I would bet my marbles the health insurance companies are posting here.

[wroberts189]

Going after Moore/Sicko to be a bit more specific. But other related topics as well.

And I am wearing one of those new harmonically magnetized lead helmets with a 600 watt power supply. So I know I am safe from their transmissions. ..ok maybe I am ..maybe I'm not.

So if you need a job I hear they are paying well. Qualifications... no sense of ethics, morality, fairness and the willingness to put ones soul up for sale... and oh yeah .. a high post count on DU.

Just figured I would mention it. Maybe I am wrong. I have no proof except a strange email offering me several thousand to promote the same talking points they showed on Bill Moyers's show.

Ok maybe I lied about a few things but here is the show with the industry talking points...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wendell Potter on Profits Before Patients

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile.html

snip from transcript:


BILL MOYERS: You were also involved in the campaign by the industry to discredit Michael Moore and his film "Sicko" in 2007. In that film Moore went to several countries around the world, and reported that their health care system was better than our health care system, in particular, Canada and England. Take a look at this.

(me: he shows clip of Moore's movie of England where no one pays anything. All the patients he interviews are shocked at the concept of paying ..they basically laugh it all off.)


WENDELL POTTER: I thought that he hit the nail on the head with his movie. But the industry, from the moment that the industry learned that Michael Moore was taking on the health care industry, it was really concerned.

BILL MOYERS: What were they afraid of?

WENDELL POTTER: They were afraid that people would believe Michael Moore.

BILL MOYERS: We obtained a copy of the game plan that was adopted by the industry's trade association, AHIP. And it spells out the industry strategies in gold letters. It says, "Highlight horror stories of government-run systems." What was that about?

WENDELL POTTER: The industry has always tried to make Americans think that government-run systems are the worst thing that could possibly happen to them, that if you even consider that, you're heading down on the slippery slope towards socialism. So they have used scare tactics for years and years and years, to keep that from happening. If there were a broader program like our Medicare program, it could potentially reduce the profits of these big companies. So that is their biggest concern.

BILL MOYERS: And there was a political strategy. "Position Sicko as a threat to Democrats' larger agenda." What does that mean?

WENDELL POTTER: That means that part of the effort to discredit this film was to use lobbyists and their own staff to go onto Capitol Hill and say, "Look, you don't want to believe this movie. You don't want to talk about it. You don't want to endorse it. And if you do, we can make things tough for you."

BILL MOYERS: How?

WENDELL POTTER: By running ads, commercials in your home district when you're running for reelection, not contributing to your campaigns again, or contributing to your competitor.

BILL MOYERS: This is fascinating. You know, "Build awareness among centrist Democratic policy organizations--"

WENDELL POTTER: Right.

BILL MOYERS: "--including the Democratic Leadership Council."

WENDELL POTTER: Absolutely.

BILL MOYERS: Then it says, "Message to Democratic insiders. Embracing Moore is one-way ticket back to minority party status."

WENDELL POTTER: Yeah.

BILL MOYERS: Now, that's exactly what they did, didn't they? They--

WENDELL POTTER: Absolutely.

BILL MOYERS: --radicalized Moore, so that his message was discredited because the messenger was seen to be radical.


More:


http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/transcript2.html

[thunder rising]

1. To be sure there are industry concern trolls for ever topic. Just post something negative about FPL

and find out.

Something to do with ... why do we need hundreds of miles of lit highways? Answer, to push the non-peak use of power up, that can then be used to justify more peak capacity (nukes?)

[tavalon]

32. Do you really think Florida Power and Light really gives a damn about what DUers think?

I kind of feel the same about the insurance companies. I don't think they see us as that important or powerful. I hope they are wrong.

[berni_mccoy]

2. The Health Insurance Companies KNOW they are the problem. They are killing Americans.

They are killing tens of thousands of Americans each year by denying them healthcare.

[cabluedem]

37. So are tobbaco companies. Its for profit.nt

[the blues]

3. K&R& thanks for the heads-up. And btw...

...how are those lead helmets? I've always gone with the DIY aluminum foil model, but maybe it's time to upgrade.... :tinfoilhat:

[wroberts189]

6. Your welcome. They are very heavy and its hard to hear but you got to do what you got to do. nt

[the blues]

18. lol... ain't it the truth

[scheming daemons]

4. They're spending $1.4 million PER DAY... so I'm sure you're right

[sharesunited]

8. What expense is that built into and passed along to us?

Medicare for All, and don't let Medicare off the hook. Reimburse fairly or truly take over. This wanting to have it both ways is a real obstacle.

