The story about the black children not allowed in the pool

[ClusterFreak]

...at that club in Pennsylvania was just on CNN....

The little boy Marcus who Susan Candiotti interviewed...who was crying...it was absolutely heartbreaking when he said he didn't think people were like that anymore...

Not enough room for them, huh?

It may be 2009 but in some people's minds it's still a back of the bus mentality. Absolutely disgusting.

:grr:


edit: to fix spelling

[nc4bo]

1. Nope, not enough room.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Only 30 people protested? I think that's as sad as the incident itself. :^(

Was it a lack of getting the word out or did people just not care?

(Kudos and much love to the people who _were_ there, though.)

[nc4bo]

5. I wish there'd been more people there. Short notice may have alot to do with it.

I'm going to give a few more days and see if some good old community organizing might come into play.

[LynneSin]

29. Perhaps if they had the protest over the weekend I might have gone

hosting protests during regular business hours tend to have low turnout unfortunately.

I mean we do care but we also need to keep our jobs too :cry:

[TorchTheWitch]

114. it's a racist area

I'm more surprised that as many as 30 protested particularly on such short notice.

[oldcpu70]

6. Not against the law

Sadly, this despicable action by the Swim Club is not against
the law in most states. Many private clubs still discriminate
against people of color, Jews, women, etc.

[nc4bo]

8. Bullshit. They had an open invitation for groups to sign up.

I'd say that they just voluntarily forfeited their "private" status in favor of $$.

There was NO problem with them accepting $1900 for 65 kids to swim however there was a HUGE problem with 65 darkskinned showed up to crash the pale party.

Have you looked at the video of the kids? Did you listen to what those little kids said they overheard?

To Cover Their Asses, the club has now put an end to all day camp contracts.

[Matariki]

10. I tried to get a friend of mine to sponsor me as a member to Prince Hall

but it was a no go ;-)

[Maru Kitteh]

13. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. Yes it is

because they advertised to rent out their pool.

[Iggo]

31. Welcome to DU.

Enjoy your stay.

:patriot:

[Hansel]

112. Yes it is against the law. Because they opened the pool to the general public

to lease. They were not acting in the capacity of a private club in this case so it is actionable.

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. The memberships that should have been revoked should be those

who complained.

And rather than 'revoked', they should have been simply told 'this is the way it is - if you don't like it you don't need to come here'.

[jasi2006]

2. Truly sad but indicative of the racism that is still with us.

I only hope that something good will come from this.

[BlooInBloo]

3. That might be what gets me most about racism: hearing black kids' reaction...

The first time they experience what America is like.

:(

Poor kid.

[Solomon]

16. Oh, I'm 54 years old and I could cry you a river about the

psychic scars on my soul from being exposed to racism. There's no way to describe how devastating it is to a child. I will never forget the day I learned about it. Seared in my mind as though it happened yesterday. I was all of 6 years old and had no clue that people had different colors. After that, all you see is the colors.

[BlooInBloo]

20. That's about what I've heard.

[Number23]

43. "After that, all you see is the colors."

Exactly.

And that's the precise moment that people (who have never experienced systemic, institutionalized racial discrimination) start accusing you being too "race sensitive." :eyes:

[AspenRose]

7. If I hear "post-racial America" ONE MORE TIME I will scream.

"Post-racial" my ass. If anything, the racists are becoming more defiant.

[Obamanaut]

26. And it would appear that it is not limited to the south. nt

[Rebubula]

30. One of the biggest misconceptions

Is that racism is only in the South.

Boston is the most racist city in the country - and I grew up in Georgia.

Moreover, racism is certainly NOT limited to white\black...it is a worldwide problem in many horrible forms. To think of racism in only black\white terms is to be willfully ignorant of the plight of the world.

[AllieB]

71. Boston was one of the most racist cities. You have to go to the exurbs now.

Boston is majority non-white and immigrant now. It has changed dramatically in a demographic sense in 30 years. The racists all fled to the lily white suburbs and exurbs, including New Hampshire, in the 70s and 80s. Racism and anti-immigrant sentiment is not confined to the South. You should see some of the bumper stickers and confederate flags in rural PA, ME, NH.

[Raineyb]

61. Who the hell said it was only in the South?

I'm pretty damn sure you're not hearing black people saying that. But then people around here don't "listen" all that well.

[voc]

104. It is necessary...

To continue the fantasy for those who fool themselves into
believing the race prob is solved.

meh

[SteelPenguin]

9. I'm still not convinced it's 'racism' per se

It's more 'classism' I think. If an affluent black family had gone to the pool, I don't think anyone would have said a word, or minded.

These swim clubs tend to be quieter family places. The people go there expecting a modicum of peace. Sure a few kids squealing and splashing in the pool, but nothing too much. I've been to a few of them. They tend to be fairly quiet, lots of people reading or getting sun by the pool, a few kids in...certain times some people doing laps, etc. Quiet, peacefull.

Now add 65 inner city kids who happen to be black into it and say "go have fun".

I'm sure the 'feel' of the place changed, not because of skin color, but just because there were all of a sudden 65 more kids than were there before all going absolutely nuts to be having fun in such a great pool. It's not the kids fault that their lives suck, and that they all of a sudden are lucky enough to be enjoying a nice pool on a nice day and having fun doing it.

