The United States of America Sucks.

[armyowalgreens]

It's about fucking time that someone admitted this. I am so sick and tired of all these nationalists hailing to the stars and stripes like this is divine territory.

It isn't. We are not the greatest. We are not the brightest. We are no better than any other 1st world nation. And in many ways we are worse.


We are behind on just about everything. We are behind on education. We are behind on healthcare. We are behind on civil liberties. Our economic system is jerry-rigged like Mcgyver made it out of paper clips and bubblelicious.

All we have left is our military. Is that the best we can do? Is that what makes America great? We export more weapons and death than any other country on the planet. Lets tack that award up on the wall next to the signed photo of Ronald Reagan.

What good is the constitution if no one is willing to honor it? We torture, imprison and kill innocent men and women. We abandon those in poverty. We deny each other civil liberties. We profit on death. And where are the massive protests? Where is the resistance? I am ashamed of my fellow countrymen. But most of all, I am ashamed of myself.

This country is going down like a flaming zeppelin. "Oh the humanity" is right.

[NightWatcher]

1. more like the corporate pirates are looting the US and the rest of the world

just look at what they leave behind, garbage, waste, decay, poverty.....

[armyowalgreens]

2. Like I said, they profit on death.

It's despicable.

[cali]

3. wait a minute, you actually think this is a novel thought- one that's rarely been expressed?

And I believe in the theory of apparent parados- wherein two seemingly irreconcilable realities exist within the same parameters. In other words, The U.S. sucks and the U.S. and The U.S. has some wonderful aspects to it, are both true. What's wonderful about the U.S.? Well, we're a very diverse nation. That's admirable.

I've never bought into American exceptionalism- not the rah rah version, or the one that sees the U.S. as an "evil empire". Sure, we're deeply flawed. As a great power, we've perpetrated plenty of bad, but that's one side of the coin. And yes, there is another side.

Are things hopeless? I don't know. In the long run, of course, the U.S. will fade from its prominence on the world stage, but who knows what the immediate future holds? We can only make educated guesses and even then, history tells us that the accuracy of predictions about such things is not exactly stellar.

[armyowalgreens]

4. I'm glad we are losing our "super power" image.

We got that image because we were bullies. Sure, our economic might played a roll, but the fact that we could basically level almost any nation on the planet played the biggest role.

[cali]

6. I'm not so sure we are losing that status, though it certainly wouldn't bother me

if we were. And it's far more complex than you appear to think as to how we obtained that role.

I don't live in a Manichean world.

[Divine Discontent]

5. and just imagine the countries where it's ok to starve/beat your wife for not having sex with you

or it's common practice to turn in GLBT people to the fascists to be tortured or hung in public...

those countries REALLLLLLY suck.

Sadly, we have about 1/4 of this country who truly SUCK ASS and somehow, despite having a 'progressive' majority in Congress with a Centrist president - we cannot easily get policies and programs that focus on 'the least of these', and live the compassionate life those repukes always say they're for (on Sundays around 10AM).

[armyowalgreens]

7. It's because that "1/4" or whatever it is are the loudest most aggressive assholes.

They get their way through populist rage and ignorance.

[Divine Discontent]

10. you are right... they're loud and obnoxious - the ranting fools on July 4th on the street corner at

the center of town are corrupted with hatred - they're certainly 95% racists who hate an AA man being successful and intelligent, more so than their favorite dumbass Dumbya.

I yelled at them, "where were all of you when B*sh ran the deficit up 9 TRILLION dollars????"

[timtom]

40. Or turning in people who have guns

in hopes of getting a cash reward.

[kayakjohnny]

108. Damn good post.

That is all.

[lib2DaBone]

8. Well said. 8 years of Mission Accomplished topped of with Sarah Palin..

ouch.. that hurt.

But I keep asking myself.. Why is Obama ramping up the war in Afghanistan? It doesn't make sense?

Oil...opium...or just a way to keep people busy because there are no jobs at home?

[RC]

9. We are behind most of the wars world wide.

[cali]

11. sure. The U.S. was behind Chechnya and Darfur.

It was behind the Rwandan genocide. The U.S. is the greatest evil the planet has ever known, and if we could only be neutered/destroyed/whatever, peace and joy would reign.

:rofl:

[armyowalgreens]

12. We let the Rwandan genocide happen.

The UN stood by and watched as 1,000,000 people were slaughtered in the streets. And the US did basically nothing. We were even to cowardly to admit that it was a genocide.

However, if you really want to blame a nation for the 94 genocide, you can point the finger at France.

[MicaelS]

14. Right,

And then when we do something in other situations, we get criticized for trying to be the world's policeman.

