Regarding Dick Cheney

[H2O Man]

The "news" about VP Dick Cheney’s role in having the CIA lie to Congress comes as no surprise to any DUer who has participated in the numerous discussions of the Plame and the neocon/AIPAC espionage scandals. Throughout the years that those topics were focused upon, DU provided us with information about Cheney’s installation of the "shadow government" on the afternoon of September 11, 2001.

This "shadow government" was a mutated version of the "continuity of government" plans that were drawn up in the 1950s, in case of a nuclear war with the USSR. During the Reagan administration, VP Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, and Col. Oliver North "updated" the plans. During the Clinton years, the COG plans were put on ice, as the threat of nuclear war with the former Soviet Union was no longer a reality. However, on that fateful day in 2001, the Bush-Cheney administration had their version firmly in place.

The "shadow government" was something that very few citizens knew about, in large part because it was almost totally unmentioned in the corporate media. The Washington Post had an article that referenced it in March of 2002, and that was, in fact, the only way that the members of Congress found out that they had been placed in the margin, along with the Constitution and US Supreme Court.

Two books from that period provided people with valuable information on the new form of government that was ruling our country: Senator Robert Byrd’s "Losing America," and James Bamford’s "A Pretext for War." The "shadow government" included select members of the executive branch and corporate world. Even when this information was provided to them, the news media and members of Congress – with but few exceptions – failed to discuss it, much less contest the idea that Dick Cheney & Co. had the authority to vacate Constitutional rule and replace it with executive-corporate rule.

Without question, all of the most significant high crimes and misdemeanors committed by the Bush-Cheney administration were firmly rooted in the context of an all-powerful executive branch that did not believe that the other two branches of the federal government had the authority that the Constitution demands. Not a single member of these two branches were included in the "shadow government." But the corporate "leaders" were. That is the definition of one form of government, but it surely is not a democracy or a republic.

Senator Byrd wrote that it was unclear how long this "shadow government" would remain in place. Some people might think that the 2006 and the 2008 elections resolved the issue, I’m not one of those people. Rather, I believe that it can only be resolved – and our Constitutional democracy restored – by having both the Congress and the current Department of Justice uphold the rule of law, and hold those responsible for the many high crimes and misdemeanors fully responsible. The failure to do so would not only violate the oath of office, but can only be interpreted as cooperation with the forces of that shadow government.

[babylonsister]

1. I just can't imagine the shadow government, composed of those

freaks who ruled the executive branch for the past 8 years, won't be investigated now. I don't think there's a rug big enough to sweep all this stuff under.

[H2O Man]

2. I hope that

there is a real investigation. But I have serious doubts that there will be. There are remarkably few members of the House and Senate who could be considered for "Profiles In Courage II."

[babylonsister]

3. I'm ever optimistic. Maybe their outrage meter will trip out and

they'll feel compelled to take action.

:hi:

[CanonRay]

5. I have zero faith in either Reid or Pelosi to get to the bottom of this.

[bobthedrummer]

18. Remarkably few indeed-even fewer that can get beyond partisan power struggles

A few that are worth mentioning are Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA), Rep. Hank Johnson (D-GA), Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-CA), Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY), Sen. Patrick Leahy, Sen. Russell Feingold, and another Wisconsin official, Rep. Tammy Baldwin, who introduced an act that can be used effectively to bring some justice to CHENEY et al-The Executive Branch Accountability Act of 2008.

There was an opinion piece about Baldwin's Executive Branch Accountability Act of 2008 published the day after the general election in Madison's The Capital Times, the link is below.

"John Nichols: Baldwin has a plan to renew the Constitution" by John Nichols (11-4-08 The Capital Times)
http://www.madison.com/tct/mad/opinion/312799

We, the people have to pressure for action with those remarkable few...

[pleah]

95. I agree, WE have to make it happen.

There are to many of our elected officials that are swayed by the almighty dollar to be trusted to do the right thing. They have to be made to do it.

[Me.]

21. I Heard A Conversation Regarding This

And the problem for those scairdy cats in Congress is they know it all leads to the oval office and they get queasy about facing that issue. Would require real strength and honor on their part. Especially as the current occupant of that office has always viewed holding * and the Dick accountable as politicizing the the presidency.

[defendandprotect]

102. Our current members of Congress are being BRIBED not to care that they are marginalized . ..

[Serial Mom]

126. bribed by the corporations, that control lobbyists, that control re-election!

We must have campaign reform! Not just little laws but sweeping change! The "respresentatives" don't represent us anymore and haven't for a long time! We need to change that they don't work to only get re-elected or that they don't work for corporations that fund their campaigns, or that they don't work to see what gets in their pockets!

[defendandprotect]

136. Absolutely . . .!!

[tomp]

115. or the white house apparently. nt

[Patsy Stone]

8. I agree.

I could see why Obama wouldn't want to jump into this with both feet eight o'clock, January 21st, but as time goes on, there will be no choice left but to bring this to light and begin to pursue justice.

On the other hand, I agree with H20 Man's post below that there aren't too many people in Congress right now who would be gutsy enough to start the ball rolling.

At this point, I can only hope it will be prosecuted, but it's looking a little bit more probable every day that passes, and with every rock that is turned over.

:hi:

[tekisui]

4. Where is the legality for the VP to give orders to the CIA?

Is that at all legal?

Further, what other people or organizations answered to cheney?

If it was not the proper chain of command, who is to say he isn't still giving orders?

[H2O Man]

28. Valid point.

Bush, of course, handed the reins to Cheney on that September day. Imagine ANY other president being such a coward!

And think of how many people have suffered and died because of Cheney & Co. There has to be consequences for this. The only question is if those consequences will be an attempt to uphold the rule of law, or if it will be the death of the Constitution. It can only be one of those two.

[Octafish]

34. Remember that CONVEEENIENT Fire in Cheney's office?

It was right around the time some CIA torture memos were dots leading back to the Eisenhower Executive Office Building.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/19/cheney-office-fire_n_77484.html

Must've been flaming hot what got burned up in Cheney's man-size filing cabinets.

[H2O Man]

36. Right.

Very good point.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

128. Uh huh.

[AlbertCat]

94. Bush, of course, handed the reins to Cheney on that September day.

Bush, of course, handed the reins to Cheney on that January day.