Suddenly though the 'peacefulness' that the other patrons expected is gone, and as good well off white people are wont to do, particularly the upper middle class wannabes, they bitch about it. Why are all these kids suddenly ruining their pool experience by screaming and splashing and having fun.

I dunno. I think it's totally a dick move on their part, but I'm not convinced that it was racism so much as a sort of exclusionary classism. They'd have gotten pissy if it was 65 raucus white kids too tearing up the place, you'd just never hear about it on the news.

I know people will disagree with that, but I'm just not convinced it was racism.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

12. Elsewhere it was pointed out that ALL outside groups were dropped, not just this one

also claims that the club manager was over ruled by the membership

[SteelPenguin]

14. Yeah

I mean I'm not flat out writing it off as NOT racism, but I don't think there is enough evidence for me to get on board with it unless I read something that I haven't yet on the situation.

I think the swim club just simply wasn't thinking when they signed up the group of 65, or from the description it was done online, so I don't even know that a person was involved. They might have a website where it says "how many memberships would you like" and there is a text box, and you put in a number and it automatically calcuates the memberships and how much it would cost. There'd be no human looking at it at all.

Then suddenly one summer day at an otherwise quiet and peacefull private swim club 65 kids show up and go hog wild having fun, which heck I think any kid their age would do if they got the chance to go swimming on a hot summer day...or even a cold summer day. ;) They're kids.

And the membership goes nuts about it saying "This is a community family pool, and suddenly there were 65 kids filling that pool up, splashing, jumping, playing roughly and I don't feel like it's safe to let my younger child in there."....not for any racial reasons just because it probably ISNT safe for you to put a 6 year old in a small pool with 65 10 year olds swimming about, regardless of race.

I dunno. I can EASILY see that happening before the racist middle class white people want to exclude black folk from their private swim club. Occam's razor sort of thing.

Who knows though.

[Jazzgirl]

23. It never ceases to amaze me that people still don't want to

admit the US is still extremely racist. During the presidential campaign I had a couple of incidents occur that were really obviously racist. I was telling people at work about it and they just didn't want to accept it because "things are better now". Be in my world for a minute.

[SteelPenguin]

25. Did I say that there is no racism in this country?

Did I say that 'things are better now'?

Just because racism exists doesn't mean that anytime something happens it's because of racism. If you're black and going 20 miles per hour over the speed limit it doesn't mean that you're being pulled over by a racist white cop because you are driving while black. At the same time just because that guy speeds, doesn't mean that other black guys ARENT pulled over simply because they're driving in the wrong neighborhood.

I'm not ignorant enough to say something like racism doesn't exist in this country anymore, but at the same time I'm not going to knee jerk and scream racism anytime something bad happens to anyone non-white.

[MajorChode]

32. I can't go along with "extremely" racist

Just looking at where the US is today vs when I was a kid there is a huge difference, and in the decade or two before I was born there was another order of magnitude of change. Blacks make up just 14% of the US population, yet we have a black president.

Certainly there are some who are extreme racists, but for the most part they are quite covert about it as such is just not accepted any more by the mainstream population. That's what leads me to believe there is probably more to the story here. If it is genuine racism, then I have no sympathy for whatever bad things happen to the club as a result. If it's something else and the group is simply making a false or inflated complaint, then I feel sorry for the kids that are being used as pawns.

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. I stopped counting the number of people I called while phone banking last year

who said "I am Not voting for any nigger!"


Racism. Alive and well in the grand ole USA.

[Patchuli]

38. If it was racially-motivated

then that is totally wrong but it may have been what has been previously suggested. At my health club, people will bring their kids for basically cheap entertainment. That's fine but when those kids prevent anyone else from enjoying the pool and in my case, their parents do nothing to teach them pool manners, I want the kids out too. I do laps...I don't take up much room and I'm always considerate of others in the pool. I would be perfectly willing to share the pool with the kidlets but they won't share with the adults who just want to swim. You have kids cannonballing into your path, swimming across your lane and basically preventing you from using the pool in any serious manner. My club finally made adult swim time for a few hours early a.m. and from 6:00 to 8:00 pm. I have heard parents complain that that is "not fair" but they got the pool for family swim time for 8 or 9 hours uninterrupted. Some people think they are entitled to inflict their offspring on anyone.

Now if this story is indeed a race issue, I wouldn't mind seeing the place go up in flames, figuratively speaking of course!

[RamboLiberal]

15. One of the pool's members says it was racism

But another member, Walt (who asked me to withhold his last name), is adamant that the pool's board caved to racial tensions that he himself clearly observed when Wright brought her campers to Valley Club for their one and only visit.

"It was obvious to me what was going on," he said.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/50440447.html?cmpid=15585797

You do have a point that I'd bet if it was an upper class black family they would've admitted them - clubs like this like to point out - "Oh look, we're not racist, why we have a black family, and East-Asian families, etc."

It probably was a combination of racism & classism.

