Do you think that rude and nasty people can really be liberals?

[Th1onein]

I wonder about that, sometimes, when I read DU. Some of the things that people say to each other are just really nasty and downright mean. And this is from liberal to liberal. If we act that way with conservatives, is it any wonder that some of them think that we are evil?

And here we are, on DU, and day after day it's the same people just beating the shit out of others, and they call themselves liberals? Liberals are supposed to give a shit about their fellow human beings, yet we can't do that even on this forum, where it takes little energy to show someone that you respect them as human beings, if nothing else. And, yeah, I realize "it's the internet," but so what? We don't have to do anything here but be kind and decent to each other, and that seems to be very difficult for some people, on a daily basis.

I could see it if, everyone once in a while, someone has a bad day, but these are the same people, over and over again. Don't you ever wonder if maybe they are mixed up about what they REALLY believe, and should have joined a rightwing forum?

[AllentownJake]

1. Yes

Someone can be nasty and be a liberal and someone can be compassionate and be a conservative

[CrownPrinceBandar]

2. I think its more about they keep their annonymity..........

folks can be all kinds of nasty if they don't have to face the person they're insulting. And, most importantly, liberals can be assholes too.

[MercutioATC]

3. You seem to have a very simplistic view of what it means to be a "liberal".

There are rude "liberals" just as there are polite "conservatives".

You're proposing an apples/furniture comparison.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

4. Plenty of them here.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. Huh?

[BlooInBloo]

10. The poster is likely talking about me.

[MercutioATC]

See? You're proof that one can be really abrasive and still be a liberal.

Personally, I think you're an ass, but that's a difference in how we express ourselves. I don't question your "liberal" creds.

[BlooInBloo]

17. I deny none of what you say.

[Cant trust em]

16. Yeah. You're a total asshole.

I'm just kidding. :)

I'm in a very silly mood this afternoon.

[BlooInBloo]

21. :P

[patrice]

97. You're rough, but funny. Some of this stuff is just plane vicious & not funny for no useful purpose.

[lumberjack_jeff]

121. Chah!

Like we didn't already know.

[dionysus]

127. you're not an asshole royal, you're more like a sonofabitch

[BlooInBloo]

130. mmm... I wish I had a Royale with cheese....

:P

[dionysus]

131. you know what they put on french fries in holland? mayonaise. i seen em do it they fucking drown em

in that shit.

[rateyes]

6. Nice post, Hitler.

(Just kidding.) I understand your point. Mean people suck, regardless of their politics.

[ColbertWatcher]

32. LOL!

Best subject line ever!

[Selatius]

7. Not everybody is cut out to be like Gandhi.

But everybody, hopefully, has the capacity to learn from their mistakes and to go on from there. It is when this capacity is lost, when the person becomes entrenched into a dogma, that the person has become somebody who is not open to new ideas and change, the definition of a liberal. This person has become a conservative, who favors slow or even no change. At worst, the person becomes a reactionary, seeking change back to a previous state of order, typically a state of order that never existed, like a 1950s Leave It To Beaver America that only existed on TV and never in reality.

[seabeyond]

8. the good and bad of internet. i really think, with the access to internet, the faceless... we

have shifted our world to the uncivil. there is no repercussion. i have seen it grow. and permeate out into the real world.

[Fire1]

9. Of course not. There are so many conservatives on

this board, it's sickening.

[shireen]

11. i've always thought one of the characteristics of being liberal is

compassion.

Nasty mean remarks don't normally come from compassionate people.
So, either these people are not liberal, or they're uncompassionate liberals, or they're not normal. :shrug:

[Cleita]

12. There are two famous liberals that I can think of right now who have

the reputations of being rude and that would be Michael Moore and Keith Olbermann, but I suspect that both men have no patience with stupid people. However, I would miss their liberal voices no matter how unfriendly and rude they are in person.

[Luminous Animal]

15. I've never seen Michael Moore be rude.

Sincere and critical, yes. But not rude. I've never watched Olbermann so I can't comment on that.

[Cleita]

25. I'm not talking about their public persona but gossip about how they

are off camera.

[Orsino]

128. Well, maybe a little.

He did build his career on pretending not to understand when asked to leave.

I'm inclined to forgive that in the service of such ideals.

[a la izquierda]

24. Olbermann might be "rude" on TV...

but in real life, he's a nice person. At least according to my very liberal cousin, who knows him reasonably well.

