is "bruno" homophobic?

[unblock]

glaad is objecting to it, and i'm a huge supporter of gays and gay rights and am usually the first to object to homophobia, so i want to be sentitive to this topic. but i have to admit it never really occured to me it might be offensive.


i've not seen the movie (hey, it only JUST came out and we usually wait for the dvd...), but i have seen the bruno character from "da ali g show" and i always thought it poked way more fun at homophobes than it ever did at homosexuals.

bruno was always such an over-the-top caricature that you knew it was a send-up, a fiction, you couldn't take it seriously. at least, i didn't. but the people around him always seemed real. real bigots and homophobes. and bruno made them all look like complete asses and idiots.


whaddya think?

if you've seen it already, what was your take?
if you plan on avoiding it entirely, was this issue the driving factor?

[Clintonista2]

1. No

[FreeState]

2. Yes - some people see it as homophobic - YMMV n/t

[Mari333]

3. guess some people think it isnt,

http://www.afterelton.com/movies/2009/7/brunoreview
I havent seen it, I doubt I will. Borat was enough.

[xchrom]

4. i don't need the snl/mad tv straight people version of

explainging homophobia to the world.

as a rule i defend less than masculine male images displayed on screen ala jack or bruno -- but in this current resurection -- bruno -- i think there is plenty to dislike.

[MadHound]

5. Frankly I see it as stupid,

In fact most of Cohen's work strikes me as stupid.

[imdjh]

9. +1

[HCE SuiGeneris]

40. I agree.

Occasionally quirky funny, but really relies on a juvenile/sophomoric outlook to make its point.

[pkdu]

6. Its not ( or at least not intended to be) just like Borat it uses steretypes

to get "real people" to show their bigotry. ( like the racist bigots in the Southern Rodeo in Borat)

[snake in the grass]

41. I literally almost choked to death...

...during that scene, no joke. Some parts of "Borat" made me very uncomfortable, but I found the film to be brilliant. I hope "Bruno" can reach that level.

[pkdu]

54. Yes - probably my favorite sequence in the movie

thats what I love about much of his stuff...he's constantly getting right up to , and sometimes crossing over , the line (everyones line is different too , I guess).

[Lex]

7. If a guy pretended to be black by using a bunch of racial stereotypes

to see the reactions of people he encountered, I wonder what people would think.

[imdjh]

10. Good point. Eddy Murphy did whiteface, but he couldn't really pass.

[MADem]

28. He did a superb old Jewish guy, I thought....

[trotsky]

55. Only superb?

To this day I can watch that scene and STILL not believe it's Eddie Murphy. Incredible.

[MADem]

84. I find his multi-character roles the work of a real genius.

The Nutty Professor stuff is gut-bustingly funny.

I remember the first time I saw him do a "make up" role--he played a guy who put on white makeup on SNL and "infiltrated" the "white world" and discovered that he didn't have to pay for a newspaper when there were no black people about, didn't have to pay his bus fare, and when the last black guy got off the bus, out came the champagne, hors d'ouvres and party girls....it was a terribly funny sketch.

[ColbertWatcher]

90. Agreed, he needs to do more. n/t

[unblock]

17. interesting comparison, no such movies come to mind, though plenty of gender switchings do

tootsie, mrs. doubtfire, switched, victor/victoria, e.g.

but switching races seems to be taboo.

WAIT! the chris rock remake of warren beatty's "heaven can wait", where he comes back as a rich white bastard. not exactly the scenario you describe, but close....

anyway, i think it makes a huge difference where the focus is. if a white guy does a caricature of a black man stereotype and says, "hey look at me, i'm acting black!" that would obviously be offensive. but if he does the same thing but says "hey look at all those bigots treating me differently just because they think i'm black!" that send a very different message.

