The American Middle Class Is Dead And They Don't Even Know It Yet.

[Vinnie From Indy]

Unlike any economic upheaval in our nation's history, this crisis is the final curtain call of the American standard of living. We will never return to living wages and a large middle class.

The reason is quite simple actually. Since the beginning, corporate interests have almost always had their way in our political system. What makes this time so unique is that the American worker is no longer needed and definitely no longer desired by global corporations. Previously in our history, there was no global substitute for our skilled and educated labor force nor was there a bigger market of consumers for the products being produced. That has all changed. The manufacturing and other jobs we have lost are not coming back. This next century could easily be described as the Age of the Global Corporation. The era will be hallmarked by a never-ending race to the bottom in terms of wages paid to labor. Global concerns will simply hop-scotch around the globe descending on exploitable labor pools like locusts moving from field to field.

NAFTA, free trade and corporate person-hood are the pale riders of the apocalypse that are ravaging Americans today. It seems the only benefits left for our corporate overlords in sustaining their death grip on our government is to use our military as their private, global security force. We have become merely the big stick that a very small group of wealthy elite use to protect and expand their empires.

Everyday the truth of the fable about how to boil a frog becomes more clear in regard to the American publics' understanding of their predicament.

[FiveGoodMen]

1. They've been brain dead for a long time or else we'd have very different reps in DC

[babylonsister]

2. Wow, you're just a ray of sunshine. nt

[BobRossi]

5. Yeah, truth sucks.

[babylonsister]

12. You are, too. nt

[hfojvt]

17. "and this little girl, who is so special to us

that we call her 'God's little gift of sunshine.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXXyms5g5ok

[hfojvt]

13. it's a prediction though, not TRUTH

the DU loves the doom and gloom though. Sing that Crow Anthem. Sing it loud, sing it proud!!

[Bigmack]

28. I don't think anybody is talking "TRUTH"....

just opinion.

I want this mess cured... I want the country rich again. So I'm an optimist. But I'm also a realist. I'm looking all around for an explanation of how the middle class and the consumer society will be able to come back from this thing. No Home Equity Loans, tight credit, lower wages, real estate prices dropping, foreclosures, medical care skyrocketing, rising expectations in China and India, global climate change, and peak oil/energy crunch..... that's a lot of handicaps.

Tell me a reasonable scenario of how that stuff gets turned around. I mean that.... PLEASE tell me how this can turn around. I've got two kids in their thirties, and between them and their spouses, they have 1 low-level job. I NEED for the economy to do better, but I can't see how it can turn around.

[hfojvt]

33. I wish there was some way we could turn against the consumer society

On a personal level, we seem to need it though. If people don't buy useless expensive junk, then I am out of a job in many cases. Look at some of the jobs I have had - making satellite dishes, making jello snacks. Stupid expensive stuff that I would not buy, but needed others to, in order to keep food on my table.

However, when I went on my vacation trip I had a hard time seeing the weak economy. There sure were enough people out on I-35.

To some degree it seems like we should have lots of wiggle room too. Our per capita GDP is something like $45,000. That certainly seems like plenty to me, since I only get about $22,000 myself. Even if per capita GDP fell to $35,000 that still ought to be plenty of money, if we distributed it evenly. But I doubt if per capita GDP is gonna fall at all, much less fall by 20% in the next five years.

Peak oil and global climate change are much larger problems than the economy, but I have a hard time taking the former seriously. Back in 1979 I was the only one in my class who believed there was an energy crisis and time seems to have proven me wrong.

[RaleighNCDUer]

62. It is less a problem with a consumer society than with a consumer credit society.

If people were to return to making purchases only when they have the money we wouldn't be seeing 9-25% of their spending siphoned off to the banks. That would increase their buying power, and make the economy stronger. Save credit for homes, cars, vacations. There is no reason to get that big-screen TV today, as opposed to six months from now, and the economy doesn't care WHEN you buy it, only THAT you buy it.