[Cleita]

27. That's good to know because I have heard from others that he was rude to

them, however, I suspect that he just doesn't suffer fools that well.

[a la izquierda]

113. I suspect you're right.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

35. Neither of these are rude. Bill Maher is a bit closer to being rude. And then...

And then there's The Rude Pundit... http://rudepundit.blogspot.com

[Cleita]

76. Bill Maher isn't a liberal. He has claimed that he is a libertarian although

he is pretty liberal on a lot of issues.

[Ignis]

57. "no patience with stupid people"

I think this is it. As evidence, I present Al Gore's sighing during the 2000 debates.

I know I'd certainly be sighing a lot during a debate with a first-class idiot like Shrub.
:banghead:

[muriel_volestrangler]

109. Some more: Al Franken titled his book "Rush Limbaugh Is A Big Fat Idiot"

Limbaugh, of course, completely deserves it. But Franken is undoubtedly a good liberal, and extremely popular on DU.

Another: Gore Vidal and the Art of the Political Insult

And I've never listened to her, but Randi Rhodes is another, by all accounts. And she doesn't like Franken, and shows it, but they're both liberals.

[snooper2]

116. Ding Ding...we have a winner

I don't do the stupid either... :)

[OKNancy]

13. Sometimes reading here I do believe that old saying:

Liberals care about the masses, but don't care about the individual

Oh and another thing popped in my head just now.

The lyrics to Easy to be Hard, from Hair


How can people be so heartless
How can people be so cruel
Easy to be hard
Easy to be cold

How can people have no feelings
How can they ignore their friends
Easy to be proud
Easy to say no

And especially people
Who care about strangers
Who care about evil
And social injustice
Do you only
Care about the bleeding crowd?
How about a needing friend?
I need a friend

[hfojvt]

49. thanks for including the Hair lyrics

that often crosses my mind here.

[ContinentalOp]

86. That scene in the movie is really heavy!

I watched that a few months ago and that scene really brought me to tears and I almost never cry in movies.

Still, that isn't going to keep me from being an asshole at DU :P

[blogslut]

14. Yes

Yes I do. Liberals come in all flavors.

[Hansel]

18. Yes.

But I think some of them on this board are Freepers and are here just to disrupt. You see so many that are on here pretending to be Liberal purists who are really just acting out the role of the Liberal stereotype the right wingers have of Liberals. Inevitably, they get too excited about a topic and slip and throw out an obvious right wing talking point.

But I do think there are a few on the left who are so obsessed with their own values that they strike out and act like the world is coming to an end if absolutely everything doesn't go their way. That comes out as attacks on other DU'ers when really it's probably just frustration.

[ContinentalOp]

19. Absolutely. Cynicism and anti-authoritarianism will often come across as "rude" to those in power.

I'm thinking of people like Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, Hunter S. Thompson, Paul Krassner, Lenny Bruce, and many others. The very idea of protest or civil disobedience is inherently rude and nasty. Polite Gandhilike milquetoasts don't have a monopoly on liberal thought.

[Echo In Light]

28. And to those who drop to their knees and smooch Power's ass, even those not cognizant of doing so.

[GreenArrow]

20. I suspect that in many cases

what they take for liberal is actually an excuse for license. Some of the others know exactly what they're doing and revel in the anonymous and faceless world of the message board where they can get away with talking to people in ways they would never dream of doing in real life. Frankly, I don't think a lot of the rudest people on here are liberals at all; which isn't to say they are necessarily conservatives either.

[Echo In Light]

33. Exactly. The bigger the mouth online, the bigger the coward in real life.

[ContinentalOp]

36. Here's another way to look at it. This isn't real life, it's a forum for the exchange of ideas.

There are probably people here who would be the nicest, most polite people if you met them in person (or as you put it, "cowards") but might get passionate to the point of nastiness when it comes to an impersonal debate of ideas on a forum like this.

Would you prefer that people keep their ideas to themselves in an anonymous impersonal forum like this, but rudely push them in your face in real life? That seems backwards.