[Bjorn Against]

23. Sasha Baron Cohen has actually played that character as well with Ali G

While Ali G was every bit as over the top as Bruno and Borat he never received nearly the amount of controversy. Perhaps the reason for that is simply that he wasn't as well known when Da Ali G Show was on the air so he didn't get as much media attention, but Ali G played on all kinds of stereotypes as well and he exposed the bigotry of quite a few of the people he interviewed.

[MADem]

26. Well, the Ali G character sure did a bit of that.

The stupid clothes, the idiot accent, the dumbass UK version of faux-thug commentary....

[Lilyeye]

29. He already did with the Ali G character.

[ColbertWatcher]

45. People seemed to think Ali G was a riot. n/t

[DatManFromNawlins]

50. They didn't bitch when he lampooned an ethnic minority as Borat

What I find more amusing than anything else is that when the satire gets turned on THEM, they suddenly fail to find the humor in it.

Remember "The Waterboy?" An entire movie that ripped Cajun culture up one side and down the other, and I didn't hear a single peep about how disgraceful and bigoted it was from anyone. Hell, Marvel Comics released a comic just this past week featuring the Punisher, as he goes on a rampage murdering a bunch of barefoot, overall wearing Gautreauxs who enjoy the taste of human flesh, enjoy even more the tossing of bodyparts to alligators, happen to live in a fucking shack in the swamp.

Didn't hear one goddamned complaint from anyone.

And how many times do we see Southerners lampooned on television and movies? How many times have asian people been portrayed as just plain goofy?

All the fucking time.

And here's the difference: in this movie, Baron-Cohen is using Bruno to make fun of people who are bigoted AGAINST gay people. It isn't like he's using the character to actually demean gay people.

As far as I'm concerned, everybody else can just get in line and take it on the chin like the rest of us. The fact that people are getting singularly offended by this movie but not by Borat says more about them than it does about Baron-Cohen.

[tekisui]

56. I think all derogatory depictions of stereotypes should be called out.

They are far too common in our culture and have an overall negative effect.

[Goblinmonger]

91. But Cohen IS calling them out with this movie.

Not sure if that is the point you are making or not.

[Lex]

72. Umm, hello, yes they did "bitch" about it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/598586.stm

[ColbertWatcher]

86. Fascinating article!

Although it is more about how people complained about Ali G--not Borat.

The people of Kazakhstan were the ones who didn't care for how they were portrayed in Borat (http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/19391/ ).

As far as http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/598586.stm">the article you posted goes, some interesting quotes:

(...)

In his Ali G role, Cambridge graduate Baron Cohen, who is Jewish, impersonates a white youth affecting the street slang of a black gangsta rapper.

His speciality is embarrassing public figures by interviewing them in character and asking excruciatingly ignorant questions which they fail to understand.

(...)

{British actor Felix Dexter says} "But a lot of the humour is laughing at black street culture and it is being celebrated because it allows the liberal middle classes to laugh at that culture in a context where they can retain their sense of political correctness."

Channel 4 defended Ali G, who is due to start his own show on the channel in March, by saying that the critics were missing the joke.

"He is satirising the way white kids try to copy the black street culture and look ridiculous. If it's offensive to anyone, it's offensive to white people," said a spokesman.

Ali G is kinda like Candid Camera meets Malibu's Most Wanted.

[Cali_Democrat]

87. Here's a video of Sacha Baron Cohen as Ali-G

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjKMhtyI3L8

[ColbertWatcher]

88. LOL! n/t

[HamdenRice]

95. I'm black and Cohen already did this with Ali G, which was hysterically funny to me and my family

To be fair, iirc, at some point, Cohen changed the "back story" of Ali G from being an actual dim-witted Black-British hip hop personality to a dim-witted White-British wannabe Black hip hop personality.

But yes, Cohen has done the equivalent of black face and it didn't bother me at all because he was so damned funny.

[paulsby]

8. no

and fwiw, one of the nice things about borat and bruno is they reveal how civil and polite americans actually are.

