Need a licence to drive a car. Need a license to fish. But any idiot can have a kid

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.swtimes.com/articles/2009/07/09/news/news070909_11.txt

Holiday Bomb Leads To Dad’s Arrest

By Amy Sherrill
Times Record • [e-mail]
Thursday, July 9, 2009 10:06 AM CDT

A Van Buren man who allegedly made a pipe bomb and detonated it on the Fourth of July in the presence of his 5-year-old son has been arrested, authorities said on Wednesday.

Eric Paul Route, 31, was arrested on suspicion of criminal use of a prohibited weapon, endangering the welfare of a minor in the first degree and obstructing governmental operations, said Lt. Brent Grill of the Van Buren Police Department.

The mother learned this when the two were driving by Lowe’s and the boy pointed to the store and told her that’s where he and his father had gone to purchase the pipe used to make the bomb.

Van Buren Police received a call from the mother who was concerned about the situation, Grill said.

[Warren Stupidity]

1. gungeon?

maybe we should have a kidgeon

[YOY]

2. What? Do you think any parent here would defend this moron?

I wouldn't.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. sure I will

a license to have a child is totalitarian bullshit

[phantom power]

4. I bet a lot of kids would appreciate having parents with better training.

Just sayin.

[Warren Stupidity]

22. so you are for a child bearing license?

[phantom power]

24. It would be more accurate to say "I think it would have some real benefits"

There are two reasons for using a "licensing" system. The first is to ensure some kind of standard of training. We require licenses for things like guns and driving cars because a properly trained population of gun owners and car drivers is a whole lot safer for society. To get a gun license or car license, you have to show that you have taken an approved training course.

So, applying that principle to having children, the idea would be that to get a license for having children, you would have to attend a course on parenting skills. My wife and I actually attended a few courses like that. They were mostly pragmatic skills like "how to bathe your infant" or "how to breast feed" or "what to expect during the first year" etc. However, there are also other kinds of skills. Like what kinds of techniques are successful for disciplining a child, or what to do with a child who is throwing a tantrum. I can say from experience that both parents and children benefit when the parents understand what kind of techniques are available.

Note that this first licensing principle does not in any way limit anybody's ability to have children, it just requires a rudimentary standard of training to help both parents and children.


The second reason for licensing systems is "resource control." Things like fishing licenses or deer tags are that kind of license. These provide a way to prevent overfishing and overhunting.

So, obviously if you apply that kind of principle to child bearing, you are talking about govt population control. Most people hate that idea, and words like "totalitarianism" or "fascism" or "eugenics" start getting thrown around. Whether one likes it or not, it's one possible approach to solving the world's population problem. Arguably not the best one, on the other hand better population control schemes like education and birth control are widely hated as well. So here we are.

[Fumesucker]

27. Who would you trust to make those decisions for what should be in a parenting license?

And what penalties would you advocate for those who bear children without such a license?

[phantom power]

29. I trust our government. Which is, as you recall, Us -- The People

Also, I don't generally expect to be perfectly pleased by everything my govt does, since no kind of govt legislation can possibly make 300 million people satisfied.

[Warren Stupidity]

30. Which is why we have a bill of rights to protect us from ourselves. nt

[phantom power]

32. I don't see how that line of reasoning is very productive...

We shouldn't allow the govt to try regulating anything important, because they might fuck it up? Maybe I misunderstand you, but that sounds a lot like the kind of argument that Republicans make whenever they don't want the govt regulating something.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. So you are unaware, for example, of Roe v Wade?

There are constitutional limits, hazily defined, regarding how intrusive government regulation of our bodies can be. Offhand, consensual adult sperm injection/reception crosses the line of what 'shall not be regulated'. There are exceptions, for example deliberate infection of unwitting partners by knowingly diseased individuals, rape, etc., but these exceptions are covered by other explicit laws.

[phantom power]

35. I think I see. You are arguing against a "population control" license.

Yes, I can see the argument. It's too intrusive to regulate our reproduction. I do not believe there are absolute answers to any of these questions. There are only decisions, and consequences. When it comes to population control, I'm pretty sympathetic to people who find the idea of the govt regulation repugnant.

On the other hand I also am of the personal opinion that we are either going to regulate our own population, as a human society, or nature is going to regulate it for us. And that's why I bother to bring it up. Because when nature regulates our population, it gets regulated by the Four Horsemen. If you consider that as the alternative, govt regulation of population starts to look like a perfectly reasonable alternative.

[Warren Stupidity]

36. Countries that educate and care for their people have low birth rates

It is an odd fact that there is a general correlation between 'quality of life' indices and acceptably low birth rates. We don't have to take the Chinese path, we just have to build a more caring and secure society and people will voluntarily lower their birth rates.