[GreenArrow]

46. It's not about keeping one's ideas to oneself;

rather, it's about the approach one takes and the ways one relates to others. Lets say I make a post on capital punishment for example, and I get a response from someone saying something like "only a idiot would support that" or "the stupid, it burns" or "call the waambulance" and other expressions of that ilk. I often see "smilies" used disrespectfully or as subtle insults, the eye rolling one being a common example. It's those sorts of putdowns that are at issue, not an exchange of ideas. If you want to have a true dialog, a real exchange of ideas, then it's necessary to begin from a place of respect, even if you don't agree with the other person's perspective. There are too many posters on here who post simply to make insults, while others simply want to win, and find personal attacks an easy way of doing so.

[ContinentalOp]

77. Ah, ok, I see your point.

But too often I see people here getting branded as being rude or nasty simply because they don't show the proper amount of respect to religion or because they are ridiculing ideas that deserve ridicule. If somebody posts a thread saying "aliens ate my chakras today" or "Michael Jackson was the greatest artist to ever live" or "A flat tax is the only fair approach", sometimes jokes and ridicule might be deserved.

So when somebody asks if it's possibly to truly be liberal if you're rude and nasty, to me that question immediately implies the larger question, is it possible to be a liberal if you're not unquestioningly "openminded" about every individual's personal opinion. I think this is a common right wing mistake to equate liberalism with some kind of general "openmindedness" so we're supposed to give equal consideration to every crackpot idea of theirs (global warming denial, intelligent design, racism, homophobia) or else we're hypocrites because we're not being nice and liberal and tolerant of their views.

But to me liberalism is just a series of economic and social policy positions. It's not the kind of wishy-washy undefinable open-to-everything worldview that the right tries to portray.

[Th1onein]

110. Open to everything worldview is not the opposite of rude and nasty

That's like comparing apples and oranges.

On the continuum of left and right, on the left you have the idea that mankind is basically good, on the right you have the idea that mankind is basically bad. That's why anarchy is the extreme type of government on the left of that continuum and fascism is the extreme type of governmet on the right of it.

I'm a liberal, so I believe that man is basically good. I'm not perfect, so sometimes I fall behind in that regard, but I think that someone who continually treats others in a rude and nasty manner has got to fall on the right of that continuum.

Just my opinion, but maybe that's also why the rules of this forum forbid such shitty behavior?

[LanternWaste]

68. One may be involved in any exhchange of ideas...

One may be involved in any exchange of ideas, yet maintain a dignified civility and work within the social contract. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[patrice]

99. That depends upon what one wants the Most: an actual detailed exchange of ideas or

something else.

It's a stimulus response process and rewards are different for different kinds of people. The exchange is for the purpose of getting something out of it and some people, whether they are aware of it or not, ENJOY bitterness and anger more than they do an exchange of ideas.

[patrice]

98. Excellent point about low-level comprehension of Liberal = license.

[Voice for Peace]

22. I think about this often too.

We may fix health care, end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and fix the economy -- but as long as people feel ok about wounding or insulting others -- no matter who they are, what their beliefs or politics are -- new wars will begin, greed will keep its foothold, hatred will flourish.

People get a kick out of "us vs them." But us-vs-them is a hateful and unproductive way of life, in my opinion.

[ContinentalOp]

34. So you're saying it's the nice people vs. the rude & nasty people?

:P

[Voice for Peace]

39. kind of, not exactly. If people spent more time examining & cleaning up their own lives,

thoughts words & deeds, I think the whole world would improve in most ways. It doesn't mean being "nice" necessarily, but cultivating hatred, or blame of others, backfires in the long run & big picture.

One of the reasons I voted for Obama is because I think he understands this. It was a big part of his platform; that until we can find common ground, we're going to keep getting stuck.

[ContinentalOp]

41. So you voted for Obama because he's one of us?

:P Hopefully you see what I'm getting at. "Us vs them" can take many forms. For example, blaming sarcastic, cynical, irreverent people for all of the war and greed in the world is actually a pretty "us vs. them" point of view.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

52. I don't find Voice for Peace's comment an Us vs Them proposition at all

To me, VfP is talking about the opportunity for anyone and everyone to practice self awareness-- in order to grow.

[Voice for Peace]

63. thanks.

a nice simple way to put it.

there's another saying I've heard -- that if you have a garland of flowers - ie, joined together by a common thread -- if you pick up just one of the flowers, you will lift the whole garland. I like that metaphor, because I do feel we are connected, at our root, to everyone else, regardless of the differences.

It's kind of like if there are siamese twins, and they hate each other, so one poisons the other. D'oh!