Maybe before...when he asked Cheney to search of a good VP candidate....and the Dick chose himself.

[Octafish]

32. Explains why Cheney claimed the Office of Vice President wasn't part of the Executive Branch

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/21/cheney-records/

[H2O Man]

37. Yes, exactly.

He believed that there was absolutely no oversight of the OVP. And, he was right. Those with the sworn duty to put a stop to him failed to lift a finger (with very few exceptions). They failed the country. They lacked the spine needed to do their job.

[Enthusiast]

61. It was almost as if they suffered from

Stockholm Syndrome or some related malady. There is/was something going on here we don't know about. Possibly blackmail. Remember, the Bush Administration had access to all communications of every single congressman.

[Hutzpa]

82. I wouldn't say that exactly H20

don't forget Cheney has the "Executive Assassins" at his will, working for him and reporting to him
alone, also, after 9/11 most members started receiving anthrax through their mail, which
got some members shaking in their pants asking whose next.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks

[Joe Chi Minh]

51. Isn't Bush senior still briefed daily by the CIA?

[H2O Man]

52. Yes, he is.

All ex-presidents have that option. Bush was unique in using it to further his own business interests. (Though Gerald Ford is correctly remembered for being the first to prostitute his status after leaving office, Bush the Elder has done so to forward a specific global agenda. Ford merely looked to line his pockets.)

[Joe Chi Minh]

56. Thanks for the info. I can't help laughing at the strange kind of corrupt innocence of Ford!

Compared to him, Bush Senior evidently did have "the vision thing"! Albeit, louche and self-serving in the short-term way of the wordly-wise.

I think he's now reaping what he's been sowing with the legacy of a certain son of his. I doubt if he could have imagined his dynasty developing along those lines.

[defendandprotect]

103. Bush put Cheney in charge of EVERYTHING shortly before 9/11 . ..

[RaleighNCDUer]

134. That is exactly what bothers me - if his authority was illegitimate to begin with,

then there is no legitimate end to his authority. The only way to end his influence with the CIA is to purge those who abetted him in his power grab, those who were installed by the previous purge of CIA people who argued against invading Iraq. He had no authority to command them, and they gave him everything he wanted - I have little doubt that he doesn't still command them with the same lack of authority.

[defendandprotect]

137. Where does it say in the Constitution that the Supreme Court decides elections?

[mod mom]

6. This Scott Horton piece sums up their disrespect for the law:

This administration did more than commit crimes. It waged war against the law itself. It transformed the Justice Department into a vehicle for voter suppression, and it also summarily dismissed the U.S. attorneys who attempted to investigate its wrongdoing. It issued wartime contracts to substandard vendors with inside connections, and it also defunded efforts to police their performance. It spied on church groups and political protesters, and it also introduced a sweeping surveillance program that was so clearly illegal that virtually the entire senior echelon of the Justice Department threatened to (but did not in fact) tender their resignations over it. It waged an illegal and disastrous war, and it did so by falsely representing to Congress and to the American public nearly every piece of intelligence it had on Iraq. And through it all, as if to underscore its contempt for any authority but its own, the administration issued more than a hundred carefully crafted "signing statements" that raised pervasive doubt about whether the president would even accede to bills that he himself had signed into law.

No prior administration has been so systematically or so brazenly lawless. Yet it is no simple matter to prosecute a former president or his senior officers. There is no precedent for such a prosecution, and even if there was, the very breadth and audacity of the administration's activities would make the process so complex as to defy systems of justice far less fragmented than our own. But that only means choices must be made. Indeed, in weighing the enormity of the administration's transgressions against the realistic prospect of justice, it is possible to determine not only the crime that calls most clearly for prosecution but also the crime that is most likely to be successfully prosecuted. In both cases, that crime is torture.

There can be no doubt that torture is illegal. There is no wartime exception for torture, nor is there an exception for prisoners or "enemy combatants," nor is there an exception for "enhanced" methods. The authors of the Constitution forbade "cruel and unusual punishment," the details of that prohibition were made explicit in the Geneva Conventions ("No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever"), and that definition has in turn become subject to U.S. enforcement through the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the U.S. Criminal Code, and several acts of Congress.1

1. In addition to being illegal, torture is profoundly un-American. The central premise of the American experiment is the belief, informed by Enlightenment principles, that the dignity and worth of the individual is at least as important as that of the state. This belief weighed heavily on the minds of the Founders. The new American military was to be a force of yeoman soldiers, citizens in peacetime who were to be regarded as no less than citizens in wartime. Enemy soldiers likewise were to be treated with respect. George Washington, in the winter of 1776, sent a written order to officers overseeing prisoners: "Treat them with humanity." And in 1863, at another time of crisis, Abraham Lincoln included the prohibition of torture in the first American codification of the laws of war, which he also issued as a direct order to his field commanders. By way of such American leadership, the prohibition on torture was gradually absorbed into international law.

-snip
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/12/0082303

IT'S PAST TIME TO PROSECUTE!

[lordsummerisle]

10. Thanks for that link n/t

[ucfacde]

24. The World is Watching

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfYov5o5_2s

[the blues]

69. ty for the phenomenal youtube link...

...I'll save anyone else who goes there the trouble: just watch the video; don't read the comments... many, many morans.

[truth2power]

129. Per the video..If the "recruitment tool theory" , as Cheney describes it,

is false, then why not show the pictures? Hmmm?

Cheney, that execrable waste of oxygen, can't have it both ways. HE is a war criminal. He should be incarcerated for the rest of his life.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

33. PUT THEM IN JAIL

[Enthusiast]

57. Scott Horton has it nailed.

Scott says "1. In addition to being illegal, torture is profoundly un-American."

I will add that this has not been the 'America as we knew it' from the moment George W Bush was appointed to office after the 2,000 election. Abuses started even before 9/11. 9/11 was a convenient excuse to ramp it up, too convenient.

[defendandprotect]

106. Nixon administration was pretty much the same . . . illegal war/bombing ...

bribing the head of the FBI with a Supreme Court position --

No difference between Nixon "Huston Plan" and "Northwoods Operation" . . .

Nixon wanted to bomb the Brookings Institute in order to secure some documents --

Nixon arranged for secret slush funds -- over and beyond his original slush fund payments
which came from Prescott Bushco.