[Stevenmarc]

11. This gay man is looking forward to seeing it.

And GLAAD at times needs to pull the stick out of their ass

[and-justice-for-all]

36. This Gay man and his friends will be seeing it too...nt

[Skittles]

70. I'll be seeing it with a gay couple

fuck it, it looks like a fun movie and dammit I need some fun

[Andy Canuck]

12. I saw Bruno and laughed insanely

Bruno, the character is extreme, but he is a fiction, and he goes to the extremists, who are real, and unmasks the hatred.

It is anything but stupid, it is the bravest piece of work I have ever seen.

[Windy]

15. I just saw it too. The best part for me is when he and Lutz went after the "God Hates Fags" freaks.

I applauded.

The movie overall was funny in parts, but Borat was better imho.

[unblock]

16. that point is true, i am amazed cohen hasn't ended up in the hospital yet.

he sure knows how to piss bigots off.

then again that doesn't sound like a really hard thing to do, does it?

[Ex Lurker]

32. I'm not sure how real it is

I suspect that they've been told to play it up for the camera. Just a hunch. Some people will do anything to be on screen, including act like a rabid bigot when they may not be. I also recognized one of the alleged "real people" in Borat as an actor who had a minor part in one of the Seinfeld episodes. So I'm skeptical that any of it as real.

[Bjorn Against]

33. Some of it is real, although I can not say how much

Some of the rabid bigots that have appeared in Sasha Baron Cohen's movies or television shows have been very prominent politicians and leaders of the religious right. When their masks slip off there are serious political consequences and I do not believe for a second that they would be comfortable going in front of the camera if they knew what they were getting themselves into. Ron Paul will clearly be hurt by his appearance in this movie, he was caught on camera uttering a homophobic slur and that slur will now be heard by more people than have heard anything else the guy has ever said. There is no way that scene was staged, Ron Paul was clearly extremely uncomfortable and no sitting Congressman would put themselves through such an experience intentionally.

That being said there is no doubt that a good chunk of the movie is staged, it is really hard to say how much but if I were to estimate I would guess that about half of it is staged and the other half is real.

[Bluenorthwest]

94. The actors in Borat are openly credited as such

as is required by Union contracts. Also, for most folks it is easy to tell the difference. For example, the main character aside from Borat, his countryman, clearly an actor, as both of them are improvising a non existing language, for they make zero attempt at duplicating the real language of the characters.
The everyday people in those films are all real people, and fully unaware of the intent. That is the only way it could be done.

[HamdenRice]

96. "improvising a non existing language" -- I once read that it actually was Hebrew

that both actors spoke Hebrew and used it as the fake Khazak language, which is doubly ironic because much of the film is about the characters' anti-Semitism.

[Ikonoklast]

13. Not having seen it, I have no opinion.

But, based on his body of work, I vote for 'stupid'.

[bigwillq]

14. No.

Haven't seen it. I want to. But from what I read, it's supposed to be poking fun at homophobes.

[BoneDaddy]

18. When satire is offensive to the "majority in power" it has always been seen as ok

but god forbid we satire the underclasses.

[Bjorn Against]

19. I just saw the movie and saw what GLAAD wrote about it...

I did not think the movie was in any way homophobic, but I also think that GLAAD made some very good points. If you read GLAAD's statement here you will see that they never accused the movie of being homophobic, they did accuse it of unintentionally sending negative signals about the gay community however. GLAAD obviously recognized it was satire and they knew the point it was trying to make, they were concerned however that others would not get that point. It is true that there are several scenes in Bruno that are nothing more than over-the-top and extremely crude sex jokes, these scenes are not about exposing homophobia they are about getting cheap laughs. Make no mistake about it though, there are plenty of jokes at the expense of the homophobes and the film does attack bigotry. It was a very funny movie so I would suggest people watch it if they can handle the crude humor, but I would also suggest everyone keep GLAAD's statement in mind when they do see it because I think whether you like the movie or not I think most people will agree that their statement does contain some very fair criticism that should be taken to heart.

