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Esquire interviews Howard Dean. He says the Senate is "self-destructing."

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:28 AM
Original message
Esquire interviews Howard Dean. He says the Senate is "self-destructing."
Howard Dean: Private Health Care Is Breaking Our Economy

ESQ: One thing I've never seen before is when you say, "Much is made of the 47 million without insurance, but nothing of the 25 million who have insurance but don't go and see the doctor." I've got one of those high-deductible catastrophic plans myself, so I don't go to the doctor unless I'm bleeding. Why have I never seen this argument before?

HD: Because 99 percent of the discussions among reporters, policy wonks, and politicians focus on the uninsured — which is, frankly, why nothing is passed. They don't focus on the majority of Americans who have health insurance that doesn't work.


Dean mentions that the private sector can't handle costs, and the interviewer asks why.

HD: Because there is no feedback in the private health-care system. When I was practicing medicine, nobody with substernal chest pain ever got off my examining table and said, "The guy down the street does it for $2,000 cheaper, I'll see you later." That's why we've had 40 years of costs that increase between two and three times the rate of inflation every single year. It's breaking our economic system. People are yelling and screaming about jobs going to China, but they're not yelling and screaming about jobs going to Canada. But they are. Because the right-wingers can scream and yell about rationing if they want, but economically their system works much better than ours does.


The interviewer mentions the high number who would enroll in the public option and asks if that is a concern. Dean does not go easy on the Senate. He says they are in the process of self-destructing.

ESQ: But isn't that a threat to the insurance companies? Especially at a time when we want to keep businesses healthy and people employed?

HD: This is one of the many problems the Senate is now having. They are focused on anything but the American people. But the insurance companies will be fine. It won't happen overnight, and they'll make plenty of money. But this is not a matter of making the insurance companies happy. This is a matter of making the 72 percent of the people who want a public option happy, including the 50 percent of Republicans who want a public option.

ESQ: Fifty percent of Republicans want a public option?

HD: Yeah. That's in a Kaiser poll and in a New York Times/CBS poll last week. The Senate is in the process of self-destructing. They are talking about managing health-care reform to make sure that a relatively small sliver of American industry is satisfied at the expense of 72 percent of their constituents. That's unbelievable.


I am getting very uneasy about how few powerful stands are being taken by our Democratic leaders on this issue.

I think Howard Dean was right when he said it would be a "catastrophic problem for the Democratic Party if they can’t get this bill out."

The star of the show Thursday was Dean, the former Vermont governor, who took the stage to raucous cheers. Dean fired a shot across the bow to Democratic lawmakers not committed to including the public option as part of healthcare reform.

“We are here; we’re not going away. We voted for change a few months ago. We expect change. And if we don’t get it, there’s going to be more change,” said Dean.

Success on healthcare reform is a must for Democrats, Dean told The Hill. “I think it’s going to be a catastrophic problem for the Democratic Party if they can’t get this bill out.”


We have a majority that would enable us to get a good health care bill passed. We need to get out of the "bipartisan" "post partisan" mode and get it done.








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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
50. If our current dems don't get us National HC ins. doesn't mean we'll vote for repubs
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Just means we'll try to get better dems elected and make centrists dems work harder
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Necessity demands a public option and soon single payer will prevail.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Wa Post reports HC lobbyists spending $1.4 mil/day to block public option
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. $1.4 mil/day...in the senate and congress. Time to end their profiteering from denying care
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #55
63. That $1.4 million a day are our premium dollars that are not going for
the insurance coverage we paid them for.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. I talk to myself when I'm alone, too...
breaks up the silence...
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #65
105. You too?
Makes ya feel better, huh? Especially when you win your own arguments.
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tex-wyo-dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #53
70. you know, i don't think I could put it better...
The pulic option and, ultimately, single payer is a NECESSIIY...just as counteracting climate change now is a necessity, just as me needing to breathe to live is a frickin' necessity!
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. i thought dissent was always good
doesn't that count in congress too?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Ask all those people without jobs and health care.
Sure, go ahead and let them vote with the small minority of the rich who donate to them. Let them see what happens when people sit on their butts in 2010 and 2012.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. i was being sarcastic
If we want to make progress we must work together instead of toward our own self interest. This goes for congress as well.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. Catastrophic is right.
We have a clear mandate... there is no excuse but greed / fealty to the insurance industry.
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wildflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. I really appreciate his honesty
It is sorely needed. I hope someone in the Senate is listening.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. So do I.
I think the senate is a lost cause for now. I wish it were not.
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stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
64. An honest doctor is always a good doctor... and always needed.
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
6. It's time for the Senators to take the floor and 'Shame' their fellow Senators for ....
.... taking the massive amounts of $$ from the 350 healthcare lobbyists spending $1.4mil a day to derail healthcare reform.

