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America's wealthiest families are pouring millions into slashing the estate tax

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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 08:27 AM
Original message
America's wealthiest families are pouring millions into slashing the estate tax
On a bright April day in Barack Obama's America, where equality is on the rise and greed is on the run, a Democratic senator from an impoverished Southern state took a brave stand — on behalf of the country's richest families.

On April 1st, Sen. Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas, a state with the nation's third-lowest median income, sponsored a budget amendment that would sharply reduce taxes on the estates of multimillionaires after they die. Estates worth up to $7 million per couple, and $3.5 million for individuals, are already exempt from taxes — meaning that 99.75 percent of all Americans die without paying a dime to Uncle Sam. But Lincoln's proposal would raise the exemption to $10 million — and slash the tax rate on even larger estates from 45 percent to 35 percent. All told, the move would let the children of Wall Street barons, dot-com millionaires and wealthy industrialists pocket more than $90 billion in tax revenues over the next decade.

The families behind the estate-tax repeal — working in concert with right-wing anti-tax ideologues — are attempting to undo a century-old consensus about taxing huge inheritances, one borne of the progressive movement in the late 19th century. The Gilded Age produced such huge concentrations of wealth that even its biggest winners agreed that they should share their fortunes rather than simply pass them along from one generation to another. Among those making the case was Andrew Carnegie, whose steel fortune dominated the nation's economy at the time. "The parent who leaves his son great wealth generally deadens the talents and energies of the son, and tempts him to lead a less useful and less worthy life than he otherwise would," Carnegie wrote, adding on another occasion that he "should as soon leave to my son a curse as the almighty dollar." The estate tax also became a cause of Teddy Roosevelt, who argued that vast fortunes passed between generations cause "great and genuine detriment to the community at large." Convinced that massive inheritances offended America's egalitarian principles, Congress authorized the first estate tax in 1916.

Many of the families are household names. There is the Mars family, makers of M&Ms and other candy, who would avoid $10 billion in estate taxes. There is the Gallo family, whose winemaker patriarch hoped to save an estimated $500 million from abolishing the tax. There are the Nordstroms, of department-store fame; the Dorrances, makers of Campbell's soup; and the Wegmans, owners of supermarkets by the same name. And there is the Walton family, owners of Walmart, a clan whose worth may exceed $75 billion. Their personal profit from repealing the estate tax would total $30 billion — roughly the gross domestic product of Jordan.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/28418678/the_death_tax_scam

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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yet another reason that it should be 100 percent
after, say, $1M for the various family members.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. Folks STOP shopping at Wal-Mart!!! And buying Mars bars.
FDR: Economic royalists, the whole lot of 'em!
ER: It's so vulgar.


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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. "Sen. Blanche Lincoln"
Yet another one of the corrupt DINO's that the party and the nation would be infinitely better off without.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
4. Eat the rich
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GKirk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'm sorry I just can't get on this bandwagon...
... it doesn't affect me but someone should be able to decide what they do with their own money through a will.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. It's not their money.

It is the money which they have legally stolen from their workers.
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GKirk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. What?
You aren't implying that all estates moneys are stolen money are you?
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Maybe not all, certainly most.

How are such huge amounts of money accumulated in the first place? It is not possible for one person or family to do the work that would result in such reward. Nope, it is the profits of the companies they own, and those profits are the labor of their workers which they expropriate. Likewise if it comes from investments, it comes from the hide of those workers of the company which they have invested in.

Capitalism is theft.
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GKirk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Let's hope that the Democratic Party
never has people like you running things.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. Be assured, that will never happen.

The party is owned by capitalists, they would not be pleased.
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GKirk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Watcha doing here?
Did you notice the word 'democratic' democraticunderground?
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Ha! So sez the 6 week wonder.

You amuse me.

One might ask what is so democratic about supporting plutocracy?
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GKirk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Funny, cause you must be very frustrated
are there any democrats in office who want to steal from people like you do?
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. Any Democrat that supports progressive taxation by your definition "steals," no?
Of course, I'm using "steal" in place of expropriate. The progressive income tax, of which the estate tax has been apart of for almost a century, is just another form of expropriation. The only difference is the direction it's going. It is wealth redistribution.