[imdjh]

64. Bruno would have to try extra hard to out do the networks in stereotypes.

Look at these reality shows. The mouthy black chick, the bitchy gay guy, the Chinese dork, the annoying Christian, the meathead, the aggressive white heterosexual male, the stupid redneck, the lazy fat guy, the pretty whore, etc....

[Jennicut]

20. No. Cohen uses satire to get points across as to how bigoted people can be

He is not anti gay in any way either.

[Lorien]

43. Never seen Bruno, but do you mean in the way Mel Brooks used

"Blazing Saddles" to call out racists for the bigots "morans" that they are? I see people referring to Blazing Saddles as "racist" and I'm amazed that they just don't get it.

A close friend of mine who is gay is really looking forward to seeing "Bruno"; the commercials crack him up.

[Jennicut]

53. Exactly. I think Cohen is very effective at it.

[Unvanguard]

69. Actually, the two movies are worth comparing, because their character is different.

In Blazing Saddles, the major black character is quite non-stereotypical: he's intelligent, clever, and decent. The humor value is derived from the fact that the people he's protecting are racist morons; the joke is on them because their racism is so evidently absurd.

In Bruno, to the contrary, while much of the humor is indeed derived from the absurd reactions of homophobes to Bruno's antics (though this did not turn out quite as well as planned, I think), much of the humor is also derived from the character's stereotypical behavior as well: hence the humor value, for instance, of the various "interviews" Cohen has done in character.

Done by a straight actor, so that a predominantly straight audience will laugh at it... that's objectifying, and offensive. It doesn't matter what the alleged "intent" is; of course they aren't going to come out and say "This movie is about mocking gay people." And it's not a question of outright hatred a la the conservative right: undoubtedly Cohen is perfectly supportive of gay rights. It's just the obnoxiousness of appealing to stereotypes for humor value.

[spanone]

21. it's comedy, it's satire, it's bruno

[Renew Deal]

22. Bruno is borderline aka "edgy"

I posted this in another thread...

I saw Bruno tonight. I knew the main character was some sort of european gay model, but not much more than that. This is my opinion of Bruno. Others might see it differently.

Bruno is an Austrian gay model and entertainer. He is flamboyantly gay in a way that plays heavily on stereotypes. He's very well maintained and "fashionably" dressed. He's sex crazed and this includes sex with small mice. He loves talking about penis and sex with other men.

The movie can give the impression that gay men are sex crazed perverts that love orgies, sex toys, bondage, and small animals. The movie is very funny at times, but the portrayal of gays may be over the top in a bad way. I'd love to know how other see it.

[Nailzberg]

24. Don't know, probably never will.

I find the commercial annoying, the trailer was annoying, and the talk show circuit was annoying. I also found Borat annoying. So the chances I ever watch Bruno are about the same chances I'll get in the astronaut program and step on the surface of Mars.


I did find the humor in Ali G, but the rest of his characters since have just left me with a little vomit taste in my mouth.

[orleans]

25. here is a review of bruno by a gay film critic:

http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=21760

i hate to give away what he wrote but you can find the review at the above link (the paper he writes for) or at his website at the link below.

http://www.knightatthemovies.com/

for what it's worth--i didn't see borat and i probably won't be seeing bruno--not my type of movie.

[kath]

102. Interesting review - thanks for the link.

[slackmaster]

27. I haven't seen it and don't plan to

Mr. Cohen's schtick is making his audience uncomfortable. I like being comfortable.

[tomreedtoon]

30. I know a married couple, one of whom is bisexual...

...and a very happy heterosexual couple they are. Both of them walked out of Bruno halfway through. And texted about it, "Our lives are too short to waste time with something like this."