We should not have to be the world's policeman, but we are.

But unfortunately because of the lack of action on the part of other nations during the 1930s we ended up being so. If Europe had properly responded to Hitler the US would have never gotten involved in the European war, and we would not the be then hyperpower we are today. Instead pacifism attempted to rule the day, and we saw the consequences of those actions. Pacifism only works if your opponent is moral or relatively moral. Hitler was not moral. Neither were the Imperial Japanese. Gandhi would have lasted five minutes against either one.

Even today many nations refuse to get actively involved in situations that require peace-keeping troops. Active involvement means sending THEIR military personnel in harms way. Instead they default to the same group of countries, the US, the UK, France, Canada, Australia which are current major military powers. The rest of the nations of the world are going to have to be willing to get off their asses, and be willing to bear the cost in their money and their human lives when atrocities occur. The UN can't simply sit on it's collective ass and pass resolution after resolution without actually doing something.

The harsh truth is sometimes things happen that require a military response. As long as the other nations are content to let the US and a handful of other countries risk their people's lives, instead of their own people's lives, we'll continue to be the world's policemen. They can rail against our actions but I don't see them offering their people up as a replacement. I wish we did not have to be the world's policeman, but we are.

[armyowalgreens]

16. I'm not looking for a popularity contest. There will always be criticism.

And I am not a big fan of the idea that the US is the world police.

But if you honestly think it's okay for the US to sit on their hands as one of the largest mass murders in history took place, simply because other countries were not acting, you are insane.

[MicaelS]

19. I don't think it was OK for a minute.

I'm a lot more cynical than that. I really think what happened was a many politicians around the world looked at Rwanda and thought, or even said:

"Rwanda? Well, I see those Africans are at it again. Oh well, too bad, no reason our people should risk their lives for them."

That's why Rwanda happened.

[KharmaTrain]

22. Where Were The French?

The U.S. isn't the UN. Rwanda was a former Belgian colony (run like a private plantation) and the French had a lot of influence in that region. Why is it they stood by? Or any of the other members of the UN?

Hindsight is always 20/20...but the sphere and scope of the Rwandan massacre wasn't know until bodies were flowing in the rivers...many had already died. It would have taken weeks to mobilize a force that could have moved in and meanwhile the killing would have continued and possibly increased.

The US has worked best in a supportive role of indigenous groups...such as the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan (then we should have gotten the hell out...too late now) or through neighboring countries who have a far more vested interest in peace and stability in the region.

It's easy to say the US sucks...wash one's hands with tons of examples of imperialist games, but there's also a side of this country that has and can inspire positive change. It's working to create a government and national attitude that values the word over the gun.

Cheers...

[armyowalgreens]

23. The French funded much of the genocide.

But are we now going to say that X country did nothing so it's okay that the US did nothing?

All that is a load of BS. The UN had troops reporting over and over again that there were entire villages of people being slaughtered in the streets. The head of UN operations, Dallaire, repeatedly broadcast information that clearly indicated genocide. There were photos and videos.

[KharmaTrain]

24. Peace Keepers Aren't Troops...

This isn't a zero sum game...and again, hindsight is always 20/20.

To launch a succesful invasion, thousands of troops would have been needed...not a handful of observers and peacekeepers. The UN has shown time and again at being unable to stop wars and genocide and that's a reflection of ALL its members, not just the US. Also, this massacred happened right at the time the final US troops were being withdrawn from Somalia...a mission that was supposed to stop a genocide in that country that turned into a worse situation.

[cali]

15. So it wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the U.S.?

I'm sorry, but American exeptionalism is stupid- whether it's of the rah rah variety or it's opposite the hiss boo variety.

[armyowalgreens]

18. I never said it wouldn't have happened.

But what we did not do is make any significant attempt at stopping it.

[northzax]

34. Stop it? Once it started, it was, for all practical purposes, unstoppable

It was a great tragedy, no one questions that. BuT Rwanda had some unique features among 20th century genocides. This wasn't a centrally planned genocide, carried out by armies or even organized militia. It was almost entirely neighbor killing neighbor with whatever they had handy, machetes, pitchforks, clubs. There is no practical way to tell the difference between the 'sides'. This wasn't racial, it wasn't religious, it wasn't even regional. There is almost no way to tell if someone is Hutu or Tutsi. The only example I can think of is if suddenly Southern Baptists decided to start killing Southern Methodists. Yesterday they were having each other over for barbeque, today they are at war. Go into Lubbock and tell me who's Baptist and who's Methodist? You can't. They know, but you really can't. On First Street, they are living side by side, friends and family on Second Street they are killing each other They live in the same neighborhoods, they intermarry, their kids play together. So how do you stop it? It would have taken 500,000 soldiers, at least, and they'd still be there.

