Another flag story... Police seize flag being flown upside down!

[Serial Mom]

ACLU may sue in case where police seized upside down flag
By Associated Press

Posted: July 10, 2009

Wausau - A U.S. flag flown upside down as a protest in a northern Wisconsin village was seized by police before a Fourth of July parade and the businessman who flew it - an Iraq war veteran - claims the officers trespassed and stole his property.

A day after the parade, police returned the flag and the man's protest - over a liquor license - continued.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin is considering legal action against the Village of Crivitz for violating Vito Congine Jr.'s First Amendment rights, Executive Director Chris Ahmuty said.

"It is not often that you see something this blatant," Ahmuty said. "The fact that police on Independence Day of all days would come onto private property without permission and shut down his protest is very disturbing."



http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/50476222.html

[X_Digger]

1. k&r! n/t

[enlightenment]

2. Well, I know this isn't the popular view here, but

technically he was in violation of the Federal Flag code, since he was not in dire distress or extreme danger . . .

[TokenQueer]

5. I think waking up in a Police State qualifies as dire distress and extreme danger.

Hyperbolic, I know.... :shrug: just sayin'

[NoPasaran]

25. Dispute over a liquor license = Police State?

Yeah, maybe just a little hyperbolic.

[MNDemNY]

6. Federal Flag Code???

Fuck that I wipe my ass with that. What are the penalties for violating the "flag code'????

[Vincardog]

23. Is that the same Federal Flag Code that says we should BURN FLAGS?

[realisticphish]

8. The Federal Flag code isn't a law

it's a non-binding regulation for military handling of the American flag.

It's like arresting someone for violating the Food Pyramid

[enlightenment]

15. I didn't say it was.

However, it does serve as a reference to all citizens (including the adolescent who posted just above you), not just to the military.

The police overstepped their authority - but the man was over the top flying the flag upside down to protest not getting a liquor license.

[ThirdWorldJohn]

20. Since when is the public required to consult with you for the proper

way or the limitations involved with exercising their freedom of speech?

[enlightenment]

22. I don't know how you managed to pull that opinion from what I wrote,

but your failure to comprehend simple language isn't my problem.

[ThirdWorldJohn]

31. but the man was over the top flying the flag upside down to protest not getting a liquor license.

The over the top comment I guess.
It seems to me that you probably think that the flag only represents the innocence of the country(represented by the white color) - The loyal of the country (Represented by the blue color) - and the blood of the brave of this country (Represented by the red color).
But you have to see that the flag belongs to all of the free people in this country.
And the free can express their view on any subject as they wish. You make such succinct comments that one has to try to imagine what you are thinking and when one does you act angry and all knowing - which you are because you only know what is in your mind.
And then you act angry.
If you need a really good fight - then I am sorry but you don't really measure up to being able.

Care to explain what "over the top" means. I mean if you are able? Is it like breaking the law. Or like in your face or disrespecting a city government. Or is it just your opinion in the matter that does not really matter?

Have you ever called the Feds because someone violated the Federal Flag code. You seem to offer it up as some sort of valid reason for a person's right to free speech. And then also a reason for their right to be free from an illegal search and seizure to be violated. Was that why you posted about the Federal Flag code? You never did explain your position but seemed to allow, by the omission, for others who read your post, to know what you meant and why you posted it?

If you are able, please explain yourself.

[Flying Dream Blues]

26. Over the top? Was it over the top to fly it upside down when * was

in office? Some would have thought so, I'm sure. That's why we have free speech.

[uppityperson]

33. Indeed and thank you. Was hoping someone would point that out

Incredible that now that we have a Dem Pres I read "america, love it or leave it" "omg how dare they fly the flag in distress position" and :you MUST sign up for selective service, it is your Duty". Wild. Off to freeze strawberries

[realisticphish]

35. but it's not actionable by police

at all! it is non enforceable against civilians. Disagree with the sentiment of the flag? Sure, that's cool. But there is no authority, police or otherwise, that can enforce the flag code against civilians.

and the whole point here is that the flag code is irrelevant to the situation. It has no effect whatsoever, besides voluntary obedience.

[conscious evolution]

17. What are you in for?

I tore the mattress tags off.

Someone should make that cop write on a chalk board a thousand times-"I will not abuse my authority".

