Poll: Should medics pay for property of saved woman? shattered window to get in, scratched piano

[Liberal_in_LA]

Poll: Should medics pay for property of saved woman?
Rescuers broke window in process of helping stroke victim.

By JEFF OVERLEY
THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER

NEWPORT BEACH – If someone saves your life but damages your property in the process, should they pay for repairs?

If you think it depends on the circumstances, consider the case of Hilda Hine-Dimancheff, 88-year-old resident of Newport Beach.

The widow was in her Tustin Avenue townhome earlier this year, talking on the phone with a friend, when she suffered a stroke, prompting the friend to hang up and dial 911.

Paramedics arrived but found the door locked, and so they shattered a window and climbed inside, apparently scratching an antique piano as they entered.

After two nights in the hospital, Hine-Dimancheff was back home, and while she has some lingering effects from the stroke, she credits her rescuers with saving her life.

"Of course I'm very grateful," she said. "I'm very thankful to the paramedics; I think they do a marvelous job."

That said, Hine-Dimancheff feels compelled to ask that the city pay for the damage. In a legal claim, she requested $960, which consists of $285 to replace the window and $675 to have hairline scratches buffed out of the black ebony finish on her baby grand piano.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/dimancheff-hine-piano-2487216-year-very

[babylonsister]

1. Other: HELL NO!

From Newport Beach, and her black ebony finish on her baby grand piano? :puke:

Please. She should be grateful and zip her lip. She's damned lucky she's still here imo.

[MrsMatt]

3. GMTA - I voted "other" with the same thought in my head! n/t

[Warpy]

32. X 3!!!!

Jeez, the old broad is lucky to be alive. Why can't she get a $20 drill and a buffer wheel and do the damn piano herself? Reglazing should be done by a professional, of course, but adequate instructions for buffing out hairline scratches on fine antiques abound on the net. Surely she's got a relative who'd print them out for her!

Her homeowner's insurance should cover the cost of the window and it might even cover the stupid piano. The paramedics are the wrong people to hit up for cash.

My guess is that she resents the cost of the meat wagon and is trying to get it back.

[Canuckistanian]

2. Imagine the headline if they HADN'T broken in

"Paramedics refuse to save elderly woman for fear of damaging property"

Ungrateful b****

[EFerrari]

16. That really isn't the point though. She pays for those medics with her taxes.

She's ALREADY done that.

If they damage her property as a result of doing their job, they should be liable. It's not about ingratitude, just liability.

[LisaL]

20. WTF are you talking about?

So if they extract someone from the car using "jaws of life" they are liable for damage to the car? If the house is burning, and firemen break window to save someone, they are liable for damage to the window?
According to you?

[EFerrari]

24. Who else should be liable, Lisa?

It's just part of the job.

[LisaL]

28. Part of the job is to save her life.

Not pay for her damaged property. As to who else should be liable? She should have home owners insurance and she should file a claim. If she doesn't have insurance, she got no one to blame but herself.

[democracy1st]

49. wow the fact that you had to explain that is amazing

[Canuckistanian]

35. There wouldn't BE anyone to sue for liability if they hadn't done that

I don't want paramedics worrying about my property if MY life was hanging in the balance.

To HELL with worrying about "taxes"

[yodoobo]

64. Sure there would be

Her estate could certainly sue just as the living person could.

[democracy1st]

48. Would she be better off if they had waited for a locksmith ?

and also she doesn't pay enough by herself,it's a community.

[Romulox]

59. It's really gratifying to see a poster with whom I've so often disagreed say something so silly

on another topic. :rofl:

[LisaL]

4. I am sorry, but dead people don't need baby grand pianos.

If paramedics are made to pay for property damaged during rescue, they might thing twice next time whether to break into someone's window. The lady should be thankful she is alive and can still play on her piano, even if it is scratched.

[Gwendolyn]

5. Looks like the effects are more lingering than they thought.

:D

[LiberalFighter]

6. Heck no AND she should just will the piano to somebody and let them fix the piano.

Until she dies and whoever receives the piano via the will she should just put a tablecloth over the markings.

[Jackpine Radical]

7. She's insane.

Good God, if something like this were to stand, the consequences could be enormous. Would the medics have to pay for additional damage they did to somebody's car while trying to extract them from the wreckage at an accident scene?

Life comes first. If what they did was even vaguely reasonable (e.g. didn't deliberately trash the piano with fire axes or something), they should be lauded as heroic professionals, not harrassed.