[armyowalgreens]

101. Wrong. The genocide was centralized and well funded.

This was not civil war. It was a one sided blood bath. The out of power Hutu party was very well organized. The RTLM spread hate speech for months leading up to the genocide. The genocide was planned well ahead of time.

Each Rwandan had an identity card identify them as hutu or tutsi or one of the other minorities. That is one of the ways that the Hutu rebels (Interahamwe) could identify Tutsis.

The machetes were shipped in massive containers. Hundreds of thousands of machetes were stockpiled just before the genocide began. Other weapons were also supplied to the rebels.

[RC]

13. Apparently you have no idea just how war mongering we are.

We lead the world in the exporting of killing machines and we have by far the biggest "defense" budget of anybody. Bigger than the rest of the world combined.

[cali]

17. Indeed I do.

I'm well aware of our history and current conflicts. But stating that we're behind most of the conflicts in the world is hyperbole.

[mmonk]

20. I wouldn't discount the Chechnya situation.

[cali]

21. of course you wouldn't.

not that you provide any reason why you believe the U.S. is behind the Russian attack on Chechnya. True believers in American exceptionalism believe fervently that the U.S. is either exceptionally good or exceptionally evil. And nothing will sway them from that position.

[mmonk]

25. I have to go to a funeral but will answer your slight later

as to why.

[cali]

26. Sorry about your loss.

[mmonk]

95. Thanks.

In regards to Chechnya, I don't have anything concrete but I have run across various mentions. This was by accident as I was studying US involvement in Central Asia and the former soviet republics. I was doing this in conjunction with my looking into our involvement early on in Afghanistan and also the attempt by some to bring Benazir Bhutto back into the picture in Pakistan(though the bush administration was more interested in keeping Musharraf). I will go back over my material and the books I was using. Here is a cursory look at a Google Search combining the words CIA+Chechnya+involvement:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1W1ADBF_en&q=CIA+Chechnya+involvement&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=


That is why I said I wouldn't discount some involvement at some level. I will go over the notes and try and remember where I saw something (it was 2 summers ago when I did something for Daily Kos).

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

113. You forgot Georgia and Sri Lanka

[summer borealis]

27. Truly, a superb rant

This is so true primarily because of the immense and growing gulf between what we are and what we could be.

Note, too, how July 4 and practically every other US holiday has become a "military" holiday, full of troops and guns and planes and flags and ... an absolute lack of IDEAS.

[razorman]

28. You can always leave.

[Lorien]

58. No, you can't. And you shouldn't

you should try to fix the problem.

Unless you have over $45,000 in savings, are under 50 and have a needed skill most other Nations won't allow to emigrate.Some of us HAVE tried.

[Joe the Liberal]

89. Yup those "Like it or leave it" people annoy me.....

They make it sound so easy but it's not.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

80. Actually, razorman, I could kick myself around the world for

not leaving when I was in my 30s and had actual job offers overseas. I never thought it would get this bad.

[Greyhound]

116. You guys always say that, but it's a lie.

We can't "always leave", other countries make such immigration very difficult to nearly impossible. The only practical ways to get into other civilized nations is to have a good sized pile of cash or be in such dire straights that even prison is a better alternative, and even then they usually end up sending you back.

Even horrible places will only let you in to work for a time, but prevent you from ever becoming a citizen.

[demwing]

29. Perhaps your thread should be titled: "I Suck, and You May Too!"

A least you acknowledge your own complicity in the list of those things you hate about America.

I disagree with your basic assumptions - that the USA is no better than any other country. Our constitution separates us from all others. But I agree with one thing - the fact that this constitution is of little value without an informed and active citizenry.

You seem to be 1/2 of that group - informed. Yet how active are you? Shouting out on a Democratic message board that "America Sucks" isn't active. It's passive. And though you recognize this about yourself, you still point the finger elsewhere first.

So, you know what needs to be done. What do you do now?

[rucky]

30. .... and DAMN PROUD OF IT! U-S-A! U-S-A!

I don't mind the mediocraty as much as the arrogance that comes along with it. Too few Americans are serious about fixing things, and become a walking contradiction to defend our current way of life - blaming government/liberals/gays/muslins/socialists for all their problems, but still insisting that "we're #1!" It only leads me to believe that they believe America is only for the well-off and white.

[Forkboy]

31. The fact that you can say this without being taken out and shot proves you wrong.

Yes, we have many, many flaws that fall far short of ideals, but suck? Nah.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

33. I thought he was referring to it in the context of so called 1st world nations.

Not that I think the country sucks since I've chosen to live here. But man has it been dragged down big time by our home grown collection of assholes.