At the same time, that would help re-distribute the wealth back into the middle class. The banks, despite mouthing tributes to Reagan and the trickle-down economy, are believers in trickle-up, and the interest we all pay on credit gravitates toward the top - hence, multi-million dollar salaries and benefits packages going to people who essentially do nothing - if the CEO of ANY corporation took a six month leave, never went into his office, never signed a memo, the corporations (or the bank, or the industry) would continue to hum along. In fact, the only person in any industry who can do that is the top person, who is outrageously compensated for that prividedge.

The middle class is disappearing. CEOs are collecting impossibly high, record high, compensation.

They are stealing from us. It's as simple as that.

[woofless]

53. General Strike

Shut the fuckers down. Every working person on the street for a day. Repeat as needed.

Woof

[me b zola]

57. The problem is what we have become as a people

Seems like we used to be fighters. Now a quarter of us fight violently against their own self interest (the republican base). About 50% of us have been lulled into complacency. That leaves 25% of us who actively participate, but are marginalized.

A general strike would work--in other countries with populations that still fight for their rights. Here, so few would participate they would be fired and there would be lines of people eager to take their jobs.

[truedelphi]

56. And the part you are leaving out -

Under the Bush/Obama economic package, we have helped out Wall Street to the tune of some twelve trillion bucks and counting.

Those monies must be repaid, and will end up being another tax on the middle incomed - either through the indirect tax of inflation, or the more direct tax of real taxes.

Of the first 350 billion dollars (TARP ONE) a whopping 457 mortgage holders were helped - yet that TARP was initiated as a result of the hue and cry (from Wall St) that the banks/financial firms needed money in order to have the liquidity to lend the money out.

Then we give them the money - and they still don't lend the money out. Why? The consumer class (ie middle class) doesn't count.

Besides, banks/investment firms make much more money speculating on the goods and commodities needed - oil, food and utilities, then on making loans to us middle income slobs. Cities strapped for cash will offer for sale those assets formerly run by government. The Parking Meter concession was just handed over to a private firm in Chicago, and the parking meter costs are now four times what they were when the City owned those interests.

We the Middle Incomed, will be hung by the neck using rope bought with monies that We the Middle Incomed provide them!

[LiberalEsto]

3. Serfs up! nt

[4_TN_TITANS]

36. DUzy.... i wasn't expecting that! n/t

[Ardent15]

4. Sad but true

I fear that it is too late too stop the corporate-political oligarchy that controls the world now.

[Big Blue Marble]

6. Corporations race to the labor bottom

was dependent on American consumers spending their wealth and then some on the imported goods.

In your scenario, you did not take into account that if there is no American middle class to overspend on their stuff
the corporations go down too.

Corporations did not think this through when they began to strategize in the fifties to bring down the labor moment.
Or when they began to ship the jobs overseas.

[Vinnie From Indy]

8. I am quite sure that the emerging markets in China and India will do nicely for at least 100yrs

Our tiny population is no longer needed to sustain corporations.

[katsy]

11. +1

You nailed it.

And we paid, through tax breaks and legislation, to help them ramp up their businesses.

[Big Blue Marble]

15. The key word

in your response is emerging. These populations do not have the wealth or the inclination to spend the way
we did i. e beyond our means leaving us with a negative savings rate.

In Asia they are much more cautious. Look at the high savings rates in Japan.
Nope the corps. have screwed themselves right along with us.

[Deja Q]

22. They'll get credit cards soon enough...

A way will be found.

It's called "marketing".

[DJ13]

21. No, the same logic would apply in China

The corporations dont want a middle class no matter which country they are based in.

Should China begin developing a true middle class the corporations will actively seek to either destroy it, or they will move their traveling circus of misery on to a new country to take advantage of a depressed labor pool for additional profits.

[Big Blue Marble]

31. Many of American Corporations will fail in the coming years.

Oh, wait they already are.

In the interest of arguing from your position, you are comparing economies in Asia,
which are much different, to ours and extrapolating the future.

Vinnie, the future is always unpredictable. I do support your premise that the middle class
is in for more financial shocks. I disagree that they are totally unaware of what lies ahead.

Yet there are many variables that you leave unaccounted, in your simple projection for
instance, the impact of global warming on these emerging economies.