Take the floor, read out the amounts taken by the Senators who are obstructing real reform, and tell it like it is --they have abandoned their own constituents for the sake of lining their own campaign contributions coffers.

Inexcusable.

And then tell them there will be a chorus of colleagues who will help challengers take their seats when they come up for reelection.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. 'They don't focus on the majority of Americans who have health insurance that doesn't work.'
I'm glad Howard Dean made that point.

The movie "Sicko" was about people who have insurance but get so little help from the insurance company that they're bankrupted when they get a serious illness.

Buy the "Sicko" DVD if you don't have it. If you saw the movie in theaters, there is 80 minutes of bonus material on the Special Edition.
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WorseBeforeBetter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. K&R (n/t)


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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
9. Ouch. "including the 50 percent of Republicans who want a public option"
Are you listening, Oh Great Democratic Leadership?
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
11. As always Dr Dean hits the heart
of the matter with truth and wisdom. k/r
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abumbyanyothername Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
12. Howard Dean was the architect of the new Dem wave.
I would like to hear him speak out on food supply issues also.

The health care bill is a disaster and as currently drafted, I suggest a no vote.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
13. In my 40 years of political activism....
...there has NEVER been an issue as Black vs White as the current Health Care Reform.
The Democratic Party will reveal without any ambiguity who they are working for.
If The Democratic Party is successful at fucking up Health Care Reform, they will lose my vote forever, and I'll take as many with me as I can.

I used to ridicule Middle Class Republicans who voted against their own economic interests.
I won't be joining their ranks.


K&R
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. They are going to screw it up out of fear of losing donations.
.
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Danascot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Democracy for America is doing great work on this
Please support them if you can.

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. Yes, they are.
And we do support them.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
47. If we don't get it. Draft Howard Dean for 2012.
I'll work for him again!
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info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #13
89. I'm coming right with you
Well said.
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
101. wow; your last two sentences really bring it home.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
16. IS there any doubt that Dr. Dean scared our corporate overlords far more than Obama?
I admire Dean for his courage, intelligence and commitment to real public service.
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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Agreed. n/t
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Irreverend IX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
60. Why do you think the "Dean scream" got replayed so many times?
They could have torn down Obama the same way, but they didn't. We have a kinder, gentler form of political assassination now - assassination by media.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #60
72. I was just thinking the same thing as I pondered if Dean had been appointed to anything by Obama...
All I can remember is that Dean is part of the DNC? Is that right?
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
62. Howard Dean is fearless
No one owns him, and he is not afraid to speak his mind. I always admired and respected Dr. Dean, but never more than when he said "I hate Republicans and everything they stand for."

The Dems in the Senate should listen to him because he knows the health care industry from the inside out. But, if history is any indication, they will continue to ignore the facts staring them in the face.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
18. "Error: You've already recommended that thread."
50% of Republicans can't stomach the greed that is killing their loved ones...is this some sort of a first??? And still, our Gov't refuses to deliver for us. So much for, "By the people, for the people..."
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
19. When a deliberative body self-destructs, it's the leadership to blame
Every body, board, committee or what-have-you faces conflict. Everyone has differing agendas, priorities and interests. It's up to leadership to do the hard work and heavy lifting of satisfying some people, disappointing others, and forging an agreement out of those disparate interests. Harry Reid is either not up to the job at hand, or as Dr. Dean surmises is looking to appease a small sliver of industry at the expense of 72% of his constituents.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
20. If the Dems screw it up like it looks like they have a good chance of doing
I believe that Howard Dean could rise once again as the leader of the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party, but I hope he takes it further and doesn't confine himself to being a wing of an ineffectual Party that ignores their constituency.

“We are here; we’re not going away. We voted for change a few months ago. We expect change. And if we don’t get it, there’s going to be more change,” said Dean.