[Fumesucker]

31. LOL.. You like the Iraq war?

The drug war?

What's going on in Congress right now?

Government, like fire, is a powerful tool but a fearsome master.

[YOY]

13. Not about that.

About making an illegal bombs in front of his kid.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. Did you read the OP? See, for example, the title of the OP.

If you would like to have a different discussion, for example about the license requirements for bomb making, please start one.

[YOY]

38. Take it up with Don.

n.t.

[Jim Sagle]

20. Eugenics seems so godlike in the abstract. The Devil is in the details.

As I thought we already knew.

[seabeyond]

7. i will. child not hurt. so parent did his job. bomb illegal to make, arrest for that

there are a lot of things that could "possibly" harm a child. we hope parent will be will versed in safety measures to insure the safety of a child, not that we insist the child is not allowed to be around anything that is dangerous.

[MadHound]

5. Oh geez, you would have a heart attack at what happened in my childhood

Hell, my uncle made a miniature stainless steel, fully functioning cannon that we fired off at least once a year, in the backyard, in a crowded suburb. We're all pyromaniacs, and have blown up many things for the hell of it. One of my cousins has gone on to make a good life for himself and his family doing fireworks shows, owns a fireworks business, and makes his own fireworks. Another is out in Hollywood, blowing things up for the movies.

If proper precautions are taken, I see no harm in this.

[NNN0LHI]

18. Did your uncle ever show you how to make and detonate pipe bombs together with you when you were 5?

[snooper2]

23. Like a 5 year old is going to have the skill to re-produce the "bomb"

:eyes:

[Tan Gent]

40. A pipe bomb is a terrorist weapon. A stick of dynamite is a mining tool.

...

[Johonny]

6. In most places kids don't need fishing license

I sense a conspiracy.

[PreacherCasey]

8. Wonderful. A 5 year old inadvertently tattles on his Father, Mother has the Father arrested!

Let's arrest everyone who sets of cherry bombs and 1/4 sticks in the presence of the kids on the 4th. There's plenty of room for them in prison next to the millions of non-violent drug offenders.
Perhaps this Mother should call the police the next time her husband cruises through a stop sign.

There are ways for families to settle their disputes without bringing the state into it. Our seemingly increasing inability to handle things on our own worries me.

Regarding your title, I assume you agree with this mother's actions and are joking about the licenses because you think the father is an idiot. I get it. But, I cringe at the thought of someone actually advocating some sort of screening or licensing process for child-rearing.

*Edit - spelling

[seabeyond]

9. i agree. i am more bothered with mom. n/t

[NNN0LHI]

15. You think mom should have just ignored it?

[seabeyond]

16. i would not have had the cops arrest father. it is dependent on SOOOO much.

i cannot even begin to guess. all kinds of things are relevant that i dont have the information on to make an informed accessment of the situation. TOO many things would factor in.

like is the father very capable, protective and responsible with child and mother mad at x.... i dont know anything about the situation

i also tend to feel that we make our choice who to reproduce with and have to suck shit up a bit, cause after all, we made the choice. if you have a stupid ass mate that you have a child with, then expect stupid ass. father has right to child. cant keep child from father. he is EQUAL parent to child

i dont know

[NNN0LHI]

10. Christ I never expected to find a pro-pipe bomb crowd here

Never fails.

Don

[seabeyond]

11. not about the pipe bomb. dont like them, dont do them, ever... and never would i allow a child

around a pipe bomb.

[snooper2]

28. I'm more of an oxygen and acetylene guy myself

:rofl:

Never blew a trailer up like this though :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gsCuQthy60

[Fumesucker]

12. Who would you trust to make the decision as to which people may reproduce?

Congress?

GW Bush?

[slackmaster]

14. That's a whole lot better than the man who had his 5th grade son help get rid of a dead hooker

:shrug:

[Soylent Brice]

17. link please.

lol

[slackmaster]

25. As you wish...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,530662,00.html?test=latestnews

[Soylent Brice]

34. WOW. you're like a genie!

did you scrub down after treading through FAUX? lol

[elocs]

19. Ultimately, how many here would like it

if it were the freepers and right wing evangelicals who got to make the rules for a license to be a parent? Yeah, I thought so.

[Fumesucker]

26. Given what I've seen around here lately?

More than just a few.

[rateyes]

37. I'm not sure about a license to have kids, but a license to

have sex, I'll go along with. And, I will volunteer to be the person who does the "road test" for all the straight female applicants. :sarcasm: :evilgrin:

[Thothmes]

39. Homo sapiens

has been having children for around 100,000 years before the invention of the automobile or the fishing license. Don't think you will change the system.

[The Straight Story]

41. Why not a license to have sex - your body can carry diseases

Regular testing, track who you have sex with and put it in a national database...