For the last three decades, there has been a large amount of wealth redistribution, mainly to the richest 1% of America at the expense of everyone else. Under older leaders like FDR and Truman and even Eisenhower, the opposite was true. The Middle Class could not have been created without wealth redistribution to the lower classes.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
43. blindpig is correct
and you are a little lap dog begging for scraps at the table.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Your fluting isn't very good anyway.
:eyes:
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. ah yes it does effect you... READ/LEARN
Edited on Sat May-30-09 10:12 AM by fascisthunter
the country is fucked from so much ignorance. It is sad...

If you have an aristocracy (which is created due to inheritance), you endanger a democracy. A wealthy elite forms to warp government policy to their advantage due to their extraordinary wealth, and that wealth creates wealthy families, who do nothing to deserve such wealth, creating rich children with little to no connection to the majority of American's reality. These unfeeling, clueless self-centered parasites reek havoc on a Democracy. Today we see the end results, and the last Great Depression was partially a result of what I am talking about.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. "Their own money"
People that wealthy never got it through ethical or lawful means.

The people who accrued it are bad, their children are always worse.
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GKirk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. Let's not wait til they die...
...let's take their ill gotten goods now.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. I'm all for that
However, they are effective self promoters of how they "earned it" As long as they can keep the majority of Americans in moderate comfort, no one notices.

They've been getting greedier though (the entire Children thing, the ones who made the money generally understand how lucky they were that they were so crafty they don't have shame, they just have the intelligence not to overdo it, the kids think they are entitled to rape the country)

If the economy keeps tumbling and the social safety net is cut, I fully expect something like that to happen.

Not to worry, they hedged their bets and will be on their private jets to the next host in no time.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
16. "their own money"???
Edited on Sat May-30-09 10:14 AM by TahitiNut
Let's see.

Large estates are comprised MOSTLY of untaxed/unrealized capital gains ... capital gains on assets which, if sold or transferred IN ANY WAY OTHER THAN THE DEATH OF THE OWNER, would be taxed at rates up to 20% or more.

If the deceased had EMPLOYED the beneficiaries and PAID them over a period of 5-10 years in an amount up to $5-7 million, that would have been taxed under the federal income tax at rates up to 35% or more.

Instead, the beneficiaries get up to $7 million TAX-FREE ... from the DEATH of the wealthy owner.

Taxes of 35% if the person WORKS for it.
Taxes of 20% if someone else works to increase the asset's value (i.e. capital gain).
Taxes of 0% if someone DIES?

Anyone who thinks that makes sense is just fucking STUPID.
An ignoramus.
Or wealthy and greedy.

Dick DeVos?? Is that YOU?? :eyes:

:puke:


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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. people just don't know
they get the simple concept of inheritance but nothing more.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. It's arrogant, prideful ignorance ... stupid and proud of it.
That so many other people who've studied it would argue for estate taxes SHEERLY OUT OF PREDATORY GREED ... is a sociopathic projection of base motives that are possessed by the pridefully ignorant themselves.

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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
29. Behind every great fortune is a great crime.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. My, you're a good little lickspittle, aren't you?
maybe they will give you an extra crumb for being such an obedient little doggy
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
31. I'm sorry but it does affect you.
Without the inheritance tax on the largest estates, your own taxes will rise either directly or indirectly.

Remember that the barre is set so high now that only the very wealthiest of estates pays ANY inheritance tax and even then that's after the tax lawyers and accountants have sheltered as much money as possible during the lifetime of that person.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
33. Wealth must die with the person who generated it.
Or at least, most of it. Some should go to their family, especially if children are involved.
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DrToast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
36. The estate tax doesn't limit people's options on what to do with money n/t
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
38. Think of it as a fee to support the system that allowed them to amass
such embarrassing fortunes.

I know, I know, some day it might be you that has to deal with such problems. What are you selling?


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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
6. Some people think this doesn't affect them.
Edited on Sat May-30-09 09:09 AM by fasttense
They think people should be able to leave their money to their children or charities just how they want to. But they are wrong.

By cutting the taxes for the uber wealthy who leave billions of dollars for their off spring, it increases the tax burden of the rest of us. Every time a billionaire or corporations doesn't pay enough taxes, someone has to make up for that loss. Do you think the budget deficit will go away simply by ignoring it? Someone has to pay when the wealthy do not. And that someone is usually the poor and middle class.

