College grads getting left with low-level jobs

[marmar]

via the Detroit Free Press:



College grads getting left with low-level jobs
Move makes it harder to increase earnings

BY TONY PUGH • MCCLATCHY NEWSPAPERS • June 28, 2009


WASHINGTON -- The tough economy and tight labor market have tarnished the luster of a bachelor's degree for young college graduates seeking employment.

New monthly survey data from the Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University in Boston find that during the first four months of 2009, 49.9% of the nation's 4 million college graduates age 25 and younger were working in jobs that required a college degree. That's down from 54% for the same period last year.

"I've never seen it this low, and we've been analyzing this stuff for over 20 years," center director Andrew Sum said.

The problem is most acute in the 25-and-younger age group among Asian female graduates and black and Hispanic male graduates.

The survey of 60,000 households found less than 30% of Asian female grads, 32% of Hispanic male grads and just more than 35% of young black male grads working in jobs that require a bachelor's degree.

Working below your level

Research has shown that college graduates who take jobs below their education level not only earn less but also can take years to match the earnings of graduates who land career-track employment upon graduation.

These so-called mal-employed workers also compound the unemployment problem by taking jobs that noncollege graduates and even high school students are often qualified to hold. ..........(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.freep.com/article/20090628/NEWS07/906280443/College+grads+getting+left+with+low-level+jobs

[virgogal]

1. We should all become plumbers.

[TheCowsCameHome]

2. As long as we aren't named 'Joe'

[Manifestor_of_Light]

3. This crap started thirty years ago.

Welcome to the Reagan years.

I have a doctorate and graduated in '85 and I have never had a job where I used it.

I earned a BA in '79 and never had a job where I used it.

THIS IS NOT NEW. Reagan, keeping wages and benefits DOWN.

[Kansas Wyatt]

8. The Democratic Party Leaders would be wise to....

Immediately STOP acting like Republicans, because the Republicans are the ones who got us in this mess to begin with and it started with Reagan.

For Christ's sake, someone please tell me that they are NOT going to just keep repeating the same failure.

If they are, then the Democratic Party has unfit and insane Leaders.

[Greyhound]

37. I would love to tell you that, but my dear, dead mother taught me that lying was wrong.

We are left with only one party in this nation, The Corporate Party. There's the Republik wing for those with money and no empathy, and the Democratic Wing for those with money and no sense of responsibility.

In this way we can continue to generate the illusion of choice to keep them on their sofas while we do what we have planned to do since we decided to get out of here 40 years ago.

"But what about people without money?" you may ask. Fuck them, let them join whoever they want, they don't have any money!

[mike_c]

11. to be fair, there are lots of folks with different experiences....

I got my doctorate about ten years later and didn't even finish the first year of a post-doc before I got a tenure track job (and had multiple offers, too). Many of my classmates had similar experiences. I'm working in precisely the field I trained for, and consider my Ph.D. one of the best life decisions I've ever made.

When I was finishing grad school, the word on the street was that the projected tidal wave of retirements and university expansions was running behind schedule. I worked with a number of folks who had been on the post-doc treadmill for several years, trying to land permanent positions. Many of the ones I knew got jobs in their field at about the same time I did.

[Greyhound]

38. Lots of folks got screwed with their pants on, too.

The facts, and they always come out far too late to do anybody any good, are that most people get stuck with shit jobs and a ton of debt. The facts are that our government has decreed that we are expendable and employers are free to screw them in a wide variety of ways. And the final fact is that education is irrelevant in regards to whether you will "make it" in America.

I'm glad it worked out for you, but you're case is irrelevant in the overall. You got a PhD and went into academia at the right time, but that is mostly a matter of luck. I know several PhD.s (one from Yale) that work in the construction business because that was what they could get and they didn't "marry well" or know somebody.

It really rankles when someone like you comes into a discussion and says, however politely or obliquely, "I made it, so there must be something wrong with you".

Horatio Alger wrote fiction. It was fiction then and it is fiction now. The history of our nation, since shortly after winning our independence, is one of most people failing and a few winning and fabulous PR.

You are lucky, be grateful and never forget it.

