Holy crap -- Schwarzenegger wants to *eliminate* CA welfare?

[phantom power]

(Just heard on NPR)

[annabanana]

1. He's going to have to spend A LOT more

on police if he starts starving people...

[pnwmom]

51. While he's sending people out of prison through the back door?

I don't blame him as much as I blame the legislature, and the people for approving a measure that calls for a 2/3 approval for ANY tax increase.

[KingFlorez]

2. I seriously hope the Legislature will fight this hard

It's an insane idea. Theft and robbery are going to skyrocket, because people are hurting as it is, for some welfare is the last life line.

[glowing]

3. I think he's betting on more money fro D.C.. since he knows it would look bad on

Obama to let the largest state go under and not pay for welfare or service help.. people dying in the streets from starvation will not go well on t.v... and how long before massive rioting and all our civil war spark.. a lot of our food is produced in CA... the rest of the nation may starve.

[phantom power]

4. That's quite a game of chicken....

I guess anything is justified in the name of not (gasp) increasing taxes
:eyes:

[pnwmom]

17. Raising taxes requires a 2/3 vote of the Legislature.

The governor's power in this regard is limited.

[TommyO]

41. But stripping citizens of their rights only requires a 50%+1 popular vote

What a fucked up state, and to think that I wanted to live there at one time.

[pnwmom]

I don't see why a proposition that imposes a 2/3 requirement doesn't itself

require a 2/3 vote. But that's just me.

[anigbrowl]

60. This is the hangover for a multiple-decade constitutional party in CA

Our system really is a bit of a mess. We can't run a deficit, it's almost impossible to raise taxes, we keep voting ourselves more long-term debt (from prisons to infrastructure) with little thought about the payment side, and our property taxes are deeply regressive.

[Whoa_Nelly]

5. Arnie is reducing everyone to nothing in this state

and I am leaving CA within the month.

It's bad here.
Really bad.

on edit:
am not on welfare.
Am one of the 30k pink slip teachers.
Have applied all over, had several interviews, and rejected each time, mostly because I hit the top of my pay scale, and the schools don't want to pay for experience; they only want to be able to stay within budget, no matter what the cost to the kids :grr:

[TransitJohn]

7. I'd say it's more like

California is reducing California to nothing...Arnie has plenty of accomplices, including the citizenry.

[Whoa_Nelly]

10. Well put!

thanks! :hi:

[pnwmom]

35. Exactly. Those stupid propositions are coming back to bite them now.

To swallow them whole, more like it.

Especially the one calling for a 2/3 vote by the legislature for any tax increase. (Even if one tax was lowered at the same time another was increased.)

[Thothmes]

52. and the State Legislature

[anigbrowl]

61. Yep. We can't put all the blame on him.

A lot of these problems were baked in long before he even moved to CA.

[fair trade soy chai]

27. Are you moving to Las Vegas?

They had a job fair here in the Midwest and apparently there are areas of the country where they are still giving signing bonuses because the need is so great. Good luck.

[Whoa_Nelly]

39. Oklahoma City

My home town.

[fair trade soy chai]

42. I am going to grad school this fall to study SPED...(I am a "mature" student, too).

It used to be a sure thing to be a teacher but these days, even they can be vulnerable job-wise. I still think that this is just a blip and will get better. It'd be nice if we could pull the plug on both wars; I believe that those expenditures are what is draining our resources the most:(

[Whoa_Nelly]

53. Am going to go into the private school sector, if I can

Have been teaching since 1992, two credentials: Gen Ed K-8 an SpEd K-12, LD, Mild to Moderate, ED.

Good luck in your pursuit of your SpEd degree. :hi:

[emsimon33]

86. Any idea where those places are? I have been applying

but no offers.

[pnwmom]

34. What about the Dems and Rethugs in the legislature who are voting against

any tax increase?

What about the people in the state who approved the proposition requiring a 2/3 vote by the legislature for any tax increase? And who voted for Prop 13 which keeps property taxes unbalanced?

There is plenty of blame to spread around.