[Forkboy]

38. No argument on that one.

The Op isn't wrong in a lot of what he says, but the country doesn't suck. We have millions of great people here who care, who do what's right, and who try to make this country live up to the ideals we espouse to others. Democracy has it's flaws (especially an unchecked capitalist driven democracy), but it's still the best game in town.

[Robb]

35. Indeed. nt

[Zynx]

32. Europe is hardly some great bastion of tolerance and liberty.

China has enumerable problems ranging from severe economic inequity to discrimination and political repression. Latin America has more problems than I can count. There are no great beacons.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

57. You got that right about Europe

In the UK, Italy, Spain, etc. they openly accept sports fans chucking bananas at black athletes while making monkey noises and white Aryan groups have cheering sections in the stadiums. If that even happened once in this country, it wouldn't last long.

[Political Heretic]

59. The best "beacons" are, sadly, small countries. Which is a gloomy prospect for our huge America.

Sometimes I wonder if we're just too big to have a more equitable society...

[Lorien]

61. The Scandinavian countries are

Most Nations in the EU are to the Left of America by a fair amount http://practical-vision.blogspot.com/2009/03/we-are-losing-america-right-before-our.html

[Zynx]

75. I would really like to see how they handle ethnic diversity.

Sweden practiced eugenics until 1976. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/background_briefings/international/290661.stm

Also, being politically left is not indicative of being a great country by itself.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

81. They're getting more ethnic diversity all the time

The Scandinavian countries have taken in refugees from all over the world.

[Zynx]

84. Compared to the United States?

Also I will point out that Sweden has seen a rising tide of racially motivated crimes and even incidents of racism by the police. Everyone attacks the U.S. for this, but in countries with far less ethnic diversity, look at what happens.

[proteus_lives]

92. This is true.

There are a lot of workers and refugees but the difference between the US and Europe is that immigrants, refugees and workers come here and become part of our culture. From what I've seen and read about in Europe is that immigrants don't assimilate.

The melting pot is sorely needed in Europe.

[Kurska]

36. You sound like the typical angsty teenager.

America isn't perfect, but man is there not only worse places to live, but america is really despite all it's flaw right up there among the best.

[redqueen]

37. Oh bullshit.

Just because you'd rather focus on the bad than the good does not negate the existence of the good.

[Forkboy]

39. Prezactly.

:thumbsup:

[Political Heretic]

56. Good, no. Exceptionalism, yes.

[slackmaster]

41. The country is going down in flames AND IT'S HAPPENING ON OUR WATCH!!!

:evilgrin:

K&U

:kick:

[Taitertots]

42. Hey, you know where the door is...

Don't let it hit your ass on the way out.

Why are you taking part in what you believe to be so wrong? It must be that you benefit from being in America more than you whine about how much it sucks.

[nashville_brook]

43. a very curious response. do you mean to say the OP'er is a parasite on America?

[Taitertots]

45. Not a parasite

I'm saying that someone who is so anti-America should GTFO.

Based on this person not leaving, it is safe to say that they realize the benefits of America compared to the other countries. Who would stay in a country they believed to be so wrong? Someone who is benefiting for being in America and knows it.

[mnhtnbb]

49. Love it or leave it crowd is generally not at DU. Many of us are very

concerned about the discrepancy between the ideals and reality of this country--particularly after
the last 8 years of Bush--and the trend towards greed which really escalated under Reagan in the 80's.

Change happens because of work on identified problems. Bitchin' without work to correct the problems
is just people flappin' their gums.

I do not agree that critical thinking identifying problems equals anti-America.

[nashville_brook]

50. yeah, that seems a more DU-y response. i wanted to make sure I was reading that poster right.

and i was. wow.

[uppityperson]

54. Good post and thank you. Dichotomous thinking "love it or leave it" is 1 of the reasons

this country is in trouble today. Being able to identify problems is a good thing to be able to do and the necessary first step to solving inevitable problems

[Taitertots]

65. Yeah, the OP is just gum flappin'

You can have a rational discussion about what is wrong and how we can work toward a better future. Or you can fly the "America sucks" banner over "This country is going down like a flaming zeppelin. "Oh the humanity" is right". That has nothing to do with critical thinking.

If someone feels so strongly that America sucks then you should leave.

[mnhtnbb]

71. I disagree. The OP expresses remorse and owns responsibility.

[Taitertots]

74. We are going to have to agree to disagree

I don't see anything in the OP that I would consider constructive commentary. It was just a hit piece.

[Lorien]

53. Sigh. I do wish that you had been a tad more original

door> ass. Come on, you could have done better than that!