[Greyhound]

64. Oh what? No reply? Why not?

Hit too close to home? Afraid that admitting that you are no better than anybody else will somehow diminish your undeserved sense of superiority?

You found time in your busy schedule to reply 19 times today, but nothing here, hmmm.

Why am I not at all surprised...
:eyes:

[hfojvt]

34. I got my Bad Attitude in 1985

Got a career-track job in November. My major was math and my job title was mathematician, but I wasn't really 'using' my degree.

After I quit that job in 1986 I have been unable to find another college level job, with the exception of graduate school, which paid $6,000 a year and part-time college instructor which paid $8,100. Even in 1990 that was not a lot of money.

But this did not start either with Reagan or because of him. I read that even in the 1970s college graduates were taking entry-level jobs at Ford plants.

[RobinA]

49. Tell Me About It

I graduated with a BS in 1980. Didn't use it until 1986. I got a Masters in 2006 and didn't use it until I got a promotion one week ago - probably because I was up against all people with Bachelors. The job, meanwhile, does not require a Masters. Whenever I went for a job that required a Masters I lost out to doctorates. I said no way to the doctorate for just this reason. Too much money for the pay. I'll do it when I win the lottery, because I really want the education.

[supernova]

4. Oh cry me a river

I never got paid very well until my late 30s. I could only ever get low level jobs for many years. And yes, I'm a college graduate. With a B.A. in English. And no liberal arts jokes about "you want fries with that?"

I've heard them all already.

I was, as they say in the acting profession, "typecast" as an admin assistant and it was a role I found very hard to break out of. No one ever told me that once I took a job like that that people would resist seeing me any other way. In fact, I got laughed at on more than one occasion for daring to suggest that I could be more useful to my employer.

[virgdem]

15. I'm in the same boat you are..

graduated in 1974 during the "Nixon" recession, and took a job that I was vastly over qualified for. It is hard to break out of the "pink collar" ghetto, so I had a succession of crappy jobs until the advent of computers in the mid 80's. I was qualified for admin assistant positions, and worked in that field until 1994, when I started my own business, where I finally used my English degree to write resumes. It's very easy to get stuck in low paying jobs that are beneath ones own educational level. I know - I lived it.

[readmoreoften]

17. Nothing like solidarity with people as fucked over as you are.

:sarcasm:

Since you relate, maybe you shouldn't be so callous and be glad the story is getting some coverage. What, the newest generation of fucked-over people are the folks who deserve your anger? :eyes:

[WildEyedLiberal]

33. Thank you

Jesus Christ.

[PVnRT]

44. Of course, because younger generations are whiny brats addicted to their iPhones

I think you need to get off of someone's lawn.








:sarcasm:

[fishwax]

51. what you said

:thumbsup:

[RobinA]

54. The Problem is Not

that young people deserve to be screwed because we were screwed, it's that this is all reported like it is new news. We endured years of hearing how people were coming out of college making gazillions at the brokerage or law firm, and this was just passed off as normal, when we had to fight summers for a job at McDonalds, and now that we are through those aberrant times, isn't it horrible how recent college grads can't afford BMWs anymore. Hey, we sympathize, we've been there, but how about not reporting like this is something new. The sarcasm and bad attitudes aren't directed at the grads, it's the reporting.

[rockymountaindem]

61. It is new

When it's happening to another generation, it's new. It's a continuation of a trend we'd like to see die off.

[arcadian]

20. bootstraps?

[RobinA]

50. This Is Exactly

why I refused, adamantly refused, to take typing in high school. (I'm a girl, you see.) I did not plan to have a job typing, and from what I could see in the '70's, the best way for a female to avoid a job typing was to not learn to type. I know more intelligent, educated women my age who wound up typing as a fallback and got mired forever. Sadly, I do know how to use and replace the toner in a copier, which has not served me well, but by and large I have been able to stay out of the office, thank god.

[JerseygirlCT]

68. Sounds familiar

And I had to start at the beginning, as it were, in order to find a career and build it - by doing the scut work, by learning as I did and working hard. I've found a way to use that BA - it taught me to write well and think critically - the hardest part was finding a career that made use of it.

[wellst0nev0ter]

5. Well At Least I'm Not Alone

Especially condidering the black male graduates, Holy cats!