[wroberts189]

12. Excellent point. Thanks ... its good to have company. nt

[slipslidingaway]

5. Just posted about the AHIP plan to discredit SICKO in another

thread, it would be intersting to see what else was listed.

And do not forget about Dr. Gupta and his CNN piece.

[wroberts189]

7. Dr Gupta.. His old piece or a new one?? nt

[slipslidingaway]

10. Old piece... he was considered for Surgeon General. n/t

[flyarm]

9. do you have a link to where those helmets can be purchased???..gotta have one!! eom

[wroberts189]

17. No link but I hear you can get them on late night tv infomercials. nt

[Canuckistanian]

11. I think you're right - and not just about health insurance

I'm noticing a few long-time posters suddenly spewing RW talking points on a few subjects.

They seem to show up whenever "their subject" pops up, always with a pageful of handy links, ready at a moment's notice. And I've noticed these posters using the same "page full o'links" in multiple threads.

One of them even tried to tell me what a shit health care system I had in my own country, Canada. The poster just overwhelmed me with RW/corporatist/AMA shit until I had to put them on ignore.

It's really creeping me out.

[wroberts189]

19. Thx.. It's really why I throw the concept out the the way I do...

Make it like a joke but still get others to at least think about it. Us Americans are a little thick but most of us have brains and if you point something out they may keep it in mind. Knowing these things (the army of darkness is around) is the only way to stay sane here at DU .. just don't outright accuse anyone. A recent greatest page post was "We all need thicker skins" ..exactly.

They always expose themselves in the end. You see posts like "I see someone on my ignore list is at it again" and then from another "your not missing anything same old crap"

[dmr]

23. "pageful of handy links, ready at a moment's notice"

I've noticed that through the years on a variety of meaningful topics. It's a telling sign, especially when they show up with back-up to straw man or hijack the threads.

You don't want to engage dialogue with them, but you can't not address their sabotage because that is their goal. Shut good discussion down while swaying others to their kind of thinking.

They play dirty with blood money.

[wroberts189]

26. There needs to be a guide.. "Dealing with trolls, shills, and other nasties on DU." nt

[PATRICK]

13. The openly dark "secrets"

Our whole way of life is embedded with insurance companies, a variation of something the Ponzi scheme and capitalism in general has made essential to our culture. The news and discussion is wholly derived from and sympathetic both to the sources and the cultural system it creates. Anyone who base any part of the discussion on these sources empowers them. Any who interject change as a competition or member of the discussion based on the above are corrupted in thinking and absurd in position by accepting criminality and illogic as on an intellectual plane with positive sane actions like universal health care.

Since our "victory" in 2006 some have passed over the lack of confrontation or change in debate and have been frustrated by: the continued unchallenged power of the framers of debate and the controllers of the money system, the inability to work change underneath this domination as if it is unexplainable and a personal failure of well intentioned naifs and believers in the myths(yet so selectively cynical about truth and progressives). We never ever had a revolutionary change through elections. We accepted a lot of compromised Democratic leadership as a bargain to avoid catastrophic dictatorship of the Right. If WE leave the game there it will not necessarily progress if we rely on the greedy and powerful to screw up and move aside and accept the still corrupted elements of the single party that has a chance- when it feels like it- to represent the people, justice and truth..

Anytime you feel the MSM is majorly on your side, telling the truth, advocating for the people, doubt yourself before feeling giddy or hopeful. That rule is always violated. The sucker is always had. The sucker will always exhibit guilty anger and defensiveness, because down deep there lies the buried truth.

[imdjh]

14. I'd be surprised if they give a shit what anyone says here. Congress doesn't seem to either. nt

[wroberts189]

20. I would be suprised if they did not.

We call our Reps. and Sens.

We write letters to the editor.

We advocate.

We contact the media.

We are seen and heard and watched by many in the media.


Just to name a few....

[dmr]

25. We also educate. n/t

[wantoutnow]

15. you would keep your marbles then

there are most certainly industry propagandists on here. You would win that bet

[wroberts189]

22. I am picking them up off the floor now.. thought I had lost them. nt

[Voice for Peace]

16. Great! Here's a message for them: remorse will visit you in the night, just like the ghost of

christmas past. Doing the wrong thing is always a bad idea for your long-term sanity.

[wroberts189]

29. I think once you sell you soul ..you develop a sense of self-righteousness.

They care not the pleadings for common sense or to look at their own future and how its tied to our own. Or their own situation and how they would benefit.