Yep.
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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
21. I've met Dean...
He told me that single-payer is very unlikely, and that the Senate is basically spineless.

Thanks for the thread.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
22. This "bi-partisan" thing is making me sick...
Why/ Why can't we get something passed without worrying about the Repubs? I just don't understand.

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Ardent15 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Because the Rethugs, despite being a minority, still have significant influence...
..over the media, over people, and over industry (the last one is also vice versa).
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. That may be true, but
I still think the Dems need to man-up, so to speak, and do the right thing.

If the RW isn't screeching about health care, they'll be frothing about Obama using a TelePrompter. :eyes: As Roseann Roseannadana used to say, "It's always something!"

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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. it has NOTHING to do with the Republicans, not one fucking thing.
The only significant factor in this disgusting clusterfuck is the corrupt Democratic party servicing the same financial interests that the Republicans do. Now that the Republicans are chopped into tiny pieces it's the Democrats sole responsibility to preserve the ability of the financial-insurance complex to feast off the death and disease of the American people.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. RIGHT ON, KENNY!!! That is exactly right.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
76. Man have you hit the nail on the head Kenny.
Our government is more comfortable supporting Monsanto and subsidizing untested GMO and cheap non-nutritive Corn for the masses than it is concerned about the failing health of it's people.

Poppa Bush Started it, Bill Clinton rolled with it and latched onto the tit of Free Trade and Globalization, Bush just plain abused it without a second thought, and now Obama, coerced by having the same crew that Bill Clinton fostered, are feasting again on the crumbs.

Goverment is fucking broken. When are people just going to say enough, and stop shuffling to work like drones, with the stale carrot dangling in front of them, forever out of reach?

Screw that noise. With the appointment of Michael Taylor to the USDA on Monday, I no longer have any confidence that the US. Government as it exists today will be able to control the violent revolt that they are bringing upon themselves.

I am looking for a true patriot to support, like Dean and Kucinich. Obama and his corrupted Corporate America can go take a long walk of a short pier. It is finally over for me, my wife, and all my friends. This administration has taken it to far, and is not going to have to ante up or fold.





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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
104. Ain't Gonna Happen!! I've Almost Concluded That The Democrats Are
either SCARED & SPINELESS or in the same pockets as Repukes! I have finally really seen the writing on the wall and I'm scared to death!

DE-MOCK-CRAZY!! Surreal & SICK!!!
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howmad1 Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #23
81. Not to mention.......
....all the dirt they picked up on dems thanks to warrentless wiretaps during the bush administration. Oh to be a fly on the wall of the rethuglican war room where all this information is kept.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
25. Dean answers why premiums would be lower under public option
"ESQ: You say that average premiums would be 23 percent lower in the public plan. Could you explain how they can achieve that level of efficiency without subsidizing it?

HD: I'm going to use Medicare as an example because it is a public plan. About 4 percent of every dollar that goes into Medicare is spent on administration. In the private sector, that number is between 12 percent and 50 percent. That's because of return on equity, very high CEO salaries, advertising, and general administration. But you don't have return on equity in a public plan, and there doesn't have to be advertising, and the people who run it aren't going to be making $20 million a year. They are probably making less than $200,000 a year. And that's before you get to cost controls.

Read more: http://www.esquire.com/the-side/richardson-report/howard-dean-interview-health-care-070709#ixzz0Kb70g0OT&C
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
26. That 60 vote majority is like a BIG flashlight.
Slimy DINO'S can't hide under their
rocks now.

ALL of us have to turn their rocks
over and expose them, it can't just
be Dr. Dean.

www.standwithdrdean.com

I will donate money to any Republican
Senator who votes for health care
reform that includes a REAL PUBLIC OPTION.

I am waiting, however, for "public option"
to morph into mush, they will co-opt the
phrase and use it to hide behind.
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diane in sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
27. I think it's time for the people to start getting very involved in the Dem primaries.
There are a bunch of senators we should get rid of. Feinstein would be my first pick--she's really a Repuke--only votes Dem on women's issues and gun control.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. I think so, too.
We can only overcome the big money by big activism and small donations.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #27
78. DiFi is definately a ChickenHawk Military vendor stooge.
Despite her looks, she it truly a repulsive capitalist.
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diane in sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
28. The big problem is, of course, how we fund our elections. The threatened supreme
court hearing/ruling to revoke all controls on corporate "free speech" (money dumping) would make this even worse. In appointing the people they did, I'm sure the Repukes desired exactly this. The problem isn't wimpy Dems, the problem is that they are bought by the same corporations as the Repugs. It's why they don't speak out or try to change what is obvious to you and me. They have a vested interest in not trashing the sources of their electoral funding.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
80. The key is collapsing the Corporate funding at the source.
Stop being such predictable consumers. Stop falling for the rhetoric that "The Economy is Good!" or Now is the right time to buy!