Like I said, Conservatives love their country like an infant loves it's mother; without question, without seeing the fact that she's a drunken, abusive alcoholic who shoplifts and beats her other kids.Liberals love their Country like an adult loves another adult, and they want to get her into rehab. if you can't see the problem and aren't willing to work to fix it you ARE part of the problem!

[Taitertots]

62. The OP had nothing to do with loving America but wishing it was better

It was just a bitter child whining to it's parents about how unfair they are.

I'm all for calling out things that are unjust and working to make the world a better place. The OP is just hate speech. If they think it sucks that bad they should leave. Let the adults willing to discuss things rationally stay and try to work things out.

[Joe the Liberal]

77. Most people don't have the means to move anywhere else. n/t

[mnhtnbb]

44. Reality check has never been high on the US list.

We have been a thieving nation from the beginning. White Europeans came over and stole the land
from the native Americans. Then they imported Africans for slave labor. They imported Chinese to build
the railroads while stealing more land from more native Americans.

They claimed high ideals in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, but they meant those
ideals only applied to white males--and more specifically property owners.

We are still engaging in wars of empire--what else is Iraq?--after refusing to get the idea despite
all the protests and resistance during Vietnam. We have assassinated leaders of other countries
and installed puppets favorable to the American capitalists wanting access to resources in other countries.

I don't know that we are "going down" as much as we are on our last gasp of hypocrisy.

[nashville_brook]

46. that we're in a period of transformation is undeniable. that we see zero grassroots involvement...

is a very interesting issue. as a matter of fact, we aren't not only seeing a deficit of progressive populist activism -- we're seeing the first rumblings of REACTIONARY ACTIVISM in the form of television hosts calling for a "Bubba Revolution," at the same time numerous "random" acts of violence/murder against PERCEIVED progressives are escalating.

I have to say, as someone who was involved in progressive activism in the 80s, I might just have too much to lose (my ability to live in a house and keep my health insurance as someone with a chronic disease), to put myself out in front of public progressive activism. what i CAN do is provide financial support, creative support, administrative support, etc. but, I can't 'take to the streets' or even Facebook with confrontational politics.

I agree that it's amazing that there isn't a "movement" for change, yet. we are six months into the administration of what most people perceived as the 'Change you can believe in" presidency. wasn't Obama supposed to be some kind of *hero* of the people? anyone remember "Hope"?

I think that in order to have a "movement" of any kind, we're going to have to *cultivate* an environment in which our movement can take place. we need leadership that presents a meaningful strategy. Howard Dean would be the perfect public face for such a "movement." so would Robert Reich. what about Michael Moore? some public hero of progressive action needs to suggest ways in which we can raise the level of visibility to the public will.

life really DOES suck in America right now. if you make one wrong move and lose your job, you may not get another one for 6 months or a year. Then what? you lose your house you so carefully picked for the decent school system. you go bankrupt. lose your healthcare. in a very real sense, we are too insecure to form a resistance. on the other hand, people could be afraid of getting involved in anything that could escalate tensions in their immediate community. abstractly, it has to be at the back of everyone's mind that they don't want to put a target on their back for their local teabagger brigade.

Agreed that we need to "do something."

[leftofthedial]

47. Dude! We're Number One in sucking!

:woohoo:

[JVS]

48. K&U America's OK

[Lorien]

51. Shhh...the DLCers don't want no stinking TRUTH or FACTS

they've been trained well by the "America, fuck yeah"! conservatives in this country. Worship the military, say "we're number one" over and over, believe that criticism of America means that YOU PERSONALLY are being deionized and react accordingly.

Conservatives love their country like an infant loves it's mother; without question, without seeing the fact that she's a drunken, abusive alcoholic who shoplifts and beats her other kids.Liberals love their Country like an adult loves another adult, and they want to get her into rehab.

[BlooInBloo]

52. Nice emo rage.

[Political Heretic]

55. We actually are dead last behind the other top 20 industrialized nations in most key indicators

http://practical-vision.blogspot.com/2009/03/we-are-losing-america-right-before-our.html

[Odin2005]

60. -1

[uppityperson]

63. The USA as a country has some serious issues, but also some wonderful things about it

It isn't as simple as "we're number one" or "the USA sucks".

[trotsky]

78. Precisely.

And I'm very happy to see the new recommendation system putting this thread precisely where it belongs.

[nini]

64. this is a very complex country with both good and bad

Sucks is a bit much, but because we are better than many, you have the rights to scream your displeasure from the top of your lungs - Go for it.

[pipoman]

66. Just not as bad as 97.5% of the rest of the world.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

67. Yeah, what sucks about America is......

....if you lived in most other countries in this world, you'd be too brainwashed, oppressed, beaten down and institutionalized to even know that you have the right and free will to bitch about it, which is what leads you to being depressed and angry about the country you live in.