[Cleita]

Proposition 13 was sold to the electorate as a bleeding heart proposition

to keep elderly residents from losing their homes, who were on a fixed income, but whose property was going up in value. People fell for it and voted for it. It only took three years for them to see the error of their ways, but it was too late. In retrospect the problem of elderly losing their homes could have been solved with a less draconian measure. However, I'm proposing that we Californians roll back Prop. 13 on a county level. Well it wouldn't be exactly a roll back but there is nothing stopping counties from increasing property taxes for their own uses since those services that Arnold is eliminating will fall on the counties to maintain.

[pnwmom]

79. You're right -- lots of places have a tax system that addresses the problem

for the elderly.

[LooseWilly]

84. You do realize that prop 13 passed in 1979 or so, right?

It's been fucking the state up incrementally ever since... but it cuts the taxes of those who owned property back then... so California essentially just has to survive the old beneficiaries (including my virtual mother in law)... and make sure that the law doesn't continue to apply to any corporations...

As for holding in blame a law that's 30 years old or so... well, yeah... but the voters who voted for it?... hell, I feel old and I wasn't even 10 years old when that law passed...

If we're just gonna blame baby boomers... well, I'm good with that.. but no one is ever willing to actually hold baby boomers responsible for anything... let alone make them pay "reparations" for their domestic actions.

I think we should burn them all at a stake... and that way I might find home prices dropping enough so that I can actually consider buying one...

[Canuckistanian]

6. Thom Hartmann had a theory about this

Thom said that Ahnuld would enact ALL the cuts needed to balance CA's budget - no matter how draconian. To the Republican's great delight.

Then he'd wait for the people to rise up and demand something be done.

Then, he'd promise to repeal the proposition system and especially Prop 13. And ask for a major tax hike on the wealthiest Californians.

Any thoughts?

[Serial Mom]

11. Sorry, he should have a tax hike on the wealthiest Californians...

Come one, even good Dems in the film industry do NOT need to make $20,000,000 (or more) per picture PLUS royalties after the film is put on dvd or whatever.

[MADem]

13. Some make twice that, as a starting salary. nt

[Billy Burnett]

24. Some make 7 figure salaries doing scoring and sound design.

Most that I know wouldn't mind if their taxes were higher.


www.smpte.org

[girl gone mad]

56. The film industry is already fleeing the state.

All that would do is speed up the exodus.

[MADem]

90. They're coming to Massachusetts--in DROVES. nt

[pnwmom]

20. "He"? Two-thirds of the legislature has to approve any tax increase.

Californians have done this to themselves with their stupid propositions -- which, of course, only need to be passed by a simple majority.

[phantom power]

23. Very bad situation. Looks like they're about to self-implode.

[Canuckistanian]

25. But then there's the 2/3 majority mandate for tax increases

I'm sure Schwarzenegger considered it (and probably Gray before him), but there are too many Repubs to block it.

[MADem]

12. Can he do that unilaterally? I'm not familiar with CA government workings, I'm afraid.

I'd think the legislature would get voted out en masse if they had the power to forestall that, and not do it.

Maybe a brave bipartisan group of legislators ought to not wait for Arnie, and do the 13 thing on their own. Start collecting those signatures now....and maybe collect "recall" signatures while they're at it (I'll bet former Gov. Davis would go door-to-door!).

[Canuckistanian]

18. I have no clue either

Is that in the CA Constitution? Or can they pass a law?

Either way, it can be repealed somehow.

[pnwmom]

21. No, he can't. And two-thirds of the legislature must approve any tax increase

which, so far, they've been unwilling to do.

[MADem]

38. Fascinating--so it's an Inaction Standoff. He could solve his problem in the blink of an eye,

though...simply decriminalize that Number One cash crop and tax it robustly.

IF CA stops bothering people about that business, too, it frees up police to deal with other issues. Like armed robberies. Thefts. Burglaries.

[pnwmom]

49. Hah! Except he can't. California tried to approve just the medical use of

that cash crop -- and the Feds intervened.

[MADem]

55. Didn't the feds also say that they're going to back away from enforcement on that plant, though?

Plenty of states have decriminalized or made possession a petty fine sort of issue.

[StrongBad]

65. It's still very much legal for medicinal use here in CA.

[pnwmom]

78. Okay, good. Glad to hear some progress has been made somewhere! n/t

[anigbrowl]

63. No, he couldn't

Although he's expressed willingness to look at legalizing pot. But our deficit hole is $21 billion. The whole CA market for weed is estimated at about $14 billion. So it would have to be taxed at 150%, which would make it about the same price as cocaine. Realistically such a move would cover about 5-10% of the budget deficit. I support the idea 100%, but the notion that it would solve everything is wishful thinking.