The only real power is when the general public votes with their pocketbooks and causes tax revenues to utterly collapse.

The only way to do this is to stop working and lay down demands before one returns to work.

Of course, many people have to get over the fear of no income or a reduction in standard of living, but there are quite a few people that have actually extricated themselves from the fraudulent economic system, and are completely out of debt. These are the ones that can help support others if they choose to hold the feet of the government to the fire.

The people that talk about campaign finance reform are naieve. They fail to she that the Government can create money out of thin air, so the powers that be will always be able to have an unfair advantage.

If the economic reality is too big to hide with phony CPI numbers, unemployment statistic, or well planted stories in the media, then the fraud will collapse utterly.

Make no mistake, this is a huge undertaking. It will be a hard road, but people need to start thinking about it. I don't see any other non-violent way of bringing the cabal back under control, since they are at the command of Diplomatic, Information, Military and Economics means of manipulating the citizens. It may not be open warfare, but it is just as coercive and maipulative as a means of controlling a nation.






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rvablue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
29. Dr. Dean is a national treasure and a man of the people. Glad to see him speaking out!
Edited on Tue Jul-07-09 01:13 PM by rvablue
Dr. Dean not being in the administration heretofore was my only disappointment in the current Administration.

But now, I'm happy he is on the outside. His voice is a loud, calm, and sensible one on this issue and I think he can do a lot more good being a spokesperson of the people.
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
32. Howard Dean is right, once again.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
34. It occurs to me that this is a legitimate single issue.
Normally, I take a deeply dim, even disgusted, view of dingle-issue voters. Health care, however, is a true exception to this "rule".

Every last politician who isn't willing to put into place a public health care (note: NOT "health insurance") option that takes effect immediately upon passage (no ten-year trigger or other such malarky) deserves to lose their seat.

We're talking about our moms and sons and fathers and daughters and distant relative and friend and neighbors and co-workers here. Politicians who would turn their backs on our very lives deserve to at least lose their jobs in the next election.

I don't care what their voting records are. I don't care on which side of the aisle they sit. I don't care about their various committee assignments. i don't care about their charities. I don't care about one single speck of good they've ever done while in office. If they're against a public option, immediately in place and accessible to all individuals in America, well, they don't deserve my vote.

Period.
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. I'm with you on that. Now, how do we get everybody else onboard?
And when we do, how do we get the message to congress?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #34
49. This is life or death for many people.
Our hospitals are full to the brim with people seeking emergency care because they have a chronic problem but no insurance. Whether they receive treatment or not, they take the time and attention of the hospital -- which costs all of us a lot of money. And if they need treatment for a chronic condition (such as asthma) that is not available in the emergency room because the chronic condition is not really acute enough, they come back -- and ultimately their care costs us a lot.

That is to say nothing of people who have health care insurance, but it does not cover hospital bills or prescriptions. What good is that? Another money trap, because if you can't afford and therefore do not take prescribed medications, depending on the condition, you can end up in the emergency room. And the same cycle starts again and again.
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #34
91. In the mid-term I wonder if there will be any single issue
candidates? In Virginia they (not me) elected a rethug gov based on one issue only the "car tax". I wonder if around the country we couldn't challenge every one of our congress people with this issue and refuse to talk about anything else, no debates, just the health care drumroll, constant and unyielding?
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #91
96. Not me either. Jim ( One Bad Idea ) Gilmore. nt
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #34
95. Save the dingles!
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #34
100. +1
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
37. Instead of seeing headlines like "White House Open to Deal on Public Health Plan"
we should be seeing "White House Still Open to Deal on H.R. 676",

or "White House Still Working for Universal Coverage",

or "White House Caving to Pressure from Liberals on Creating a Just Health Care System",

or "White House Experts Talking with Cuba and Canada on Creating a Health Care System Concerned with Everyone's Health"

