What is the purpose of grief in the animal kingdom?

[sharesunited]

Our cat killed her first bird today. She has caught birds and chipmunks before, but has only managed to play with them until they could be rescued and released by yours truly.

But she must have attacked this juvenile robin today with such a bad combination of gusto and clumsiness that she dispatched the poor thing before it could be saved.

I was alerted to the crime by the sound of every bird in the neighborhood suddenly gathered in the trees in my yard yelling "Murder!" (This was the first remarkable thing, to see and hear the community cry of alarm across the bird spectrum. Why does a wren care what happens to a robin?) Leading the cry was father robin, whose distress call obviously summoned the others.

I made the cat drop her victim, and brought her into the house, leaving the lifeless body on the lawn for a time.

Then I observed that the assembled birds drifted away, leaving father robin as the remaining witness and mourner. He was joined briefly on the branch by a squirrel who, for some reason, peed before also departing. (Was this sympathy, disapproval, or just curiosity and a full bladder?)

Father robin stayed for a half hour, uttering a slow, steady chirp like a dirge, as he turned his head sideways to gaze upon his dead child from above, cautious not to light upon the ground for fear of being attacked by a cat.

I have seen film of a chimp grieving her dead baby, and elephants grieving a departed elder. But bird grief is new to me.

He finally mustered the courage to bring a cricket to the child, apparently hoping to resuscitate it with food. Finally accepting the stark mechanics of death, father robin also left the scene.

This was a moving and troubling experience for me. It made me wonder what the purpose of grief is at the animal level. I know there is a substantial body of work on the human psychology of grief and healing. But birds? Really? Birds? I was truly in awe, and still am.

[BlooInBloo]

1. We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

[sharesunited]

2. Franklin meets zoology. n/t

[Cleita]

3. Birds I have noticed are very emotional. I once witnessed a pigeon hit and

killed by a car. A neighbor moved the body to grass on a curb because she told me that the mate was going to try to be with it and there was no need for two deaths. The mate of the pigeon mourned and crooned about his mate for two days and then finally flew away.

[elleng]

4. JUVENILE robin, you said.

Part of the answer? Do all/most species recognize need/desirability to enable all at least to get into gear?

[sharesunited]

5. Hillary's It Takes A Village meets zoology. n/t

[Mz Pip]

6. I know that animals grieve

and it is not just our projecting our feeling onto them. When one of our cats was killed last year by a neighborhood dog, his constant companion of many years wandered around the house at night for weeks meowing. It was really sad.

Mammals bond; I think part of it must be because they must have some inner driving force to care for their young - unlike reptiles that just lay eggs and wander off and leave their young to fend for themselves.

I doubt animals process grief the same way we do but they do still grieve.

[sharesunited]

10. Warm blood is the common characteristic of care? n/t

[izquierdista]

27. Biologists draw the line there

At the reptile and lower level, smaller animals, even if they are your own offspring are just potential food items. Alligators, being the most advanced reptiles, will care for their own in infancy, but not much beyond that. Most all warm-blooded animals (birds and mammals) invest considerably more resources in raising children, protecting them from predators, and grief is a learning lesson when that care goes fatally wrong for the youngster. That robin will be much more vigilant against cats in the future.

[Hawkowl]

34. People ARE ANIMALS

Really. We are made of meat and we are too often governed by hormones and impulse. The OP could very well have asked "why do people grieve"?

[old mark]

60. ...something we animals too often forget,

which leads to big problems for all of us animals...:shrug:

markO8)

[Mari333]

63. yep.

our arrogance and hubris are astounding.

[flvegan]

7. I think it's both funny and sad how little is thought of animals in general.

[BlooInBloo]

9. I think of them all the time. Right now, I'm thinking about which one I wanna eat next.

[flvegan]

13. So clever.

Bloo, in case I've never said it before, I just want you to know how simply blessed we are that you've chosen to occupy this site.

[BlooInBloo]

16. I love you too!

[sharesunited]

19. Like the semi-interested squirrel who peed. n/t

[Butch350]

45. Well then...

EAT ME!

[WildEyedLiberal]

22. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought the tone of the OP was odd

Nothing against the OP, who certainly comes across as genuine. But the puzzlement over the fact that animals grieve and display emotions, attachment, love, and the need to "study" and analyze it from a psychological perspective? Just... odd.

[sharesunited]

52. It was a moment of enlightenment from my prior ignorance. Light bulb moment. n/t

[armyowalgreens]

8. There has been very little scientific research on non-human consciousness...

Which is frightening because we treat almost all other animals like tools to be used for whatever we please.

We already know that certain primates and other animals are "self-aware" and have levels of consciousness. We need to treat all animals with respect.