[SteelPenguin]

19. Yeah, I mean no offense to Walt

But there's always someone who reads into everything. It sounds like he's interpreting things his own way there, honestly. "It was obvious to me what was going on" reads to me as "Well they said it was because they crowded the pool, but they're black so it's obvious to me it's racism." even though there's no basis for it.

Other stuff from that article...

Some Valley members who contacted me were frustrated that their president, John Duesler, whom they described as "a good guy," was so bumbling in his statements regarding the allegations. (NBC-TV10 had reported that Duesler said the campers changed "the complexion" of the club).

"He used all the wrong words," sighed one mom, who protested the campers' presence only because their numbers crowded the club.

ie "John is a good guy, but he's making us sound totally evil. He shouldn't be on camera." And lets be fair. This guy isn't a PR maestro...He's the president of a small suburban swim club. Dollars to donuts he's not necessarily the brightest bulb.

"The board invited campers without consulting members first," said the woman, who asked that her name not be used. "The problem was between the members and the board, not the members and the campers, to be honest."

Again it sounds to me like the members joined a quiet local swim club and the place got overrun by a ton of kids all at once and it wasn't what people signed up for.

At least one other local camp, Storybook Children's Center, was also disinvited from the club, the center's director, Kelly Maguire, told me yesterday. She said that Duesler said the club had underestimated the impact campers would make.

Again fits with the 'shit we didn't think about what it would actually be like to have 65 kids here at once'. motif. Granted if a place was trying to protect themselves from racism they'd do the same thing and just eliminate all groups, but still...

Walt's feelings are valid, but at the same time, just because he saw a white woman hurredly scoop her young white child from a pool getting cannonballed by 65 black youths might LOOK bad, but it isn't necessarily racism. He might SEE it as such, but that's his own past and thoughts coloring his opinions.

I dunno. I'm still not seeing anything that reads more than an understandable level of incompetence and lack of PR skills in the pool management, and a membership that in general wants more peace and quiet than 65 pre-teens would create.

[RamboLiberal]

17. The dumbasses at the pool signed the contract

It was only for 90 minutes each Monday (which probably is a very slow uncrowded day at the pool) for only about 8 weeks(last day for the kids was supposed to be Aug 10th). I imagine the other day cares had a similiar contract.

They should've just honored the damn contracts and if it was a problem for them then just don't offer this kind of contract next year.

Now imagine the money they will lose in bad publicity and attorney's fees.

[SteelPenguin]

21. Oh absolutely

I don't know if I'd label this as racism from what I've read...just more general incompetence on the part of the pool management from start to finish.

[Karenina]

27. The whole debacle could have been SO EASILY avoided

had the pool's managers had simply INFORMED the members of the club of the summer "rent-out" schedule. :dunce:

[tech3149]

39. Racism, classism, or otherwise

I bet the members are going to pitch a fit when their membership cost goes up because of the lost income. Having worked in the area, I say let them stew in their own juices.

[notesdev]

85. The contract contraindicates racism

If the club were really racist it would never have signed a contract with the camp, would it?

[Raineyb]

90. It does no such thing

The fact that upon seeing who was coming in on the days contracted the club canceled the contract shows its true colors. As does your bending yourself into knots to make excuses shows YOUR true colors.

[ClusterFreak]

28. I'm convinced.

The complaints weren't that "There's a bunch of children from lower socio-economic strata splashing around in the pool"...they were there are a bunch of "black kids".

[SteelPenguin]

34. I didn't see any specific statements like that

If I was a member of a quiet private neighborhood pool club where I took my 5 year old daughter on my day off, which happened to be a Monday, and it had always been a quite and peacefull pool club, and suddenly 65 10 year old swarmed the pool, and I'd not been informed about it, I'd consider complaining as well.

If I were to describe the situation and it was that I was enjoying a peaceful morning at the pool with my daughter, when suddenly 65 black kids showed up and It was just too crowded, splashy, etc, for my daughter to actually enjoy the pool, and I complained about it, would it make me a racist for saying so? The regular patrons weren't informed of it, and it was in itself a pretty stupid thing to let groups that size in the pool (the pictures make it out to be not that big when you consider 65 kids in it).

Racism is alive and well in america, but so is Incompetence, and everything I've read (other than a few non-participant 'observations') reads to me like the pool management fucked up in both renting out the pool to groups and realizing the impact it would have, and then over-reacting to get themselves out of it, and ending up in a bigger fucking hole.

[kwassa]

35. How about thes specific statements?

I find it fascinating that you go to such great lengths to find an excuse for this behavior based only on your speculations. This says something about your biases.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/parenting/2009/07/black_children_kicked_out_of_p.html?hpid=news-col-blog

Camper Dymire Baylor told NBC:

"I heard this lady, she was like, 'Uh, what are all these black kids doing here?' She's like, 'I'm scared they might do something to my child.' "

Horace Gibson, a parent of a camper told NBC that "The pool attendants came and told the black children that they did not allow minorities in the club and needed the children to leave immediately." And on Tuesday, the swim club's president issued a statement saying, "There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club."

The camp kids arrived and got into the pool. Valley Swim Club member and eyewitness Jan told talk radio host Michael Smerconish that the campers were behaving nicely and were well supervised:.