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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
38. K & R
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
39. That's right - blame Canada
Craftygal can't get an MRI is a reasonable amount of time because all the MRI technicians have moved to the States.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. So, we shouldn't have any trouble getting one then. We'll have a surplus.
I doubt that they'll move to Honduras or Mexico.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
40. K&R
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
41. God Bless!
:patriot:
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Lilyeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
42. Good stuff. Thanks for posting.
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quidam56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
43. politician$ & profit machine$
As a former health care giver, I am shocked and sad to see what is called quality health care in TN & VA. Clearly PROFIT CARE is more important than PATIENT CARE. We must have public option NOW. http://www.wisecountyissues.com/?p=62 How many more innocent people will die for greed ? The very health care system we trust and depend on keeping us healthy is infecting our communities with MRSA ( Methicillin Resistant Staphylococcus Aureas )
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Duval Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
44. K&R n/t
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
46. Excellent post. Thanks for keeping us up to date, Madflo.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
51. Here's another part of the problem.
It fits in with what Deans says about a guy never saying, "It's $2,000 cheaper down the road.

Karl Denninger is a libertarian more than anything else, but I enjoy a lot of his economic insights.

Health Reform: Who Are They Trying To Fool?

Health care "reform" is the current hot-button, with the Obama administration now talking about a "public" health-insurance system to "keep the system honest."

Uh huh.

Look folks, you want to know why we have the health cost problems we have? I'll lay it out for you - in a way you can't refute or argue with:

1. There are no published prices. In no other line of work is it legal to do this. Nowhere. You can't sell someone a hot dog and tell them after they eat it what it just cost them. You can't hire a lawyer and have him tell you "I'll tell you what this will cost when we're done." You can't hire an electrician and have him tell you "I'll make up a bill when I'm done." In every line of work except health care, this is illegal. There are even laws for "major" consumer work (e.g. contracting, auto repair, etc) where they must give you a binding written estimate before beginning work!
2. Robinson-Patman makes it illegal to discriminate against like kind purchasers of goods in pricing decisions when the effect of doing so is to lessen competition. While it does not apply to services, it darn well should. Whether you are paying privately, you have private insurance or you're a Medicare patient if you need to have a breast reconstructed due to cancer the complexity of the procedure does not change. Yet it is a fact that the privately-billed amounts for uninsured ("rack rate") patients are often ten times or more that billed to insurers or Medicare. Try charging a cash purchaser 10x more for a TV than someone who finances that TV on your in-house credit facility and you would be shut down and thrown in jail.

#1 and #2 exist because of explicit efforts by the "health care" industry to exempt themselves from the laws that every other merchant of every other good and service in the United States must adhere to.

To put this bluntly the medical industry has intentionally put forward a system by which it can screw you with impunity, obtaining exemptions from the laws that cover every other area of commerce, thereby effectively forcing you to buy overpriced services you do not want to purchase lest an unexpected life event literally wipe you out.

This is an extortion racket and absolutely none of the proposals being put forward have done a thing to address any of it.

If we want to fix the health care pricing problem we can do so. It isn't very difficult. Here's the prescription:

1. All health care providers must publish a price list for the procedures and services they offer and the patient must be presented, when possible, with that information before services are performed or goods (e.g. medication) supplied, consenting to the charge in each case. All normal anti-trust provisions with regards to collusion between providers apply. If a physician doesn't like "flat-rate" billing they're free to publish a per-hour fee much like an attorney.
2. No physician or group may discriminate based on the form of any external payment. If they want to internally finance procedure(s), that's fine - they can charge interest or discount for that, or whatever. But for anyone who pays via any other means (including the government) money is money - the price may not change based on the source of payment.
3. No event caused by your presence in a medical facility or the actions of an employee there can come with cost to you. It is absolutely common for people to be billed for treatment of MRSA infections acquired in the hospital! That is equivalent to a mechanic that through incompetence or even malice cuts a wiring harness in your car while it is on the rack having the oil changed and then tries to charge you to fix what he broke!

Now clearly #1 doesn't work so well when you're unconscious due to a heart attack or just wrecking your car. But setting your broken leg or performing a cardiac procedure is something that's done for people who aren't incapacitated too, so guess what - the price is already published and thus the charge known.