[Iggo]

6. They've got jobs?

Yay!

[glowing]

7. Its been happening for years. College education is a joke to many who've walked the hallowed halls.

The real world doesn't want to pay for education.. and now competition with H1B visa'd persons is even harder. college needs to be a free path.

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. All this talk about the value of an education means shit.

This is a piss poor country with shit opportunities. Unless your old man owns a business or you are struck by lightning & invent something that microsoft needs to buy you are going to be working for Hardees.

[OhioChick]

10. That's the fucking truth. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

12. Yep - complete bullshit...

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/06/unemployment-rate-and-level-of.html

[ChromeFoundry]

22. Oh, Don't even bother showing the 2009 data!

Jan-08 is the data you posted, where Doctoral degrees are at 2% unemployment.
Jan-09 is a much different story... where Doctoral degrees are at 4% unemployment (200% higher than your graph).
Jun-09 show this trend gaining even more traction, by bumping the figure to 5%, (250% higher than your graph).

True, there are more less-educated workers standing in unemployment lines... but if 5% of Doctoral degrees are out of work, what does that do for competition for the ~25 year-old looking to attain a job?

P.S. Why is every snarky-ass post from you a hit-n-run, offering nothing more than a turd garnished with Spam? Are you really that lonely inside your poor, pathetic, miserable little mind? I've actually searched on you to see if I could find ANYTHING formulated by you that represented something adjacent to worth while, for nothing more than to curb my curiosity. I was not able to find anything where you tried to help, educate or congratulate someone else for any reason. It must suck being so lonely that the only way you can feel vainglorious is by attempting to piss on someone else's discussion...maybe you just didn't get enough love when you were young.

[OhioChick]

23. (facepalm)

:rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

26. 1) 2% ---> 4% is a 100% increase. 2) Oh noes 4% unemployment....

3) BWAHAHAAHAAA!!!!

[ChromeFoundry]

28. About your comprehension skills...

Here.. let's make this simple for you...

If you have $2.00... and next year I have $2.00... that is 100% of what I had last year.
If you have $4.00 next year, that is 200%... (two dollars times two point zero zero is four point zero zero).
$5.00 is 250% of $2.00.

Did you notice the wording "200% higher than your graph" and "250% higher than your graph"?

Stop me if I am going too fast for you, m-kay? Did you sniff a lot of model glue in your youth?
I can get one of those high-school drop outs that are out of work to tutor you if you like.

[BlooInBloo]

29. (facepalm) "of" = multiplication. "increase", "higher than", etc. = addition.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ChromeFoundry]

31. Didn't you once say you were a teacher? LOL

And didn't it have something to do with Math?

let's try this again....

$5.00 is 250% of $2.00.

This can be broken down from an English phrase to a mathematical equation like so:

$5.00 = (250%) * $2.00

for the sake of readability.. this is the same problem:

$2.00 * (250%) = $5.00
$2.00 * 2.50 = $5.00

You are now on your way to learning what the big kids know! I'm proud of you Bloo, you my boy!

Next lesson is hooked on phonics. Stay tuned! Oh, Bloo, you can be excused.. we don't want to fill up that brain of yours... you my forget to breath.

[BzaDem]

62. You are completely wrong, and BlooInBloo is completely right.

Your "math lesson" is completely missing the point.

Yes, $4.00 is 200% of $2.00. But it is a 100% increase from $2.00. Do you understand the difference? The word "increase" means the difference between the old and the new. Just like if I have 2 apples and I later have 5, that is an increase of 3 apples.

In this case, a 4% unemployment represents a 100% increase from 2% unemployment. It at the same time is 200% of the original 2% figure. You are mixing up the definition of "of" and "increase from."

[LooseWilly]

36. Proud to be dragging down the median for bachelor's degrees...

There was a time that I approached that weekly earnings driving a taxi... but those 6 months passed... and I'm back to dragging the median down... down ... down...

At this point, I've become convinced that a BA in the humanities just means that employers think you might think too much... so they want no part of you... and they call it 'overqualification'...

Maybe I'm just bitter.