[ContinentalOp]

78. It certainly is just as much "us vs. them" as any other binary construct.

I see it here all the time. If you're kind of sarcastic, use salty language, or have a sick or irreverent sense of humor, you're one of "them" and your liberal credentials are questioned. Never mind what you actually think about various topics and issues, if you occasionally get a little angry, and if you don't carry yourself like some kind of kindly church lady or enlightened Bodhisattva, then you can't possibly be "one of us."

[patrice]

101. VfP's comment is to you what you make it and since that IS true of you it is also true of one who

makes it the opposite of what you make of it, i.e. you can't claim the ability to apprehend the truth of it unless that is also possible for others.

The objective and (relatively) absolute truth of it is something that is beyond either your or my ability to calculate at this particular moment.

And, btw, Buddhism doesn't judge sarcasm, salty language, sick, or irreverent humor. It isn't "Christianity".

[ContinentalOp]

105. You just blew my mind.

I guess I'll have to just take your word for it!

[patrice]

107. I was into Absurdist literature once a long time ago.

And, btw, contrary to some of what I have posted here, you have just about convinced me of your point of view.

I'd like to add, though, that I think we need different classifications of rude posters, because I'm not sure everyone in this thread is talking about the same sort.

[Voice for Peace]

62. interesting question.

I don't like sarcasm personally, but cynicism and irreverence don't bother me, unless it's part of a personal attack. But sarcasm, irreverence, in many cases are a mask of cruelty. It's an ego trip and not constructive in any way.

I'm not blaming anybody in particular -- it's all of us. Each of us. Starts and ends with me. My responsibility is to clean up my own act, be the change I want to see in others. That's a very full plate. If I spend my energy ripping others, it drains me, and it does damage.

I'm not talking about playing niceynice. We can debate and disagree, and we can condemn and work hard against injustice. We must.

But unless we are also working on our own integrity -- Socrates called this "living an examined life" -- and treating others the way we want to be treated -- we will be perpetually stuck in conflicts or creating new ones.

The seeds of cruelty and destruction are in us all. So are the seeds of compassion, kindness, generosity. A human being "can't serve two masters."

I see this as a choice between my ego and my heart. I'll take heart. It makes my little world a more beautiful place.

So .. to answer your question, I didn't vote for Obama because he's one of us -- because I'm not "one of us." I'm a human being, member of the human race, currently resident of earth. Doing what I can.

[ContinentalOp]

80. OK, but here's the thing. I do like sarcasm. I LOVE it.

And yet you're telling me that it's a sign of cruelty and an ego trip. The OP essentially says that I can't possibly be a liberal. And you know what, that's OK with me!

But you have to recognize that it's exactly the same as me saying that religion is irrational or is the sign of a weak and childish mind (I would never say the latter, just trying to make a point here).

[Voice for Peace]

108. I think you've misinterpreted what I wrote.

Sarcasm is often used with cruel intent. It doesn't mean sarcasm is absolutely a sign of cruelty, nor an ego trip. You are the only one who can know your intent, when you are sarcastic.

But if you love being sarcastic, understand that for many people it is perceived as having cruel intent. And in such cases it leads to a chain-reaction of misunderstanding.

Unless you know someone really well, you don't know what's behind a person's response to your sarcasm. Maybe a child is raised by a parent who uses sarcasm cruelly. As an adult, that person will have a sensitivity that another person won't have. Sometimes sarcasm can open up deep wounds. Haven't you seen this? It happens all the time.

If somebody is offended by your sarcasm, it's worthwhile to step back and examine where you're coming from. Understand that words can wound, a weapon that ought to be used with great care.

I'm not religious, don't believe in religion. Weak & childish minds may cling to religion, I don't know. But what would you call someone who gets pleasure from making others feel small, putting others down? I don't think it's a sign of strength and maturity.

[ContinentalOp]

123. OK, fine. So sarcasm may be a sign of cruelty, weakness and immaturity.

But what does that have to do with liberal vs. conservative? :shrug:

[Voice for Peace]

129. I don't think it's a question of liberal vs conservative.

The question I wonder about is how people (whether liberal or conservative) who claim to care about humanity can feel ok about tearing down their fellow human beings. I don't know if you do this, but it does happen a lot here -- little wars.

[noiretextatique]

134. one of the concepts i loved from a business management model

i studied in graduate school was: self-regulation. the program is now defunct, but its mission was to transform business practices by creating a new type of business leader.
self-regulation is something that may people don't practice because it requires taking responsibility for yourself. that means people can't make you angry...you get angry. the model is called "the fifth discipline." i had hoped i could get my dinosaur of a company to practice this model, but since our CEO admires hitler's management style, i don't think that's going to happen.