This prevents the common practice of hospitals gouging private payers, it exposes prices and brings competition to pricing, and allows the free market to work. It ends the preference for "insurance" on routine procedures.

Next up, if you want to sell "insurance" in a market you must sell it to all persons in that market, defined as an area of at least one US State. You may discriminate in your pricing only based on age and gender - nothing else. If you sell that "insurance" product to any person you must sell to all persons within that state at the same price, and you must publish all your plans and offering prices.

"Insurance" products that are not true insurance products may not discriminate on reimbursement dependent on where the service is performed. The practice of requiring "in network" doctors or even hospitals lest you get "rejected" must end. In addition pre-qualification for any bona-fide non-elective procedure must be absolutely barred as a matter of law.

(snip) more

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/authors/2-Karl-Denninger
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #51
83. This is absolute verifiable fact.
Edited on Wed Jul-08-09 12:14 AM by Grinchie
My parthners Insulin Needles doubled in price after she discontinued her insurance. It appears that if you don't have Insurance, you are not able to participate in the preferential pricing scheme the insurance comany has designed for the Pharmacy.

Never mind that insulin needles are coughed out by an automated process by the millions, with almost no human labor involved other than feeding the machine raw materials.

Do they think that people are so stupid that the Government can boast about amazing increases in productivy, while the widgets produced rise in price at rates of 100% or more per year?

Apparently, they do, and they think that they don't have to listen to the roar of the approaching tsunamai ready to grind them into little pieces while they sip margaritas on the beach.

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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
56. Every single time Gov. Dean opens his mouth
I want to stand up and cheer for his sheer honesty. He certainly could teach many of our "leaders" a thing or two.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
57. K&R
:kick:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
58. On Olbermann just now...Dean said there will be trouble if no public option
He said it is between the insurance companies and the people who need health care.

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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
59. K&R. Printed out to read at home.
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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
61. a K and a R
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
66. It is a shame this guy is a mere civilian
He is so spot on with respect to health care (and so many other issues)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. I so agree on that.
He told a friend he would be holding some feet to the fire. And he is.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. Amen
Maybe he could remove their shoes and push them closer to the flame. :evilgrin:
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Arger68 Donating Member (562 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
67. I just added up and I've spent around $21,000 out of pocket
over the last 2.5 years. I have insurance and that does not include the premium. Self-employed w/$10,000 deductible. The biggest cost was a broken collarbone that did not heal on its own. Just that alone has cost me well over $10,000 out of pocket. I would be much better off paying a 10% medicare style tax.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #67
77. HR676 would have been much better than that.
A 3.5% tax on the employer and the employee, with NO DEDUCTIBLES AND NO CO-PAYS. Being self-employed, you would have had to pay 7%.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
71. Pardon my Ignorance, but what high level post has Obama appointed Howard Dean to?
I'm actually quite embarassed to say, that I don't recall his appointment to anything, but I may have missed it.

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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. He didn't appoint Dean to anything.
They're scared of him. He upsets the status quo. Which Obama is trying to protect.

And maybe that's a good thing. He can speak his mind now, without worrying about offending the boss.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #71
79. The national party leaders never mention his name at all.
He was shoved out of the leadership on a national level.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #79
84. Good lord..
Needless to say, I unsubscribed from the Happy Happy Joy Joy mailing list from BarackObama.com, with a rather sharp Dear Obama letter..

It was after I heard that he had Appointed Michael Taylor to the USDA.. If that isn't a boot to the head that can't be ignored, I don't know what is.

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aaaaaa5a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
74. It's a crying shame he wasn't our nominee in 2004 nt
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. You've got that right!
The MSM went out of their way to kill his candidacy.
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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #74
82. JUST SHOWS THE POWER OF THE MEDIA MONSTERS
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
85. The US Govt cares less about its own people than most other developed countries
and maybe our govt cares less about human life in general, unless it is their own hide.

Other countries govts do much better for their people and dont lick the boots of insurance cos.
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The Hope Mobile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
86. Dean 2012 nt
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troubledamerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
87. This interview fucking sickens me.
After the first two sentences out of Howard Dean's mouth, it's obvious that Howard Dean was THE choice to draft the plan proposal.

