ALL Americans Need to Feel the Sacrifice when we are at WAR

[Tx4obama]

Americans Need to Feel the Sacrifice when we are at WAR - in order to feel the urgency to end the war and to put the pressure on the government to do so.

I think it is a shame in some way that we are at war in Iraq and Afghanistan and the American people for the large part are going about their everyday lives as if nothing happening. I am not talking about the heartache that the families of the military personnel are dealing with each and everyday, I am talking about the everyday hardships that Americans felt during previous wars. When looking at the overall picture of what is going on it brings a sickening feel to my stomach as I think of the people that are out buying million dollar houses, shopping on Rodeo Drive, buying video games and cellphones for their children, spending the day at the spa and getting their fingernails done, etc.

During World War II
Just image... something as common, in our everyday lives. as butter, oil, meats, coffee, etc. Each person was allowed a certain amount of points weekly with expiration dates as to what they could purchase. "Blue Stamp" rationing covered canned, bottled, and frozen fruits and vegetables, plus juices and dry beans; and such processed foods as soups, baby food and catsup. In 1942, During WW2, Ration Stamps were issued to all Americans in order to obtains foods, gas, and clothing. And certificates were needed to purchase boots, to rent a typewriter, and to even buy a car.

More info here: http://www.alumnibhs.com/old%20geezer%20photos/ww2%20ration%20stamps.htm
And here:
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1674.html

I was born in the late 1950s and grew up with my grandparents, that were immigrants from Europe in the early 1900s, they had lived through wars and the depression, (in Illinois) and we had a roof over our heads, a vegetable garden in the backyard and several fruit trees. Money was never spent on frivolities as money is spent in most homes nowadays and at that time we were not at war. I can remember money being tight and I never even have a 'new' coat until I was in my 20s and bought one with my own money - I am only 50 years old so that time in history was not that long ago.

If we as a country are going to be at war then EVERYONE should sacrifice to our utmost ability financially and physically in order to obtain the objective AS SOON AS POSSIBLE and then rejoice in a victory – how war is being waged at the moment is just not right, in my opinion.

I am so upset at the moment I am sure that I have not said everything as eloquently as it should be said, but I hope that ya'll get the gist of what I am feeling.

[mitchum]

1. Isn't the deficit and the bloated military budget enough of a sacrifice already?

[Tx4obama]

3. mitchum - NO...

That does not hit the American people in the face every morning the moment that they wake up and know that they will have to stand in a long line for basic food and clothing. The deficit and military spending is going to affect people in the future -- not those that are blowing their money right now.

One thing that I forget to say in the main post was that I think it is disgraceful/outrageous when I see in videos and photos people standing in line at homeless shelters waiting for food and they are on THEIR CELLPHONES -- what the hell is up with that!! Something is terribly wrong with this picture.

Also, I no longer live in Illinois but I do have relatives that live up there and some of them are unemployed and on food stamps and they buy STEAK and other high end food items with taxpayer dollars and some of them SELL/EXCHANGE their allotment. THIS IS WRONG. The government knows this is going on and they are not doing anything to stop it.

[mitchum]

11. How dare they also have luxuries such as clothes while standing in line at the homeless shelter!

Shouldn't they be wearing barrels?
You do realize that a cellphone is MUCH cheaper than a month's rent...or a week's groceries, don't you?

[Tx4obama]

14. You must be kidding...

If you blow money on a cellphone while accepting free food I have no sympathy.
Having a cellphone is NOT a necessity such as a roof over your head or clothing.

[mitchum]

15. And just how are those shiftless homeless people are to be contacted for the jobs...

they are presumably looking for?
Smoke signals?
Log drums?
Billboards?

[Tx4obama]

20. Hahahaha...

Just like they were contacted before there was such a thing as cellphones.
Do you remember those days?
Or are you too young to know how people lived before the MSM brainwashed you into believing that people had to spend good money on wasteful technology?

[mitchum]

24. I'm not defending cellphones (don't have one), but I believe people were contacted by...

landline phones (either their own or the one at the corner store, etc)
Were those landline phones also wasteful technology?
What the fuck? Should we go back to the good ol' days and bring back polio in order to toughen up people? Buncha soft wimps.

[Tx4obama]

34. Other alternatives...

A person does not need to spend their last dollar on a cell phone in order to get a job.
They can be contacted:
1) Via a relative's phone
2) Via a friend's phone
3) Via an email that can be checked for free at the public library or on a friend's computer
4) The person calling back to the Human Resources Department of the company that the applied to.

A person that is homeless that shows up at a homeless shelter in line for free food should not be wasting money on paying for a cellphone!

[EFerrari]

48. What a piece of work. Do you also spy on your neighbors to make sure

they're not eating too much?

Who died and made you God?

[EFerrari]

46. I'll effing defend cell phones. When you have no place to get mail,

when you are waiting in ten different queues for basic services, having a cell phone can be the difference between eating or not, being indoors or not, getting medical care or not, staying in touch with your support people or becoming a statistic. Period.