"We came in as the campers were there. I joined campers with my grandson . The children were playing. It was very crowded. ... It was important for me to watch him because there were so many children there. It was crowded, but there were at least two adult counselors. The pool had 2 lifeguards on either side of this area of the pool, which is only 3 feet deep. And there was also a supervisor who called these children out when it was time to leave. It was a very orderly dispensement. She called first for the female campers and then the male campers. It was so orderly and so well regulated both by the part of the staff of the camp and the pool, I knew of no problems.

The children were speaking so nicely with one another. They were conversing back and forth in such a nice manner. ... I don't think it would be a big problem that there were a lot of people there."

[SteelPenguin]

53. Here's my problem with those statements

I don't like hearsay, and those statements are nothing but. One of the parents of one of the campers said that...but wait he wasn't actually there. So he's repeating what his son told him. And who knows if his son embellished it, or whether he was just repeating what HE heard.

Also the first statement could easily also be misinterpreted as racism when it's just a person who thought they belonged to a quiet swim club and suddenly the place was packed.

I find it fascinating that so many people on this board and elsewhere are so instantly ready to condem people as guilty when all they've read and heard about it are cherry picked reports. I'm not saying racism wasn't involved here. I just can very easily see how it could not have been racism at all, but reacted to that way, and so I'm not prepared to make declarations about what happened there.

Racism is a horrible thing. I know from personal experience what it's like to have a gang of white kids surround you and then physically attack you. To knock you off your bike just because you're not white, and destroy your bike while holding you down and laughing.

I also know that false witness and hearsay are horrible things, and can just as easily destroy people and their lives.

I'm not prepared to jump to any type of conclusions about these people, particularly when it makes more sense to me that these people weren't acting as racists but more as....well just assholes. Greedy selfish assholes who like their quiet little club, and don't like it innundated by massive groups of kids, regardless of color.

People saying this guy said that, and I heard from my son that another guy said this, and the like just don't do it for me. Show me that the swim club has had other groups of that size going there regularly all summer, or for years, with zero complaints, and then that this is the first time with the kids being black and I'll change my tune, and help burn the place to the ground. I'm just not comfortable doing it based on information gleaned from a souped up telephone game.

[ThomCat]

59. It sounds like you're going to bend over backwards to

avoid seeing or hearing racism, no matter what. How blatant does it have to be before you consider it racism?

What you consider hearsay is pretty damning first hand proof.

It is very easy to create some imaginary exception that means that it possibly might not be racism, but all you're doing is defending, denying, justifying, pretending, covering up. This is why it's so hard to get a lot of people to actually do anything about prejudice, because they play a lot of mental games to pretend that prejudice isn't really prejudice, or some perfect level of knowledge hasn't been achieved before we can know with academic certainty that that is was a specific type of prejudice is an specific form.

Stop making excuses and defending the indefensible.

A group of Black and Hispanic kids walked in, and according to all reports people saw them and started freaking out because they saw a group of Black and Hispanic kids. Not because someone checked their parent's tax returns and became suddenly outraged over their low incomes, or because anyone reported that they were making more noise than any other kids (or were even there long enough to make much noise), or because of any of the other excuses.

The kids came in, were seen, and the the membership was in an uproar with white parents fearing for their white kids. They even Said so. How much more blatant can it get?

[Raineyb]

64. Thank you ThomCat

I wish I could say that I was surprised by the amount of twisting some people do on in order to avoid seeing what's right in front of their noses. Considering how utterly blatant this incident was it does not give me any hope for the future.

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. "There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club."

That's a direct quote. Not hearsay.

[ClusterFreak]

41. "...suddenly 65 black kids showed up..."

Really?

If they were all white kids would you say 65 'white kids'?

Just asking.

Splashing kids are splashing kids aren't they?

[SteelPenguin]

51. If it set them apart sure

If this were in my neighborhood at the public pool we go to and 65 white kids showed up on mass we'd describe it as 'and then 65 white kids showed up' because it wouldn't be normal and mentioning that they were white would be part of the key to why it was odd.

I have no problem with splashing kids. I'm just saying that 10 year olds don't necessarily mind younger kids all that well when they're horsing around, and a 5 year old can run into trouble and get overwhealmed in such a situation, regardless of the color of any of their skins.

[proud2BlibKansan]

75. "There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club."

[varelse]

91. "65 black kids showed up"

"I'm not a racist, but...". *sigh*

[noamnety]

110. What's wrong with your assumption:

I could believe your argument, except for one small thing. Once it became apparent that there was going to be a problem here, they could have easily made the offer to allow the kids in but in smaller groups at a time. Instead of 65 kids, 20 on Monday, 20 on Wednesday, the rest on Friday.

Maybe the day camp could have managed transportation issues around that, maybe not. Maybe they would have had to reject that offer.

But the fact is, the club never made the offer to let them come in smaller groups. Their position was that they didn't want them there at all, in any numbers.

[Lilyeye]

48. It wasn't an affluent area.

A woman was on the The Michael Smerconish Morning Show and she claimed the area of the club is blue-collar and most of the vistors are. I don't know how true that is since I don't live there, but here is the link to the radio show. The woman also said the children were well-behaved.
http://thebigtalker1210.com/pages/3968525.php

[SteelPenguin]

52. I heard it was upper middle class

Not country club rich or anything, but not blue collar by any means.