I'm not an EMT, but I know some, and I have profound respect for them and what they do on a daily basis.

[Cid_B]

46. Thats were my mind went...

How far down does this go? Does she sue for a full carpet cleaning because EMT Smith didn't wipe his feet well enough or even just because they cause wear on the carpet?

Slippery slope... damages should be sought only in case of negligence(i.e. we bulldozed your wall when the door was open). Seems there would be law on this already one way or the other.

[Motown_Johnny]

8. That is what insurance is for.....

[baldguy]

11. +1

[madrchsod]

9. home owners insurance should pay for some of the damages

[Mr. Sparkle]

10. imo, she should prove she is grateful and pay to get her window fixed.

sometimes I despair at human nature !

[mwooldri]

12. No, no no.

The paramedics used "reasonable force" since life was in danger, and indeed a life was saved.

If the rescuee has a hardship case, maybe there could be funds made available to fix the window, but not the piano, and those funds would be disbursed by charitable means, not through the legal system. Case should be thrown out of court for that. Fact she's filing a lawsuit shows she may well have some means to pay the damage.

[Statistical]

13. Piano is worth $50,000. She is 88 I am assummin paid off mortgage.

Sometimes in life you need to make choices.

Get reverse mortgage = income of $3000 - $4000 a month based on $200K house and her age.
Sell the piano. Live how she wants to off the money because odds are she isn't going to be alive for decades longer.

To sit there an top of two illiquid assets (house & baby grand) while talking about how "poor" she is w/ $500 SS check as only income is crazy to me.

She reminds me of my grandmother in law. My wifes grandfather husband left her a small fortune (nearly $1 million in CD, treasuries, and life insurance policy). She lives like she is dirt poor. She stopped running the sprinkler when it was 100+ because she couldn't "afford it" and killed the grass she asked me to plant the month prior. Grrr. Love her though.

[madrchsod]

17. her house is in the 800,000 range-down from around 1.5 million

[Statistical]

31. 800K home paid off would be $5000 a month for life or a $425K lump sum, n/t

I mean what does she need the house for after she is dead?

Living on $500 SS check when she has an asset that can generate a substantial source of income for life... insanity.

[EFerrari]

14. Sure they should. I'm sure they have much insurance than she does.

It's just part of the job.

[LisaL]

18. Oh give me a break.

They shouldn't be obligated to pay for damage to property which was sustained as they were trying to save a life.
The lady should file with her home owners insurance company-that's what insurance is for.

[EFerrari]

22. We disagree. They did damage that property as a result of doing their job.

It's just part of the cost of the call.

I'm always flabbergasted when DU wants to hit someone like this women with those costs, lol. It's completely unreasonable. She didn't do the damage and she was disabled at the time through no fault of her own.

You guys sound just like Republicans, always trying to stick ordinary people with costs they have no control over. lol

[babylonsister]

27. We sound like rethugs? Surely you can do better than that.

lol :eyes:

If someone saved my life, I wouldn't be arguing about stuff like this, I'd be grateful.

[EFerrari]

39. This isn't a moral issue. If property is damaged in the course of the call

it should be paid for. And in any case, that spreads the cost to the tax base instead of the smaller group of insurance buyers.

Being grateful has nothing to do with it. The paramedics are in the emergency business. They have insurance exactly for this stuff. Good grief.

[OnyxCollie]

55. What do you think of this?

Cop who fell on the job sues family of baby who almost drowned
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3022851

Turnabout's a bitch.

[Liberal_in_LA]

57. I remember that story. Wasn't the cop embarrassed (by all the publicity) into dropping the case

[OnyxCollie]

58. I think you are correct. nt

[PVnRT]

51. I see you've run out of steam

"You guys sound like Republicans..."

Pathetic.

[MrsMatt]

23. It's not like they trashed the place

for fun.

Riddle me this - if you were transported to the ER via ambulance, and the doctor removed a very expensive piece of clothing by cutting it in order to save your life, would you sue the hospital for damages?

[EFerrari]

25. Are you kidding? Who normally gets stuck with these costs?

You have to pay for every tongue depressor they use on you in a hospital. Why is it not reciprocal?

[MrsMatt]

29. That's administrative bean counting and you know it

And why shouldn't you pay for supplies that are used in treatment? IF they are necessary. Obviously, items not needed should be challenged.

[EFerrari]

40. Yes, it is. And the people always wind up paying through the nose

for it.

This woman has already paid with her taxes for these responders services. She shouldn't have to bear the cost of this damage as well. It's a no brainer. You break it, you pay for it.