Nixon was wiretapping a long list of "enemies" -- including wiretapping Kissinger, etc.

That's why we had the FISA law to begin with . . . but the law itself is a violation of our
Constitution.

Nixon's 2000 happened in '68 when he contrived to STOP the peace talks from going forward
LBJ had provided that opportunity by stopping the bombing.
This is the same as Reagan's "October Surprise."

Nixon was also one of the many involved in the JFK assassination -- and I would suggest to
you that after that assassination they weren't going to take any chance of having things
set aright by elections. See: Votescam/The Stealing of America
http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

And remember that while the assassination couldn't have taken place without the coverup
being protected by LBJ - neither could either stolen elections or assassination have gone
forward without being sure they could control the press. At that point, it was probably
control and intimidation/CIA journalists, but top CEO's certainly were involved.
Now we have an absolute corporate press.
And, Gordon Liddy and Howard Hunt were the in-house assassins - ready to go.

This is also an excerpt from my post re Watergate never having ended . . .

defendandprotect

In one of the documents, written by Dean Aug. 16, 1971, intended to accompany the undated master list of opponents, Dean suggested ways in which "we can use the available federal machinery to screw our political enemies." Methods proposed included Administration manipulation of "grant availability, federal contracts, litigation, prosecution, etc."*

The computers also began to come in -- the large ones first used by media in mid-1960's and
the individual electronic voting machines in the late 1960's -- about the time we were
passing the Voting Rights Act.

You're correct, however, Nixon was never prosecuted contrary to public opinion, but thanks
to fellow Nazi Rep. Gerald Ford -- our first unelected VP and unelected President - Nixon
was pardoned.

The Pheonix Program of TORTURE also ran under Nixon. Wm. Colby ran it, but certainly
the notorious Edward G. Landsdale participated and perhaps designed the program.

No prior administration has been so systematically or so brazenly lawless. Yet it is no simple matter to prosecute a former president or his senior officers. There is no precedent for such a prosecution, and even if there was, the very breadth and audacity of the administration's activities would make the process so complex as to defy systems of justice far less fragmented than our own. But that only means choices must be made. Indeed, in weighing the enormity of the administration's transgressions against the realistic prospect of justice, it is possible to determine not only the crime that calls most clearly for prosecution but also the crime that is most likely to be successfully prosecuted. In both cases, that crime is torture.


You might also be interested in this . . .

From Judiciary In '74-"If The President Be Connected In Any Suspicious Manner With Any Person..."
Posted by kpete
The following is from a report written and released by the Judiciary Committee in 1974 in the aftermath of the Watergate crisis.


In the (Constitutional) convention George Mason argued that the President might use his pardoning power to "pardon crimes which were advised by himself" or, before indictment or conviction, "to stop inquiry and prevent detection." James Madison responded:

If the President be connected, in any suspicious manner, with any person, and there be grounds to believe he will shelter him, the House of Representatives can impeach him; they can remove him if found guilty...

.....................

Madison went on to say contrary to his position in the Philadelphia convention, that the President could be suspended when suspected, and his powers would devolve on the Vice President, who could likewise be suspended until impeached and convicted, if he were also suspected.

[KoKo]

7. Thank you for this. You are the only one I've seen discussing this possibility

on the Dem Blogs.

K&R!

[H2O Man]

12. You know, when you

think about the implications of what you wrote -- really, really think about what it means -- it is so wrong (NOT your post1). Because while I consider myself to be one of a core group of DUers who have been making this exact point for years now, the sad truth is that there been more information on DU than on most "liberal" web sites and the media combined. Yet DU is generally considered "too far to the left" for most democrats (unless they venture here looking for votes or contributions).

[TahitiNut]

30. Yup.

But it's rarely mentioned in discussions of Michael Jackson, Sarah Palin, unrecommend, child abuse, or any other topic that requires absolutely no research, intelligence, or in-depth thought to climb up on the holier-than-thou soapbox and hold forth with one's own sermon from the mount.

:shrug:

[BlancheSplanchnik]

124. I admit I'm one of those people....

How many others are like me? I hate to see myself fit into that category, but... I guess someone has to speak up for those of us who profoundly respect facts, good research and ethics but have little or no background in the intricacies and can only keep up with so much info -- yet want to have a place to express our opinions too....

I only have so much time to keep up with the important information---and much of it feels like trying to catch up with an avalanche that started way before I started paying attention (fragmented though my attention capabilities are).....

It's easier to turn the info-collection/sifting faculties off for a bit and hold forth on easier topics-- one can't surf DU quietly all the time.

I so appreciate those who are more up to speed, have broader and deeper education than I do, for sharing that info. I read as much as I can, but rarely feel qualified to add much to the discussion, other than my appreciation and support....

I guess in the end, all I can do is know for myself what is true (or be willing to seek it out), hold on to my love of integrity, do whatever small actions I can and hope that its effect ripples out beyond my small sphere of influence. I think that love of integrity is mirrored by many here--that's encouraging. It's been hard to know these things before anyone else did, as we all know.

and as babylonsister said way upthread, I can only hope and trust that the weight of the ongoing revelations brings about investigation and action. And I believe that walking slowly and carefully through the minefield is the right way to approach the situation, rather than loudly proclaiming and galloping around in knight's armor.

[annabanana]

89. And yet we matter...

We see our research and information show up in corpomedia years after we've seen it here..And many things are accepted as fact now (even without a thorough airing on the 6 O'Clock News) that we've seen hear first.

[H2O Man]

113. Definitely.

Two related things come to mind: First, that relatively often, the insights from DU analysis often appear in the mainstream media a year or more after one reads it here; and second, I can say without any chance of being wrong that some of the people within the mainstream media -- including the talking heads and those who prepare their scripts -- read parts of DU. Maybe not every day, and certainly not the nonsense that serves no good purpose. But they come here.

[Overseas]

9. K&R !!

Still hoping for prosecutions.

We let lots of Iran-Contra crimes go unpunished and many of the key figures re-emerged in the Bush Cheeneey Gang.

I hope we don't let that happen again. Let the criminals lay low until the Right figures out how to engineer their next "victory."

[Octafish]

11. We the People have been played for SAPs for too long.

Special Access Programs may be Cheney's secret CIA "overseas" assassination bureau. Ha. Remember, these are the fellahs who Congress gave the power to declare even loyal American citizens who just happened to disagree with their run-up to phony wars to be classified as "Enemy Combatants." After that, it became eeeeasy to get rid of "problems."

From the Great Wall Street Bailout to a National Security State based on warmongering, the American people have been played for mopes by the secret government -- and the ultra high-networth individuals and corporations for which it toils.

Know your BFEE: The Secret Government

The only way we'll bring Them to justice is for We the People to rise up and back those remaining, brave few elected representatives who are able to do something about it -- including President Obama. Thanks for standing up to Them, H20 Man.

[Jackpine Radical]

14. You raise an interesting thought.

How do we even know how many "enemy combatants" have been plucked (one way or another) right from the midst of American society? Surely the CIA knows how to make a death look like it's due to accident, "natural causes" (or maybe "suicide")? William Casey, Lori Klausuto, Paul Wellstone; Hatfield; Baxter; Kangas...how many more? How many relatively inconsequential antiwar protest leaders died in their sleep after a visit from a dark angel?

[Me.]

23. Heard On One Of The Morning Shows

That it has been determined that the 'enemy combatants' fall into two categories. Those who should be let go, and those that should be given a trial. That nebulous group of those deemed to dangerous to stand trial much less let go no longer seems to exist.

[kohodog]

85. Don't forget the "disappeared"

That is the group of which you speak. No need to give them a trial or let them go. Just disappear them.

I never thought I'd see the day when the US has policies worse than any banana republic.

Justice would see Cheney get the same sentence as Bernard Madoff.

[Octafish]

39. If they were BUGGING people BEFORE 9-11...

...perhaps they were KILLING people BEFORE the USA PATRIOT Act gave them the "power" in the form of another twisted legal rationale from John Yoo.

The death of the artist Mark Lombardi, to me, is one example of a convenient death before 9-11.



In his art, Lombardi chronicled the story of the Bush - bin-Laden connection. He was found, hanged, in his studio in March, 2000. After 9-11, FBI agents went to a gallery exhibiting his work and took photographs.

As beautiful works of art and as fascinatingly detailed social network diagrams, Lombardi's work made it much easier to look at global conspiracies in action.

[AlbertCat]

97. Mark Lombardi is totally cool!

Thanks for posting.

[Ichingcarpenter]

17. The Rev. Moon, C-Street, Cheney, Bush Crime Family....there are

a small powerful group that really control this nation and whose interests and influence
are like tentacles of an octopus around the neck of democracy and human rights.

Don't even get me started on the banking system.

More people are paying attention but its taken years
for the truthseekers and truth tellers to get the attention of the masses
and finally get most of their research and investigative vindicated.


Its not a pretty picture but it is real.




I await the disinformation agents to appear

[Octafish]

40. One brave soul pegged Them cold.

Check out what one real journalist -- a frequent target of disinformation agents -- has reported on these fascist turds from way back:

EXPOSÉ: THE “CHRISTIAN” MAFIA.

[Jackpine Radical]

43. OMFG--Check out Wikipedia too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_(Christian_political_organization)


There are linkages to groups I would never, NEVER have imagined to be connected. IONS? Findhorn? I think I just went down the bobsled chute & got dumped on my head.

[arcadian]

84. The wiki information about The Family is wrong.

The Cedars is a gigantic compound in Arlington, Va on a bluff overlooking the Potomac, directly off of Spout Run Parkway. It is not the same as the C Street house.

[arcadian]

91. Here is the Fellowship Foundation's "The Cedars" compound in Arlington, Va

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=qgh7gm8k8hb7&style=b&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&scene=24017833&encType=1

[mod mom]

92. Wow the "family" goes back w ties to the coup against FDR !

We need to keep threads on this in the spotlight until every DUer is aware of just what these individuals are suuporting as a group. These Dems have some 'splaining to do!

Octafish, please tell me Obama is NOT connected. I have read anything to suggest he was except for his turn to the right upon being elected. I do recall he wasn't connected to any church until he decided it would be politically advantageous to join the Black church in Chicago.

[H2O Man]

112. They are the

elite's version of the Spahn Ranch family .... in my opinion, anyhow.

[Octafish]

123. Colonia Dignidad Reichs a Bell

They've got a nice kampf going in Patagonia...

Nazi who led cult like a god is jailed for child sex abuse.

[Octafish]

120. Michael Medved -- ''Obama's Un-Nourishing Prayer Breakfast''

Ad on Medved's Townhall website.

Hi, mod mom! If bootlicker to power Michael Medved doesn't like Obama's understanding of the National Prayer Breakfast new world pecking order, then it's a good thing.

[mod mom]

141. so glad to hear this.

:hi: Thank you. That is what I was hoping you'd say.

[Enthusiast]

62. I await the disinformation agents to appear

They're here.

[Old and In the Way]

13. It's like deja vu all over again.

Bill Clinton didn't want to "go there", either. He wanted to put the crimes and misdemeanors of the previous administration behind him. A lot of good that did him....and us. If rogue, anti-constitutional Executive Branch officers are not held accountable for their crimes, we lay the groundwork for future wannabe despots/dictators to do worse...and use the precedents created earlier by not prosecuting as reasons to justify their actions. It's not about Obama and his desires to avoid partisan political distractions...it's about the crimes that were committed. And if we don't hold them accountable for the abuse of their Office, we are setting up future generations for the same or worse. We know that Obama/Biden have respect for the Office they serve- what we don't know is how future officeholders will interpret their powers.

A month ago, I had pretty much given up hope that this administration would do anything on this subject. And I doubt that he'd "go there" if it could be at all avoided. Now, though, the real damage and record of Bush/Cheney seems to be percolating up and out of the memory hole by leaks that are too numerous to plug. These revelations on torture, assassination teams, and unregulated domestic surveillance are approaching a critical mass. It's becoming more apparent that Obama can no longer disregard the systematic crimes without becoming part of the cover-up. Holder's movement towards a special prosecutor is the first step towards seeing Justice served and once this step is taken, the momentum will quickly become too strong to stop.

[Jackpine Radical]

15. Elsewhere Rocktivity has a post about Obama's "Rope-a-Dope" strategy,

setting things up so that Congress (& maybe Holder?) has little choice but to pursue inquiries.