Also I'm sure the kids were fine and well behaved, but at the same time no matter how well behaved kids are if 65 of them show up out of nowhere it's going to still be loud and a shock to people who went to the pool for a quiet morning swim with their kids. I seriously doubt any of the kids were any kind of problem. From the sounds of it they were thrilled to be there.

[Lilyeye]

55. I am only repeating what was said by the women who was there that day with her grandson.

She said it wasn't an affluent area. She said most of the people who live in the area and attend the pool are nurses, cops, firefighters etc. If there is anyone on the board who lives in the area, what is this area like?

[SteelPenguin]

57. Here's some real estate listings

http://www.homesandland.com/Real_Estate/PA/City/Huntingdon_Valley/Page.html

Quarter Million to 1.2 Million dollar homes. Most over half a million.

But yeah I'd be curious to hear from someone who lives in the area.

[Raineyb]

63. Why do people insist on trying to convince themselves that a racist incident is probably

more to do with class? They didn't want those kids in their pool because they were black. The class bullshit, and it is bullshit, is a cover. It's not about class it's race. I'm sure that their precious overindulged brats are just as rowdy in the pool. Why because kids get rowdy when let loose in places like that. Hell adults get rowdy in pools too. The difference is when 65 white kids get rowdy in a pool these racist asshats say "isn't that special" and when it's 65 black kids they say "OMG the Negroes are here! What are they going to do to our precious pool?" as though the children are some kind of alien as opposed to fellow humans.

It is not repeat not about class. Racism is not, and has never been merely a individual failing. It's a systemic problem. Your problem is you seem to be under the impression that it's a matter of correcting for a "few racists" when it's the whole bloody society and our societal infrastructure that's the problem and as long as you, and others like you, refuse to take a systemic view of the problem not a bloody thing will be corrected. And the next time something like this happens, and there will be a next time because despite having elected a black man this country hasn't changed all that much, you will be piping up on yet another thread about some racist incident and claiming it's to do with class, once again completely missing the point.

[bliss_eternal]

67. Simple, because they "choose" to do so.

They choose to do so, because they don't want to see the things as they are. It's easier to second guess, diminish and undermine other's impressions than to admit the cold, hard truth.

[Raineyb]

68. You are nicer than I am

I probably would just say because they have their heads up their asses.

I've never been very diplomatic. :shrug:

[bliss_eternal]

66. Then you are deluding yourself...

...and clearly you don't live in skin of color. It's just that simple. Though there are people reading this thread, that don't live in skin of color, that quite clearly see this as racism.

But it's still your choice to see it as you do, as opposed to seeing the reality.

[notesdev]

72. I agree with you

it's perfectly plausible that 65 children added to a pool would change the atmosphere no matter what color the kids were.

This "white people are assumed racist until proven otherwise" crap is getting old.

[marmar]

74. The level of denial when it comes to racism is rather astounding.

Your post is a classic case study.

[notesdev]

81. I think you're in denial

that people in this country simply aren't racist like it was 50 years ago.

shouting "racism" is an easy answer, as anti-intellectual as it is often wrong. Just because two people or groups on different sides of an issue may be of different ethnicities doesn't mean their disputes are driven by ethniticy.

[marmar]

82. Nobody is saying the level of racism is the same as 50 years ago....

.... but this incident was CLEARLY racist, and there's still a great deal of racism in America. By trying to pretend that's not the case will just make the process of overcoming it grind along that much more slowly.

[notesdev]

83. I just don't see the proof

I live in a development with a private pool. Normally the pool is pretty quiet. If I went to the pool and found it full of dozens of kids that weren't the kids of other residents here, I would wonder WTF was going on, too. I pay for the pool maintenance and if it wasn't available to me when it should have, then I'd have a legitimate argument that I didn't get what I paid for, would I not?

[marmar]

84. They collected $1,900 from the group..it wasn't until they got there and saw what they looked like..

.... that they decided that they didn't want them there.

But you know what, if you don't want to see something, you're not going to. Even some of the parents of the kids who were regulars at the club said there was plenty of space in the pool for the campers.

[Raineyb]

88. If you don't see it then you have your head up your ass.

There's just no nice way to put it.

Thanks for nothing you might as well align yourself with freepers on this issue.

[notesdev]

107. Show some proof then

The sum total of the accusations amounts to hearsay only; I'm supposed to accept as self-evident an argument that would be thrown out of court for lack of valid evidence in a heartbeat? That's not enough to make a plausible assertion, given that there is a perfectly reasonable explanation that doesn't require it.

Five dozen plus kids is a lot of fucking kids. That group is going to make an impact wherever they go, and it doesn't matter one whit what color anyone is.

[Raineyb]

87. Your denial is disgusting

What we have here is the most blatant version of racism you'll see and you still don't want to see it? You're not serious about fighting racism you're perfectly comfortable with allowing it to continue.

Disgusting.