I only have one question about this. People absolutely loved Andy Kauffman for doing offensive, the-audience-be-damned comedy like this. Why are they complaining about Sasha Baron Cohen for doing the same thing? Would people think Cohen was funny if he was dead? Is that the secret?

(By the way, if people think Kauffman is still alive and just faking it, I will be glad to rustle up a posse and correct that situation.)

[ColbertWatcher]

48. This piece from the Washington Post gives a slightly different take ...

"We're all afraid of sex. Any kind of sex -- gay, straight, bi, May-December, Michael Jackson, whatever. Forty years of gay rights after the Stonewall Inn riots in New York have not moved actual hot sex forward. In fact, the more political being gay gets, the more afraid everyone gets of sex. So much for liberation. Now we just cringe in movies, waiting to watch straight people laugh and scream and affirm their complete fear of outre carnality."

--Washington Post

Perhaps Cohen is poking fun at more than just homophobes? Maybe he's taking swipes at sexual prudes as well as the fans who worship ego-centric quasi-celebrities?

(EDITED TO ADD) I haven't seen it yet, but want to!

[unblock]

61. interesting to think of kaufman as one of cohen's inspirations

for whatever reason, i never found kaufman's humor the slightest bit funny, but i find cohen absolutely hilarious.

[Ex Lurker]

31. Haven't seen it but I find Sacha Baron Cohen extremely unfunny in general n/t

[ccharles000]

34. no

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. I haven't seen it.

But I'm pretty sure being an offensive gay stereotype is pretty much the point.

It's all the rage with the kids these days. Some new-fangled thing they're calling sapphire, or sampire, or satire, or some damn thing.

[UndertheOcean]

37. Don't be silly

[scheming daemons]

38. I'm one of the few people who didn't find "Borat" to be funny, so I'll be staying away

Have no idea if the movie is homophobic.... but Cohen is an unfunny clod, so it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

[cboy4]

39. No, I don't think the movie is homophobic, but I don't think that's the

right question.

I believe The Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation statement says it well:

New York, NY, July 10, 2009 – The Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) today issued the following statement from incoming President Jarrett Barrios in response to the film “Brüno,” which opens in movie theatres nationwide today.

“In many parts of the United States, lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people live life in harm’s way. We are among the most frequently targeted for hate crimes—including physical attacks, verbal assaults and destruction of our property. In particular, LGBT youth experience bullying and violence in school and social settings--harassment that contributes to lower self-respect, depression and increased incidence of suicide.

Into this context steps the movie “Brüno,” an 80-some-minute series of sketches apparently intended to skewer these homophobic attitudes—and get some laughs along the way. Clearly, the filmmakers wanted to use satire to highlight and challenge homophobia. But their film also reinforces troubling attitudes about gay people in ways that run counter to the intentions of the filmmakers.

The movie repeatedly builds entire scenes around stock stereotypes and situations that make gay people and families the butt of crude jokes. I can’t help but think of all the teenage kids already getting bullied, beat up and ridiculed for being--or for being thought to be--gay.. For these kids, this movie will give their tormentors one more word in the anti-gay lexicon of slurs: Bruno.

Instead of challenging stereotypes, it reinforces them for many of the those who voted to take away the freedom to marry from loving, committed gay and lesbian couples in California. Many states have gone even further—Arkansans went to the polls and effectively eliminated the ability of gay people to adopt or foster children in that state. In a cruel twist, “Brüno,” some of which was actually shot in Arkansas, includes a scene where the title character shows a talk-show audience photos of sexual activity occurring in the presence of an infant child. Can this help the gay families across the country who continue to be reduced to political punching bags at the ballot box?

It's unfortunate that “Brüno” ultimately misses the mark, particularly when there are still far too few positive images of gay people in major studio films. Some members of our community will not be offended by this film. Others, like those of us at GLAAD, find it frustrating and discouraging to be confronted with a movie that wants to increase America’s discomfort with homophobia, but which for much of America, seems likely to decrease its comfort with gay people.”