Fuck America for doing that to you!

[proteus_lives]

93. Nailed it.

:thumbsup:

[Juche]

68. Nationalistic willful ignorance sucks

I agree. Our healthcare is the most expensive and in most ways least enviable of any OECD nation but people still say 'we have the best healthcare in the world'. No we don't. We are falling extremely far behind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcz_NHAFGS0

[paulsby]

69. the same ahistorical nonsense has been spouted in the past

they were wrong then, you are wrong now.

we fucking ROCK!

[Fleshdancer]

70. I disagree

While I don't buy into the "we're #1" silliness, to say this country "sucks" is just as weird.

It's difficult not to sound overly harsh when expressing what I'm about to say, but please know my intent is not to insult you in any way...

To complain about the country that provides you the ability to log on to your personal computer in the comforts of your climate controlled dwelling that most likely contains enough food to sustain you for at least a day or two, if not an entire week or longer, shows a level of ignorance about how most of the people in this world live. America is far from perfect, but knowing the people in this country have the ability to change things for the better is amazing. You are not forced to believe in a particular religion, you are not born in a caste system, you are not required to go to war, and you can say the US sucks all day every day. Our public schools could be improved, but we have them. Certain highways and other forms of infrastructure could be improved, but we have them. Our health care system must be reformed and universal, but the ER can't refuse you.

For all our faults, no one can say we don't have a very solid foundation to build on. Our own history tells us time and time again that progress is inevitable as long as we are willing to demand it.

[nini]

72. excellent post

:thumbsup:

[Liquorice]

79. Great post. America most certainly does not suck. nt

[Joe the Liberal]

82. I believe the OP was comparing the US to other "1st world" industrialized nations.....

you have the ability "to log on to your personal computer in the comforts of your climate controlled dwelling that most likely contains enough food to sustain you for at least a day or two, if not an entire week or longer" in a lot of other countries out there. You have the ability "to change things for the better" in a lot of other countries as well.

"You are not forced to believe in a particular religion, you are not born in a caste system, you are not required to go to war, and you can say the US sucks all day every day" You can also do that in a lot of other countries too. You are not required to go to war but our history says otherwise (draft) and sometimes joining the military is the only option for some people.

"Our public schools could be improved, but we have them." Most 1st world countries have public schools that out perform the US.

"Our health care system must be reformed and universal, but the ER can't refuse you." Yes you are correct that out health care system must be reformed but it's sad that it's taken this long to get it reformed while most other civilized nations have had universal coverage for years now. The ER can't refuse you but they sure can charge you thousands for small procedures that would cost you nothing in other countries.

The US looks like paradise when you are comparing it to third world nations but compared to the other 1st world countries we are severely lacking in a lot of areas which is what I think the OP was trying to get across.

[rollingrock]

85. The US is a great country compared to Mexico and Africa, I guess

the rah rah crowd is always telling us how great we are because we aren't a starving 3rd world country (they don't seem to have very high standards), but we seem to be headed in that direction every single day.

Unemployment and job loss is at record highs with no signs of let up, massive deficits, non-stop and tremendously costly wars of choice, record gas prices, skyrocketing healthcare costs, we seem to be edging ever close to 3rd world status every day.

...you know what they say about the frog getting boiled alive, slowly but surely.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

98. You don't think that any other "1st world country" has these problems at some point historically?

I mean, really?

[rollingrock]

106. These problems are kept under control in most 1st world nations

but in the US they are allowed to fester and spiral out of control because government refuses to do little if anything to keep the robber barons in check. We have a tendency to deal with our problems in an artificial manner in a way that might put them off for a while without ever addressing the underlying problems, utilizing a haphazard approach that will inevitably lead to disaster. But the day of reckoning can't and won't be delayed forever. The accounting and financial tricks ain't gonna work this time.

Unique amongst the 1st world, we have a tendency to put our faith in the religion of the free market and we allow the corporation to reign supreme in our government. Because the free market will solve all our problems, the free market is our saviour, blah blah blah. You just gotta have enough faith and pray real hard to the man in the sky!

[Joe the Liberal]

110. I know most "1st world countries" have had these problems at some point historically....

but the difference is that they solved them years if not decades ago while in the US they are still up for debate.

[Fleshdancer]

117. America is much younger than many of the other established 1st world nations

Is it fair to compare our experiences and wisdom to countries that have been around hundreds of years longer than the US? Is it only money that makes for a "better" country? It's an interesting debate. Either way, I still stand by my bigger point: we have a very solid foundation and a history of pushing for constant improvement. I think our society is actually more open to sweeping changes that benefit this country as a whole than many other 1st world nations out there. Hell, just electing a black man as president made jaws drop around the world.