[Karenina]

Ever find that the denial makes you go

:nuke::nuke: even MORE than the incident itself? ;-)

[Karenina]

105. Ever find that the denial makes you go

:nuke: even MORE than the incident itself? ;-)

[Raineyb]

108. In fact I do.

With outright bigots you can easily dismiss them. The ones who claim not to be yet bend over backwards in their refusal to see are infuriating. They keep asking for proof then refuse to see what the hell is right in front of them. How many circular conversations can you involve yourself with and still stay sane?

[Karenina]

106. See, even cyberspace feels the glitch!!!

:nuke::nuke::nuke:

[Kickin_Donkey]

98. FAIL ...

The writing is clearly on the wall. To deny there's racism shows your own colors. This white supremacist crap is getting old.

[marmar]

73. Puh-leaze.....

[nini]

94. I think it was part a safety issue that was handled in a racist way

If the children in question were white you can be sure this would have been handled with a lot more decency.

[clarence swinney]

22. RACISM IS ALIVE IN AMERICA

Visit me.
Section Upper Middle Class called Beverly Hills.
Now called Hispanicville.

Bothers many people.

I was utterly amazed and disgusted when I had a group of former Managers in my home for lunch.

One started a hit on Hispanic. Each joined in with smears on Blacks/Hispanics.

It hurt me very much.

I wanted to tell them to get out of my home and never speak to me again.

We had been so close for decades.

One my very best friend for 35 years.

I hear snide racism in restaurants and even in churches.

Golf pal/childhood pal was usher in church. No one hated blacks more.He was sicko.

I enjoy my Hispanic friends.
Kids are my best pals.
Nicest people. El Salvador. Costa Rico. Mexico.

They are GOOOOOD people.

I have been to Mexico-Puerto Rico many times-Nassau--St. Thomas.

Our employees in Puerto Rico were good workers and I found only nice people.
One of my joys was seeing kids go to school.
They looked so clean and happy.
Boys wore white shirts and black trousers. Girl wore white blouses and black skirts.

I enjoyed that sight very very much.

Learn to associate with them and you will learn truth.

RED NECKS=avoid them

[e-mail]

p.s. Prejudice left me in Air Force in 1940s. Denver. To Dance. Hispanic pal could not go in.I wanted to kill.Good looking nicest guy on earth.

Back at base I was faced by Yankees who quizzed me about my background.

In North Carolina do you:

Go to school with blacks?
Go to church with blacks?
Work with blacks?
Associate with blacks?
Go to dances with blacks?

LESSON LEARNED. Quickly.

I had never thought about it.

I had Black pals and we swam and played baseball together--in A Black Community.
In town they stayed off main street.
I went to another street to talk with them.
They went in back doors to stores on Main street.

DAMN PETTINESS

What would Jesus say?

[Johonny]

24. this reminds me of a Groucho story

Where he explained to the pool attendant his kid was only half Jewish so could he swim up to his waist.

[lolly]

37. LOL

I remember that story--talk about dealing with pain with laughter.

I even stole it once. One day one of my daughter's young friends (5 or 6?) told my daughter that she couldn't have any matzoh ball soup because it was only Jewish food, so I replied--"OK, she'll just have 1/2 a bowl then!" (hubby is Jewish)

Of course, both kids just gave me one of those "huh?" looks . . .

[Fire1]

33. I blame the parents of these children. How on earth can

you let a child go out into this U.S. of A and NOT tell them that racism is ALIVE AND WELL! Furthermore, I blame the ADULTS who took them to this club. Somebody was asleep at the wheel.

[TommyO]

46. Excuse me, but you're blaming the victims here

Where's your blame for the people who actually confronted them? Where is your blame for the club itself?

No, you blame the parents and custodians of the children.

That's bullshit.

[Raineyb]

65. Actually she's blaming the parents for not preparing their children and the club for being bigots.

And rightly so too because otherwise it hits harder when it's learned this way. As for bigots, well they don't give a shit about hurting people's children insofar as they recognize these children as children and not merely baby animals. This is the worse way to learn about what's out in the real world. Better to have the chat so they aren't slapped in the face with it later as these children were.

Personally, I've recently had to have "the chat" with my nephew.

I knew what the word prejudiced meant at an early age and while I was rather precocious as a child that's not the reason why I had to learn what it meant.

[Fire1]

70. Thank you Raineyb. Nexr time I'll 'break it down.' lol!!

[DefenseLawyer]

58. So they should have known their place?

Is that what you are saying?

[Raineyb]

69. No.

But they should be warned about certain types of white people, their views, and the institutions which help enforce said views and how to avoid being victimized more often. (Can't say avoid being victimized all together because that's not realistic.)

[The Doctor.]

36. God. Fucking. Damn it.

Seriously.

I know so many brilliant, beautiful, intellectual people who are Black, Asian, Hispanic, Jewish (yes; it's an identity, most Jewish men agree while their wives argue with them about it), I can't fucking abide this bullshit.

These kids are forced into a world of inequality and racism where they could have otherwise experienced just being kids.

Personally, I'd like to pommel the morons that made the call.

Make no mistake; the asshole is on my list of people to talk to for the sake of enlightenment one day.

[applegrove]

40. It took me a full 24 hours to get up the guts to look at those treads on the icident.

I thought the USA was over such blatant discrimination.

