An example of what's wrong with American food.

[hedgehog]

I couldn't believe it when I read that the typical broiler chicken is brought to market at about 6 weeks and weighs 4 to 5 pounds.

http://www.poultryegg.org/faq/docs/industryFAQ.pdf

I have a backyard flock of heritage breed chickens - Rhode Island Reds, Leghorns, Buff Orpingtons, Hamburgs etc. Right now I have 30 birds in a chick cage that were hatched out about June1. These birds are only about 1/4 or 1/3 of their mature size and some still have down on their heads. They will be old enough to go out with the main flock in another month or two, but they won't stop growing for quite a while after that.

We slaughtered some of our chickens years ago, but found that we missed having the chickens following us around the yard. That said, comparing store bought chicken to the meat from our backyard hens was like comparing chocolately flavor cereal to Lindt Chocolate!

[PretzelWarrior]

1. so true. natural foods are no comparison.

to the factory produced beef and poultry, etc.

[glowing]

2. So true. That's why when you travel in Europe, the food is sooo much better.

[hedgehog]

9. SOmeone mentioned "Swiss" cheese to my husband's co-worker

from Geneva, and you never saw so much hemming and hawing by someone trying not to be rude and say what he really thought about American cheese!

[glowing]

17. when I was travelling in Spain and Italy, the easiest thing to grab and go

was just a simple pan y queso... So I used spanish to get by in Italy, sue me. Anyway, bread awesome, cheese great.. and I didn't need all the fillers that you would need on a subway sandwhich just to make it edible.

The only thing that killed me was the lack of ice. God I love ice in my drink cups. They all say the same thing about us Americans, why do you all need so much ice? I just laughed and said its the only way....

I so wish I could live in Europe for a nice 10yr stint. Its so amazingly fun and unique. Besides, I would love access to healthcare like they have... America is just soooo behind the times; people living for a crazed picture of what they assumed it used to be like. If you look at America's history, its not romantic. Its always been a class war; starting with the native inhabitants and continuing on now to the middleclass.

[Retrograde]

52. You're not the only one!

I keep mixing up Spanish and Italian as well. And we also do the bread and cheese or bread/cheese/charcuterie when traveling. Even in the states we like to make up a small cooler of sandwiches and fruits and find a park for a picnic, rather than patronize a fast-food place that's just like any other one.

Average summer temps in the US tend to be higher than the averages in Europe, I think. Having just got back from a week in Arizona I certainly appreciate the ice!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. Even in Japan, which has plenty of processed food, there's an emphasis

on eating seasonal produce and local specialties. You always get soup (usually miso-based) and pickled veggies with a standard meal, but the ingredients of the soup and the types of veggies change with the seasons.

When former foreign residents return to Japan, one thing they always look forward to is the food.

[paulsby]

19. not true

the factory farmed meats generally suck. they are also generally MUCH cheaper.

europeans, in general, spend SIGNIFICANTLY more of their disposable income on food than in the US.

if you want cheap, factory farmed meat, you can buy it here.

you can also pay extra to get free range, wild game, etc.

i can buy pork belly (one of my favorite meats to cook. i usually braise it chinese style) for $1.99 a lb.

that's a great deal.

if i want to buy more expensive cuts and./or from animals that are not factory farmed, i have the CHOICE.

i shop a local ethnic store that has phenomenal produce. limes 10 for a $1.00. bananas .29 a lb.

sorry, but as somebody who traveled europe, i know that you can find AT LEAST as much high quality food here vs. there, and generally it's cheaper here.

buying local helps. i can drive around and within 20 miles of my house, i have 2 (that i know of) meat markets selling bulk meats (from sides of beef all the way down to by the pound) , free range products, wild game products, etc.

the US has LOTS of crap available. it also has the same superior stuff you can find in europe.

[conscious evolution]

22. You are so right

Unfortunately its not found always easy to find in many big cities.Its there but most people are will not take the time to searh it out.Its way to easy to shop at one of the mega markets.

When I lived across the pond I found that some things cost more while other foods were way way cheaper over there.What I did notice was that even cheap and cheesy looking hole in the wall places over there could have some really delicious food for very little.It was also nice to not see many chain restuarants on every other corner.

[paulsby]

23. it's interesting that you mention chain restaurants

did u know that mcdonalds is VERY popular in france. on a per capita basis, they are amongst the top 3 of all countries in the world in buying stuff at mcdonalds. around here (seattle area) there are some phenomenal asian markets (that don't just have asian type foods) with really good produce. also, i frequent the ukrainian markets. i do find some aspects of seattle area very dissapointing. hard to find good bagels, or good delis in general. i now make my own pickles (Cucumber, tomato, peppers), gravlax, etc. because i simply can't find it.