[cwydro]

59. Thanks for posting that.

I think that makes a good point.

Personally, just what I've seen of the movie seems stupid.

[cherokeeprogressive]

42. My gay daughter thinks it's using homosexuality to earn a buck.

And I think it's working.

Ever heard of "blackface"? Or "minstrel shows"? Those two things made a lot of money for bigots.

I'm with my daughter on this (She's 18 and gay) ... It's totally bigoted, making fun of bigotry for profit but not in the sense that it's intended to stop bigotry, and this asshole hasn't had to endure a single day of being "different" in real life.

[XemaSab]

46. How do you know he's never had to deal with being different?

He's Jewish and half Israeli. That might not have exactly been a cakewalk growing up. :shrug:

[unblock]

62. as for "different", he's an orthodox jew, who grew up in london.

that'll getcha different.

[KharmaTrain]

44. Out To Yank Chains...

I view Sacha along the lines of an Andy Kaufmann who is trying to not only push limits but buttons as well. I can see how Bruno is offensive to my gay friends (and non-friends as well) as it plays on a lot of stereotypes, but it also puts those stereotypes out in the open. It's not how Baron-Cohen does his thing, it's the reactions of his subjects that are where his comedy lies. It's exposing the bigotry and intolerance of others and both playing it for laughs and ridiculing it.

I'm not sure I will see the movie...may wait til it shows up on my cable. I did find it interesting that Sacha did the Letterman show as himself rather than in character...I liked the Ali G show and how he has used his characters in turning the tables on others. Yet it's understandable those who aren't familiar with his "shtick" would be outraged at some would have over his stereotyping and antics.

[ColbertWatcher]

49. I wondered why he did Letterman as himself, too.

Maybe he felt since he already promoted Borat in character, he didn't have to do the same for Brüno?

I know it's not because Letterman is homophobic (he isn't)

Although, he discussed the behind-the-scenes stuff surrounding the terrorist interview, so maybe he felt it would be better to have the actor do it instead of the character?

[KharmaTrain]

51. I Saw A Lot Of Respect Between The Two

Sacha did Conan in full Bruno...and did the Top 10 on Letterman, but I really enjoyed his two segments with Dave as himself. My take is that Sacha wanted to show he was more than just the characters he plays...not to get consumed by them as other comics have. He knows the shelf life of these "puppets" are limited and he wants to be shown in a far wider light.

[ColbertWatcher]

85. If he wants to be shown in a wider light, he should just do the damn Mercury bio already! n/t

[backscatter712]

74. Yeah, it's definitely Andy Kaufmann work.

He plays to the stereotypes, because I think he's deliberately caricaturing and exaggerating them to make the stereotypes ridiculous. He did the same thing in Borat, but the real comedy isn't Cohen's characters so much as other people's reactions to them.

I liked how Borat stirred up the rodeo, saying "I hope President Bush drinks the blood of every man, woman, and child in Iraq!"

In Bruno, he starts hitting on Ron Paul - I'll have to see the movie just to catch his reaction. :evilgrin:

[spiritual_gunfighter]

47. I never saw it as homophobic

I am with you I think Cohen is making fun of homophobes and making them look like the idiots they are. I think it is too bad GLAAD is objecting to him, because it means either they aren't getting the joke or they really haven't seen his character before.

[Dorian Gray]

52. I was curious about that myself

recently....

I don't think it looks particularly funny, though. The previews made everything feel forced.

[tekisui]

57. If it gets us all asking "how could this be seen as offensive",

it has some value. It is good to discuss how stereotyping can be harmful, if that is where the conversation goes. Too often, though, it serves more to reinforce than a conversation starter.

[SidDithers]

58. No. And I don't hink it's even supposed to be funny...

This was a good article in the Toronto Star last weekend.

Is Sacha Baron Cohen the greatest artist of his generation?

Just because actor's shtick happens to make you laugh, don't call it comedy. It is, instead, topical and audacious Art in the Pablo Picasso sense of the word. So argues the Star 's visual arts critic.

Poor Ron Paul. He just didn't know. How could he? Oh, when the Austrian TV crew invited him to a Washington, D.C., hotel suite for an interview on the economic crisis, he might have wondered why he, an abortion-hating, gun-loving Republican representative from Texas and self-described libertarian, would be cast as the official government spokesman on so important a topic.

He might have been a little surprised, too, when just before shooting was to begin, the crew's lighting equipment caught fire, causing the show's effete host to usher him quickly to safety, to the room next door.

But none of it could have prepared the 73-year-old for what came next: candlelight, soft music, and the offer of cheap champagne. The interviewer starts to gyrate slowly; Paul sits on the bed. On camera, an agitated Paul asks what's going on. "Don't worry about it, Dr. Paul," purrs the interviewer, unbuckling his belt, dropping his pants to his knees. Paul, to the surprise of no one, snaps. Sputtering something about "queers," Paul storms past the camera. "This is ENDED!" he shouts, swinging at the lens.

I think Cohen is all about exposing existing bigotry, not causing more.

Sid

[redqueen]

66. That's my take on it as well.

That's what I thought about Borat, and I got the impression this was more of a same... but with a different type of bigotry.

Thanks for posting that link.

[fascisthunter]

60. oh boy.....

[unblock]

63. interestingly, this topic gets more responses than just about any of my op's in 8 years, yet

:shrug:

[slackmaster]

67. Yet you don't have anything close to a consensus for the answer to your question

That's how it always goes with discussions about works of art. Different people see it differently.

[Deja Q]

65. Perception NOT being 9/10ths of the law...

Bruno is a creep and a freak, with no other agenda than to piss everybody off using shock jock tactics.

End of story.

[Nye Bevan]

68. Yes, for people who do not get satire.

These are also the people who thought that "Borat" was anti-Semitic.

For the rest of us, of course, the answer is "no".

[Toasterlad]

71. PEOPLE Are Homophobic. Art Is Either Offensive or Not.

And everyone, of course, if free to be offended or not.

[BlooInBloo]

73. I *thought* it was supposed to be satire. Haven't seen it, though.

[unblock]

75. one point about playing into stereotypes. it IS, after all, a MOVIE

and virtually ALL movies play into stereotypes. it's practically impossible to fully develop characters without appealing to types of characters that have appeared elsewhere -- in other movies or other social stereotypes. i mean, how well can you really get to know someone in only 2 hours?

yes, there are some movies that rely more heavily on stereotypes than others, but really, they ALL do it to some extent. even if a movie has a complex main character or two, the supporting cast will almost inevitably be fairly stereotypical. in practice it's just about the only way to compress a massive amount of character information into 2 hours.

[Unvanguard]

78. In "normal" movies you appeal to stereotypes to better establish characters.

When it is done as a means of mockery, however, in any movie, it is objectionable.

[unblock]

82. true, but if "perpetuating the stereotype" is the problem, then it's the same either way

[Goblinmonger]

92. But this movie is

mockery of the bigoted, not homosexuals.

[leftofthedial]

76. Free speech?

Can't have that!

[Unvanguard]

77. Has anyone said we should ban movies like Bruno? I don't think so.

Just because something falls under free speech does not mean it is immune to critique.

[XemaSab]

79. Here are a few broad questions:

Would the "Seinfeld" character on the show "Seinfeld" be funny if the actor was a gentile?

Was it offensive when virtually the entire cast of "Memoirs of a Geisha" was Chinese?

If the show "In Living Color" was obviously done by white people for the enjoyment of white people, would it still be funny?

Also in the show "In Living Color," was Jim Carrey's inevitable portrayal of the dorky white dude offensive?

How about the two over-the-top gays in "Men on Film," also from "In Living Color?"