[EFerrari]

40. Many cities disagree with you that homeless people should not

have cell phones to keep them in touch with critical services and GIVE OUT FREE PHONES.

[Tx4obama]

42. Okay, I'll bite...

Which CITIES give out free phone and free minutes to the homeless ???

[EFerrari]

43. Do you have the Google? We do here, for one. Edit: link

You don't travel much in the poverty world, apparently.

http://sfist.com/2008/02/28/sf_homeless_are.php

[Tx4obama]

44. Like I said ...

which cities in the USA give out free cellphones and free minutes to homeless people?
I have never seen any given out here in Houston, Texas and we have quite a few homeless folks living under bridges.
I know that south of Chicago no one is going around giving out free phones.
Yes, I have Google... but YOU should tell us where the free phones are.

[EFerrari]

45. Google, Verizon, other companies have given out free phones

and numbers and the city arranges for minutes that are distributed on cards. And I already gave you the link to our local program.

[Tx4obama]

49. The article link that you posted said....

and offer free phone numbers and voice mail accounts to homeless individuals
That has nothing to do with actual physical PHONES that people have in their hands that are seen in photos of people standing in food lines.
A person can call into a voice mail account from a payphone or a landline or a cellphone of a friend.

I think it is great the SF is offering voice mail to the homeless in order to pick up job offers, etc. but I stand by my original comment that homeless folks should not be spending MONEY on cellphones when they are taking FREE food from homeless shelters and food banks. CELL PHONES are a luxury that people should not have unless they have the extra money to blow on them!

[EFerrari]

50. As I already explained and as you can find for yourself,

Google, Verizon and other providers do giveaways.

And frankly, I think that your idea of what a luxury is for a homeless person is ridiculous. In fact, I'm going out in the morning and hand ten dollars to the first homeless person I see who will promise to blow it on drugs, alcohol or porn. :hi:

[Tx4obama]

55. Good luck to you...

a few years ago there was a guy at my corner gas station that I used to give money to every week and on the weekends I took a plate of food to ... one weekend I didn't take the food and he attacked me - the most foul words that I ever heard came out of his mouth and they weren't words that I had never said before myself but the viciousness of his words was unbelievable - I wish you all the luck in the world with your new project helping the homeless.

I feel sorry for you since you think you are the only/first person the the world that has cared enough/tried to do good works in this world.

CELL PHONES FOR THE HOMELESS ARE LUXURIES AND SOMETHING THAT IS UNNECESSARY.
The homeless need shelter, food, shampoo, water for bathing, employment, and clothes.

[EFerrari]

63. It's too bad that you had such a near brush with reality. n/t

[WorseBeforeBetter]

69. Yeah, I hear Pantene Pro-V serves as an excellent toothpaste.

One unfortunate experience with a homeless person, if indeed true, has turned you into Sean Hannity? Tsk.

[Lucky Luciano]

115. You are way off. The cell phone is crucial to a homeless person

trying to get a job. I have never been homeless, but I have been laid off - and I can assure you that I would not have gotten a job again were it not for the cell phone - I needed the phone for phone interviews and networking - or if a headhunter that had my resume wanted to give me a call - or if a hiring manager wanted to call me. They sometimes want to speak on short notice. Sometimes if you miss the call, you will get no other chance - especially in today's climate where they can easily just call the next guy on the list.

Cell phones are not luxuries - and if I were homeless, I would do all I could to keep my cell phone, including spending $30 less per month on food since the phone would be my investment to hopefully get back on my feet. Your other comments about relying on friend's phones and emails just don't cut it - hiring managers will just hire someone easy to contact.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

57. Ageist. I remember the pre-cell phone days...

and am thankful to now have the technology. And thankful that my 71-year-old widowed mother has the technology for when she's out on the road alone. I'm often alone on the road (at night) due to work and having the cell gives me tremendous peace of mind. If you consider that "wasteful technology," it's you with the problem, not everyone else.

[Deja Q]

113. Not a bad point about cell phones, but what made them homeless? What lost them their jobs?

And how, and why...

[scarletwoman]

2. These aren't wars, these are imperialist acts of agression.

And there will never be such a thing as a "victory" to "rejoice in".

I refuse to willingly sacrifice ANYTHING to further this militarist bullshit -- as a country we are already sacrificing our economic future while our tax money gets spent on bombs instead of schools, infrastructure, and universal health care.

sw

[Tx4obama]

5. But ...

until ALL Americans have to sacrifice something .. then the majority of the people won't stand up and ALL the voices won't be heard. That was my point.
Americans did not willingly sacrifice to the point that they were rationed. They were forced to do so. And because of that - the war finally came to an end.

As far as schools, infrastructure, can health care ... that is small potatoes compared to the lives of the miltary and civilians that are dying all over the world at the moment.

During the Viet Nam war no one that was over their fighting that war said "Hey, we should be spending money on schools instead of all of these bombs."

The issues of schools, health care, etc. is a distraction all the while people of the world are losing their lives each and everyday.