[Voice for Peace]

140. interesting! you might enjoy this website

http://www.ideachampions.com/

I think an inspiring site -- a lot of good articles.

<<Idea Champions is a consulting and training company specializing in creativity, innovation, team building, leadership and out of the box products. Since 1986, we've been helping forward thinking organizations unleash their collective brilliance and achieve extraordinary results. Our work, however, goes well beyond getting people out of the box. Beyond brainstorming. Beyond ideas. Beyond the fuzzy front end of the corporate innovation process. What we do, ultimately, is help our clients establish humane, inclusive, sustainable cultures of innovation - the kinds of environments that become fertile ground for the natural expression of creativity, collaboration, commitment and uncommon success."

[noiretextatique]

141. thank you

i will check that out. i work for a non-profit organization that serves kids. it is the most archaic, punitive, unfriendly place i've ever worked. people there way they don't want to be like IBM, but they are far worse than IBM could ever be.
I appreciated all your posts in this thread :thumbsup:

[patrice]

102. Well said. I'm with you. nt

[patrice]

100. straw man

[Ignis]

58. We can't believe anyone intelligent would disagree with us.

So they must be stupid, and we tell them so.
And then it alllllllllllllllllllways snowballs, doesn't it?. :)

We need to learn to disagree in a more productive manner.

[Voice for Peace]

69. yes

exactly, you are right. "Productive" is the key word. If our arguments produce more hate and misunderstanding, they're not exactly productive, imo.

[Umbral]

23. Of course. Spending decades fighting and losing changes you. nt

[a la izquierda]

26. I can be rude and nasty...

when I'm on my bike and friggin' idiots nearly run me off the road.
I can also be rude and nasty to my conservative family. You can only take being called a communist so often...

[Raine]

29. Yes, of course. Just as some conservatives

are actually nice people (they're ignorant but nice).

[rug]

30. A more pointed question is, can anyone post in GDP without really being rude and nasty?

[Ignis]

31. You can answer your own question by starting a pro-PETA thread.

That'll give you the data you need reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal quick.

[PatSeg]

37. Oh I've known my fair share

and they can be just as closed minded as some right-wingers. Brings to mind the turbulent sixties - a lot of rude and nasty "liberals" back in the day. Of course, I can look back at that time now and attribute some of that to impetuous youth.

[MrSlayer]

38. Sure, being a liberal doesn't mean you have to be a wuss.

I'm a liberal but I'm not a hippy.

[ContinentalOp]

42. +1

:headbang:

[BlancheSplanchnik]

55. That seems like a weird worldview--treating people decently = wusshood?

Seems more like habitual gratuitous nastiness would be a symptom of wusshood trying to pretend it's testicularly/ovarianly well endowed.

[MrSlayer]

59. Treating people who deserve to be treated decently is fine.

But stomp the shit out of the others.

[patrice]

104. I'm a hippy, but I'm no wuss.

I'm usually nice and understanding and try to help, but if attacked I'm not at all shy about "hurting" someone.

[snooper2]

118. I know a Repuke hippie

He's only 17 but he grew up on a miltary base here in Texas and now lives in Maryland. ( My best friends half brother )....

He comes down every once in a while to visit and plays in our weekly poker games. Hates Obama- hates liberals- blah blah, but he smokes weed like a smokestack with us. Has the long stringy hair ( blond of course ) beat up cap, hippie clothes :rofl:

So, I started calling him dirty fucking hippie and now everyone at our game does :rofl:

Wake up you stoned dirty hippie- your turn to fucking deal :rofl: :rofl: :hippie: :rofl:

[Voice for Peace]

40. another point about being rude and nasty is that it's like a virus.

It's contagious. So you may just blow off at somebody, being witty and clever, and it feels good for the moment, maybe -- but now that person's gonna need to blow off too, likely at somebody else. And then that person is pissed off, and pisses off somebody else. Before you know it everybody in the chain is having a bad day.

Genuine kindness, thoughtfulness, patience is VERY powerful stuff. It can disarm. It can stop that chain reaction of negativity that leads to wars.

It's like bringing a light into a dark room. The darkness can't stay, once there's light in the room. You can't get rid of darkness by throwing more darkness at it, or even trying to remove it with a dedicated shovel.

