Has anyone said this yet? (Universal Health Care Outcome)

[SheilaT]

If we do get a genuine single payer system which covers everyone (sort of like what they have in other first world countries) how many people will no longer stay in jobs just for the health care?

Maybe it's being discussed and I just haven't logged on at the right times to see the discussions, but to me this is the real elephant in the living room here.

[Clintonista2]

1. Is that necessarily a bad thing?

Why should people be forced to stay at a job they hate just because they wouldn't be able to pay to stay alive if they get sick?

[SheilaT]

5. That's exactly my point. So many people

stay in a job they hate precisely because of the health care benefits -- maybe they have a "pre-existing" condition which means getting health care elsewhere under our current system is difficult or impossible, maybe they're afraid they can't get as good coverage elsewhere, and so on.

People do stay at jobs they hate for a lot of (usually bad IMHO) reasons. I just don't know if the health care aspect has really been discussed.

I took my current job because I need health care, or I assume I do even though I'm amazingly healthy and haven't been to a doctor in years.

[napi21]

2. In the short term, I doubt you'd see many change jobs. There

aren't that many jobs out there to change to. Long term, I'm sure there will be some, but I doubt there will ever be a mass exodus.

[tnlurker]

3. That is one of the problems that business has with single payer

Plan.

When people wake up to the fact that they no longer have to stay with that employer to keep their health insurance then they will start to leave and the employers will have to find some other incentive (like higher wages) to attract and keep good employees.
That scares them that they will have to pay more and possible treat their employees better to retain them.

That is why companies that are spending millions on health care plans are not advocating the single payer plans. It would save them millions in the short term but make them less powerful to their employees in the long run. They will no longer be the masters.

[LiberalFighter]

6. It isn't always about wages. At least not extremely good wages.

It is also about job security, good employer employee relationship, and other factors that determine whether an employee will stay at the business. If health care is not a factor it could also reduce employee stress and result in better productivity from the employees.

Health care will not be just a short term positive. It will be long term and businesses will not be at an advantage because they don't provide health insurance. And they will be able to compete more effectively with foreign businesses that import their products.

[TWiley]

4. Single Payer is a Republican distraction.

It is expensive, huge, and unworkable. It is a red herring designed to scuttle more viable alternatives. Mr. Obama's plan is more of a competing option designed to force private companies which stop (for example) covering people due to pre-exsisting conditions.

The private health care industry has proven itself to be a band of theives and con artists. A competing choice will help to keep them honest.

[Coyote_Bandit]

8. Thing is

there is no guarantee that any public option will be affordable to the uninsured/underinsured or that the cost to participate will be competitive with private insurers. And there is an argument to be made that a public option will become the high risk insurer of last resort.

[slipslidingaway]

10. ??? A Republican distraction? More expensive than a public

option?

Maybe you can post some links to back up these claims.

:shrug:

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. It might be huge, but it would be neither expensive nor unworkable.

Just look at the countries that have single-payer UHC. That would be, among our competitors, ALL of our competitors.

Private insurance is hobbling our economy to the degree that a fifth of our population is without insurance, half of those with insurance have insufficient coverage, and yet we STILL pay three times more than our competitors for health care for less result.

Obama's plan is, at best, a poor compromise with what we really need. And that is if it passes WITH a strong public option.

[rurallib]

7. the health care system is one way to control workers

Been saying it for a long time.
Imagine entrepeneurs leaving their jobs to start new businesses because they won't have to worry about losing health care.

[slipslidingaway]

9. Single-payer has not been part of the discussions...

but I agree that people would be free to make a career change or start their own business with less worry.

[harun]

11. It looks like we have a 0% chance of getting Single Payer right now

but the job changing would be a huge plus in terms of people starting new businesses.

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. I wonder how many small company start-ups have failed because

the stress the owner was under in starting the business put him in bad health, and he had to quit in order to get a job with health coverage.

What is the statistic? 90% of new businesses fold within five years? What percentage of them were good businesses that were forced to shut their doors because of healthcare issues?

[harun]

18. We would get an explosion of start-ups if people could attract talent

without having to worry about where to get all the cash to pay for their Health Coverage.

[truth2power]

12. I've been saying that for the past 20 years..

and I'm not exaggerating on that time frame.

It's a way of keeping people in crappy jobs that they wouldn't otherwise tolerate. In a reasonable economy, an able-bodied person can find something that will keep them going temporarily, a job or two part-time jobs.

I think the idea of universal health care scares the bejeezus out of the rentier class.

[lib2DaBone]

13. Can they Flog the American Worker any more than they have?

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. Sure. Unplugging health care from employment will make people free. n/t

[havocmom]

16. Not just people staying in jobs they hate for health care

Employers can treat workers like shit, keep the gulf between workers wages and top wages getting larger because people aren't really free to exercise their option of 'firing bad employers'

I see the current system as one more way the worker/average taxpayer subsidizes the richer classes. We have to eat shit or we are in mortal danger of not having access to health care. And the health care we can access IS RATIONED by insurance bean counters and the class that employs them to assure profits over care.