[mitchum]

13. WTF?

"The issues of schools, health care, etc. is a distraction all the while people of the world are losing their lives each and everyday"

It seems to me the rah rah jingoistic "we're gonna kick their asses" horseshit is far more effective distraction from the real and pressing issues of schools, health care, etc

[Elwood P Dowd]

18. Small Potatoes?

Two of my close friends have died because they did not have health insurance. 20,0000 American citizens die every year because they did not have health insurance. Hundreds of thousands of American citizens are forced into bankruptcy every year because of health care costs, and most of them have some form of health insurance.

A country that can't provide for the health of it's own citizens is a country that is bankrupt.

[Tx4obama]

19. But...

I do not have insurance at the moment, I am unemployed, I do not have a cellphone, and I am in need of surgery.
It is something I live with everyday but I do not compare it to the all of the people that have needlessly died in uncalled for wars or compare my life to the lives or the people that have died in a senseless war.
People that have had to file for bankruptcy are STILL ALIVE.
People need to put everything into perspective.

"If we do not learn from the mistakes of history, we are doomed to repeat them."

[Elwood P Dowd]

28. I too have lost my health care coverage

and have re-applied for VA coverage (I am a Vietnam-era draftee). The VA is swamped, and it might take some time I'm told. I have a cell phone and computer DSL service, but that's about it as for as luxuries are concerned. The thermostat is set at 85 in the summer and 55 in the winter. No more steaks, magazine subscriptions, ball games, visits to relatives, new clothing purchases, DVDs/CDs, or anything I can live without.

[Tx4obama]

37. And I feel for your circumstance...

I am going to guess that you do not pay for your DSL and cellphone and then go and stand in line for free food in at the homeless shelter. I truly believe that millions of other Americans have no idea what it is like to live day to day and give up luxuries while our service men are overseas giving up their lives and their families are sacrificing so very much. I pray that President Obama will keep his promise that he made during the campaign and do all he can for our veterans - I think he will.
I have been getting very upset at the pundits that have been basing him for not doing more in such a short period of time -- he has only been in office for less than SIX MONTHS. I believe that Barrack and Michelle really have their hearts into helping veterans and in the long run we will see improvements.

God bless America and God bless Our First Family ;)

[wantoutnow]

85. Hi

you spelled Barak wrong FRiend:hi:

[Tx4obama]

88. And so did you ...

It is spelled Barack Obama with a 'C'

[wantoutnow]

90. I was being facetious

and I spelled that wrong too.... :) do you know you can get a pre paid cell phone with no contract for less than 10 a month. But you knew that,didnt you. Tell us about our wonderful Capitalist system FRiend, and how all those evil homeless people who dare to have a phone deserve to suffer. Because they are weak. Why dont we just abolish food pantries too and imprison homeless people back like they did in Charles Dicken's days.

[Tx4obama]

96. wantoutnow

you're going a bit overboard now aren't you?
I do not know anyone that wants homeless people to suffer or anyone that wants to abolish food pantries or that wants to imprison homeless folks. I do know some folks that think that people that spend money on cell phones and then go to food pantries for free food isn't the right thing to do.
Btw, do you know how much rice, beans, and flour $10 can buy? I do because I have done that before in order to survive.

[wantoutnow]

100. hi

I know plenty of people who want homeless people to suffer and to imprison them. google homeless in the news section. Ever heard of debtors prison, or people who are in jail because they cant pay fines. 10 dollars for a cell phone is nothing. 10 dollars will buy a couple of bags of rice and a few cans of beans. Cant cook them though, because they are HOMELESS... many homeless people cant utilize pantries because they have no where to store food. They eat at soup kitchens. and 10 dollars for a pre-paid cell phone that can help them have at least a contact for a job? Perhaps FRiend, you may be happy posting at another website. Your argument is lacking.

[Tx4obama]

106. wantoutnow

NO -- you will not scare me away from this website. NO ONE WANTS HOMELESS PEOPLE TO BE IMPRISONED. Your comment is ridiculous!
I am a democrat and an Obama supporter and I have a right to be here just as much as anyone else.
I lived through the hurricane here in Texas last year and I we were able to live with no electricity and gas in this house for over three weeks and we lived on a big bag of rice, a big bag of dried beans and a big bag of flour for over three weeks which cost less than $10. As long as a person has a source of protein, carbohydrates, and water a person can survive. People do not need cell phones to survive. Cell phones are a LUXURY and not a NECESSITY.

There is a thing here in the USA called PUBLIC LIBRARIES that have FREE access to the web and email. People do not have to spend money on Cell Phones in order to get a job.

I do not know who you are but you have no right to tell me to go away to another website. I have been a contributor to the DU website for awhile now and many of my posts have been good ones here and have had tons of rec's before today.

Again- I must say that your comment about people wanting homeless people to suffer is OVER THE LINE. I AM HOMELESS so why on earth would I wish that on anyone? When a person is homeless $10 is a fortune and it should not be spent on a cell phone!