[Statistical]

42. Then they will be under pressure from the govt to not break stuff.

You know try every door, check to see if there is an open/unlocked window.....
and she (or next victim) dies because they took to long trying to avoid physical damage.
Yeah great plan.

If it is me I want them there fast before my brain dies from lack of oxygen.
If they did $5000 in damage and I am alive I figure that is a better deal then no damage and being dead.

[EFerrari]

43. They already are. These people deal with issues of liability all the time. n/t

[Raskolnik]

52. Liability should not be determined by who has the bigger insurance policy.

Here's a novel thought--maybe *no one* is at fault for the property damage, because it appears that the paramedics did not cause any damage that was not necessary to SAVE THIS WOMAN'S LIFE.

[Romulox]

62. The firefighters would only be liable for property damage if they acted UNREASONABLY

under the circumstances.

[madrchsod]

15. google street map is so cool.....

[salguine]

19. This makes me want to go over to her house and scratch the piano some more.

[BlooInBloo]

21. If so, then don't require them to help.

[npk]

26. What good were her pristine piano be if she is dead

I say get some polish and start buffing.

[Nailzberg]

30. Some firefighters putting out my blazing house ruined my precious flower bed.

They should have to pay for my tulips.

[Contrary1]

38. Yep

And I still have a soot mark on my ceiling from where a firefighter felt for heat with a dirty glove.
Maybe I can get them to paint the whole upper level to make sure the paint is a perfect match.

[Thegonagle]

33. Homeowners insurance should take care of it, less the deductible. Am I wrong?

[Statistical]

34. Yes it would however most people have $500 or $1000 deductible.

Still her house is worth a substantial amount of money and I am guessing being 88 and living on SS ($500/mo) it is paid off. A reverse mortgage would give her more money that she could possibly spend for the rest of her life.

Instead she plays the victim and says she can't afford the repairs living on SS (with hundreds of thousands in assets).

Cry me a river.

[ColbertWatcher]

36. Yes, but only if the person saved is not living in Newport Beach.

Those people are elitist bastards.

[JVS]

37. I think it depends on how severe the damage is, how able the person is to pay for it, and how...

necessary it was to the rescue to do the damage. In this case, I don't think the city should pay.

If, on the other hand they were to kick in the door and ended up wrecking the area around it so that a poor person would need to pay thousands of dollars to make the house habitable again, there should be some kind of relief fund.

[OhioChick]

41. Hell No. n/t

[Waiting For Everyman]

44. Maybe she'd like to pay the medics what her life is worth first.

And they could just deduct what the junk cost from that.

What an ungrateful moron.

[islandmkl]

45. for any DUers who think that "...the medics should pay for the damage as they caused it while doing

their jobs..." or some similar nonsense, consider this:

have a problem, call 911, or even better, someone calls 911 for you...you have secured yourself so nobody can get in...the 911 folks show up, and nobody can respond to their knock...

they should just leave...matter resolved...

or, as at least one of our geniuses determines, they should be able to perform their life-saving jobs without any property damage...

my advice: either don't lock all your doors, or DON'T CALL 911...

maybe old Hilda ought to sue her friend that initiated the whole process...

[Behind the Aegis]

47. And people wonder where all the good Samaritans have gone?

Bullshit like this is gross! If they acted outside of their position (the door was open) or they were reckless, then yes, there MIGHT be a case. Everyone is looking for someone to sue.

[armyowalgreens]

50. I kind of feel like bitch slapping this lady...

"hairline" scratches? The actual function of the piano wasn't touched. You probably wouldn't even notice it.

The broken window? Would she rather have died?


If they accidentally burned the house to the ground, I would see how the lady would have an argument. But the damages were minor and a result of proper practices by the emergency crews.

Maybe next time they should just let the old hag die. At least all her shit will look good. Jesus.

[raccoon]

53. Hell, no. What a selfish, ungrateful bitch. She must be a Republican. nt

[Statistical]

61. Yup because there are no selfish ungrateful Democrats, Independents, or non-voters n/t

[Horse with no Name]

54. What an idiot.

I say if it goes to to this system, then just let the folks that have fallen down and can't get up stay there until family help or someone with a spare key arrives.
I want my tax dollars used for things that are more beneficial than fixing a nasty old woman's piano.

[calico1]

56. Is it better to have an unscratched piano and a

window that isn't broken but be dead?

I think not.

How could she even ask for compensation?

[Romulox]

60. What a disgusting person! nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

63. My city routinely pays for damage we do making forced entry.