[DireStrike]

43. A lot of people here are not liberals as you define it

At this point I think the majority on this site are partisans.

[GreenArrow]

50. Nice distinction

I think I tend to agree with it.

[Voice for Peace]

64. ditto

what you said.

[Mrs. Overall]

44. I would like our liberals in congress to be a little nastier and meaner.

Sometimes being downright angry, mean, and pissed off is what it takes to ultimately accomplish good works--like getting healthcare pushed through.

Even Jesus got pissed and knocked over the moneychangers' table and spoke harshly to them.

[DireStrike]

47. Yes, that would be a good thing

However, we don't have very many liberals in the Senate. Maybe 10 or 20.

[ContinentalOp]

81. Yeah, no shit. How rude was that?

I mean WTF? A guy is just trying to make an honest living and some dirty hippy comes round and physically attacks his personal property? How nasty can you get!

[bvar22]

45. You are assuming that everyone who posts here are "Liberals".

Many are not.

[tomreedtoon]

48. Better to ask, "why aren't more liberals rude?"

The fact is that too many people "wish" that conservatives would give them a chance and "hope" that people will not be racist and "dream" of a world of justice and peace.

Wishin' and hopin' and plannin' and dreamin' never got anywhere. Beating the crap out of some rich, contemptuous fascist does, but nobody has the courage or belief in their ideals to do it.

[ContinentalOp]

82. Exactly. They don't want us to be rude. The right constantly reminds us that we're supposed...

to play nice and be "open minded" about whatever nonsense they're trying to ram down our throats. If not then we're hypocrites. FUCK THAT.

[chrisa]

51. Anyone can be nasty,

And since this is the internet, always expect people to flame you for the stupidest things and act like some high school bully stereotype.

[Lorien]

53. These days you can call yourself a Democrat and still hate liberals

we have a lot of single issue Dems here on DU; racist, sexist gun hugging, dog beating, global warming denying, SUV loving, isolationists who, say, happen to be very pro-union, so they call themselves "Democrats", but would never call themselves a liberal. Bill Maher is right; there is no party for Liberals in America; there is the right wing corporate Democrats, and there are the insanely far right wing nutball fundamentalist republicans. One look at www.politicalcompass.org proves his point.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

119. That's not a very good example to use.

"pro-union" is one of the traditional hallmarks of liberalism. A better example would be the reverse which is to say now we have people calling themselves liberal who hate unions, love the corporate plutocracy, and are against universal healthcare who happen to be pro-choice and pro-environment and liberal on the "social" issues but could give a fuck about the working class.

[Beetwasher]

54. I'm A Proud Asshole Who Speaks My Mind And Refuses To Be Phony And Pretend I Don't Think Idiots Are

Idiots or that I like people I don't.

I'm real. I don't want anything bad to happen to you and I'll defend you're rights to say whatever the fuck you want. But I'm real and honest about how I feel and if I think you're being stupid I will say so and I'll be blunt about it. Oh, and I'm damn near as liberal as it gets on any issue you care to discuss.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

56. I think there's a difference between being "nasty" in response to

shitflingers, and nasty in order to arbitrarily fling shit because it's fun to provoke people.

[ContinentalOp]

84. +1

:thumbsup:

[ThomWV]

111. Rather than write my own may I quote you?

I get mad when well intentioned idiots make statements that show an utter lack of understanding of important matters and in doing so weaken legitimate arguments that might move that cause forward - and I say so.

[Beetwasher]

114. Sure!

I'd be honored.

[Stinky The Clown]

60. I'm a rude, nasty asshole ....... and very proud to be lberal.

I don't suffer fools easily and don't take a whole lot of shit ...... no matter where the shit comes from and no matter the fools' political bent.

[Ladyhawk]

61. Word. nt

[MadMaddie]

65. Sure...political affilliation doesn't preclude anyone from

being a devine asshole!!!

[dysfunctional press]

66. just because i think people deserve fair/equitable treatment, it doesn't mean i have to like them...

or even pretend to.

ESPECIALLY the whiny ones who think that we should all march in mental/emotional lockstep...i HATE those assholes.