[RobinA]

55. I'm Not Going to Argue

that education doesn't pay, but I'd like to know where they get these numbers. My weekly pay is more at the associate degree level and I have a Masters and am working in my field. I know of no Associates holders who make even the crap I make.

[mike_c]

13. I'm sorry you feel that way, but it simply isn't always true....

Look, I came from a solidly blue-collar background. Never finished high school-- not even close. I'm the only one in my family who went to college. Received zero support from the family for doing it. Hell, they despise science that conflicts with their fundy worldview, and becoming a biologist was tantamount to embracing the devil. It took me until my early 30s to get into college, and until 40 to get my doctorate.

I have exactly the job I wanted and trained for. I love the work I do. I NEVER had anything close to an inside track into my current profession and the life I live. Yet here I am, because it really is possible to create your own opportunities if you work for it and get a good education.

The dark cloud to my silver lining is that I had to mortgage my future to do it. I won't work long enough to pay back the student loans, and unless things change in that regard, I'll retire to homelessness and poverty. But that's not because there aren't opportunities-- it's because greedy rat bastards will wring a profit out of anyone's dreams they can.

Don't discourage people from striving to achieve their dreams, if they can achieve them through education and intellectual prowess. I think that's one of the most pure and holy dreams left in capitalist America.

[The_Casual_Observer]

14. You took a giant ass risk & it sort of panned out, sort of. Why does it have to

be this way? You have had to leverage your future & have a Phd still have no peace of mind. This is all shit.

[mike_c]

18. but I'm quite happy with my "shit" life....

..and unless you have a better measure of success, I'll go on being pretty happy it worked out this way. I mean, what more could I really ask for? I have a fulfilling career and a job that I enjoy, more often than not-- I would not trade it for ANY of the things I've done before.

The matter of having to leverage my future is completely different from your original contention that higher education has no future to offer. I agree with you completely in that regard. It sucks utterly.

But I'll tell you what-- I'd do it again in a skinny minute if I had a do-over. Before I went to college and grad school, the only commodity of any value I had to offer was my TIME. Chunks of my life that employers rented for subsistence wages. My LIFE, dammit! I sold it to buy groceries and pay the rent.

Arguably, I still do, but I'm HAPPY with the terms, now, and the way I spend that bartered time interests me. It keeps me alive.

I'd say it "panned out" remarkably well. That's my experience, at least. Your mileage evidently varies considerably.

[The_Casual_Observer]

24. Brother Mike, I am talking about right now, newly minted graduates,

I know 10 kids that graduated from top schools this year. NOTHING, no jobs. It wasn't like this before. EVER.

You are older, more experience, knew what to do. It's a different game for the kids. It's impossible now.

[mike_c]

27. that's really terrible....

We've hired several new folks during the last couple of years (at my institution). Another DUer remarked down thread that the situation is better in the sciences, as well, and that's where all my experience is. Best of luck to your friends!

On edit-- one other note: all but a couple of the grad students I've graduated during the last 10 years is working in their field, including two that graduated last semester (although there are a couple that I haven't kept in touch with so I can't be sure about all of them-- but their overall success rate seems pretty good to me).

[TwixVoy]

16. It is BECOMING true

Take a look around. General Motors was all about screwing over the last union strong hold in this country. At GM anyone with a high school education could apply for a job, work hard, and make a middle class income.

Then what happened? The fucking republicans went on TV and declared that making 50K a year was FAR TOO MUCH MONEY, that they didn't "deserve" it, and that they are the reason GM must declare bankruptcy. Now GM workers make 10 fucking dollars an hour.

It is slowly getting to the point that unless you have highly technical skills coming out of your ass, some kind of prodigy talent level, or connections you are fucked.

[mike_c]

21. well, I certainly don't have any "connections...."

I'd argue that acquiring "highly technical skills" is what higher education is partly about, at least if you consider learning to be an effective scientist "technical." I don't think it is, frankly-- it's just another manifestation of intellectualism, turned toward asking and answering questions about nature. Problem solving and puzzle working, really.

I also don't have any "prodigy level talent." At all.

[tomreedtoon]

42. "Highly technical skills" don't mean anything.