[lindisfarne]

28. If it was a law, it would be unconstitutional. n/t

[RB TexLa]

16. What are the punishments listed for violating the federal flag code?

[struggle4progress]

18. As a general rule, local officials enforce local law, not federal law -- and IIRC the flag code

involves no penalties

[ThirdWorldJohn]

19. The police officers and those who gave

the orders to violate that veterans freedom from illegal search and seizure and freedom of speech are in violation of the Constitution of the United States of America. Also technically they did not even try to inform the veteran about the Federal Flag code or seem at all to care about that aspect of the flying flag at all. They also threatened another citizen with arrest for inquiring about their illegal acts - and that shows me that they knew their actions were crimes against the public.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. And what are the penalties for violating this code?

[lindisfarne]

27. Federal Flag code does not trump First Amendment of Constitution.n/t

[PretzelWarrior]

38. doesn't matter. It's a fucking flag. We LOVED proclaiming our rights to fly it upside down

back under Bush. We may believe we had a real reason to do so...but so do these people. I support the ACLU's defense of these cases.

It is just a fucking flag, folks.

[TahitiNut]

39. DISSENT, by its very nature, is unpopular. Violating the Flag Code is one of the mildest forms of

... civil disobedience. While the U.S. Code does, indeed, prescribe the proper handling and display of the flag, there are NO penalties prescribed not is a violation deemed even a misdemeanor. (One might as well codify Emily Post.)

[Kurska]

3. If you can burn a flag, you can hang it upside down.

There is no legal grey area here, the

[G_j]

4. over a liquor license...

at first I thought it would be a Glen Beck fan.
They clearly trespassed, and it sounds like he has a solid case.

[timtom]

7. I don't believe the flag code is enforceable

in the civilian populace.

[realisticphish]

9. nope nt

[rd_kent]

10. It never ceases to amaze me

I say this as a 21 year Navy veteran. The frickin flag is not protected! It is our right, as americans, to dissent and protest. Period. This guys should take this town, and the INDIVIDUALS who took away his rights, and hold them accountable.

[beac]

11. When are they going to go after THIS flag desecrater?

[Tan Gent]

12. Or THIS one

[progressoid]

13. Or this one...

[Tan Gent]

14. Thanks...that's the one I was looking for but it got misplaced

:D

[Poiuyt]

29. Or this one

[progressoid]

36. Aaaack!!

MY EYES!!!!

I'm gonna need a strong drink now.

[davidpdx]

37. That's just fucking scary

And SOOOOO wrong!

[TheMightyFavog]

21. This happened a few miles north of me. It doens't surprise me at all.

The area's known for being extremely conservative. Lots of fundies and other assorted RW's up there. Nationalist sentiment (what they call "patriotism") runs very high up there as well. Throw in the fact it was the 4th, and that a soldier from the nearby town of Peshtigo had killed in Afghanistan a few days before, and that probably made the cops do what they did to keep the locals from storming the place with torches and pitchforks. (doesn't excuse it, IMHO)

The backlash has already started. I've heard lots of locals calling for a boycott of Mr. Congine's place of business.

[TexasObserver]

30. Unfortunately, most law enforcement know almost nothing about constitutional rights.

They know the practices they are taught, among them disdain for anyone who tries to tell them about the constitutional rights we have as Americans. Nothing will get you placed in handcuffs faster than telling a police officer he's violating your constitutional rights.

Police don't care what the constitution says, and in fact, many disdain the rights we have, disdain judges, disdain lawyers, and disdain the processes we have to protect us from having uniformed goons taking down our flags or otherwise trampling our rights.

[ThirdWorldJohn]

32. That's sad since more and more are ex-military who took an oath to uphold it.

[TexasObserver]

34. Yes, and that's another area where detachment from the real constitution is significant.

I enjoyed my military time, but it was the most ignorant part of my adult life. I didn't know diddly about the constitution. I knew what my orders were and who I took them from. I knew the mythology of duty, honor, country.

It's understandable that most soldiers have no concept of our constitution, and I truly mean "no concept." If they go directly into law enforcement, they never learn, either. The constitution becomes that piece of paper that judges use to keep them from beating confessions out of scumbags, or keep them from testifying about things aren't facts, but hunches.