And while China and India have amassed considerable wealth at our expense
and on our dime, they are not sharing it with their massive populations in
the way that wealth at one time was distributed in this country. It is doubtful
that especially China ever will.

[onethatcares]

9. oh no, I think the development of

countries like China/India/and the macronesias will all have their chance at owning a slice of the dream, until of course the corporations decide they need to move to the inner sections of South America, Sub Saharan Africa, and who knows where else.

I think the best thing to do is pull back to family size, even if it's a large or small family. Pool resourses, grow food, don't buy the plastic shit, and repair what you have before buying new.

The globals already have all the money they could possibly ever want, now it's time for them to excersize thier power. It ain't gonna be purty.

[county worker]

7. I don't agree. I was reading something on msn.com about the jobs that are hard to fill.

One of them was an accountant, another was engineer, there were 10 in all. 5 that require a college education and 5 that do not.

If you believe that the system keeps you down it will. Your post is one from a person who will never understand what they have to do to become middle class.

I suggest you get a different paradigm and see if you can't change the nothing future you have planned for yourself.


Every time I read posts like the OP I think of a scene in the movie "Grapes of Wrath." One guy is telling the others how bad it is in California where they are headed. He's been there and is heading back home. He says he'd rather die all at once then to do it a little bit every day. Tom Jode asks the ex-preacher if he thinks the guy is telling the truth. The ex-preacher says, "yes he's telling the truth, the truth for him."

[BobRossi]

10. Interesting,...

I have just become an unemployed engineer. I don't have a degree, this is my first layoff in over 30 years.
The engineering jobs that are available all require degrees and pay less than half of what I was making.

[county worker]

16. I have been up and down a few times. I am an accountant.

Right now I am making more money than I have ever made. I am lucky to have this job. But I got it by applying for jobs I saw in the paper.

Once I was unemployed and in a clinical depression. I got a job looking for unexploded ordinance in San Diego. It paid $8/hr on the days we worked. I now make 90k yr. I learned one very important idea. That's this. When you are in a shit place you have to try things to get back to a better place. There is no guarantee that what you try will work but you have to keep trying. There is a pretty good guarantee that if you don't try something, things won't get better.

I believe in the power of attraction. What you are constantly thinking about you attract to yourself. It works for me. I know that most here at DU think that's a bunch of shit, but most here agree with the OP too.

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. Bullshit.

I am certain there are thousands of engineers and accountants who would LOVE to fill those 'hard to fill jobs'. I know a few myself. And that is here in NC where the unemployment is not totally outrageous.

msn.com is a corporate voice. You can't take ANYTHING it says at face value.

[county worker]

20. You don't have to live for thousands of people, just yourself.

I'm an accountant and I have a steady job. I have been an accountant since 1980 so I have a lot of experience. I have been down in out during that time but I always come back. I don't give a shit what the unemployment number is. When it comes to getting to a better place I get a vision of what it would be like and go after it.

You do what you want and I'll do what I want.

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. Mystical nonsense - YOU do not create the world.

You take your own luck and try to take credit for it.

If I believed in mystical nonsense myself, I'd say you have a karmic comeuppance coming.

[county worker]

29. You create your world.

If you don't believe it that is perfectly OK. You live your life and I'll live mine. I doubt very much that this economic down turn will harm me in any way. I did lose all the equity in the house I had for sale for over two years but some people from England are going to buy it for a summer home. The closing is next Tuesday. In this real estate market I sold my house and did not lose a cent. I have a steady job making more money than most of us. My wife is making a good salary too. We are saving money each week.

I believe I've attracted all that to me. I have been doing that for over 20 years. I'm not about to stop now and listen to an OP like this one.

It is a minority of people who will not recover from this crisis and you get to chose if you are in that minority or not by the choices you make everyday and the kind of vision you have for your future. If you believe the OP you will probably end up just like it says.

[misanthrope]

65. "So the poor have no one to blame but themselves?" That sounds...

...an awful lot like Reaganism to me.

[girl gone mad]

38. You say you don't give a shit about the unemployment number..

but you want us to take your economic jibberish seriously?

Good luck.

[DireStrike]

43. We are not talking about what a single person can do to get ahead

We're talking about the aggregate welfare of the entire population.