Tell me .. what do you know about sleeping in a car every night ? What do you know about taking a bath and washing your hair in a gas station bathroom? And washing your clothes by hand in the sink? What to you know about eating off of the $1 menu everyday for months without being able to eat fresh veggies and fruit? What do you know about worrying about being killed in your car as you sleep?

[Obamanaut]

116. Hi. You left out the apostrophe in several words. nt

[scarletwoman]

25. So, you think WE should all suffer more in hopes that we will then somehow be able to persuade

Ruling Class to set aside its addiction to power and militarism?

NO. The only suffering that will affect the warmongers is suffering inflicted on THEM. They don't give a damn what happens to any of us.

[Deja Q]

114. Michael Moore said that too.

Only when it hits home do people really get concerned.

[H2O Man]

121. But it has denied

American citizens the right to full service at the Legalize Lonnie Anderson's Hair drive-thru.

[Mind_your_head]

7. +1

(with the exception that I hope you meant to say, "single payer healthcare", rather than "universal health care" ~ BIG difference between THOSE two).

[scarletwoman]

22. Well, I distinguish between universal health CARE and universal health INSURANCE.

I was using the term "universal health care" as shorthand for government provided health care such as in France. But if using the term "single payer" makes the meaning clearer, I have no problem with that.

sw

[leftstreet]

4. Meh. I'm not sacrificing anything for Ruling Class Occupations

They can blow me

[dd20045]

6. we are not at war

the us army has become private forces for bushco and friends in an illegal activity that has netted him in the millions. i refuse to feel anything for illegal actions, torture, or anyone elses private adventures in the middle east.

[Tx4obama]

12. Vietnam was not a war but an occupation ....

but the bottom line is when our American men and women in the military are being killed it really is a 'war'.
ALL Americans need to have their voices heard in order to save the lives of our military.
They 'serve' they don't have a choice in what the government 'orders'.

dd20045 -
I feel sorry for you. Many of the enlisted that are in the military now joined because of 9/11. They thought they were joining a 'good' cause --- it is not their fault that they were misled by Bush and his cronies.

[dd20045]

17. new president, same problem

"I feel sorry for you. Many of the enlisted that are in the military now joined because of 9/11. They thought they were joining a 'good' cause --- it is not their fault that they were misled by Bush and his cronies." ....no need to feel sorry for me, feel bad for the troops.i served my time helping aids patients in africa instead of joining the army. no one cares that their dying. the way to feel this war is to prosecute the hell out of bushco, that is how i will feel this war.

[leftstreet]

21. People all over the world protested Iraq. Our overlords said Fuck You

[and-justice-for-all]

95. Yup, no one wanted that invasion(s) to happen and ...

shrub Co did exactly what it wanted too..

[JVS]

77. "ALL Americans need to have their voices heard in order to save the lives of our military."

Nobody listens anyway, it would be suicide to offer ourselves as sacrifice. They'd use us all like toilet paper. Fuck them.

[and-justice-for-all]

97. Vietnam was bullshit based on lies...

there was no need to go to Nam for any reason. My dad and uncles were there, my father called it complete bullshit nothing more than politics. The Gulf Of Tonken incident was a fucking lie.

Iraq/Afghanistan is exactly the same, Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11 and if they wanted to attack some one then they should have attached Saudi Arabia; since the majority of the people on those planes were in fact Saudi, not Iraqi.

But they should have never invaded Iraq or Afghanistan and they should not be there now.

[mitchum]

8. What leftstreet said

every bit of it

[scarletwoman]

23. Exactly! +1

[JVS]

68. Yeah. Seriously. Fuck them, and fuck their stupid fucking war and their stupid fucking system.

If they want my sacrifice they can lick my taint!

[conspirator]

122. Agreed. FUCK THE RICH and their stupid wars for profit. Let them send their own children nt

[Tx4obama]

9. Life IS MORE Important right now than the issues that the MSM is pushing....

U.S. MILITARY DEATHS (IRAQ): 4324
U.S. MILITARY WOUNDED (IRAQ): 31368
IRAQI CIVILIAN DEATHS: 151000
'EXCESS' IRAQI DEATHS: 655000

[omega minimo]

10. FUCK!

[tucsonlib]

16. You're Right. But, Then, There Is No Objective To Obtain

and there will be no victory to rejoice in.
And, of course, we're not even technically "at war". War must declared by Congress. Never happened.

And who is the enemy? Who is there to sign the articles of surrender? Bush declared that we're in a war against terrorism. Try finding the sovereign nation of Terrorism on a map of the world. How will we know when we've won? Why did we invade Iraq? To get rid of Hussein? To destroy their (non-existent) WMD. Done! So why haven't we declared victory and gotten the hell out?

The U.S. hasn't been at war since WWII - That was also the last time our nation faced an actual threat to its very existence.

9/11 was a horrendous crime committed by a small group of fanatics, and should have been treated as such. To say it was an act of war is nonsense.

I think the American people knew this, deep in their hearts. They knew that Bin Laden, or Hussein, or a bunch of suicide bombers posed no real threat to the nation.