And they would be the first in line for any lower cost plan.

Short term profits over long term survival.

[opihimoimoi]

21. The GOP: Are they EVIL?...YES and...Of Course the Health Care Industry is here

[wroberts189]

24. Thx .. it was meant as a public service message and a link to some important reading. nt

[The River]

27. They Are Not Posting

as much as just hitting the unrec button.

[wroberts189]

30. Good point.. I had to laugh ..thats actually quite funny. nt

[chill_wind]

33. !

lol! :-)

[Greyhound]

28. What amazes me is how many deny it.

Of course, we expect the obvious pros to deny any such thing, but the every-day schmucks that have managed to maintain their bubble of fantasy in spite of all they know, it's just mind-boggling.
:kick: & R

[wroberts189]

31. True , I think the good thing is there is enough of us here to expose and educate ...nt

[earth mom]

34. There is a SHITLOAD of paid propagandists and paid disinfo agents on DU.

And the unwreck feature suits them to a T. :puke:

[and-justice-for-all]

35. Moore was right and Health Insurance Companies are domestic terrorist..nt

[lib_wit_it]

38. Oh come now, terrorists can't be domestic--oh, unless they're libs.

[and-justice-for-all]

43. oops, my bad....

NOT. LOL

[galloglas]

36. Does a bear shit in the woods? n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. I don't know about here, but their shills are DEFINITELY posting

on the Minneapolis Star-Tribune's website. There's one in particular who tosses all sorts of statistics around.

[wroberts189]

48. I wish more could be done to expose such fraud. :( nt

[Lugnut]

40. People would believe Michael Moore?

How insulting! Countless people are actually living the horror stories that Moore brought to light in Sicko.

[femrap]

41. The Other Side(s)

are always posting here. Sitting at their little Heritage Foundation cubicles getting paid to do so.

[Kingofalldems]

42. We also have an anti-public option pro repub

posing as a Democrat who is also plying crap here.

[wroberts189]

44. Self kick as this Moyers's interview is a MUST SEE...link:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile.html


Click on the "watch video" link ....


Its astounding.

[pleah]

45. K&R I'll bet they do, too. n/t

[Merlot]

46. Thanks for posting this. I agree with you, and you can keep your marbles

Just because this board is called DEMOCRATIC underground does not mean that everyone who posts here is a democrat.

I just pay no mind to those that have obviously un democratic opinions.

I'm surprised that other dems on this board don't realize that at times they are being played and baited.

[wroberts189]

47. If I did not get baited and taken in myself so many times ..

Well ...I got my DU education slowly.

I wanted to draw attention to the Moyers's show but I also wanted to remind "newbies" about trolls and shills that are here so they know how to deal with DU a bit better and hang out longer.

While poking a little fun at people who easily dismiss conspiracy theories at the same time.

As one poster said ..and I wish I had put it in ..the industry is spending 1.4 million a day to fight "health reform" at the expense of the common good of us all. You know they got people working the blogs.. if not they are incompetent.

And as other posters said they are not the only ones here...


Thanks for your post/kick

[humanahumana]

49. GUARANTEED

helluva place to refine the talking points for free

[Kansas Wyatt]

50. Everyone needs to USE the Insurance Industry's own arguments against them.

Let them answer for the horror stories they claim about government health care, but are guilty of themselves.

Let them attempt to justify their DEATH MERCHANT profits, while they deny health care.

Let them justify America's ranking on health care, compared to the rest of the world.

If their way is so much better, make them explain why health care in the United States is a sick fucking joke.

If there are any DEATH MERCHANTS reading this... You are lower than fucking scum, and deserve to die a horrible death, before you roast in Hell you dirty fucking thieves. Soon, you will get what you have coming to you, and it's not a fat blood money bonus. Your reckoning is coming.

[backscatter712]

51. I'll bet you they're posting the despair-spreading posts.

At least some of them, anyways. You know what I'm talking about - the posts that wail and moan "OH, OUR SENATORS HAVE BEEN BOUGHT!!! THEY'RE KILLING PUBLIC OPTION!!! WE'RE GONNA GET CO-OPS AND TRIGGERS!!! WE'RE FUCKING SCREWED!!! THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO!!! DON'T BOTHER WITH POLITICS ANYMORE!!!"

They want us curled up in the fetal position rather than calling our Congresscritters and demanding real reform.

[Forkboy]

52. I'd bet your marbles too!

I'd bet my own but I lost them years ago.