It is wrong to think that everyone will succeed by working hard. Many people will not. I'm sure there are more people who have worked as hard as you have and gotten nothing, than there are people like yourself.

[flyarm]

61. I agree ..bullshit!!

My daughter in law works in LA as an accountant/CPA recruiter..for major corps..no one is hiring in LA..no one..she hasn't gotten an account in 8 months!! and she was the top of her company..they have now laid off all but two of the recruiters! My DIL was making money hand over fist for the past 6 years..now ..zilch.
And the only reason she is not laid off ..she just went on maternity leave/ disability...but she will prob get the axe when she comes off leave. One gal in her office made over $300,000. last year..now just laid off..no jobs.

[Vinnie From Indy]

18. "see if you can't change the nothing future you have planned for yourself."

Well, that is kind of the point about being a DU'er and posting here. The very fact that I am here means I AM trying to change the future by interacting with this incredible community.

Also, if I remember Grapes of Wrath correctly, it didn't turn out all that well Tom Joad. Maybe he should have listened to the guy that told him not to bother with CA.

[county worker]

26. The story of the Grapes of Wrath did not end with Tom Joad.

If you ever get a chance read the book about the Weedpatch School.

"Children of the Dust Bowl: The True Story of the School at Weedpatch Camp"

I use to live in the area where the Okies migrated to. The camp in the story and movie was called Wheatpatch but really it is Weedpatch. The camp is still there in Arvin, CA just south of Bakersfield.

The children of the Okies were not welcome in the Bakersfield public schools because if their poverty and strange ways. The superintendent of schools opened a school down the road from Weedpatch camp for the migrant children. He got a surplus C-46 commando airplane and the kids were taught air craft maintenance. They built the first public swimming pool in Kern County.

To make a long story short the school taught the migrant kids skills so they did not have to follow in the footsteps of their parents. The school was so successful that parents in Bakersfield wanted to send their kids to it. The school is still there as is Weedpatch camp. Part of the movie was filmed there.

Check out this URL http://www.weedpatchcamp.com/Life%20in%20Camp/school1.htm Do a google on weedpatch school and read about people who were in a much worse place than you are in.

Every year in October there are Dust Bowl days at Weedpatch camp. Children who lived there in the 1930's come out and tell their story.

It is an inspiration and maybe it will give you some hope too.

One thing it says in the book is that the migrants never complained to each other how hard it was because they all had it hard and it did no good to whine about it.


This is the book I was talking about:

http://www.commonsensemedia.org/book-reviews/Children-Dust-Bowl-True.html

Children of the Dust Bowl: The True Story of the School at Weedpatch Camp

[Vinnie From Indy]

35. Very interesting link!

You make some great points!

One point that I think applies to the comparison of our current woes with the spirit of Grapes of Wrath is that Steinbeck's message at the end of the book was hope. Hope for a better tomorrow and a better future. I share that sentiment. I think that discussions between folks on DU and elsewhere are the key to shaping our future for a better tomorrow. The only way that these discussions bear fruit is if the cold, hard reality of our situation is not obscured, minimized or sugar coated.

I would also add that "whining" is the first step to activism. Quite simply, whining about one's current status to others in the same boat is the SOLE reason workers unite to form unions and groups that demand their humanity be respected. I would offer we need much, much more "whining" if we have any chance of averting future lives that Thomas Hobbes described so well centuries ago as "nasty, brutish and short".

[county worker]

37. You are right "whining" is the first step to activism

But how many here will take the second step?

The world sucks and if you want a better life you can't wait until somebody makes it better for you.

I was unemployed for most of two years in the early 90's. I lost my house because I could not make the payments. My wife and I moved into a single bedroom apartment in a very lousy part of town. I was clinically depressed and suicidal. I was put into a safe house so I could be watched. I was days from living on the street. I remember days and days sitting at the EDD hoping for some kind of work.

I got a laborer's job. My wife was offered a job in a different city. I went with her. I sent resumes to that city. I got two job interviews and a job the week we moved. It was a shitty job but better than I had. I lot of ups and downs later we are doing really well. A time before that I was homeless in San Diego because of alcoholism. I learned in AA to turn problems over to a higher power and I began to believe in positive thinking. I believe in the power of attraction and it has worked for me for over 25 years. Not every day is a rose some are stones but for the most part they are roses.