[Tx4obama]

27. Yes...

I agree with much of what you have said...
but the fact remains that when we send our men and women off to war ALL AMERICANS must have a price to pay here at home because that is when ALL the voices will rise up and be heard to STOP it ASAP.
When each and every American has a price to pay it is THEN that they will speak up and it is THEN that the war will end sooner than later.

Everyone on this thread seems to have an issue with the word 'war' ... I have used the word 'war' in the context of sending our military 'in to battle' .. arguing over whether congress has declard 'war' or not is a non-issue. When people are DYING in a battle -- that is 'war' - plain and simple.

[tucsonlib]

58. I Understand Where You're Coming From

And you may have hit upon the very reason why Bush told everyone to just go shopping after 9/11. Maybe he knew that the population wouldn't be willing to do much sacrificing. So the only Americans paying the price at first were service personnel and their families. And they weren't really in much of a position to demand a quick end to the war. Although that is changing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2550328

Of course, every American wound up paying a huge price. We sacrificed most of our rights and freedoms under the Patriot Act. We lost the respect of the rest of the world. The trillions we've spent and continue to spend on this endless "war" has trashed our economy, left our infrastructure to rot away, cost millions of jobs and thousands of lives.

[Tx4obama]

99. tucsonlib

thank you for your words... seems like you are the only one that read my post and tried to see what I was trying to say.

[EFerrari]

26. All Americans except the very few most wealthy ones DO feel the sacrifice

of being in endless wars. We have no health care, we don't care for our veterans, our children go to underfunded schools, our elderly live in poverty, we arrest people for being homeless, the list goes on and on.

Don't talk to me about SACRIFICE. I've been paying for wars ever since I got my first work permit.

[dd20045]

29. are we in a recession

are we facing massive unemployment? then we all feel this "war"

[EFerrari]

30. Belated welcome to DU, dd20045.

Yeah, I think it's safe to say we all feel it.

[Tx4obama]

32. I disagree...

paying for a war is not feeling the effects of war.
If you have no food on the table because of rationing, if you have bombs falling on your house, if you have soldiers knocking down your front door in the middle of war... that is FEELING the effects of war.

I suggest that folks that have no idea of what war can do to the soul of a people watch some of the films that show the hell of war:

Schindler's List
Playing for Time
La Vita e` Bella
Two Women
Hamburger Hill
Apocalypse Now
The Diary of Anne
there are too many to name...

Anyone that thinks health care, under funded schools, homelessness, etc. is comparable to the effects of war is delusional.

[EFerrari]

33. One would have to be delusional not to know that the American people

are hostages to war already. Do you need to see blood or thin faces or bodies or ruined cities or arbitrary persecution? You don't get out much, do you?

[leftstreet]

35. The Democrats can't revive the anti-war movement. They blew it

Although I give you props for trying.

They positioned themselves as the anti-Bush War party to grab the majority during the midterms. Then they promptly funneled more $ to imperialist occupations.

They're still doing it. With a majority in both houses AND the Administration.

Sorry, but welcome to 2009 in America.
Healthcare and homelessness ARE more important now.

[EFerrari]

41. Our militarization and our abject neglect of our own people are inextricable. n/t

[scarletwoman]

36. There is NO FUCKING WAR! We are conducting illegal bloody occupations!

We are NOT engaged in some noble pursuit, our Rulers are conducting gigantic smash and grab operations using OUR blood and OUR treasure to enrich their defense contractor and oil company buddies.

If I were an Iraqi or an Afghani THEN I would gladly sacrifice all to assist the effort to fight off the foreign invaders. I would consider it to be the noblest of pursuits to free my country from U.S. occupation.

[Suich]

31. Dear Tx4Obama: When I read your OP, I had a bit of empathy for you.

However, you lost me when you spouted your bs about people with cell phones (how dare they!) and folks with food stamps buying "high end" food, like steaks! Horrors!

I was on food stamps for 6 months (single parent, two kids 3 and 4 years old) in 1968 and I remember people like you in the grocery store, checking out what I was buying.

A cell phone is a way for someone to keep in touch. That you resent the fact that homeless folks have one instead of getting a place to live just shows your ignorance.

It might be helpful if you volunteered at a homeless shelter, or soup kitchen.

btw, I was born in 1943.

Peace.

[Tx4obama]

39. I stand by what I said...

people do not need to waste money on cellphones in order to get a job when at the same time taking food from food banks.
People were able to obtain jobs before there were cellphones and they still can today.
As far as your suggestion that I volunteer at a homeless shelter or soup kitchen -- I have been homeless three times in my life - twice I lived in my CAR for long periods of time - I was able to obtain a job without the LUXURY of a cellphone.

[LooseWilly]

54. You do realize that phone booths no longer exist, right?

They were (nearly) all torn out because they were "being used by drug dealers"... so they were a threat. The stores that used to provide phones to the public, for a small fee, also no longer exist in the US (you can still find them in Mexico, for instance)... because no one uses them anymore, because people have cell phones. Libraries rarely provide public phones... and certainly not ones that one can receive a call at. I doubt that homeless shelters provide phones for their shelterees either. And, if you are homeless, you have no landline.