I've only lived in one other 1st world nation other than America and I assure you they had their own set of frustrating problems. Ask any Ex-pat and they'll instantly be able to give you the pro's and con's for living in whatever country they're in. If a paradise exists, I certainly haven't found it yet.

[SmileyRose]

88. Wish I would recommend this particular post.

I admit I have copy and pasted into a word doc on my computer. I have never done that on the DU before - but you phrased this so well, with so few words that I don't want to forget how elegantly it was put.

[Fleshdancer]

119. I'm honored SmileyRose

You just made my day with your kind post! :)

[proteus_lives]

94. Great post!

you hit the nail on the head.

:yourock:

[misanthrope]

111. While I agree with most of this post...

...I will say that a couple of your points aren't completely true.

The caste system? Evidence indicates that while class mobility is certainly theoretically possible here, it's reality is much more specious.

Not required to go to war? Of all the wars America has fought, only the last few have been free of conscription and it's reinstatement would be no difficult task should the need arise.

Sure we have public schools, but the very folks who own the politicians are in the process of eradicating that as well.

Infrastructure is increasingly becoming a remnant of the 20th Century and judging by recent official actions, is nowhere near as vital as soaking the upper class in public funds.

The ER can't refuse you, but they can effectively make your life hell in the wake of health emergencies.

Still, the US is better than some other nations, certainly.

[earth mom]

73. The Constitution is a great ideal, but the people of this country are too fucking greedy and selfish

and shallow to follow it and that's the damn truth.

Look no further than all the fake religions and their followers, the politicians in DC stuffing their wallets with bribes and the media working overtime to shove their agenda down everyone's throats.

And yet we have threads here on DU crying about people bashing religion, crying about anyone who dares to criticize Obama & Congress and so addicted to the cable news media that they can't turn it the fuck off.

These are supposedly "informed" DUers who can't see and refuse to see the bullshit and lies they are being fed.

You are spot on-Rec.

[misanthrope]

112. It's not the framework of the system as much as the society**nm

**

[TexasObserver]

76. Self flagellation would be quicker, and you don't need to involve others.

[Arugula Latte]

83. A lot of the problem lies with religion making people swallow irrational, stupid shit.

They buy that mythology -- they'll buy anything. They're easily led, and whoever delivers the lies with the most bluster, whether it's a rightwing baptist preacher at a foursquare megachurch or Fox "News" -- that's what they go by.

[anonymous171]

87. America has always been that way.

I'm not saying that we are a "christian nation" or anything, just that religiosity has always been a part of our country. The Progressive movement was at its strongest when it had the backing of the religious during the early 20th century.

[anonymous171]

86. Why do you care about the Constitution? I thought you didn't like America?

:shrug:

[DevonRex]

90. Thank goodness that this won't make the front page under greatest threads.

Yes we have faults. Yes we need to fix them. But there's no reason to say the US sucks.

[proteus_lives]

91. I live in a college town, I've heard this rant before.

Almost word-for-word. It's a rite of passage for for young folks, I did it myself.

Ok, give up. There rest of us will continue fighting for the American Dream. For what America can be and has been. We've been through a rough eight years but our nation has taken it on the chin before and survived. We've been through war, civil war, slavery, economic highs and lows, polio, flu, racial tension, cold war and a lot of other things. Like yourself America is barely more then a teenager. (In the historical sense, 233 years old) We're still developing/changing. You mentioned all the problems that our nation experiences (which all nations do) but I have seen anything that marks us as "doomed" we still have a long way to go.

"All we have left is our military. Is that the best we can do? Is that what makes America great? We export more weapons and death than any other country on the planet. Lets tack that award up on the wall next to the signed photo of Ronald Reagan."

Then why do people learn english? Why do thousands come here for an education? Why do people risk death in the desert to be here? There are million wonderful things about this nation. Rwanda is mentioned up-thread, do you think that could ever happen here? No, we have racism and murders and foul talk and actions based upon racism but hundreds of faiths/races/cultures live together without slaughtering each other. Look at the rest of the world, it's frankly still an amazing thing. The US, Canada and Western Europe pulled it off because of democracy.

We have issues and things to fix but I believe we can and will.

"I am ashamed of my fellow countrymen. But most of all, I am ashamed of myself." Yeah, good luck with that. When you're a kid, it's easy to have a pity-party because the country, the world didn't live up to your expectations. I believe you've said you're going into law for the purpose of helping people. You see problems? You can fix them, it's time to roll up our sleeves and get to work.