[glowing]

26. Did you know in Europe there is no GMO foods. Did you know that McDonald's

caters to the local pallat.. and you can get a nice fluffy crousant inside with a cup of espresso? We in America are known as the eaters.. Cheap and crappy.. we just eat it.. consume it.. die by it.

[paulsby]

29. even in america, some mcdonald's

cater to the local palette. for example, in hawaii, they have portugese sausage eggs and rice, pog, and saimin. i just discount the snobby attitude that we are the "eaters" and they are so much more sophisticated. it's crap. i've traveled europe, and all over the US. we have great diversity of food choices, etc. i *like* mcdonald's. i just find it ironic that people who think france is oh so sophisticated rarely even know that french are great consumers of mcdonalds.

[glowing]

31. Ok. I guess I'm not a strict I love America type of person. there are good

people and great cultures all across the world. But we are Known as the eaters by the rest of the world.. those really rich guys who get together and decide all kinds of shit.

I guess I just don't understand your point. Is it to make me love this country more than France or Italy or Spain or whatever? I would love to live in Europe for a while.. But eventually, I'd probably come back to the US, as my parents would be getting older.. this is if I had the choice of where I could possibly live in the world.

GMO foods are banned in Europe. Its crap.

[paulsby]

32. my mind is still opened vis a vis GMO

i really have not seen any compelling reasons, based on what i have read, to be against them. still parsing the data

[glowing]

33. Check out Monsanto. As a person who had to study them for my environmental science

degree, they are truly evil.. throw ADM on in.. While your at it google the India Cotton Suicides. See what the reps do to American farmers.

[paulsby]

34. whether or not they are good

"corporate citizens" isn't relevant to the science. iow, how do GMO foods differ, what are the cost/benefits, etc? i am a firm believer in choice and labeling. i often think science gets thrown out, out of irrational fear. i see this a lot in the organics debate. i grow a fair amount of my own food, fwiw

[glowing]

35. The costs are higher when you mess with genetics and producing seedless

crops... I'm not feared of them. I don't run around like a chicken. However, the modifications are not needed.

[paulsby]

36. and if that's the case

then the choice should be up to the consumer imo. which isn't possible if the GMO foods are banned. like i said, i have not come to a conclusion vis a vis GMO foods.

[glowing]

38. You have to wonder why they lobby so hard to keep labeling off of foods?

In Canada, I've heard people try to avoid these foods.. and in Europe, no need to worry for looking at labels.

[paulsby]

39. europe took away choice

that sucks. i support labeling. but until i see rational scientific evidence as to why GMO foods are so evil, i'll let the consumer make the choice. we can agree on labeling though

[conscious evolution]

41. One of the problems with GMO

is that you cannot save and seedbank the seeds.This means that the farmers are forced to buy new seeds from monsanto every year.Many farmers have lost their farms due to going into debt to buy seeds.
They also modify the seeds so that you must use their fertilizers or the plants will not produce fruits.
They also breed their seeds for appearance and handleing ease instead of taste and nutrition.This results in food that looks good but has very little flavor.

There are many more reasons why but these are the big three,imo.

[GoCubsGo]

47. That reminds me of my trip to Germany a dozen years ago...

The town where I spent much of my time had just opened a McDonald's. Everyone was flocking to it. Me? I avoided it like the plague. I happened by it one day, and they could not entice me to go in there for anything. I don't even eat at McDonald's here. I sure as hell wasn't going to fly halfway across the world and eat there, especially with all of the great cheeses, baked goods and other yummy things available there. I was in the northern part of the country, where we had smoked herring, pickled herring, herring in cream sauce, herring in wine sauce... Beats ANYTHING Micky D's can serve up.

[Fumesucker]

27. It depends a lot on just where you are in the USA..

I can get fairly decent meat at a hispanic carneceria up the road but good produce I haven't found within reasonable driving range. My truck gets execrable mileage, I can't afford to replace it and I can't afford to drive it very far, it really limits my shopping options.

I live in the Atlanta exurbs, a more bland and homogenized place would be hard to find.

And moving isn't really an option for me within the foreseeable future either, certainly not if I want to maintain contact with my grandkids which is basically all I'm living for at the moment.

[paulsby]

30. and the same is true in other countries

depends on where you live there as well.

[Fumesucker]

37. There is public transportation in most of Europe..

I've been there too.. In fact I have more family in Europe than the US..

The closest public transport to me is about fifteen miles away.

Edited for clarity.