The notion that spending $25 on some prepaid minutes for a cell phone in order to be able to make important calls is some sort of huge luxury is absurd.

And as for taking food from food banks, have you ever been to a food bank? Go sometime... the food is all donated by nearby stores when it hits the "sell by date" generally. In other words... it's food that would be thrown away if it wasn't given away. The corporations of the country produce so much food that it is thrown away in heaps and piles. And I've waited in lines for that food even when I had a job... when the pay started to ebb. Has it occurred to you that not everyone in those food lines is "Homeless"? Maybe they are using the resource of the food banks so that they can use the money saved on food to afford rent... Or maybe the cell phones are provided by their workplace, but healthcare costs and an unscrupulous home loan have converged to make the person/family homeless despite having a job...

Maybe it's not the 1950s anymore. Maybe people are juggling far more difficulties and adapting with far more potential solutions than your lingering 1950s sensibilities seem to be willing to acknowledge/conceive of...

And maybe you should go and start giving your money to the people in those lines, if you want to feel the suffering of the volunteer army that has been dispatched to fight in Iraq to be sure that Iraqi oil is sold only for USD, and not Euros, and the soldiers dispatched to Afghanistan to guard Chinese contractors as they rebuild the country with US Govt $ in order to undermine the Taliban who'd never have been an issue if the US Govt had given 1/10th of the money to the Afghans after the USSR withdrew...

Or better yet... why don't you go wrestle the cell phones out of the hands of those in the food bank lines... and explain to them that they're not worthy to be "protected" by the US military, unlike the Chinese contractors in Afghanistan, because they have the audacity to still have a CELL PHONE while standing in line for stale bread.

[Tx4obama]

86. LooseWilly

Yes I have been to food banks.
In the good times I have donated and in the bad times I have been there to get food in order to survive.
But I can tell you that I was NEVER paying $30 - $40 a month for cell phone service while at the same time taking free food that was donated by people that were donating it to help people that didn't have any.
If someone has money to pay for cell phone service they should pay for their own food before taking it from the mouths of the people less fortunate than they are.

[omega minimo]

38. If you're 50 year old you were in the streets with us trying to STOP THE LYING WASTE OF GULF WAR 1&2

or this thread is meaningless.

We know the price we DO pay, we know the cost, no one has any right to judge us as OBLIVIOUS.

[bridgit]

47. Never going to happen in an America 2009 where money = monarchy

[Tx4obama]

51. To EFerrari

If you truly believe that people should not be criticized for buying a cell phone and then WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE ANY INCOME they pay for monthly service for phone service when they then stand in line at a food bank to receive free food then there is not reasoning with you.

In my opinion you must be very young and do not know how things here in America were before computers, cellphone, and video games.

You have a rude awakening coming to you in the future unless you hurry up and get a job in order to support the luxuries that you apparently think are your God given right.

[EFerrari]

53. I'm not very young. In fact, I'm a few years older than you are.

And thank goodness, I have known poverty enough to respect the people who live in it, a lesson that you apparently have not learned yet. Oh, and I'm an atheist, too!

[Tx4obama]

59. Apparently you have not learned to not judge people that you do not know. n/t

[EFerrari]

61. If you want to disrespect the poor, you're talking to the wrong person. n/t

[saltpoint]

83. In defense of EFerrari, who is among the most demonstrably

compassionate posters on this site, your OP was unclear in its scope and borders.

We understand that the Iraq War under Bush / Cheney / et al was wildly costly. And that that money belonged to the people who might have profited from its being spent on elemental needs and not the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

The citizens of Iraq suffered greatly as well. Many died. Many others were driven out altogether.

Bush talked about the threat of international terror but did not ask sacrifice of U.S. citizens. In fact he urged them to go out and shop after 9/11. In your OP you reference Rodeo Drive, but my guess is an overwhelming people on this site are not Rodeo Drive shoppers.

With respect to your circumstances, the original post would have made a very different thread if you had indicated up front that you were homeless. You deserve better circumstances and the world deserves more peace than either got under Bush.

[Tx4obama]

92. saltpoint

I do not think that I should have had to state that I was unemployed and homeless in order to state my opinion.
My opinion that I stated in my OP would have been the same if I lived in a mansion or in a cardboard box.
I am amazed though at the responses that I have read on this thread - and I am amazed particularly at the opinions that people seem to have that having a cell phone when 'homeless' seems to be a right that a person has even when they do not put up the money that is needed for them to eat. I think that there are too many people nowadays that do know know what the difference between a 'need' and a 'want' is. Time to have more folks back in school talking Psychology 101 ;)

[saltpoint]

93. Well I'm sorry, but I disagree that people are unable to make those

distinctions.

It seems to me that they are in fact able to make them.

They are also able to make a distinction between a world war and a war of choice. We are occupying Iraq, not defending American freedoms.

I see no greatness in the Iraq War and do see deceit and greed in its conception and conduct.

With respect, TX, your OP doesn't get there, and I think you're wrong on others' abilities for making those distinctions.

[masuki bance]

52. Brilliant! Obama proposing food rationing,

I can't believe Rahm hasn't already been pushing for this. The benefits are mind boggling.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Morning Dew]

60. You could start by sacrificing your internet connection.

:)

[Tx4obama]

64. Are you talking to me?

I do not pay for an internet connection.
I am basically homeless and living with friends.
I have no right to dictate what 'they' spend their money on.
I do not spend any money that comes my way on luxuries as a cell phone or on an internet connection.
I do pitch in for food that is put on our table and I do contribute by cooking, cleaning, and gardening.
If I were to spend money on a phone or any other luxury before contributing to the household first then I would feel great shame.

[EFerrari]

70. So, may I ask why this thread about sacrificing for war?

Most of us, like yourself, are already in an economic war.

[Tx4obama]

74. If...

you had taken the time to read and think about what I said in my original post instead of going on the offensive and bashing me up one side and the other then maybe you would have seen what I was trying to say.

[EFerrari]

78. You were pretty indirect and I have to say, you fooled me.

:)

I've been keeping everyone here together with mirrors for the last year, myself. I've a lot of experience in the homeless community here, some with my ex and none of my own. Yet.

Let's start over, shall we?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

76. The plot thickens... (n/t)

[Morning Dew]

80. So you are allowed to leech off your friends and use their internet connection

but the other homeless folks shouldn't have a cell phone to try to get a job.

Lucky effin you.

[Tx4obama]

82. How rude you are...

I would not say that I am leeching off of anyone.
Friends have given me a helping hand and I have in return helped them with several important issues such as caring for their elderly parents that had medical needs, I have contributed to the household with the abilities that I have. I am really amazed at the hatred toward a homeless person, that no one even knows, from the comments on this thread. I am actually shocked at the comments that have been given here.

Are you saying that when a friend helps a person in need - then that person is a leech?

How far it seems that the opinions of the general society have fallen - I will pray for YOU.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

84. Like clockwork -- the aggrieved post.

DUers do not "hate" homeless people, and we're not particularly fond of bullshit artists. Or at least this DUer is not.

[Morning Dew]

87. Does you shock include your own uncharitable comments toward the homeless

"that no one even knows".

Do you know their circumstances? Maybe that cell phone you see is a loaner from a friend or relative. You don't know but you judge, don't you?

The most hateful comments on this thread toward the homeless were yours.

[Tx4obama]

107. morning dew...

considering you have no compassion or UNDERSTANDING for what someone is trying to say .. please go back and crawl under the rock you crawled out from under.

[EFerrari]

89. TX, it's almost 3 am here in California and I'll be going to bed soon.

I'd like to apologize to you and pm you after 10 my time. Maybe we can do better.

[Cid_B]

62. Whats that line?

"The American military is at war... America is at the mall"

Also I'd add that all the "what about my pet issue" threads above this are pretty telling. Every issue is a reason to whine about your own pet project.

[saltpoint]

65. It seems to me when billions of bucks are spent on a war of choice,

which Bush's Iraq War certainly was, the sacrifice is apparent. That money could have been more profitably spent on things people need and don't have.

[EFerrari]

66. Do you have ten dollars I can borrow?

:rofl:

[saltpoint]

67. LOL. Sure. I'll just get a reimbursement from Mark Sanford's travel budget.

[EFerrari]

71. I have to tell you, I'm underemployed and generally a bad risk.

:)

[saltpoint]

73. Not a problem. As a tax-payer, all the big corrupt banks are among my

clients.

[EFerrari]

75. Whew! I KNOW I can do better than THAT.

:hi:

[saltpoint]

79. -- -- --

:hi: :hug:

[JVS]

72. K&U

[WorseBeforeBetter]

81. Explain what the "objective" is and what constitutes "victory." (n/t)

[earth mom]

91. How in the fuck can a thread like this have a negative zero?!

This thread is proof that the unwreck feature is pure and total bullshit!

Not too long ago-when * was in office-this thread would have had at least 100 recs.

Now because precious Obama is in office and is RESPONSIBLE for this country continuing to be at war, this thread has been nuked all to the hell by the unwreakers.

UN FUCKING BELIEVABLE! :grr:

WHO THE FUCK ARE THESE PEOPLE?! :wtf:

[EFerrari]

94. Hang on:

O Star (the fairest one in sight),
We grant your loftiness the right
To some obscurity of cloud --
It will not do to say of night,
Since dark is what brings out your light.
Some mystery becomes the proud.
But to be wholly taciturn
In your reserve is not allowed.

Say something to us we can learn
By heart and when alone repeat.
Say something! And it says "I burn."
But say with what degree of heat.
Talk Fahrenheit, talk Centigrade.
Use language we can comprehend.
Tell us what elements you blend.

It gives us strangely little aid,
But does tell something in the end.
And steadfast as Keats' Eremite,
Not even stooping from its sphere,
It asks a little of us here.
It asks of us a certain height,
So when at times the mob is swayed
To carry praise or blame too far,
We may choose something like a star
To stay our minds on and be staid.