Remember, the American Experiment is still ongoing.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

97. Bravo!

Great post.

[Deja Q]

100. WELL SAID!!

And it sure as fuck isn't easy, but we're doing it in the face of it all.

The whiny OP, who would rather bleat than offer even an syllable of HOW to make things better... he can bugger off and start his own country. Then he'll really be mewling, have no doubt.

[SoxFan]

102. +++

:yourock: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :yourock:

[YvonneCa]

104. EXCELLENT. Thank you for...

...expressing this so well. We all have a duty to do the work of perfecting this democracy...our country. :patriot:

[tkmorris]

107. What Proteus said... I second that

You have your whole adult life ahead of you. Quit yer bitchin' and help the rest of us correct these things. I would imagine most of us felt the way you feel once, I even wrote something around 25 years ago that sounded similar, though a good bit longer (no internet then, had to carve it into a large boulder heh). Our country is what it is though, and it ain't all bad. What IS bad takes all of us lifting together to change, which is really hard to when when you look over your shoulder and see all those other people just sitting around telling us how we're wasting our time.

You can be a full time critic or start lifting. Your call.

[rvablue]

96. Oy! Not this again out of you. You keep saying that you are going to join the Peace Corps.

I hope that you do, so you can disabuse yourself of some of these fantasies you have about how better life is in all these other "countries," you speak of.

The reality is that life is often a lot more difficult, unjust, etc. in many of these places.

Until then, I suggest that you reach out to your local immigration center and volunteer there. You'll meet many, many people from all over the world who can tell you from firsthand experience, that while not at all perfect, the United States is a fairly decent place to live. :patriot:

[Deja Q]

99. Thanks for all the tips and suggestions you and the rest of us can do to make it un-suck.

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:


Did I mention

:sarcasm:

?

[Forkboy]

103. Wait, are you saying that was sarcasm?

:)

[and-justice-for-all]

105. America as a whole does not suck...

but things within it do in fact suck. Like all the lobbying on the hill by corporate vampires, which robs the people of the things they need.

[scheming daemons]

109. Grow up, kid... America does NOT suck. Look at this picture....

That Ghanaian understands better than you what America means.


Your teenage angst will wear off when you grow up a little, and then you'll realize that... despite its faults.... America is a good and great nation.


We fix our problems... sometimes it takes years or decades.... but we fix 'em. The election of Barack Obama shows that we can undo our mistakes.


You need a better perspective. Despite all of our problems, more people in the world want to live here than anywhere else.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

114. I just met a fellow from Ghana who is emigrating to the US.

So, yeah the US most definitely does not suck to him, or to me. We have a lot of very serious faults, but we also have a lot of truly great characteristics as well. If we sucked so much how did we do these:





and of course this:


We have problems and we should strive to correct them, but we should gain some comfort in what we can do right...

[roamer65]

126. Delete.

[Raine]

115. *Yawn*

:boring:

[Haole Girl]

118. Try living in Indonesia for awhile

You might change your mind.

[rd_kent]

120. America may suck, but it sucks less than any other place

Sure, we have our problems, but were still growing, changing and evolving. It will get better, but hang in there or move somewhere else. It's ok to critisize our goings-on, but as the saying goes "you're either part of the solution or part of the problem."

Which are you?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

121. Actually, We're A Pretty Damn Amazing Country, Even With All Of Her Ills.

Just curious though... If I actually bought you the tickets, would you leave?

[Laelth]

122. I love my country.

Four generations of my family have lived here on one side. Nine generations have lived here on the other side. I am deeply invested in the United States of America. In fact, I swore an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States, and I meant it.

Sadly, however, I must agree with you. Compared to other industrialized nations, this is not a very good place to live. My wife and I have been considering moving to Canada for several years. This makes me very sad.

:dem:

-Laelth

[ipaint]

123. Yes

And those same people in other industrialized nations would be horrified and angry to have to live with no health/dental care, low paying go nowhere jobs with no benefits and shredded almost worthless safety nets. But here fellow americans in that very position are told to suck it up at least it's not indonesia or ghana.

This country is extremely cruel to those who don't have the means, temporarily or long term, to pay the price to live.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

124. Take down the "My president rocks" sig then.....

He won't be your president any longer if you choose to flee to another country.

And remember, the grass is always greener........

[Laelth]

125. My President DOES rock, and he is still my President.

I will take down the icon when (and if) I move.

:dem:

-Laelth

[roamer65]

127. I have real doubts the republic will exist in 10 years.

This country is entering a very challenging period in its history, IMHO.

We haven't seen this kind of polarization in a long time.

[proteus_lives]

128. The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

:thumbsdown: