalism

This is the next stage in parasitic capitalism, where industrial concerns and their working classes (including the retired working class's pensions) will be sacrificed to keep the financial concerns afloat. These are the last big pools of capital for the financial sector to go after. I suppose it was inevitable after the off-shoring of working class jobs (now moving to professional class jobs, such as IT) became the driving force of the economy.

I am not sure what can be done. These changes may be setting the stage for something truly revolutionary, one way or another.

[flyarm]

45. LOOK UP Peter F. Geithner..understand Ford did not take any money..

funny that it would be Obama and Timmy that would take down GM....eh?? ....wake up people!!!




TIMOTHY GEITHNER

Biography

Early life and education
Geithner was born in Brooklyn, New York.<2> He spent most of his childhood living outside the United States, including present-day Zimbabwe, Zambia, India and Thailand, where he completed high school at International School Bangkok.<3> He then attended Dartmouth College, graduating with a B.A. in government and Asian studies in 1983.<4> He earned an M.A. in international economics and East Asian studies from Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies in 1985.<4><5> He has studied Chinese<4> and Japanese.<6>

Geithner's paternal grandfather, Paul Herman Geithner (1902–1972), emigrated with his parents from the German town of Zeulenroda to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 1908.<7> His father, Peter F. Geithner, is the director of the Asia program at the Ford Foundation in New York. During the early 1980s, Peter Geithner oversaw the Ford Foundation's microfinance programs in Indonesia being developed by S. Ann Dunham-Soetoro, President Barack Obama's mother, and they met in person at least once.<8> Timothy Geithner's mother, Deborah Moore Geithner, is a pianist and piano teacher in Larchmont, New York where his parents currently reside. Geithner's maternal grandfather, Charles F. Moore, was an adviser to President Dwight D. Eisenhower and served as a vice president of Ford Motor Company.

Early career

After completing his studies, Geithner worked for Kissinger and Associates in Washington, D.C., for three years and then joined the International Affairs division of the U.S. Treasury Department in 1988. He went on to serve as an attaché at the US Embassy in Tokyo. He was deputy assistant secretary for international monetary and financial policy (1995–1996), senior deputy assistant secretary for international affairs (1996-1997), assistant secretary for international affairs (1997–1998).<5>

He was Under Secretary of the Treasury for International Affairs (1998–2001) under Treasury Secretaries Robert Rubin and Lawrence Summers.<5> Summers was his mentor,<10><11> but other sources call him a Rubin protégé.<11><12><13>

In 2002 he left the Treasury to join the Council on Foreign Relations as a Senior Fellow in the International Economics department.<14> He was director of the Policy Development and Review Department (2001-2003) at the International Monetary Fund.<5>
In October 2003, he was named president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.<15> His salary in 2007 was $398,200.<16> Once at the New York Fed, he became Vice Chairman of the Federal Open Market Committee component. In 2006, he also became a member of the Washington-based financial advisory body, the Group of Thirty.<17[br />