In my town, I'm among about 30 people laid off from TV stations that had those "highly technical skills." We can't get hired. Soon I may end up flipping burgers or delivering pizzas.

At least I didn't fall for the "highly technical skill" of computer IT. There are hundreds of thousands of people with IT certification that were going to be involved with computers and big companies. Now all those jobs are being outsourced to India...thanks to the computers that those IT guys built.

And as far as those "B.A. in English" degrees, those are freaking worthless. So you can write or express yourself beautifully. So what? Writing is no longer a paid profession. It is a hobby. Look at all the stuff written beautifully on DU. Do you think anybody made a dime on it?

Learn how to replace a toilet, rebuild a car engine, anything like that. Forget college. College is a lie, and teachers and educators are just as self-serving and full of lies as anyone on Wall Street.

[mike_c]

57. damn, you're talking about my LIFE as "self-serving and full of lies...."

I got an education because I believed in the intrinsic value of intellectualism and the society of intellectuals. I'm REALLY happy with the results. You remind me of the Khmer Rouge, killing intellectuals in their attempt to reproduce a society of lowest common demoninators. When did the democratic party become so anti-intellectual? I thought that was the province of the worst of the republican base.

[tomreedtoon]

65. I'm just speaking truth, which intellectuals don't want to hear.

One of the most tragic aspects of being a progressive is seeing intellectuals issue statements to each other, and hear the responses..."Great post," "this is insightful," "brilliant." Meanwhile, the people they NEED to reach never read these brilliant words of wit and derision, because the intellectuals never want to talk to people INFERIOR to them.

This is why progressive policies never pass, and why the Republicans (who aren't afraid to talk common or dumb or just plain stupid) have maintained control, and why Democrats are still deathly afraid of them.

The fact is that writing is no longer a paid profession. I can point to all the posts on DU with beautiful ideas and clever turns of phrase...that earns the writers NOTHING. And the same is true of online writers, who are paid perhaps two cents a month for submitting articles to things like Salon and Huffington Post.

Your generation, my generation, and several generations were told that wearing a coat and tie, never getting our hands dirty, and supervising people was the only honorable path in life. Along with those degrees we were given classist prejudice; a car mechanic or a plumber was worthless compared to an executive in an Armani suit.

We were lied to. And now, with those white-collar jobs getting discarded, we are learning the hard way how wrong we were. A car mechanic will always find work and people willing to pay for it. A BA in English who can write a detailed proposal is a leach on society, and can easily be plucked out and thrown in the trash.

Does that make it any clearer for you, bunky?

[PVnRT]

69. So now "intellectuals" is a bad word

Maybe you could add "pointy-headed" or "ivory tower" onto that as well. Might as well go all the way.

Or maybe no one should pursue education at all and be happy cutting grass and fixing cars all day. That's what True Liberals would do!

[tomreedtoon]

75. Intellectuals should be called "ineffectuals."

They believe their magic mind powers and knowledge of Proust make them aristocrats. Funny, the guys who ran GM into the ground were intellectuals and aristocrats too.

[readmoreoften]

19. And more people's stories go like this: go into debt, work for less than minimum wage as an adjunct.

10 years ago, only 20% of people with Ph.D.s outside the maths and sciences EVER landed tenure-track positions (and that's not even making tenure...) Now the situation is completely dire and many working-class students have been suckered into massive debt (I know one Ph.D. who racked up over 160K after her department collapsed (no fault of her own) and she had to start over. Many working class kids who took a shot at "believing in themselves"are now nothing but a cheap labor reserve for the new "enterprise universities" where 80% of all new hires are adjunct labor. Not to mention a moving target for everyone back home who get a real kick out of their failures.

And with the economy the way it is, a lot of folks are going "back to school" to "pursue their dreams." God help us all under this system.

[mike_c]

25. I'll take your word for it, but my experience is different....

First, I'm a scientist, so maybe that's part of the reason my experience is different-- you specifically excluded math and science. I'm an academic scientist, so I'm familiar with the trend toward hiring more and more non-tenure-track lecturers at low academic rank-- essentially itinerant profs-- but relatively few of the classmates that I've kept track of ended up in that position.