[RamboLiberal]

42. Found a cache of their home page from 2007

http://web.archive.org/web/20070814083246/http://www.thevalleyclub.com/index.html

Looks pretty darn white to me.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070814083246/

[Number23]

44. Yep. Even the damn satellite is white

Do they seem pretty effing proud of the fact that their membership is overwhelmingly white, or what??

All I'd need to do is see that web site to know that this would be the last place in the world I'd go and take my family.

[SteelPenguin]

54. Well I know one thing

They need a better web designer.

[DefenseLawyer]

45. Not to make light of this sad, disgusting affair

but I am reminded of the film Caddyshack when the Country Club had "Caddies Day" at the pool, with the sign reading "Caddies Welcome- 1:00 to 1:15".

[FrenchieCat]

47. This was so fucked up, it ain't even funny.

Children are supposed to be protected in their youth,
not humiliated because of their skin color!

And those who say that if it had been a bunch of rich black kids,
it would have been ok...so this is about class; that's pure speculation.
How do you know how rich those 65 kids were?
Did the White folks ask to see their bank balance
before making their racist ass statements?
Don't think so.

The point is that is was a "lot" of Black and Hispanic Kids
as far as those racists were concerned.


That makes this about race, and not about class!
That Club should be sued for all it's worth,
and then it could be about money...
just like some here want to claim!

[JI7]

49. yeah, i don't think the white people were wealthy types also

it certainly was about race. as you say, how would they know what class the kids were.

[varelse]

92. There's an awful lot of DU's ugly underbelly showing here

I should not be surprised, I am very disappointed in us right now. Apparently the club changed their official reason for rescinding the day camp's access to the pool from 'it would change the complexion' to 'we don't have room'.

This AFTER the club had opened the pool to public subscription, and accepted fees (which were later returned) and AFTER racist slurs were directed at the black and hispanic children by the white members of the club (oh, and AFTER the white kids all leapt out of the pool and fled - yeah).

As I see it, this would invalidate the apologists' arguments that the club members' and club management's actions and decisions weren't motivated by racism. :(

[babythunder]

101. Their membership fee is

$400 that's hardly an upper class price range so this idea about it being about class is bullshit.

[RamboLiberal]

50. Here's a really good story on "colored" and "white" pools in Pittsburgh PA

I remember my parents pointing out the "colored" pool and the much bigger nicer "white" pool as we drove through the park. Sometimes I wonder how I grew up to be a liberal. I imagine many "northern" cities were similiar including Philadelphia.

Other swimmers reacted quickly when the Rev. LeRoy Patrick shepherded six members of his congregation into the blue-green waters of South Park's biggest swimming pool.

"We got in the pool. They got out of the pool, most of them," Patrick says 50 years later. "For them we were a strange sight -- black people in the Corrigan Drive Pool."

The county-operated attraction had no sign saying "Whites Only," and no laws banned anyone. But whites patronized it in 1951 as they always had, while "Negroes" or "colored people" swam in a much smaller pool less than a mile away.

That pool, which officially was called One Hundred Acre Pool, was known generally as Sully's Pool, and it often was referred to by blacks and whites as The Inkwell.

Patrick, the young pastor of Bethesda Presbyterian Church in Homewood, had heard blacks didn't swim in the Corrigan pool and was surprised no one was questioning this. "I said, 'Let's see.' I got five or six young people from my church and said, 'Let's go swimming.' I didn't tell them or their parents what I was doing."

http://www.post-gazette.com/neigh_south/20010221spool2.asp

[SteelPenguin]

56. great article

Sad how so many of those old pools are gone now. There used to be some really massive ones around here. I think whats his name that does all those Pittsburgh documentaries did one on just the pools of pittsburgh and their histories, and visited the few old extant ones.

Some though are pretty amazing that are still open to the public.

[hfojvt]

60. something kinda crossed my mind

Why was the camp seemingly all black?

Probably no discrimination going on, but it's too bad their camp couldn't be more multi-racial. I see the same thing in this town. We have a theater group, and then we also have a black theater group. Recently there was talk that the American Legion was struggling to stay open, and I mentioned, well isn't there that other building over by the recycling center. I was then informed that that is a black American Legion. (or VFW - there's also a VFW building down the street from the Legion).

Seems to me that those groups would be stronger if they were not divided along race lines.

[Lilyeye]

62. Maybe because white kids aren't enrolling in the camp?

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. Maybe the neighborhood they serve is mainly minority

We have lots of schools here in KC that are 100% minority. That isn't by design. It's because the community the school serves is 100& minority.

[marmar]

80. Yeah, I bet white parents were beating down the door to get their kids into the camp....

:eyes:

F**king please.....

[These Eyes]

86. The camp is most likely predominantly black because

it serves the neighborhood in which the children live -- predominantly black neighborhood = predominantly black camp. The reason you find organizations divided along "race" lines is because blacks historically were not welcomed in those groups/organizations, hence the black church, black colleges, black theatre, black VFW -- the list could go on.