I will not let this economy dictate my life. I will never believe that there isn't a brighter day for me.

I really get depressed with all those posts were it seems people here are resigned to defeat. I believe you make your world.

Maybe you would be interested in reading the book "The Secret" I know most here say it's a bunch of shit but what can you lose by reading it

[Berry Cool]

39. I"The Secret" IS a bunch of shit. The only person it ever made prosperous was its author.

Do you believe you attract everything good that's happened to you on your own? What if you were diagnosed with cancer tomorrow? Would that be your fault, because somehow you attracted it with a "negative thought"? That's the bullshit "The Secret" teaches. It's poison.

You are not really following some bullshit "law of attraction." What you're doing is choosing to remain a positive thinker, not be needlessly dragged down by thinking of the worst outcomes possible, and trying to keep yourself in a position to take advantage of any opportunity that comes your way, rather than giving yourself permission to be a Gloomy Gus. That's fine and it's good. And it CAN make a difference between surviving a bad time and not surviving it, or doing poorly in it. BUT...BUT...it does help to have luck on your side. And to actually have the attitude that if something bad does happen, it's not because you attracted it, but because shit happens and you have the power to take steps to at least try to make it go away.

The key to a happy life is knowing what's in your control and what's not--and controlling what you can while letting go of what you can't. It has nothing to do with "laws of attraction."

[Joe Chi Minh]

55. There is absolutely no substitute for hope. With it, we potentially possess the sun,

the moon and the stars. It makes us open to the help that Higher Power can give, and with growing self-respect, is accompanied by faith and love for others. So, it doesn't encourage us to chase after ever greater material wealth, the so-called American Dream, just a secure and reasonably comfortable life.

Happiness, peace in our hearts, is not obtained from material possessions. There is many a poor, rich kid, who'd give his eye-teeth for the love that spiritual priorities on the part of his/her parents would have afforded them. Sure, it's a generalisation but apt, as such; never mind that poor people and poor parents can be bad, and rich people and rich parents, good.

[DireStrike]

42. Bootstraps! Go buy a pair and tug on 'em!

[misanthrope]

66. You might want to read this...

..before you cast aspersions about people's misfortune.

Used to think the social safety net was for those who didn't want to work

[Deja Q]

19. You sound pretty alive to me...

[taught_me_patience]

23. You failed to mention the #1 factor

TECHNOLOGY. Yep... humans can be replaced by machines and computers. The "race to the bottom" theory is debunked. Manufacturing jobs are being lost around the globe. America is still, by far, the #1 manufacturer in the world due to our superior technology.

[Ron Green]

24. There's "social" middle class and "economic" middle class

and I think the social middle class can and will thrive in the future, even if the economic middle class is finished. What it will mean is building and maintaining communities based on real wealth instead of the false wealth of "money in the bank," and leaving behind the lifestyle of obsolescent consumer goods.

[GreenTea]

27. Support Unions! - Employees Free Choice Act!

http://www.aflcio.org/joinaunion/voiceatwork/efca/whatis.cfm

[county worker]

30. Right on! from a proud member if the SEIU

[intheflow]

32. I agree with much of this, but dont' agree that we'll never return to living wages.

Simply because the current global economy is unsustainable with current technologies. One of the things that makes overseas production and world-wide distribution so profitable right now (aside from using cheap labor) is relatively cheap fuels with which to ship products. As oil depletes, and particularly if no alternative energy is developed which can power planes, economies will have to become smaller and more localized for any substantial corporate profits to be realized. Of course, customer service jobs and whatnot can still be freely distributed throughout the world even in the event of a full transportation melt-down.

[Odin2005]

34. Very true in the short term (next 10 to 15 years), but IMO it won't be true in the long term.

By the time this crisis is over, around 2025 if history is any guide, the Law of Unintended Consequences will have exacted her terrible price on the corporate elite. Their financial edifice looks imposing, but it is a house of cards doomed to collapse under it's own weight. No, the old industries are not coming back, instead what is about to occur is a new Industrial Revolution based on Nanotechnology, Green technology, and "Open Source" information that will wipe away the old order.