[Octafish]

31. Like where you're going with this...

Holder's movement towards a special prosecutor is the first step towards seeing Justice served and once this step is taken, the momentum will quickly become too strong to stop.

Obama follows the Tao: action without action.

In order to avoid cries of "Party Politics!," Obama really has to be above the fray and make no moves from the Oval Office. He is not all alone inside the Beltway, Obama does have Holder and the Democrats in Congress. If they investigate and make public the many and varied treasons of the previous administrations -- going back to the Ford Administration and its co-stooges Poppy, Rumsfeld and Cheney, Obama really would be different than the rest. And that will make him Great.

Let's help him, step-by-step and all along the way. By the time we're done, they're gonna need an army of Special Prosecutors.

[Hutzpa]

87. The die was cast when

they went after Pelosi.

[Me.]

48. Leonardo Da Vinci Said

"He who does not punish evil commands it to be done"

[quidam56]

16. Fox News says - but - but - but

The program was never implimented. ( It lasted eight years ) but - but - but...

[Jackpine Radical]

44. "Never implemented" = "still covert;"

"never exposed."

[Joe Chi Minh]

58. A very funny moment on UK TV the other night. A trio consisting of a pretty right-wing

politician, a former member of Thatcher's Cabinet, and a right wing commentator were jibbering away happily, and all of a sudden one of them said something like "as reliable a news source as Fox", and they all howled with laughter.

[Me.]

19. Nope, No Surprise Here

The recent revelations about Cheney and other subjects including, but not limited to, Franklin's recent revelations only confirm what we suspected and posited these last several years. The only comfort that can be derived from this is that the naysayers no longer have a leg to stand on. Also, the domino theory leads me to believe that this is only the beginning of what we will learn about the long suspected nefarious deeds in the coming months.

[Me.]

20. PS.

It would be interesting to know if the Obama admin has a COG in place and if Congress knows about it.

[rosesaylavee]

22. All I have is hope that these crimes will be prosecuted.

Without the pursuit of justice, without the Rule of Law being upheld, the democracy experiment is over. Failed.

Holder is giving me more hope this week than I have had for a few months. He needs to make the investigation able to explore where it leads and not relegate it to just one aspect of it.

[downindixie]

25. Cheney is now in hiding,at least he's not returning calls.

I hope the beetles and worms won't eat his body!

[Enthusiast]

63. Maybe they will fake his death

as with Ken Lay.

[Kablooie]

26. You're right. It will continue unless officials are held responsible.

Therefore it will continue indefinitely, world without end, amen.

[myrna minx]

27. K&R. n/t

[HCE SuiGeneris]

29. Fascism, and the Corporate Media,

are firmly entrenched. It will be a monumental battle to disinfect our government. However, it is heartening to see this milestone of 'broken silence' finding the light of day.

[flakban]

35. Very well expressed! Corporate media are the predominant facilitators of this shadow government...

The best thing that could happen would be a revelation to mainstream America concerning this ongoing facilitation of corruption. The masses who rely upon corporate media outlets and who lack time to seek out alternative news sources desperately need to be informed of reality in this regard. People don't like to be duped and if the masses realized how they've been manipulated by big media and how the extent of government-corporate corruption has been concealed from them for many years, I believe there would be quite a collective response. It's a shame there's been no attempt to truly 'viralize' the evidence concerning the egregious reciprocity at play between corporate media and executive branch officials. It really needs to happen.

[H2O Man]

38. Thank you.

I tend to think of DU as a modern version of the old Irish "hedge schools," where knowledge was shared with others at a time when the "rules" of society did not allow it. I find the corporate media to be shameful, in that there is almost no effort made to live up to the promise of a "free press." The network/cable news is little more than an extended campaign commercial for the DC machine.

[flakban]

42. Agreed, it's indeed nice that DU is available... and it's sad but so true re corporate media (nt)

[Hutzpa]

88. Took the words right outta my mouth,

also, I hate these diner dates and gathering of media moguls, its a way of
influencing the un-influence, I hate it with a passion.

Sitting around a table looking at someone you don't even like, but you there
so you have to do chit-chat while the big boys broker deals to screw the
American people up.


:puke:

[malaise]

41. Super post Waterman n/t

[Rex]

45. He is a piece of shit?

Oh sorry, I thought you wanted me to complete the sentence.

[me b zola]

46. Excellent post

But I also see the shadow government so deeply entrenched in career positions in so many of the agencies that it will take much more than a few prosecutions, even if they are big fish. Any real effort, though, must include prosecutions.

[Me.]

47. Sticking The Knife In

McCain: CIA secrecy story just beginning

(“CNN) — Sen. John McCain thinks we haven’t heard the last about allegations that former Vice President Dick Cheney ordered secrecy for a CIA surveillance operation after the September 11, 2001, terror attacks.

“If I know Washington, this is the beginning of a pretty involved and detailed story,” McCain said Sunday on the NBC program “Meet the Press.”

According to a New York Times report, Cheney ordered the CIA to withhold information about the unspecified program from Congress. CIA Director Leon Panetta told the House Intelligence Committee last month about the program, which he said had been shut down.

McCain said he knew little about the program and offered no details. He said he expected Cheney, who has yet to comment on the story, to speak up.”

http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/12/mccain-cia-secrecy-story-just-beginning/

[jimshoes]

99. I fully expect mccain to do

a complete 180 on his statement today and assert that he's absolutely confident that cheney is as pure as the driven snow.

[Me.]

104. Not Sure About That

They are no longer any use to McCain and payback is due for SC.

[spanone]

49. k&r....

has anyone ever so brazenly corrupted our government then rubbed our noses in it? without a hint of consequence....?

[H2O Man]

50. His recent media tour

was one of the most obniously insulting things I've seen on the television. And I do not think anyone has had the guts to really call him on his lies on tv (though he avoids the very few who might, if given a chance). At least when Nixon was attempting to intimidate journalists, quite a few became willing to call him out on it.

[Enthusiast]

64. Not that I can imagine.

And I have a pretty good imagination.

[Hutzpa]

90. Yup!

Dick Cheney..... "So"

The man who was using his middle finger on the American
people.


:grr:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SypeZjeOrY4

[Faygo Kid]

53. Never again. Never, should we have an abysmal official like Cheney in power.

Bush/Cheney are the worst in U.S. history. They make Nixon and Andrew Johnson (awful) look like pikers.