[Buck Laser]

14. Actually there's a field of study for that. It's called ethology.

I poked around in the literature some years ago. The traditional scientific view has been that only humans have conscious thought, and that everything animals do is mere instinct. Rene Descartes gave us that view, and it's proved very handy for religious folk to assert their primacy over other animals. On the other hand, most of us animals are really interdependent.

I'm convinced that interspecies emotions are pretty clearly evident as well. My dog is a therapy dog in that he can sense my depressions and immediately come to give comfort. Of course, sometimes he's a pain in the ass, but DAMN it's good when he's there in my need.

[CTyankee]

26. Where do we get the idea that we are apart from "nature"?

We are all, all part of what we call nature. It is an unbrokeable thread forever. There is no difference, except in our ability to speak words.

We are all animals. Why do we not see that?

[BlooInBloo]

31. Mainly from Aristotle.

This has been another episode of Simple Answers To Simple Questions.

[CTyankee]

65. It's funny. Just another example of Aristotle having something to say on just

about everything! I don't recall that instance but I sure have some of his ideas on value firmly engraved in my head, ever since that grad course on Economics I took (I must have lost my mind to ever do such a thing...).

[KittyWampus]

43. Alex the parrot could also speak words.

[shireen]

59. is he a certified therapy dog? How does that process work?

I adore dogs, and i'm so glad you have such a good friend. They are extraordinarily perceptive, and so loving.

[robinlynne]

11. beautiful OP. thank-you. how sad.

[ColbertWatcher]

12. Were any crows around?

To see the kill or participate in the "mourning"?

I only ask because if so, your cat may soon be visited by some bird vengeance.

[sharesunited]

15. No crows, but I fear for her safety and the justice which may very well await.

A raccoon would actually be the likely executioner, operating (1) in its own interest, and (2) according to karma and balance in the cosmos.

[bertman]

57. Around our house, it's the crows and owls who are snatching young birds out of nests.

Several times a season, the bird community alarm system goes off and we run to see which nest is getting invaded this time.

Nature, red in tooth and claw.

And beak.

There does appear to be a grieving period for birds. Or at least a short time when they have not given up hope that their baby is still alive. Whether it's grief or just the parenting instinct to find the missing young one, I have no idea.

[surrealAmerican]

17. As to why the wrens care ...

... they care because they see a danger to themselves. They are all marking this as the place where a dangerous animal is.

The father robin's behavior is really moving. We are not so different from other animals as we try to believe we are.

[Double T]

18. Your story certainly destroys the myth by some that animals are 'dumb'.

A large segment of the human population has little or no regard for animals. I believe animals should be respected, guarded and protected at the same level as humans. Who ever appointed humans as the decider of which living breathing creatures have feelings, emotions and the right to live or die? Great story, thank you.

[LWolf]

20. Does grief have a purpose?

I've never really thought about grief that way. It just is. If it has a purpose, it could be to process loss.

Loss without grief; what would that be like?

From my perspective, non-human animals grieve over loss like humans do, although perhaps not for as long a time.

Probably for the same reasons.

[jwirr]

21. I don't think you were seeing grief. Instead the father was watching

for signs of life so that he could help if possible. Just as the loud warning was an attempt to help.

[sharesunited]

25. Good call, per dad's offer of a cricket. Maybe I'm anthropomorphizing? n/t

[EFerrari]

30. Yes. And it's likely that our "grief" was meant for the same purpose --

to see if help could help.

[InvisibleTouch]

23. I saw it by the side of the road once.

Starlings. One was dead, presumably hit by a car. His/her mate was there by the body, unhurt but clearly traumatized.

I'm not sure there's a selective "purpose" to anybody's grief, regardless of species, but it's a byproduct of being able to form bonds with other living beings. And it's hardly exclusive to humans, nor even to birds and mammals: crocodilians defend their young vigorously - even the young of other parents - and I know of pet snakes who have died of grief upon losing the mate who lived with them.

[The Wielding Truth]

24. All higher species have a complex emotionally responsive

survival reactions.

We all came up the evolutionary ladder, and those who care for those in trouble caused more to survive and breed, thus passing on the trait to help.

It is in are DNA to alert those around us to danger and those noises if extreme enough do protect others from being unaware, are more likely to help them avoid being taken.

Yes, it is amazing to see that in the natural world, all animals have a sense of companionship, interrelationships, and family.

We are all Mother Earth's creations.

Don't expect nature to be kind,however. It is the wise,lucky,agile,and adaptable who are the most likely to survive. The protection of community is the most civil way to save a soul from harm,but it involves an awareness of others and that is difficult in a greedy society.I think that is how we differ from the RW. We are aware of the suffering of others and we want to circle the wagons and protect the weakest to help for the greatest good. It is a more complex reasoning that makes us the "libr'ls".