[csziggy]

40. Do a search for Community Supported Agriculture and see if you can find a farmer near you

http://greenpeople.org/searchCSAandBuyingClubs.cfm is one place to start looking. Another: http://www.georgiaorganics.org/

In many places, you many not have to go to the farm but can meet with them at a regular location such as a health food store or farmer's market. We can pick our veggies up at the farm, or at any of several locations around town, whichever is convenient.

CSA farmers are getting more common because people are realizing the value of buying local produce in season. Usually a share is $10-20 per week, though sometimes they want to be paid by the season. The CSA farmer I am getting veggies for also sells half shares for smaller households, but we're trading horse manure for our share since we are building a large mound of poo that we need to get rid of and she needs the fertilizer.

[Dulcinea]

43. Where in Atlanta are you?

Anywhere near the Dekalb Farmer's Market? Try there. Great produce at a reasonable price. I shop there every week!

[conscious evolution]

53. Dekalb Farmers Market

On Ponce east of downtown Decatur.
Very good food available there.

[Nay]

20. My brother and I find that when we go to Brazil (he lives there), we lose

weight easily in Brazil eating normal Brazilian food. One has to conclude that unprocessed food in Brazil is healthier for the human body and allows us to return to a normal weight.

[paulsby]

24. i agree

that unprocessed food in general is healthier. i'll eat an occasional big mac, etc. but the bulk of my diet is unprocessed produce, fish, red meat, etc. my point was that the stuff is available in the US also. there is plenty of consumer choice. we also have cheaper food. generally speaking, even the higher quality stuff is cheaper especially if you use the metric of cost of food/lb as a %age of disposable income

[Nay]

42. I should have been clearer. I was talking about restaurant food in Brazil.

We ate out most of the time, at restaurants called "por kilo" restaurants. It's like a buffet restaurant with all sorts of dishes; you fill your plate, and the plate is weighed and you pay by weight (thus the "por kilo" in the name). It's the Brazilian equivalent of a fast food restaurant, I guess -- but the foods seem not to be doctored, overprocessed, or flavor-enhanced in the way they are at restaurants in the U.S.

Other types of restaurants (like the pizza place my brother and I also frequented) also seemed to make food without using premade dough (lots of additives and flavor enhancers, etc.) and other stuff that is ubiquitous here. We lost weight eating normally. It was just amazing. My brother can go back to Brazil and lose 40 pounds in 6 months.

[Orangeone]

49. I experienced that in Morocco

The food there is far from low-fat and the people I stayed with ate like 6 times a day. I never felt like pigging out because you knew there was going to be food again later!

[dysfunctional press]

51. unprocessed food anywhere is healthier for the human body.

that's almost all that i use when preparing meals.

[dysfunctional press]

50. is england part of europe?

because the whole time i was there, the food SUCKED incredibly.

the first 'meal' i had was rather indicative of the entire stay- i stopped into a deli near the hotel and got a roast beef sandwich- bread:hard as a rock, cheese: thick and hard as a rock, beef: a chunk, rather than sliced, and oh yeah- HARD as a ROCK.

and don't even get me started on their apparent national disdain for cool refreshing beverages. why do they treat ice like it was some kind of rare gem?

[yawnmaster]

3. mmmmmm...tommorrow I think I'll have me a bowl of lindt chocolate!

[Tangerine LaBamba]

4. This is why

I don't eat chicken....................

[hedgehog]

7. Nothing has any flavor anymore. Bite into a grocery store strawberry

or a grocery store tomato with your eyes closed and you can't tell the difference. Pork, beef and chicken are all shadows of what they used to taste like.

Part of the problem is that people insist on eating foods out of season. Fresh strawberries in November are just plain wrong! That reminds me - I'm gong down the road to my neighbor's stand to get some strawberries picked this morning a mile from here. Usually all the strawberries are gone by June 31, but it's been a cool summer so far.

[CoffeeCat]

11. You are so right about strawberries...

You can get strawberries for 99 cents a lb at Walmart, but they taste like cardboard. Furthermore,
they start rotting after a day and they're inedible after two days.

The other day, I got strawberries at Target for 99 cents lb. Our family loved them and we were
oohhhhing and ahhhhing over them. I realized that we liked them so much...because you could actually
taste the strawberry!

(BTW, if you go here, and click on Target Coupons, you will find a coupon for $1 off 1lb of strawberries.
The berries are $1.99 right now---so you get them for 99 cents. A good deal!).
www.afullcup.com

[hedgehog]

15. Fresh berries really only have a shelf life of 24 -48 hours.

Don't hate me, but I go outside and fill a bowl with black raspberries for my lunch these days.