Instead, Howard Dean is a pariah in the White House. And Congress. And the Democratic Party.
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farmboxer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
88. Many of us will have to commit suicide when we are seriously ill
I know of many who plan such. Europeans don't have to do that. I voted Dem for health care. I will not forget what the Senate has done and, if I am still alive, will vote against those who betrayed us. Dr. Dean for Pres. Obama should go straight to the voters on this issue,tell it like it is about the Drug/insurance companies, but I believe "We The people" are taken for granted. The most important thing within a Plutocracy, such as America, ($$$$$$$$)is to make the drug/insurance companies happy, to Hell with the poor/middle class! Lord forbid if we get sick. Where is Michael Moore? Our politicians have Universal health care, they are rich and could afford to pay for such, but we have to pay for "their" health care. Greed within a Plutocracy is out of control.

Republicans do not want us to have health care, I expect that, but Dems? "We have the best Congress money can buy." - Will Rogers.

I really envy the rich for being able to die with respect. Our politicians can get help when sick, we can't. Some of us need Dr.Kevorkian, (forgot how to spell his name). I can see why our government did not want him to help the people die a peaceful death, after all, the corporations would lose big money if their cash cows die and they do not get to keep them alive long enough to make 100% of their profit by keeping them alive, selling them lots of drugs so the CEO's can get millions in bonuses. Poor CEO's, they really need an extra mansion or two, or three or four, or more! There is never enough. People living in the streets, not so good. People dying in the streets, even worse.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
90. I've been saying this since February
Edited on Wed Jul-08-09 04:13 AM by DFW
Obama would regret mightily not have asked Howard to join his cabinet.

I see one of 2 possibilities:

1.) Obama never imagined Howard would be the thorn of conscience in the side of the Obama
administration if he was shut out of the government and left free to say whatever he wanted
without fear of being reprimanded by a higher up--as a free man, he has no higher up.

or

2.)
Obama knew he'd never get the sloth of government to get off their collective asses to get
to work on real health care reform without a push from the outside, and shutting Howard out
in the beginning would provide just such a push. When Rahmbo had served his purpose of whipping
the chaos of a new White House into some semblance of order, he can then be sent on his merry
abrasive way, and Howard can then be brought in to oversee the real health care reform that
Obama wanted all along, but never thought he'd be able to bring about by himself.

Either way, we could end up better off not having had Howard in the government in the beginning,
but only if he is asked to come in later on to take part in setting up what (apparently) only he
seems to have the force of conscience (and hands-on knowledge) to manage, should it become reality.

We're nowhere near there yet, but the first steps have been taken--steps that would never have been
taken without Howard's constant pushing.

Howard can be pretty in-your-face, too, when he wants to be, but he has this little habit of being
right so often, that it's worth it. He's not infallible, but he's wrong a lot less than most of the
people out there who are making a lot of decisions that affect all our lives. History may have cheated
our country out of a President Howard Dean, but it's time a Democratic Administration stopped cheating
us out of having him in Government and having the president's ear. After all, who do we need more
running up to Capitol Hill to explain with force AND expertise why we need reform enacted, and enacted
ASAP? It's time the doctor was REALLY in.
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #90
94. +1!!!!
:bounce: :kick: :woohoo: :applause:
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #94
98. I'm not impartial or anything ;-)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #98
108. Good picture, DFW. One to treasure.
:hi:
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pjt7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
92. Kudos for Esquire for running this interview
Dr.Dean should be in front of the camera, more often than Dick Cheney's daughter.:P
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
93. Wrong. The Senate is destroying the *rest* of us. n/t
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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
97. Dr. Howard Dean states the progressive position on health care.
“We are here; we’re not going away. We voted for change a few months ago. We expect change. And if we don’t get it, there’s going to be more change,” (Howard Dean July 2009).

I think that covers it perfectly. Pass it on.

nice post, madfloridian.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #97
103. I agree that covers it nicely.
So glad to see him speaking out.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
99. Lordy, I love that man
People can talk about "gaffes" all they want. Dr. Dean tells the truth.

Give 'em hell, Howard. :loveya:
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mother earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
102. This interview is great. As usual, Dean is THE man! He knows
the real deal & tells it like it is.

K & R
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #102
106. I so agree.
The real deal.
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mother earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-09-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #106
107. Thanks for bringing this interview to our attention, MF.
:hug: Dean is a true gem.
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