Is the money billionaires and the top 400 families are making really earned and belong to them? I know for a fact that our federal government has handed over trillions of dollars of our tax money to banks/Wall Street/Insurance firms. Where do you think this money goes? It doesn't simply sit in a bank gathering dust. It is invested and handed out to uber wealthy people who have enough money to impact a corporation. So, the government basically handed over our tax dollars to the wealthiest clients of those firms. Do these rich people now have a right to turn around and give our tax dollars to their spawn? Why? It wasn't their money to begin with and just because they managed to manipulate and con our politicians into handing it over, doesn't mean they have a right to it.

Behind every great wealth is a great crime. Just because you don't know what the crime is, doesn't make it any less immoral, or any less taxable.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. people live in a vacuum of ignorance
they don't understand how economies work past, and present. They think they know because they are constantly told BS by paid hacks in the media and especially because right wing propagandists on AM radio.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
12. It's Time for all Americans to Wage a War against the Wealthiest Families
lets cut to the chase... the fuckers are the ones warping our government to the point we see it at today. They are in fact waging a war against all of us and their efforts so far have destroyed lots of lives.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
17. One of the reasons this Country was founded was to escape a nobility
The estate tax is a way to prevent a nobility from arising in America.

Allowing generation after generation to accumulate wealth without having any connection to how the money was made in the first place creates a callous class of wealthy brats who abuse the middle class at their own pleasure.

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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
21. We really appear to hate the very wealthy vigorously, don't we.
I deliberately used 'very' rather that 'uber' even though I know what it means. I also spell 'America' with a 'c' instead of three 'k's. But that's just me.

When we talk about loopholes in tax laws, etc., I think in the same discussion should appear the members of congress that we reelect for several generations.

With a larger turnover than what we presently see in our elected officials, perhaps the graft and corruption would not be as great. Maybe an infusion of 'fresh blood' every two years (or six) would reduce the 'gimme some' syndrome that currently affects the congressional halls.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. There is corruption in Government and we know about it
because the media reports on it, so that we have a negative opinion of government solutions.

The corruption in Corporate America makes the corruption in government look like a high school kid selling candy in school out of his backpack counter to school policy.
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DrToast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
37. This has nothing to do wtih wealthy people. THEY'RE DEAD!
It has to do with people becoming wealthy by doing NOTHING.
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. Read again the subject line of the OP. It mentions wealthy people
who are wanting to reduce the estate tax.

The general theme of threads such as this could be "Wealthy people and why I hate them" or "Wealth envy and how it just gnaws at me because those people have more stuff than I have" or something similar.

Many, if not most, of the very wealthy put in long hours at the office/factory/whatever prior to becoming wealthy. Some of the wealthy inherited their wealth, and do good works - some do not.

I would imagine that Sen Kerry's wife is for keeping as much of her family money as she can, and who can blame her. Not me. I honestly don't give a crap that they have more 'stuff' than I have.

BTW. The people involved in the estate tax battle are in fact still alive, else they wouldn't be still fighting.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
22. Bill Nelson D FL also wants to repeal the estate tax.
Voted against repealing estate tax; but now supports it
McCollum criticizes Nelson for doing some flip-flopping of his own: Nelson initially opposed repealing the estate tax, but switched his position this summer. Nelson responds that he voted for partial repeals of the tax when he was in Congress but became convinced that a full repeal was warranted when larger-than-expected budget surpluses materialized.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Economic/Bill_Nelson_Tax_Reform.htm

After this move I emailed him telling him he lost my reg Dem vote. I guess he needs the money from these rich assholes for election campaigns.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
28. It should be 90%. nt
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. Easily. That would still ensure that all their spawn will still be millionaires. n/t
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
34. The Nordstrom family is also behind this?
Ohhh, baybee, are they getting a letter.

I have been shopping at Nordstrom for the past oh, thirty years. Well-made items (like shoes) last much longer than the cheap stuff, for instance. While I agree that it's a good thing to be able to hand an estate to one's family members, they will NEVER miss the money with the current level of taxation.

Maybe I should ask them why Bill Gates, Sr. still supports the estate tax, too.

:mad:
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
35. The Golden Rule
He who has the gold makes the rules.
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
40. Fine, slash the estate tax. THEN pass another tax, earmarked to fund
TANF, Medicaid, Food Stamps, WIC, and all of the other programs that THEIR OWN EMPLOYEES NEED because these assholes don't pay a decent salary to hard-working Americans. Take the fucking money BEFORE the assholes die. Problem solved.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
42. the inheritance tax should be 100% on anything over the median annual wage.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-30-09 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
45. So they want to hang onto their ill-gotten gains?
Who could have predicted this?
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