Nano-manufacturing will be the end of mass production and the traditional factory, in their place will be decentralized and local production of goods, which will completely disrupt an economic order of multinational corporations.

[tbyg52]

40. >>We will never return to living wages and a large middle class.

Unless we break the corporations. Maybe not even then, but at least we'd have a chance.

IT'S THE CORPORATIONS, STUPID!

[spin]

41. K&R (n/t)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. It's a catch-22 situation. Jobs with lower wages or no jobs.

And, there's no realistic way out.

As you say, the corporations will hopscotch around the planet looking for lower labor costs. If they don't, they'll perish.

On top of that, the politicians and financiers are trying to buy our way out of the crisis only for the short term by borrowing and/or printing money which just plunges the economy deeper into debt that has to be paid later which, in turn, stifles the economy because taxes will have to be raised which, will further curtail spending by the taxpayers.

The "recovery" that isn't.

[KillCapitalism]

47. You're right about that.

Why do you think big corporations here and in China are pumping tons of $ into Africa trying to lower disease rates, and stabilising the continent. It's not because they care for those poor black people. Africa will be the next large pool of slave labor.

[troubledamerican]

45. Brace for impact -- the "Obama Is Responsible" storyline that even Progressives will buy

IMF, World Bank, Stiglitz, and many other sources warn: The worst of this economic crisis is YET TO COME.

Another sudden shock -- rogue oil traders bringing the market to its knees, a bond crisis, the long-term leaching effects of failing banks, the collapse of the FDIC due to bank rescue fatigue, more Goldman-Sachs mischief, more AIG mischief, the collapse of multiple national economies around the globe -- that creates another chain-reaction wave of U.S. crisis leading to hyperinflation?

Obama will get blamed, at face value. Many progressives will not even think twice.

Iceland had riots. Riots were averted in the U.S. What will happen if the "Obama Is Responsible" storyline catches fire in the U.S.? DU is already fertile ground.

[lpbk2713]

46. The famous BushCo legacy

K&R

[HughMoran]

48. I want to rebuke your arguments, but I can't

I've seen this happen in company after company and since there are so few ethical companies - sadly, I think our fate is sealed.

[mullard12ax7]

49. But it'll all just be the same if I repeat my tired old mantras

"the stock market always goes up", "there's only so much real estate", "outsourcing creates jobs", "you didn't get your pony".

[flyarm]

50. And Pay to Play does not include anyone here!! See Moyers Journal here..

Ceci Connolly Was the “Play” in the WaPo’s Pay2Play Dinner

By: emptywheel Saturday July 11, 2009 6:21 am http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/ceci-connolly-was-the-play-in-the-pay2play-dinner/#more-4476

edit to add:watch the utube of Bill Moyers Journal..must see !! and do read the comments at emptywheels blog

Close to the end of OmbudAndy's long assessment of his paper's Pay2Play scandal, he includes this tidbit:

Brauchli conferred with Pelton about the salon dinners. At one point they showed up at the newsroom desk of reporter Ceci Connolly, who covers health care, which was to be the discussion topic of the July 21 dinner. Subsequently, she said, "Charles asked me for some contact phone numbers and e-mails, which I provided."



On June 17, another Word document was provided by Pelton to The Post's advertising staff soliciting a $25,000 sponsorship -- "Maximum of two sponsors" -- for the July dinner. Under "Hosts and Discussion Leaders," it listed Weymouth, Brauchli and "Other Washington Post health care editorial and reporting staff." It said participants could "Interact with core players in an off-the-record format."

A week later, the flier was distributed to the ad sales staff.

At the same time, e-mails were being sent over Weymouth's name to lawmakers and others inviting them to the July 21 dinner. They said she, Brauchli and "health care reporter Ceci Connolly" were hosting the evening. An accompanying invitation said it would be off the record and noted that it would be underwritten by a single sponsor, Kaiser Permanente.

Somehow I just knew Ceci Connolly would be involved in this Pay2Play.