[MADem]

74. You're not counting on the Pot Tourists. That might increase revenues!

Maybe it won't cover the whole bill, but every bit helps. Every hotel tax, meal tax, sundry purchased, it all helps.

Nevada did that to pull 'em in, too.

[anigbrowl]

75. For sure, but it'll be a fairly marginal gain

For context, put revenue in the Netherlands (about half the population of CA), is about $600m annually. So I'd estimate we could pull about $1.5 billion annually, maybe $2b with ancillaries like you mention. Which is nothing to sneeze at, of course.

[LooseWilly]

83. the... pot tourists?

Cali isn't Vancouver. We still don't have (well, mostly don't have) smoke/coffee shops. The legal medicinal gets taken home, generally. Tourists would have to know someone to find the medicinal shops... because if they were obvious enough to be found by tourists... they'd be raided by the Feds. Hell, even when I was driving a taxi in Oakland, I was often unsure of where the clubs had located to. They're shut down with enough regularity that it's hard to keep track of them.

Maybe Obama has done something about this in the last year or two... but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Legalize it proper like... and I can think of at least 10 corners in Oakland where there'd be a regular trade. Off the top of my head...

[MADem]

89. It got taken home in Nevada, too...

What brought "tourists" to Nevada was the ability to purchase the substance without having to sweat getting sent up the river for small amounts, not the "coffee house" or social aspect of it. Simply the ability to go have some fun, buy some of the product, party, and not end up in jail for five years if the person got caught--that was the draw.

For a brief period several years back, it made Nevada the place to go to have a bit of fun, since their law was relatively benign compared to other states (something like a six hundred dollar "go and sin no more" fine). Since that time, though, other states (like MA, which just writes a hundred buck ticket now) have overtaken them in droves and have even less onerous rules.

This isn't much of an "Obama" show, either. This is a state-by-state issue, with Congress weighing in at the end of the line. And Obama's not about to get out in front on this one, either.

[ourbluenation]

66. He most certainly can. In our state the Gov has the power to veto line items in budgets...

Healthy Families is on the chopping block along with CalWorks and DV programs.

[ourbluenation]

67. to be clear - I was not talking about tax hikes..sorry for the confusion.

[LooseWilly]

87. And maybe Glynda, the good witch of the East (??) will swoop down...

... and provide California with an IRA income from a long lost relative in Oz who had a phenomenal 401K program that didn't lose half its value,,, I'll wait for that solution with baited breath...

[MADem]

91. Well, that's not terribly helpful, but thanks for your input anyway.

I was simply looking for someone who could describe the government's structure so that I could better understand the process and issues, is all. Glynda and IRAs and 401Ks doesn't help answer my simple question.

[phantom power]

16. Sounds like the "n-dimensional chess" theory to me...

I'm not a big believer in that kind of theory. I'd say the Governator is just another GOP ideologue who doesn't realize he's playing with fire.

[Canuckistanian]

31. It doesn't sound likely, does it?

Ahnuld isn't exactly renowned for his two-dimensional thinking.

[DBoon]

28. He's a Republican!

He will figure out some other way to tax people, one that skips the wealthiest.

Why is he talking about eliminating welfare and not, say, road construction projects?

He has already picked his side in class warfare, and it is not the side of people on welfare

[Hannah Bell]

72. i bet on: won't happen.

[XemaSab]

8. And close 80% of the state parks, eliminate the AIDS office, and eliminate the

poison control hotline. :banghead:

You have little kids, no?

I was working with a fisheries guy at a restoration site, and he told me a story. He had a year-old baby, and he was taking care of him while his wife was at work. He put the kid in the high chair and left the room for HE SWEARS no more than 5 minutes. He came back and the kid had basically reached into his diaper and painted himself with shit. It was EVERYWHERE... in the kid's mouth, in the kid's hair, all over the high chair, in the kid's food... He called poison control and they ROARED with laughter. They said you wouldn't believe how many calls they get from parents. Basically they said to wash the kid off, and if he starts acting sick take him to the doctor.