[ControlledDemolition]

54. K&R. I don't know how 911 can be equated to anything like an all out nuclear war.

This secret governement, when it feels its survival is threatened, may cook up a 'terrorist nuke' attack. Remember those warheads that were mysteriously flown across the country side without authorization!

[wiggs]

55. Many on DU know we've been in a deep hole for a long time....a hole that

truly has taken decades and billions of dollars to dig. Literally tens trillions of dollars is at stake, along with continuity of an over-arching philosophy of exceptionalism, imperialism, corporatism, and concentration of wealth. Big, big stuff that has lots of momentum...not easy to change.

Yes we blame corporatist republicans first, and ever since Judith Miller and Wolfie we have come to understand that corporatist media is propaganda...as you say. So DU has understood Cheney's role...has understood the shadow government...has understood how a clearly incompetent puppet could get elected twice. However, I don't believe this all could have happened and could continue to happen without the complicity of those who we thought were our allies, leaders, and representatives. Not all of them certainly, but enough.

Enough of them voted for the patriot act, for the IWR, for the bankruptcy act. Enough of them ignored the OBVIOUS signs of the shadow government you describe. Du knows this stuff and do most in the media and both sides of the aisle. They let go outing of agents. They heard Sibel then agreed to be silent along with everyone else. They knew about surveillance, about torture, about lying to congress, about the August PDB and Clark, about Katrina, etc etc etc. We might say that individual dem leaders were out of power for most of the time, but this is an excuse...there's a lot more that individuals can do.

To change things, we have to be honest about who the players are and how deep the hole actually is. Cheney is part of the problem but not the whole problem. He and Gonzales and Feith and Yoo and Junior all deserve jail time and condemnation for crimes against humanity. However they couldn't have done it without a host of others, media included, who pretend to be one thing but are actually another.

[cboy4]

59. K&R

:thumbsup:

[Enthusiast]

60. Richard (the dick) Cheney, K&R

[ancient_nomad]

65. KnR

Thank you H2O Man for your informative and thought provoking post! It's good to see Octafish, Jackpine Radical, Bobthedrummer with their responses - always sharing great info.


edited for spelling.

[Time for change]

66. How true

One crucially important reason why we need why Cheney and the rest of the Bush administration needs to be held accountable for their crimes.

[Wetzelbill]

67. the concept of the unitary executive

The believe in grabbing as much executive power as possible and using it to ram whatever they want to do down everybody else's throats. Cheney and Rumsfeld, as part of Nixon's administration, hated the way that situation ended up. They began to develop the idea that the executive branch should not be able to be held accountable by the other branches of government again. At least not when a Republican is president. You can see it in everything from the way the Iraq War Resolution unfolded to how Bush used signing statements to, well, every damn thing they did. Not respect for anything other than their own power. What a horror show.

[WinkyDink]

68. People who didn't see Cheney as the Fascist he is were simply--and willfully- -not paying attention.

[Uncle Joe]

70. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, H2O Man.

[havocmom]

71. Again, thank you, sir

Much of what we know, we came to see from what you brought here for us.

Stay safe. You are a rare breed of American and much appreciated.

[BlueJac]

72. I am sad to say this will amount to nothing as usual........

we don't have the courage to clean our own house!!!

[varelse]

73. K&R

You're right - electing new leadership wasn't enough to undo the damage. Justice must be done.

[notadmblnd]

74. I went back and revisited one of your old threads.

I think everyone should revisit the information you provided then.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3965815

[H2O Man]

75. The link in your post

brought up an OP from someone else. I'm curious what thread you had intended.

[notadmblnd]

77. it was titled "A Riveting analysis of Cheney

I see it was someone else posting from your article. It linked to your blog and was dated Saturday Dec 10, 2005.

I don't know why the link comes up missing now:shrug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5566546

[H2O Man]

79. Okay ......

it worked. Yes, I think that this was a good history of Dick Cheney. Thanks for this. I hope that people take the time to read it.

[chknltl]

78. 'Missing Topic' is all I get from this link

I've gotten this before, then other DUers report having no problem with the link. Might just be my system.

[notadmblnd]

80. I got that too, maybe because it was archived.

I re posted the link again. I was wrong about the Op though. It was an article of H2Omans posted by someone else. However, the information in the thread kind of brings everything together in regards to Cheney and what has motivated him all these years.

[chknltl]

81. better link provided by notadmblnd...lengthy but worthy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5566546

[democrank]

76. Having lived through countless lies during the Vienam War

and another round of them during Iran-Contra, I`m not the least bit surprised by the craven Dick Cheney`s criminal activities. What floored me was the almost-unanimously spineless assemblage of elected "leaders" and the media whores they invited to their (off-the-record) cocktail parties. The nauseating photo of Mr.-Meet-the-Press, David Gregory, dancing with his teammate Karl Rove, said it all. Prostituting for access was an automatic lip-zipper while the Constitution was being defiled.

It sickened me to hear "leaders" in the Senate and in the "news" business brazenly defend torture but I saw this as a natural next step once we decided as a country that anything goes. Hell, Cheney shooting someone in the face wasn`t as big a story as Janet Jackson`s breast, so, he might as well charter a few torture planes while he`s at it. Even if he got caught, many in the media would defend it and most of the others would just shrug.

Remember Freedom Fries? Remember our choice of standing with Bush and Cheney or standing with the terrorists? Remember the Bush/Cheney Unitary Executive claim? Look where it got us. The Constitution in shreds and the media debating whether or not waterboarding is torture.

Enough! Put the Bushies under oath, hold them accountable and restore the Constitution and the rule of law.

[Liberty Belle]

83. a high level Congressional source today confided this to me:

"Thing are closing in on the conduct," said my source, who was present when Karl Rove testified before Judiciary.

[kohodog]

86. We can only hope.

Some of us felt that the Plame outing would bring down Cheney. Perhaps this has a better chance.

[Kalun D]

93. K & R

going up against the BFEE

going up against the largest crime family in history,

going up against the inbred blue blood death skulls,

gonna take a knight in shining titanium armor. good luck

[pleah]

96. K&R

[glinda]

98. K & R

[subcomhd]

100. Kicked and very recommended

So frightening and true. I'm afraid of how much of the executive branch must still be staffed by people whose real allegiance is to the other "shadow" government. Whether he does or not - expect the Newsweek story about Holder even considering the appointing of a special prosecutor to make things bad ugly - soon.