That's because she has spent the last month "reporting" stories that scold progressives for insisting on real reform. There was the article, for example, where she said,


more change you wanna believe in?

[dysfunctional press]

51. never say never...

it probably isn't going to happen in any of our lifetimes- but the pendulum WILL swing back.

[flyarm]

52. Yeah sure, after they have destroyed the middle class and stolen all our money and jobs,

and retirements and our investments,our health and fed us GM food poisoning us and leave children with no medical care..let alone millions of adults.. and the big boys have sat drinking martini's on their yachts laughing at us all..sure it will return.......after a revolution!!

I will say "never"..never in my lifetime will it return..Never....and probably never in my kids lifetime!!The NWO has been planned for a very long time..get used to it..they will "NEVER" give up this power.
Only fools keep going along!!The NWO boys have an arsenal of people willing to sell this country out for pennies to the dollar..we see them daily here........

[dysfunctional press]

59. "...after a revolution!!"

pretty much.

and that's why it won't be happening in any of our lifetimes...we're mostly viewers, not doers.

BUT-
at least it's going to be an interesting show, these next few decades...:popcorn:

[shadowknows69]

54. And the body is propped up by a wall of credit cards

[cap]

58. In their own way, everyone's opinion on this thread is right

the original poster is correct in his assessment of the CURRENT situation. In order to change, we need an accurate assessment of the challenges of the current situation.
But, in order to get out of it, we need both collective action and a call to individual resilience, tenacity, and flexibility. We don't have to sit where we are. We can change but we must create a framework by changing the laws to make it possible for the individual characteristics mentioned above to shine. We can only create that framework collectively and we must make Obama do it. We can't rest on our laurels and say that well, we elected these people and it's their job to do it. No. It is our job on the grassroots to organize to make our elected officials make our system work for the individual.

The poster who pulled himself out of alcoholism did so because there was a bunch of people in AA who helped him-- who picked him up when he was down, reinforced his strengths, helped him compensate for his weaknesses, and who celebrated his victories. It is our individual strength of character reinforced by a caring community that will create this new world. We must do it ourselves; or, it will be done by others who do not have our best interest at heart.

[flyarm]

60. "The jobs situation is even worse than the headlines." Nouriel Roubini

http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/08/jobs-report-mortgages-unemployment-recession-opinions-columnists-nouriel-roubini.html

Brown Manure, Not Green Shoots
Nouriel Roubini, 07.09.09, 12:00 AM EDT

The jobs situation is even worse than the headlines.
snip:

The employment report shows that conditions in the labor market continue to be extremely weak, with job losses in June of over 460,000. With the current rate of job losses, it is very clear that the unemployment rate could reach 10% by later this summer--around August or September--and will be closer to 10.5%, if not 11%, by year-end. I expect the unemployment rate is going to peak at around 11% at some point in 2010, well above historical standards for even severe recessions.
It's clear that even if the recession were to be over anytime soon--and it's not going to be over before the end of the year--job losses are going to continue for at least another year and a half. Historically, during the last two recessions, job losses continued for at least a year and a half after the recession was over. During the 2001 recession, the recession was over in November 2001, and job losses continued through August 2003 for a cumulative loss of jobs of over 5 million; this time we are already seeing more than 6 million job losses and the recession is not over.


The details of the unemployment report are even worse than the headline. Not only are there large job losses right now, but as a way of sharing the pain, firms are inducing workers to reduce hours and hourly wages. Therefore, when we're looking at the effect of the labor market on labor income, we should consider that the total value of labor income is the product of jobs, hours and average hourly wages--and that all three elements are falling right now. So the effect on labor income is much more significant than job losses alone.

The details also suggest that other aspects of the labor markets are worsening. If you include discouraged workers and partially employed workers, the unemployment rate is already above 16%. If you consider also that temporary jobs are falling now quite sharply, labor market conditions are becoming worse and the average duration of unemployment now is at an all-time high. So people not only are losing jobs, but they're finding it harder to find new jobs. So every element of the labor market is worsening.

[Quantess]

63. Thanks for the article.

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64. you are welcome, i wish it was better news! eom