But really... how does it save the taxpayers money if every baby who eats shit is clogging up the ER? :banghead:

[phantom power]

19. The GOP -- party motto: "penny wise, pound foolish"

[XemaSab]

22. Pretty much...

[pnwmom]

26. The Dems are at fault here, too.

And so is every voter in the state who helped approve the stupid proposition that requires a 2/3 vote for any tax increase.

[phantom power]

I agree, although...

it's also true that Arnold could have used his bully pulpit to send a message like "The legislature should enact the tax increases I have proposed, so that we can avoid having to cut social services."

In the segment I listened to, his position was that (a) "we can't afford all these services" and (b) we can't raise taxes.

Well, sure they can raise taxes.

[pnwmom]

36. He's been saying that for quite some time. No one's been listening. n/t

[phantom power]

46. huh. maybe I have to change my mind about the Thom Hartman theory?

[anigbrowl]

64. Yeah, take another look

Arnold is very moderate for a GOP member. The state party can't stand him and call him a RINO for talking about compromise all the time. As pnwmom says, he really has very little power to raise taxes and the legislature is held hostage by the GOP.

[ContinentalOp]

58. Newsflash: that was 31 years ago. Some of us weren't even born yet.

Many who voted for it probably left the state long ago, sold their home for a huge profit and retired somewhere cheap. Most of them probably weren't even from CA in the first place. It's an age old pattern: outsiders move here, take all they can, stink the place up, and then split while complaining about how much CA sucks.

[pnwmom]

80. Newsflash: if Californians are unhappy with that proposition they can repeal it

with another.

[LooseWilly]

69. That 2/3 vote provision has been law as long as I can remember.

And I've been voting for 20 years.
There's a minority of Republicans from districts like Orange County that have just enough numbers to hold any tax increase hostage... and they consistently refuse to budge an inch... let alone "compromise". Schwarzenegger has tried at least 3 times to pass "reforms" on districting procedures... but his being a Republican, during the Bush administration, we all assumed (probably rightly) that it was an effort to gerrymander districts to increase Republican control (as DeLay managed in Texas)... and the voters told Ahnuld to piss up a rope every time.

There's been talk about trying to change the 2/3 rule to pass a budget... but everyone seems to be afraid that it's too wonky of an issue to whip up any excitement about... so no one takes the chance.

Hell, Schwarzenegger proposed reducing all non-union state employees to minimum wage a couple of years back, and the State Controller refused to sign off on the paperwork.

Meanwhile, because of prop 13, half the state pays property taxes based on prices in 1979 or something like that...

And, just to refresh memories... Gray Davis was recalled largely due to outrage over a proposal to increase auto registration fees to try to recoup some of the monies that had to be spent to cope with Enron's raping of the California energy sector and overall economy (which Davis sued in response to... but which suit was promptly dropped by Scwarzenegger upon coming into office... after a run which included meeting with Ken Lay in the planning stages). Ironically, Scwarzenegger has now signed a... increase in the auto registration fees.

It's like a circus.

[pnwmom]

81. It IS a circus. And I'm disgusted that in my state the voters passed

a proposition copying yours a couple years ago. We don't have anything like Prop 13 yet though, thank goodness.

[LooseWilly]

85. I'm sorry for you, and your state.

I presume we're talking about the 2/3 to pass a budget law?...

It's the stupidest thing imagineable... and it gives Republicans political ammo that they shouldn't have... "The budget is screwed up (nevermind we're the ones who screwed it up)... because taxes are too high (but really... we fought to keep them low... a remarkably honest claim) and we'll continue... blah blah blah

The Republicans essentially use it as a point of shaking down the Democrats each year... though I'm getting the impression that the Democrats are endeavoring to get out from under that bit of extortion... though it's always hard to tell with Democrats.

[Cleita]

68. Why did he allow the kid to sit around in a dirty diaper?

I guess he thought he'd wait until "she" came home to change it. *men*.

[Hannah Bell]

9. "We can't afford it".

[Sequoia]

14. and Healthy Families and close the state parks.

And give us toll roads and oil rigs on our beaches. His job as gov is to destroy us one and all.

[Hannah Bell]

15. "we can't afford those things"

[DBoon]

32. and if you try to make the wealthy pay for them

they will threaten to gather up their toys and move to Nevada

[pnwmom]

29. The legislature and the people are helping to destroy the state.

The people approved a proposition that requires a 2/3 approval by the legislature for any tax increase. And so far, the votes haven't been there.