Frost, 47

[Tx4obama]

101. earth mom

I honestly do not know what happened here.
I was trying to post a comment that would help people to see how wars in the past were ended because ALL Americans were affected by the wars and then had a voice and reason to speak up ... and instead people attacked me for saying that 'we shouldn't be negative about people in the food lines that pay for cell phones instead of paying for their own food' -- I am stunned !
All of a sudden I feel like I am on Mars instead of on planet earth!

And as for the negative rating on my post I very sad - it is the first time that it has happened to me ;(

[earth mom]

104. After what I've seen around here this week, I'm convinced DU has gone over to the dark side.

:yoiks:

Sorry about your thread. :(

[Tx4obama]

108. delete

deleted by me ;)

[Egnever]

102. If I had to guess

I would say its the responses that brought on the unrec's. The OP's lack of empathy for people that are sufering was fairly unatractive.

And WTF with the precious Obama BS?

[earth mom]

105. Obama is not allowed to be criticized. Check GD-P if you don't believe me. nt

[JVS]

118. Because it calls for sacrifice to Baal.

[saltpoint]

98. From its onset the Iraq War was a designed war, a boutique war of the

Bush/Cheney Axis of Evil and their attendant affiliates.

Greed and deceit were primary ingredients.

It was engineered from the git-go so as not to disrupt U.S. materialism back home. No shortage of this, no shortage of that, just a volunteer army & Blackwater-personneled exercise in which we attacked a sovereign nation which had not provoked a military response. Nine-eleven occurred; 9/11 was horrifying; we're attacking Saddam Hussein because you citizens fear terrorist horror and death. That was the fear-based construction of Bush/Cheney's rationale.

Your OP likens war-time sacrifice in WWII with current engagements in Iraq and Afghanistan. No sale.

[Turbineguy]

103. You've hit upon

what is probably the biggest fake of the Bush Administration. Life at home goes on as if nothing is happening.

[Thothmes]

123. Just like it did during the Johnson

years of Vietnam

[MadHound]

109. First off, we are suffering for the war

Our economy is being trashed by these illegal, immoral wars, or haven't you looked around lately. Ten trillion in debt and climbing everyday. No money for domestic programs that would truly benefit the people of America, like single payer UHC.

Secondly, define what the objectives of these wars and what, exactly, would victory look like. And please, don't give me that bullshit about defeating terrorism, I'll slap that back in your face so fast it will make your head spin.

[Tx4obama]

111. First off...

Do you have food on the table for breakfast, lunch, and dinner?
Do you have gasoline in your car in order to get to work?
Do you have tires on your car?
Do you have lights on in your house?
Have your had to take 'tin, steel, metal' down to the recycle for the war effort?
Have you had to stand in line for goods that have been rationed?
The wars/occupations that we are in now ARE NOT affecting the 'general population' like the wars in our past history.

A numerical graph on the TV of the national debt is NOT the same as no food on the table!

[Tx4obama]

110. I am really stunned....

Like I responded to earth mom earlier when I said:

I honestly do not know what happened here.
I was trying to post a comment that would help people to see how wars in the past were ended because ALL Americans were affected by the wars and then had a voice and reason to speak up ... and instead people attacked me for saying that 'we shouldn't be negative about people in the food lines that pay for cell phones instead of paying for their own food' -- I am stunned !
All of a sudden I feel like I am on Mars instead of on planet EARTH!

And as for the negative rating on my post I very sad - it is the first time that it has happened to me ;(

I have posted here many many many times in the past and people read my posts with an OPEN MIND.

But if tonight is a true example of how DU has changed then perhaps I will not come around here too much -- I will still peek in to see what is going on but as far as a community that is supposed to be friendly to democrats -- I will not as open for discussion as in the past. Good luck to ya'll and PEACE be with you.

Obama 2012

[Fumesucker]

112. Eh, I'm not surprised..

I've seen this issue come up in various forms multiple times here on DU.. I recall when gas prices dropped precipitately after the last run-up I posted that it was time to institute a higher gas tax to help keep people focused on cutting their energy usage (as well as giving the government more revenue), the idea was very polarizing, there were some who thought it was good and considerably more who thought it was bad.

It's a matter of perspective, as are so many things in life, theoretically yours is a good idea, in practice I'm not sure it would make any difference these days.

You should have avoided the homeless cell phone issue altogether, it's a polarizing distraction, I'm fifty nine and if it weren't for family I'd be on the street, there is no public transport in my area and no pay phones, I can't think of any way that a homeless person could make contacts for work in the reality of this day and age.

The way services are spread out in my county, a homeless person without a car could easily spend all day walking and still never get everything they need to do accomplished.

[mitchum]

120. Translation: Not open to discussion = Does not agree with my horseshit

And has DU really changed so much since February 2009? Oh, those pesky profiles...

[L0oniX]

117. All Americans are guilty of the murder of all the innocent people killed in its wars.

[Vidar]

119. What we need to sacrifice are all the politicians that support this shit.