In my own department we have hired nearly two dozen tenure-track faculty during the last 12 years-- I've been on quite a few of the hiring committees-- and we have not hired more than a couple of low rank lecturers who were otherwise qualified for tenure-track jobs. We work really hard to NOT go there, and we've been pretty successful. In the few instances when we have, it's mostly been for temporarily covering positions that are not really permanent anyway.

Again, though, I can't speak for other academic disciplines. All I can say is that my own experience has been VERY rewarding and fulfilling, and I believe the same is true for most of my immediate colleagues.

[JerseygirlCT]

72. Well said, Mike nt

[TransitJohn]

48. Wish I could rec your reply here.

It's so articulate and succinct, and I agree totally.

[JerseygirlCT]

71. Not if you value an education for its own sake

I never looked at college as the path to a career. (Yes, liberal arts). I saw it, and my parents did, as necessary training for a well-rounded, well-educated person. And it was.

I didn't connect what I'd learned to a career until a little later - and then found that I'd actually had just the preparation I needed - not for the nuts and bolts side of the job, but for the more important things: communicating well - especially in writing, connecting to the people I worked with, thinking both creatively and critically.

I had friends at school who were business majors - they were indeed preparing for a career. I hope they found it satisfying. But that wasn't, to me, the purpose of my education.

[SoCalDem]

30. My daughter in law took college on in an unusual way. she went to Cosmetology school first

She then used the cosmetology license to put herself through school without piling on debt. She graduated with a degrees in Business Administration & something else (I forget)..

From about yr 2 of her cosmetology "career", she was making $40K or more, and was even in some competitions (one in Australia..all expenses paid)..

She has applied EVERYWHERE, and sent out bazillions of resumes since college and has NOT found a job. but she's making plenty at her "other job", and has the flexibility of making her own schedule. She works at a very nice spa, and with tips she made $65K last year, and usually works only 3 days a week.

She knows that the economy will affect her future earnings, if it gets worse, but so far she has weathered the storm, and she may never "use" her degree (officially). They have just passed their one year anniversary, are buying a house, and they want a family, so all her hard work getting that degree, has changed little for her. I see the confidence it gave her, though:)

[Creena]

35. Smart DIL!

I'm going back to school at 24, after taking care of my disabled mother for six years. I'm planning to become a registered veterinary technician before transferring to a four-year. I like the idea of attending vet school, but I also like Middle Eastern studies. If I couldn't find a career with what ever path I chose, I would at least have a skill set usually needed in any area.

[mamaleah]

52. That's a smart young woman! nt

[SoCalDem]

56. and she's gorgeous too.. My son has great taste (pic)

[mamaleah]

63. Such a lovely young lady!

You are a very lucky MIL to have a great son and DIL!

[KillCapitalism]

32. The market crash only made the situation worse.

Many in the boomer generation lost over 50% of what they had worked all their lives for in the recent market debacle.

Now, because of this many of them won't be retiring anytime soon. In fact, some will probably only leave their jobs for good in a body bag. Add to this outsourcing of IT and other industries plus H1-B's and you have a perfect storm of unemployment/underemployment of college grads. There are just simply not enough jobs for everyone participating in the workforce.

[Pharlo]

39. I graduated with a BBA from a small liberal arts

college in 1981. After I graduated, I FINALLY found a job in manufacturing as unskilled labor - pay was terrible, but I was happy to have a job. It seemed like I was paying off student loans forever - for an education I never really used - at least not 'professionally'.

Eventually, the company I was working for paid for my second degree - a BS this time. A degree, that became critical to me for employment purposes.

However, even during the days of vegging out assembling small appliances, feeling my brain atrophy - knowing I was not using my high priced education (private college) and feeling like I never would, I still would not have done it any differently.

While 'future earnings potential' is THE reason to go to college, I found that, in the end, the education itself was the single most important factor.

Knowing what I do now - that I would never use THAT particular degree in a professional capacity and how long it would take me to pay back that debt, I would do it all over again. I have found that broad based liberal arts education to be that valuable to me.

If I had to give up one of my degrees, it would be the BS - the one that I use professionally, not the liberal arts BBA.