[MrMickeysMom]

101. Great thread...

Proud to catch it here...

It's taken too many years for, "shadow govt" to be a common household term. I guess this means we have some more work to do.

:kick:

[grasswire]

105. Mrs. Carville was providing cover today in the form of a threat.

She was on CNN with Blitzer. She said that the intelligence agencies will not be able to protect America if this is investigated, and she said she is 110 percent sure that Cheney did everything in his power to keep America safe. (paraphrased from memory)

[OnyxCollie]

107. K&R. nt

[H2O Man]

111. Thanks, and that is

a great looking dog in your photo!

[OnyxCollie]

125. Thank you for the post, H2O Man,

and Dante thanks you for the compliment.

[OnyxCollie]

108. National Security Presidential Directive No. 51

Pulling back the hammer on the shadow government.

NSPD-51: National Continuity Policy
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nspd/nspd-51.htm

Definitions

(2) In this directive:

(a) "Category" refers to the categories of executive departments and agencies listed in Annex A to this directive;

(b) "Catastrophic Emergency" means any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions;

(c) "Continuity of Government," or "COG," means a coordinated effort within the Federal Government's executive branch to ensure that National Essential Functions continue to be performed during a Catastrophic Emergency;

(d) "Continuity of Operations," or "COOP," means an effort within individual executive departments and agencies to ensure that Primary Mission-Essential Functions continue to be performed during a wide range of emergencies, including localized acts of nature, accidents, and technological or attack-related emergencies;

(e) "Enduring Constitutional Government," or "ECG," means a cooperative effort among the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the Federal Government, coordinated by the President, as a matter of comity with respect to the legislative and judicial branches and with proper respect for the constitutional separation of powers among the branches, to preserve the constitutional framework under which the Nation is governed and the capability of all three branches of government to execute constitutional responsibilities and provide for orderly succession, appropriate transition of leadership, and interoperability and support of the National Essential Functions during a catastrophic emergency;

(f) "Executive Departments and Agencies" means the executive departments enumerated in 5 U.S.C. 101, independent establishments as defined by 5 U.S.C. 104(1), Government corporations as defined by 5 U.S.C. 103(1), and the United States Postal Service;

(g) "Government Functions" means the collective functions of the heads of executive departments and agencies as defined by statute, regulation, presidential direction, or other legal authority, and the functions of the legislative and judicial branches;

(h) "National Essential Functions," or "NEFs," means that subset of Government Functions that are necessary to lead and sustain the Nation during a catastrophic emergency and that, therefore, must be supported through COOP and COG capabilities; and

(i) "Primary Mission Essential Functions," or "PMEFs," means those Government Functions that must be performed in order to support or implement the performance of NEFs before, during, and in the aftermath of an emergency.

~snip~

Implementation Actions

(4) Continuity requirements shall be incorporated into daily operations of all executive departments and agencies. As a result of the asymmetric threat environment, adequate warning of potential emergencies that could pose a significant risk to the homeland might not be available, and therefore all continuity planning shall be based on the assumption that no such warning will be received. Emphasis will be placed upon geographic dispersion of leadership, staff, and infrastructure in order to increase survivability and maintain uninterrupted Government Functions. Risk management principles shall be applied to ensure that appropriate operational readiness decisions are based on the probability of an attack or other incident and its consequences.

(5) The following NEFs are the foundation for all continuity programs and capabilities and represent the overarching responsibilities of the Federal Government to lead and sustain the Nation during a crisis, and therefore sustaining the following NEFs shall be the primary focus of the Federal Government leadership during and in the aftermath of an emergency that adversely affects the performance of Government Functions:

(a) Ensuring the continued functioning of our form of government under the Constitution, including the functioning of the three separate branches of government;

(b) Providing leadership visible to the Nation and the world and maintaining the trust and confidence of the American people;

(c) Defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and preventing or interdicting attacks against the United States or its people, property, or interests;

(d) Maintaining and fostering effective relationships with foreign nations;

(e) Protecting against threats to the homeland and bringing to justice perpetrators of crimes or attacks against the United States or its people, property, or interests;

(f) Providing rapid and effective response to and recovery from the domestic consequences of an attack or other incident;

(g) Protecting and stabilizing the Nation's economy and ensuring public confidence in its financial systems; and

(h) Providing for critical Federal Government services that address the national health, safety, and welfare needs of the United States.

(6) The President shall lead the activities of the Federal Government for ensuring constitutional government. In order to advise and assist the President in that function, the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism (APHS/CT) is hereby designated as the National Continuity Coordinator. The National Continuity Coordinator, in coordination with the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs (APNSA), without exercising directive authority, shall coordinate the development and implementation of continuity policy for executive departments and agencies. The Continuity Policy Coordination Committee (CPCC), chaired by a Senior Director from the Homeland Security Council staff, designated by the National Continuity Coordinator, shall be the main day-to-day forum for such policy coordination.

(7) For continuity purposes, each executive department and agency is assigned to a category in accordance with the nature and characteristics of its national security roles and responsibilities in support of the Federal Government's ability to sustain the NEFs. The Secretary of Homeland Security shall serve as the President's lead agent for coordinating overall continuity operations and activities of executive departments and agencies, and in such role shall perform the responsibilities set forth for the Secretary in sections 10 and 16 of this directive.

Wonder what they were planning to do to put this into effect...

[Senator]

109. Regarding Cheney's Getaway Car Driver -- Obama

He needs to make a u-turn and shine the high beams on the "dark side." It's the only way to deal with shadows.

Otherwise his continuing "failure to do so" -- which does "violate the oath of office" -- will forever by "interpreted as cooperation with the forces of that shadow government."

And it will be his ONLY legacy.

====

[nolabels]

114. To me the metaphor seems to fit but the plot don't

As to Whether Obama is participating in this wittingly or not it is another question. Though it does appear all those dark alleys Cheney and the getaway coveted before now look brightly lit. The more they try to hide the worse it gets

[Senator]

117. Not sure I'm following your plot

The "worse it gets" for whom, exactly?