[LanternWaste]

67. Civility knows no politics, nor does incivility...

Civility knows no politics, nor does incivility. Sometimes I look at it as an X Y axis thing, allowing me to befriend many conservatives, regardless of their ideology as long as they are honorable people; as it too allows me to dismiss many Democrats and progressives (and DU'ers) as merely ineffectual, self-serving, argumentative, trouble-makers... made all the worse because many of those in the latter category carry their dishonor as a trophy.

Insulting another person is just as dishonorable on the internet as it is face to face, but as long as the antithesis justification is held, people will continue to debase themselves on message forums as a hobby, and advertise a dramatic lack of class and manners.

[ContinentalOp]

85. That's interesting, I have almost the exact opposite point of view.

I have no desire to be friends with a racist, homophobic, right wing, fundamentalist wacko, no matter how nice and civil he is. I have many friends who are argumentative troublemakers though. At least I know they are good people though. You're essentially saying that someone's superficial outward behavior is more important than their deeper core beliefs.

[LanternWaste]

91. I'm not aware of being friends with any racists or homophobes.

I'm not aware of being friends with any racists or homophobes.



"You're essentially saying that someone's superficial outward behavior is more important than their deeper core beliefs."

Your inference rather than my implication (or simply a reductio ad absurdum). Whether a person is nice, kind, and decent is more important to me than whether he believes a free market is more effective than not.

[ContinentalOp]

94. But what is "nice, kind and decent"?

To me, you're nice, kind, and decent if you support gay marriage, a woman's right to choose, workers over corporations, the environment, and yes, market regulations that protect workers, the environment, equality in the workplace, etc. I don't care if you say please and thank you, sir and madam. I'd rather know a socially inept asshole who really cares about issues that matter than a genteel fascist.

And I've never met a conservative who wasn't racist or homophobic at some core level.

[LanternWaste]

135. Nor have I ever met a genteel fascist...

"And I've never met a conservative who wasn't racist or homophobic at some core level."
Try to get out more.

(Nor have I ever met a genteel fascist-- it would appear we run in completely different circles...)

Regardless, as you appear to be absolute in your justification of rude behavior, I see little reason to further the discussion as you will merely misinterpret again to better validate your own conclusions.

Thanks for your perspective. Rest assured I will allow it all the consideration it is due.

[Beetwasher]

120. Yup, And I'll Tell You What, I Don't Trust ANYONE Who's Constantly Blowing Sunshine And Roses Up My

Ass when I know they should be shit steaming angry about something. And I'm not saying that means when you're angry you should rave like a lunatic, either.

I like honest, real people. Phonies are phony because they're hiding something. Usually they're smiling and kissing your ass as they're preparing to shove a knife between the 3rd and 4th.

[LanternWaste]

136. I've often observed...

I've often observed that anger needs to be justified by the person after the fact, yet civility eschews it. That implies quite a bit to me.

Being honest and nice are not mutually exclusive.



But again, we justify what we need to to get through the day I imagine...

ed: sp

[GoneOffShore]

70. Let me see if I've got this straight.

As liberals we're supposed to be civil to everyone, no matter what kind of bullshit they espouse?
Be polite to idiots who have no grasp of reality?
Folks who have bought into the bogus, post Modernist view that all opinions have equal weight and that there is no such thing as objective truth?

Okay.

Fine.

[rcrush]

72. Yes

And PC to. You have to be ANNOYINGLY PC. Oops did I offend anyone just now?

[GoneOffShore]

74. Just me - Hitler.

[billyoc]

71. Of course.

[rustydog]

73. WOW, I couldn't disagree with you more

Some people, "Liberal" or "Conservative" Black or White, functionally illiterate and Rhodes Scholars do not suffer fools gladly and will curtly state their opposing views when they see what they deem to be ignorance or stupidity.

Niceness or politeness is not solely owned by liberal persons.

There are times I (this is face to face not posting in the safety of an internet forum) cut people off at the knees when they proudly display their ignorance with abandon. I still am a liberal whether they believe so or not.

[GoneOffShore]

75. OK - here's a link for you - if you can stand it.

Tim Minchin, the Australian singer-songwriter, excoriating a woo woo believer.

Tim is, I believe, a liberal with a small L. He doesn't suffer fools at all. And in this little gem is especially nasty to the woo woo set.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB_htqDCP-s

[orpupilofnature57]

79. If Liberty means more than Republic.

[ContinentalOp]

83. It's Janet

Mrs. Jackson if you're NASTY

[pipi_k]

87. Why not?

I mean, assuming all liberals are "nice people"...isn't that just as misguided as assuming all conservatives are assholes?