[Arkansas Granny]

12. The fruits and veggies grown by commercial farms are chosen for their ability to ship and

look pretty on the shelf, not for taste or nutrition.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

16. Right -

Beef - which is big around here - is almost always marinated, and that's where the flavor comes from. It's hard to find the good cuts of meat, no matter what you're willing to buy.

The out-of-season stuff has gotten absurd. I remember when Vidalia onions only showed up in April, and then just for a month or so. It made them so special and so anticipated. Now, they have a six-month season, and, while they're still wonderful, they're not the same thrill.

Buy local, yes, if at all possible. That's where our tomatoes and eggplant and cucumbers come from, during the season.............

[napi21]

5. OH how true! I remember the taste of a great breaded pork chop

from years ago! I've tried every variety available now, and they just can't be made to taste that good! EVERYTHING is different and doesn't taste nearly as good!

The problem is that I'm not permited to raise chickens, or hogs in my back yard! I haven't found anywhere within a reasonable driving distance to buy fresh chickens or 1/2 a hog, much less anyone who raises beef to sell.

[Warpy]

6. You sound like my next door neighbor

who names her chickens after famous chicken dishes and then lets them die of old age.

I'd think the main compensation for keeping backyard chickens was being able to eat an old stewing hen who'd outlived her laying years and was starting to get old and miserable. There is absolutely nothing better in this world than stewed geriatric chicken, any recipe will do, but stewed for hours and hours to make her nice and tender. Cooking her well is a way to honor a life lived long, well and productively. Just off her out of sight of the rest of the flock. Chickens aren't that smart, but they do get the point that you're not their friend rather quickly.

Slaughtering broilers who have had their growth artificially accelerated by gawd knows what they put in the feed seems wasteful. The meat is inferior in texture and flavor.

I don't keep chickens. The only chicken I'll eat these days comes from the free range case at the local health food store. You can't cut the meat with the side of a fork and you can't taste any melamine in it, either.

Still, it's not a stewing hen and it's something I'll indulge in maybe twice a year at most.

[Liquorice]

18. That made me feel sick. :-( nt

[Mrs. Overall]

8. I also have a backyard flock and the thought of factory farming and breeding chickens

for rapid weight gain is so upsetting to me. The Cornish chicken, a meat bird, gains weight so quickly that if it is not slaughtered, its legs break because of the weight--completely bred and designed for the market. Their poor bodies are unable to reach maturity.

At some point, this country has to address factory farms--pigs, cows, and chickens. It's terrible for the animals, the environment, and the overall health of animal, worker, and consumer.

[hedgehog]

10. Obama's platform mentioned this back during the primaries.

The mere fact that he actually realized that our farm policy is killing us is one major reason I supported him.

[rollingrock]

21. Obama's appointments

Obama picked biotech industry shill (Tom Vilsack) to head the Dept of Agriculture, and Monsanto lobbyist Michael Taylor to head the FDA. He isn't on our side.

Didn't Obama promise that no lobbyist would work for his administration??



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[hedgehog]

45. Roosevelt selected Joe Kennedy to keep on eye on the stock market.

Sometimes It takes a thief to catch a thief. I'll wait to see what happens.

[valerief]

13. You've gotta bathe them in chlorine fecal water like our meat industry does

for them to taste the same.

[flvegan]

14. The joys of factory farming.

[charlie]

25. And those pink rubber ball tomatoes, ack

There's Florida grower who came up with a flavorful strain of heirloom tomatoes, giant misshapen things that looked like multicolored pumpkins. He called them Ugly Tomatoes. People loved them. And he was prohibited from selling them outside the state. Something about them being the wrong shape and damaging to the reputation of "real" Florida tomatoes. He wound up dumping $millions in stock that had been readied for transport.

I don't know what the current status of his tomatoes is, but the way he was dogpiled by state agencies for selling something other than pretty facsimiles was a travesty.

[eppur_se_muova]

44. "Traditional" chicken recipes need to be modified for these birds ...

I remember seeing a recipe for coq au vin (sp?) modified for an American "supermarket" chicken from the original recipe, which was appropriate for an older, larger, tougher chicken. Quite a difference in portions of ingredients and cooking times.

Couldn't comment on the taste & texture myself.

[Retrograde]

54. and one chicken lasts two people an awfully long time

I don't cook from recipes as a rule, but I remember when I first had a kitchen two people could eat a chicken in about 3 meals. Now it seems to take a week to get through one.

[HOLOS]

46. YES!

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bvar22]

55. Our backyard flock says HI.

No Hormones. No Antibiotics. Free Range.
Our rooster is pugnacious, but he guards the hens well while they are out.
The eggs are delicious.
I will never go back to those pale, anemic super market eggs.


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