I am proud to have that trait. Thank you for showing me your connectiveness to all things. I like to think of this interconnectiveness as our humanity.

[spanone]

28. same as humans...we're just animals that drive.

[EFerrari]

32. I don't know whose idea this is but he said, we're just animals that tell stories.

[BlooInBloo]

35. That's a better way of putting it, over the driving bit.

[undeterred]

29. I think its impossible for us to know what animals experience.

[proteus_lives]

33. Probably a warning.

"I was alerted to the crime by the sound of every bird in the neighborhood suddenly gathered in the trees in my yard yelling "Murder!" (This was the first remarkable thing, to see and hear the community cry of alarm across the bird spectrum. Why does a wren care what happens to a robin?) Leading the cry was father robin, whose distress call obviously summoned the others."

They are probably going "Predator!! Predator nearby!"

"Father Robin" How did you know that they were related? I think you might be projecting onto the robin.

[sharesunited]

39. My choices were father robin or mother robin. But he was male. n/t

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

36. I got an idea. Keep the cat indoors and you won't have to ponder these things.

I don't blame the cats, they are doing what they do. Cat owners who let their cats wander around are irresponsible. It's bad for wildlife and bad for the cats.

[sharesunited]

38. The birds wish to express their thanks for your communicating their thoughts perfectly. n/t

[JackDragna]

37. It could be the brain's way of expunging stress.

Unpleasant happenings put stress on organisms, even humans. Grief and mourning may be our way of coming to terms with the experience so we can again reach a normal level of cognition and emotional stability.

[sharesunited]

40. Dragna and Capone caused a lot of stress, eh? n/t

[JackDragna]

48. Capone, yes. Dragna, not so much. :)

He was a boob.

[KittyWampus]

47. what a great answer.

[JackDragna]

49. I hope this isn't sarcasm. :)

If it's not, it comes from years doing evolutionary biology.

[KittyWampus]

50. Not at all, I am still comtemplating it. Isn't all of Life the building up and discharge of one

kind of energy or other?

[sharesunited]

51. From the Big Bang forward, 'twas ever thus. n/t

[Lorien]

41. Kitty bells save lives

you can save other animals from the same fate simply by belling your cat. I had a semi-feral for years who was quite a hunter until I got a bell around his neck. He spent the rest of his years learning how to relax in the sun and dining on canned cat food instead of flying squirrels. A win-win for everyone!

And yes, most animals experience grief. I lost my favorite kitty in 2003 and his best buddy of 14 years became so overcome with grief that he didn't eat for over a week and cried almost nonstop. The only thing that brought him back to health was a new kitten-I wasn't ready for a new cat, but my poor old Miro couldn't go for another day without one!

[sharesunited]

42. Thanks! Maddie wears a bell and is confined to the back yard.

Curfew is two hours after first setting foot outdoors for the day's backyard session.

[scheming daemons]

44. The bird's brain is the size of a pea... I think you're anthropomorphizing....

[Butch350]

46. Your right. It's brain should be proportional to it's body.

What is your point?

[TexasObserver]

53. Squirrels and birds vie for space and food. He was marking territory.

Father Robin was caring for his young, and offered food as the only help he knew. Calling it grief may be a stretch, but there's no doubt animals tend to care deeply for their young.

As for the other birds, they were reacting to predation in their midst. All prey in the area would similarly react, including the squirrel. Cats and squirrels are big time enemies.

[sharesunited]

54. You're saying the squirrel peed his furry pants. It was fear. n/t

[TexasObserver]

55. I said he was marking his territory.

If it was fear, he'd have evidenced it when the cat was nearby.

Squirrels fear cats. They don't fear birds of the size you mentioned, and will attack them. They only fear larger birds, such as owls, hawks, eagles, or falcon. Some Jays are large enough that squirrels fear them.

It helps it you try not to project your emotions onto animals.

[sharesunited]

56. OK but they were displaying their emotions to me. n/t

[TexasObserver]

58. Elephants, whales and some primates clearly show grief.

Elephants have an ability to sniff the bones of long dead relatives and recognize them.

Mammals and birds are biologically driven to care for their young, but the period one might call grief is very short with most of them. They quickly move on, as necessity dictates.

I think your inferring sadness or regret on their part is probably correct. They don't understand it, but they know they're compelled to raise and protect the newborn, and know when the newborn has died.

[RagAss]

61. What is the purpose of grief in the human "kingdom"?

I'm thinking birds were here before we were. Who are we to ask the question anyway.

[KittyWampus]

66. Who are we to ask the question? I'd say we are the curious ones.

[RagAss]

67. The arrogant ones.

[Mari333]

62. thats part of what turned me vegan

the realization that i am no different then any other animal on this earth. they are all my brothers and sisters.

[GeorgeGist]

64. Acceptance of death ...

takes a while.