The key metaphor is the u-turn, not the headlights. Because it is actually DOING (...some damn thing). The headlights are only for seeing what TO DO. Seeing is not doing. Knowing is not doing. Teaching is not doing. Broadcasting is not doing. Investigating is not doing.

Even hearings are not doings.

But Obama is certainly "participating in this wittingly," because in his position sadly, "not doing" actually qualifies as doing. His only options are doing right or doing wrong.

--

[nolabels]

133. So would you be suggesting that Obama is the proverbial door stop?

Sometimes people in charge of things get so wrapped up in trying to prove they made the correct choice the first time out that they are blind to anything that would prove different.
I haven't paid that much attention as of late but looking around at samples of other news and posts it seems an Obama hampering investigations could be a distinct possibility.

[Senator]

139. I'm describing far worse.

To continue the metaphor, Obama doesn't have the luxury of a brake pedal or neutral gear.

Whether it's labeled "hampering," or "door stopping," or political/electoral pragmatism is virtually irrelevant. Failure to prosecute is de facto legalization. He has already been http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE53H1Y020090418">admonished for this reality.

Which has him, blindly or not, slouching into "worse than bushcheney" territory.

Simple put, a few criminals wandering through a town is nothing compared to a corrupt police force.

====

[tomp]

116. agreed, obama is responsible. nt

[armyowalgreens]

110. K&R...Ooooooh Fascism...you are a sneaky bastard.

[DailyGrind51]

118. That craven disgusting bastard should be frog-marched down to Gitmo, sans attorney, and waterboarded

[leveymg]

119. H2O Man - did you know that Charlie Wilson was active-duty COG when he was first elected?

Then State Representative Charlie Wilson was elected to the Texas State House of Reps while still on active-duty as a Lt. in the US Navy Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) at the same time that he was serving in the Continuity of Gov't program.

It was a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, but Charlie got away with it, just as he had gotten away with smuggling contraband on board ship while on sea duty. In fact, it appears he was chosen for ONI because he was a very clever and effective smuggler. Wilson served to COG planning at the Pentagon as he pursued a political career.

It seems that COG was also a recruiting ground for military intelligence to select future political leaders. Charlie always behaved as if he had a "Get Out of Jail Free" card. There are others.

My jaw nearly dropped when I read that about him in the early pages of the late George Crile's brilliant biography, "Charlie Wilson's War."

[pjt7]

121. Could Russ Feingold

be the Senatorial hero were looking for?

[leveymg]

127. And, regarding Dick Cheney and Charlie Wilson.

Guess who helped get Charlie Wilson, a very junior Congressmnan from a rural district in Texas, appointed to the all-important House Permanent Select Commitee of Intelligence (HPSCI) and the Armed Services subcommittee of the House Appropriations Committee?

Dick Cheney, yes, Dick Cheney who had been an ally of Wilson's from the days of Somoza dictatorship, the Central American death squads, and Iran-Contra days. If you haven't already, for more on this strange Cold War partnership between the East Texas "liberal" and the man from Cheyenne, see,

The main enemy: the inside story of the CIA's final showdown with ... - Google Books Result by Milt Bearden, James Risen - 2004 - History - 576 pages
But it would be in Washington that Charlie Wilson would make the most ... Behind the scenes, Dick Cheney lobbied for Wilson's assignment to the HPSCI, ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=0345472500...

[leveymg]

132. Also highly recommended about how the COG became a distinct power among defense contracting sources:

and how the "Armagedon Project" was administered through Army Intelligence HQ at Ft. Huachuca, Arizona:

Spies for Hire: The Secret World of Intelligence Outsourcing - Google Books Resultby Tim Shorrock - 2008 - Political Science - 448 pages
This was the "continuity of government" task force initiated by the Reagan ... Bob Woodward, writing in the Washington Post, called IBEX "a project of truly ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=0743282248...

[H2O Man]

138. Not surprising,

is it?

[leveymg]

142. Just saying:

add a major hub to the matrix.

No, not one bit surprising. In Crile's book, Charlie recalled his thoughts as he sat at the launch consule in the Pentagon Command Center during alert exercises, after the senior officers had been choppered off to undisclosed locations. "If they fuck with us, hit that button, and there goes Kiev. Then that button takes out Minsk. . . " (or to that effect, p. 27 of the paperback version).

My reaction is, here's a guy who's had too much power over life and death, and clearly enjoys it too much. Like the spook-politicians, these guys should never be allowed anywhere near elected office. I believe George Washington believed the same thing.

[Vilis Veritas]

122. Do not delude yourselves...

Those in line for power will in no way take action against those that have given them the keys to the kingdom...for doing so would remove the very keys from their own greedy little hands...

V V

[zorahopkins]

130. Investigate Bush/Cheney Regime of Thugs and Cronies!

I feel that the entire Bush/Cheney illegal regime of thugs and cronies should be investigated -- starting with Bush/Cheney/Rumsefeld/Rice, and continuing right through until every single war criminal, thug, cronie, lackey, and thief in that horrible, evil, corrupt and illegal regime has been completely and totally investigated.

It is NOT a waste of time to do these investigations. The illegal and totally corrupt Bush/Cheney regime of thugs and cronies engaged in torture and other terrible war crimes. They took this nation to war for NO reason, and they bombed innocent children and women in Iraq, and had thousands of American soldiers killed just to satisfy the blood lust of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, and the rest of those evil monsters.

Also, they did everything they could to take away the rights of Americans. They listened in to our phone calls. They looked at our emails. They even demanded to see what books we checked out form the library!

They are all monsters -- everyone of them.

And they deserve to be not just investigated. They deserve to be indicted, tried, and CONVICTED for their terrible crimes. And they deserve imprisonment in the same types of cells they put "detainees" into. Monstrous people who commit monstrous crimes should be investigated. We did it at Nuremburg after WWII. We MUST DO IT NOW!

It is the ONLY way we can begin to move into the new era of peace, prosperity, justice, gender equality, and love that President Obama really wishes to move our country - and the entire world - to.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

131. what about his other secret energy task force meetings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Task_Force

[Blue_Roses]

135. kick!

I think you are one of the most "spot on" writers about Cheney.

[David Zephyr]

140. Excellent!

I've been out of town and wish I could recommend this spot-on-the-mark thread, H2O Man.

But I'm proud to kick it up because we need to make this story THE story.