This thread has given me a headache. I'm not really surprised by the excuses made for racist behavior, but I am irritated as hell. It sets my hair on fire that I have to prepare my child for racism that he will encounter when he steps outside of our house, at school, on the playground, places where a kid should just be a kid. I have to instill in him pride in who he is and what he looks like so that he doesn't internalize racism and become self-hating. You know the type -- blacks who can't find anything good to say about other blacks. The ones who think if it's owned by blacks, run by blacks or is black that it's inferior. The type that co-signs on racist behavior by not calling it what it is.

I don't know about anyone else, but it would infuriate me if I was accepted at the pool because of my economic status and other blacks were turned away because of theirs. What that would say to me is that I'm the "exception", I'm a little better than, a little less threatening than "regular" blacks.

Some folks will just never get it!

[Raineyb]

89. They don't want to get it

because deep down where they don't want to admit it, they are perfectly fine with that state of the status quo. They pretend to be "tolerant" but deep down they're not interested in actually doing something about it. So-called progressives of this ilk are worse than freepers. At least with freepers you know straight up what you're getting.

[These Eyes]

93. THANK YOU!!!!

Some of the stuff I see on DU really blows my mind, and like you said, it's coming from progressives. And it's so rampant. I was just reading another thread where the people of Ghana bestowed the honorary title of queen on Michelle Obama. Some of the responses there show absolutely NO respect for the culture of the people. Just mind-blowing…

[Kickin_Donkey]

99. It's unfortunate ... there's a lot of racist trash at DU ...

and several of them are on this thread. Some are trolls (even with high post counts), some are "so-called liberals" but aren't really liberal. Some are shit stirrers or terminal contrarians. Others are one-issue wonders (for example, their big issue is the Iraq war, but the don't care about much else).

The racist trash in this thread disgust me. Like the fool who wonders why the group was all-minority. Or the one who tried to blame the parents of the victimized kids. Not to mention the deniers.

It's gotten worse on DU in the last couple of years, when the membership expanded greatly and more "moderates" and hangers-on signed up.

[hfojvt]

109. so many people who disgust you

Also, I was not wondering so much as lamenting. You are sorta quick to call somebody 'racist trash'.

Yes, DU would be so much nicer if it was only 100 people who all said 'amen' to what ever the rest of the choir said. Then we perfectly progressives would never have to deal with all those a$$holes and morans who have different POVs.

[Raineyb]

113. I don't give a damn what their politics are,

In fact I find those who claim to be progressives but consistently argue for the status quo in racial matters worse than freepers. At least with freepers you know what you're dealing with up front.

And they are disgusting there's no way to sugar coat it.

[hfojvt]

96. so I got four replies telling me nothing I didn't already know

Sure that black American legion was probably started in the 1950s or something, but has there been any attempt at unity in the 1990s or 2000s? The theater group is probably not that old since I know the woman who runs it. Perhaps she is continuing something that was started much earlier. She writes her own plays and skits, so that might be another issue. It would be nice if the other theater group tried to bring her in, maybe by letting her use the theater that they own once a year.

I am also not sure how lamenting that we are still divided counts as an 'excuse for racist behaviour'.

[These Eyes]

97. If you already knew the answer, then why did you ask the question?

If you want to bridge the divide, why don't you start by taking some of your friends to see the black theatre group perform. Or speak to the other theatre group about allowing her to use their theatre.

As far as the 'excuse for racist behaviour' I'm talking about the excuses some are making that the incident at the pool was a class issue rather than a race issue. We need to stop making excuses and start calling it what it is.

[Lilyeye]

102. Exactly. If the poster knew the answers why ask the question?

I don't think this was a camp just for black children. It just so happens that where the camp is located, they're more black children who sign up. I also agree with your other points. They were spot on.

[hfojvt]

111. oy, it was a discussion question

I asked a question trying to get other people to think about something. Of course, it does not help if they first thing they think is 'dang, this guy is a racist moran'.

As for calling it what it is, first you need to know what it is and not just assume racism because there are whites and blacks involved in an altercation.

It's too easy for me to see a member of a private club complaining 'get these obnoxious kids out of here' and not really caring if the kids in question are black or white. Even if the kids aren't really 'obnoxious' - just kids being kids, that's probably not the norm for that private pool which does not ordinarily have a bunch of unsupervised kids at it.

Silly of the club to not just tell its members to avoid the pool for a couple hours if they don't like it, but I don't know how long the camp's swimming sessions were. They could be all day since when we were kids we often spent all day at the pool or lake. Also sometimes a paying member expects to get what they paid for 24/7 - a nice quiet pool instead of one seemingly over-run by kids.

It's possible too, of course, that I look too hard for a positive spin because I don't wanna believe the world is as nasty as it really is.

[RamboLiberal]

103. This camp was multi-racial - when they did the reports

there was a couple of white kids I saw and many of the kids were of mixed-race as you could see when they interviewed the parents. I would guess the camp reflects the makeup of their neighborhood.

[zonkers]

76. link to video of that kid....

http://www.cnn.com/video/

[BlooInBloo]

95. Just heard on CNN that there's likely a lawsuit being drawn up right now...

And that the camp is screwed.

Good. Fucking bigots.

[Number23]

100. I hope they take every last damned dime

And in 20 years when the company is back on its feet, I hope they sue them again!

((Well, not really. I'm feeling a bit vengeful today.))