I've known some conservatives who are actually nicer than some liberals.


Personally, I think it's a matter of mental illness...all the nasty stuff that people say to each other. Why can't liberals be just as mentally ill as anyone? What, we got some sort of monopoly on mental health or something?

hah!

:+

[metalfox8]

88. look around you

Circumspice

[20score]

89. I get what you're saying and agree. (At least I think I do.) There is a big difference between not

suffering fools gladly, which is a not a bad characteristic, and just being an ass. I assume your post is addressing the latter, which is type of person that keeps me away from this site more and more.

When I first came to this site after lurking for years, I expected people to be on the same side generally, and debate with some respect for each other. There are a lot of good people on this site who do that, a big majority actually, but it only takes one or two pricks in a thread of twenty or so to ruin the whole damn thing. So, I just go back to sites like Fark where I know people will insult and I'm ready for a good argument.

i.e. I posted an anti-Fox News post here and had people twisting what was said and some that defended Fox News. I didn't expect that here. If I had posted that on Fark, I know there would have been arguments and that would have been fine. Anyway, between the asses and the reactionaries, it's becoming harder to spend time here, for me at least.

[Vidar]

90. Of course.

[Octafish]

92. Excellent post.

To me, a Democrat believes all people are created equal and uses the power of government to make life better for all Americans.
To me, a Progressive works to make life better for all people from matters of peace to economic justice to universal healthcare for all Americans.
To me, a Liberal works to effect positive change in the nation and world and respects and values all other people.

People who dump on others don't fit in with any of that.

[Wednesdays]

93. K&R

:kick:

[patrice]

95. Not really. Some people place a higher value on counting coup than they do on solving problems.

That's NOT Liberal.

[followthemoney]

96. That is like saying you can't be for peace if you smack ...

someone for being cruel to someone else just for their own personal enjoyment.

I smacked a thief standing over an old lady who he just knocked down and robbed. The police said I shouldn't have done it but I would do it again anyway because that shit shouldn't stand.

That looks like a contradiction only if you look at it in a really simplistic way.

[Stevenmarc]

103. Fuck yes

[ibegurpard]

106. Of course

everyone is capable of being rude and nasty...most of us are capable of it a great deal of the time.

[old mark]

112. Fuck you.......nt

[LeftishBrit]

115. Yes - being rude and nasty is a personality issue, not a political one

I do think that right-wingers are on average more likely to be rude and nasty because their ideology is pro-'toughness'. But anyone can be rude and nasty!

[JCMach1]

124. you are right, have known total a&&hole liberals and super nice Repugs

So, there is no hard and fast rule...

[Tim01]

117. The Dems were the "meanest bunch of motherfuckers I've ever run across,"

observes the invaluable investigative reporter James Ridgeway.

From the Ralph Nader documentary "An Unreasonable Man"

http://www.anunreasonableman.com/news.cfm?WhatID=56

[dropkickpa]

122. Yep

Nice and good are not the same.

[Jokerman]

125. My dad was a liberal, and an asshole.

He worked hard for progressive causes while treating the people close to him like shit.

So I guess I'd have to say yes.

[That Is Quite Enough]

126. Oh yes.

[Paladin]

132. I'm In Favor Of Civil Behavior.....

....as long as it doesn't translate into liberal wimpiness, allowing anything-goes conservatives to trample on us. Our natural inclination to be pleasant, to play by the rules, to not get down on an opponent's trashy level, is something that right-wingers expect from us, and they exploit it to the max, over and over again. I fully admit that I have called out my fellow liberals about this here at DU, and yes, I've been rude and nasty about it. If we're going up against some sub-human like Limbaugh, I want a Keith Olbermann leading the charge forward, not an Alan Colmes retreating to the rear......

[Jennicut]

133. Of course and nice people can be conservatives, as my parents are

They are truly misguided but would never hurt anyone intentionally.

[MrMickeysMom]

137. That sounds more like Democrats, not liberals...

... You know what I mean?

You don't?

Well... okay, fuckyouverymuch... :*

[Forkboy]

138. Well, I'm proof of that.

[Laelth]

139. Absolutely. A liberal can be as rude and nasty as any Nazi.

The proof is all around us.

:dem:

-Laelth

[AngryOldDem]

142. Sure. Liberals are human too.

And that's also why there's an Ignore feature.