Would "Milk" or "Brokeback Mountain" have been different if the actors had been gay?

Is it ever offensive when men dress up as women and portray sexist stereotypes for the purpose of comedy?

:shrug:

[Iggo]

80. Of course not.

Next...

[dipsydoodle]

81. As you said - Ali G actually pokes fun at hompophobes.

He laughs with the gay guys : not at them.

[ColbertWatcher]

89. I thought Ali G poked fun at white people who "adopt" black culture?

Or perhaps old people who believe they're young?

[dipsydoodle]

93. He does many things

I just meant in the context of the OP.

[MilesColtrane]

83. I have no desire to see Borat or Bruno.

...mainly because I don't find them, or Cohen, funny.

But, also because I don't find real life bigots (the objects of Cohen's goofs) as entertaining as the satirical character kind (Archie Bunker, Denny Crane, George Jefferson, Al Bundy, Bender)

Real life bigots are ugly, and you can walk out your door and find them pretty much anywhere if that's what you want to see.

[Bluenorthwest]

97. I have not seen the film, but

on the Ali G Show, Bruno was wonderful, and the character did good service to the show and to my objectives in life.
On the other hand, Cohen's work is of a nature that walks the edge. So I do understand that some might misunderstand it, and also that it is possible for it to fail at maintaing that balance, and wind up being what it did not want to be. Dave Chappelle walked away from his show out of concern that his humor, of good intent, might be misunderstood by bigots as being intended to tickle their funny bone. He was afraid that his skewering of stereotypes would be missed by some, and that parts of the audience would be laughing at the stereotype, not the satire. Dave is a great guy, one of my personal favorites, and he is correct in his thinking that one can cross the line and wind up mocking the wrong target, if not in reality, at least in the minds of some audience members.
Has Bruno gone over that line? I doubt it, as Cohen has walked it so well for so long. But so had Dave, and he was not sure if he could always be righteous, and he walked away from piles of money over it.
So that sort of humor is not easy, it can fail, it can be misunderstood in a million ways, but it is also the most powerful and courageous sort of comedy when it works.
To know if Bruno 'worked' this time, I'd have to see it, which I will not until it is DVD fodder or I can snooker an early copy.
One other thing that I'd like to add is that his work is mostly about prejudice. Not 'homophobia' in one, 'racism' in another, but always about prejudice. And it is very clear where Mr Cohen's heart is, and that is with the underdog, with those of us who, like Cohen, have occasion to meet the prejudice of others.

[Danmel]

98. His stuff leaves me cold

I just don't find it at all funny- just cringe inducing- I can brely look at the ads for Bruno.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

99. I Saw It Last Night

The ironic thing is he didn't find as much homophobia as you would suspect (that's a good thing) and that many of the people he finds do try to help him "fulfill his desire to be straight" as misguided as that desire is.

I was really of two minds about the movie.

[Are_grits_groceries]

100. I don't find it so.

However, the people he is making fun of won't get the satire. These are the same people who think Colbert is a conservative and on their side. They will look at the movie as justification for all their stereotypes and hate. If they don't know any gay people to counter this, the satire flies waaaaaay over their heads.

Right now the LGBT community is fighting DOMA, DADT, and for the right to marry. This movie can feed homophobia, and make it that much harder. The people who are against homosexuals to the core don't matter. They will never change because Gawd told them so. The people that are considering the issue with an open mind may find this movie moving them in the wrong direction.

Should gays be exempt from satire? No. However, this movie can be one more thing to drag around. A lot of people won't see it. However, they will see the most outrageous clips that can be shown. Those snippets make the movie that they will remember.

[EndersDame]

101. I would love to see Sacha Cohen meet Sarah Palin as one of his characters

Oh the hilarity that would ensue!You know that she is so stupid she would totally be reeled in and at his mercy. It would also be nice if he could goad her into saying something that would totally discredit her.