My point, sometimes, there is more to an education than 'future earnings potential'. The problem is, you don't realize it until years later. God knows I did enough bitching about having to take some of those 'non major related' courses at the time.

[LuckyLib]

47. You said it well. I'm telling my college attending daughter the same thing.

It's not about job preparation, as the world is changing so fast that unless you are laser-focused on a profession (nursing, vet medicine, accounting) you need to be well educated to take advantage of the opportunities that come along. Plain and simple. It's the journey.

[BR_Parkway]

40. Funny that there's no discussion at all that maybe folks were sold

a bill of goods about needing to get an advanced degree to be successful (and I'm not even talking about the idea that we've screwed ourselves over confusing success in life as success in our work).

A lot of comments about "employers don't want to pay for educated people" - doesn't that come down to what they got educated in? Businesses are about making money - if someone got a degree in a field like chemistry and they develop new products for a business, then they probably do get paid accordingly. But some of the degrees available would have a hard time making a case for most employers to get any additional value out of it because they're either so specialized and only relate to a handful of jobs out there or simply don't add any value to a position that a person without a degree could do equally well.

That's not to say that qualified individuals here aren't losing jobs to cheaper workers overseas or even workers imported under some of these visas.

[LeftinOH]

41. Old news (very old news). Welcome to the real world, kids. n/t

[cbdo2007]

43. entrepreneurship (sp?) is mostly dead in America

There are plenty of opportunites out there for college grads to find a service in the marketplace that can be done better and to start their own company and do it.

It doesn't take a lot of money. It takes a desire to work hard and succeed at whatever your idea is.

[PVnRT]

45. Funniest post I've read all day (n/t)

[Kat45]

58. ANd hope they never get sick or injured because they won't have health insurance

[cbdo2007]

66. why won't they have health insurance?

[Ikonoklast]

73. I can tell from this reply you've never practiced what you preach.

I'm one of those entrepreneurs you are talking about, and I put every last red cent I could beg, borrow, or steal into my business.

Paying for my own health care was waaaaaaay down the list, for many a year. That is a big factor against people going into business for themselves, the lack of affordable health care.

[cbdo2007]

74. I'm one of those entrepreneurs I'm talking about also...

and one of the first things I did when I started my business was make sure my family and I were covered.

[Rex]

46. You are taking jobs away from the working poor and teens!

How dare you work at Jack in the Box!

[mamaleah]

53. Perhaps instead of just preaching, "go to college"

guidance counselors ought to be preaching, "Go to college for a degree that means something more than you spent 4-6 years partying". Or, "Work while you go to school instead of getting buried by loans or choose your loans wisely because yes they will want their money after school!".

Or even, "don't expect to be a millionaire just because you have a degree. So do the other graduates at Nordstrom".

[Kat45]

59. I graduated over 30 years ago, have an advanced degree, and always had low level jobs

This is nothing new. Currently unemployed after my last job was eliminated, I'm most likely looking toward an even lower level, lower paying job--if I can even get one.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

60. College Degree

I graduated undergrad with a BA in political Science back in 2000. I then went on to complete my Master's in Public Administration in 2002. After being unemployed for 9 months, I was able get a job with the Social Security Administration as a claims representative. I am now working as a Security Analyst for SSA. While I was in school, I served in the United States Marine Corps reserves. I think my military experience helped me get in to the federal government and is now helping me move up through the ranks.

College was great, but I think I learned more about life and work ethics in the military. That is always an option for people who are struggling in the civilian world.

P.S. I did a stint in Iraq back in 2003 which did not impact me negatively at all.

[JerseygirlCT]

67. That's the way it worked when I graduated in '82 as well

no jobs. I grabbed a stinker that I happened on, paid all of 9700 a year. And I had to commute from an hour away into NYC. You took whatever you could get then.

In a strange way, this might be a useful experience for some of these new grads. I found, later on, a great many who thought themselves far above starting in a starting position and learning a job. Too many tasks were below them, in their minds. That didn't sit well with me!

[EndersDame]

70. I have always worked with college grads at retail jobs and was glad I am not in debt

I have taken a couple of community college classes and am currently on an Academic hiatus. until i can find a way to pay either with my own cash or scholarships. I would love to go to college and learn for learnings sake