[Initech]

30. The "Total Recall" is proving to be a huge, gigantic FAILURE.

Glad I didnt vote for Ah-nuld.

[MichaelHarris]

33. You know, since Reagan

these right-wing nutsacks who went around spouting their 10th Amendment, anti-federalist mouths off now have it. Arnie you wanted states rights, now pay for it. You want sovereignty, fund it. Federal republican lawmakers you want to whip your base into a frenzy with promises of sovereignty under the 10th only to pass on that "freedom" for the states to fund while promising no taxes, deal with it, you caused it.

[SoCalDem]

37. Squeeze play

Truthfully, California's a horrible place to be poor, and more so now, than ever before.

There will probably be a reverse-migration to nearby states with cheaper living expenses, so look out Arizona, Utah, Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas..

Poor people who have lost their place to live, and their jobs,will be starting to move away..if they still have a car:)

Republican governors have taken a toll on California:(

[girl gone mad]

57. I see dozens of CA plates on cars here in N, Texas.

They are already coming and have been for a few months now.

[Liberal_in_LA]

76. Money is definitely required to live in CA, especially SF and LA. 1 bedrooms rent for about $1500

[LooseWilly]

82. You forgot Oregon and Washington.

Hell... Cali expatriates are already being blamed for those states trending blue....

[SoCalDem]

88. I didn't forget them..just that the "leavers" are likely to be

from SoCal, and the weather "up there" may be too "damp" :)

[JVS]

40. That sounds like a recipe for social unrest.

I understand people being upset about the state park thing, but that is actually something that can legitimately be shut down for a while until CA gets its shit together. Eliminating welfare, especially when unemployment and foreclosures are through the roof is foolish if not dangerous.

[ProgressIn2008]

43. My first thought too: stripping away the social contract will mean civil unrest.

I think things are about to get very ugly.

[rucky]

44. I think it'll mostly depend on how the police treat the newly-homeless. n/t

[JVS]

47. Since when are CA's police known for calm and non-escalating behavior?

[Retrograde]

45. it's what the people want

they had a chance to approve some measures last week that would have helped keep the state solvent. They didn't. Plus, there are a handful of Republican lawmakers in Sacramento who are willing to see the state destroyed rather than raise taxes by even a small percentage.

I didn't vote for him, but Ahnold has been trying to get his party to act like responsible citizens. He's probably wishing for a better scriptwriter just about now.

[phantom power]

48. Sounds like the people are about to run afoul of the 3rd chinese curse.

(May you find what you are looking for)

[ContinentalOp]

59. Those props would have made things worse. They were all cuts anyway, including a spending CAP.

Which would have meant more cuts cuts cuts for years to come. The only tax increase would have taken place two years from now.

[spanone]

50. yea, think of the money they'll save

:sarcasm:

[bridgit]

54. Repeal Prop 13! Then tell Grover Norquist he *has* no business in California

http://repealprop13.org

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/19/magazine/reagan-s-revenge-as-invented-by-howard-jarvis.html

[Triana]

62. Typical idiot Republican. n/t

[LooseWilly]

70. Excellent !! Now I'll finally have the recruiting tool I need !!

I'll recruit the thugs... and we'll storm Sacramento... and we'll take not-so-Conan's bling!!

Seriously... if this dumbshit idea ever goes through... there will be a lot of hardware ready for deployment. It'll be a warlord's dream... I'll just need to time the bling revolution to coincide with deployment of CA National Guard units to Iraq/Afghanistan, like God did in New Orleans... and what could go wrong (we'll offer jobs to the cops... similar pay... bribe the fuckers)?

[Joe the Liberal]

71. This proves that republicans CAN run things.......

straight into the fucking ground! I always thought CA was a pretty blue state and yet they always for a republican governor for some reason. No offense to any DUers who live in CA but I would certainly not want to live there ever.

[Art_from_Ark]

73. I think in Ahnold's case, it was the celebrity appeal

"Hey, man, it would be so COOL to have the Terminator as governor!"

That's one reason why all other Republican challengers were pushed out of the way during the recall election.

[dkf]

77. Are there other areas that can be cut easily?

Why doesn't someone make some suggestions?

I don't get it.