Statistics is an amazing discipline.

[Jackpine Radical]

The DLC has been shouting for years that only the "20-Percenters" want universal single-payer health care.

And polls now show that 72% of the public want universal single-payer.

So now 72% of us are 20-percenters.

Ah, Only in America...

[Oregone]

1. What polls? Link please

[robinlynne]

8. articles abound, just google. you will find 70-76% listed in various articles.

[karynnj]

16. Not for single payer you won't

Here - look for yourself:
http://pollingreport.com/health.htm

There are many many polls here, NONE showing anything near that for single payer. Look at the top poll - several questions relate to it and they would suggest that the marjority of people would be against it.

[robinlynne]

22. never heard of that website. google single-payer. or try

one-care, or PNHP, or any other group working for single payer. There were several hundred people in the street here yesterday for single payer at Waxman's office. at least 6 different organizations, including 4 unions, nurses association, physicians.
Every single payer event I ahve seen is filled to overflowing.
stats say 70- 76%

try googling single payer
or 676.

[karynnj]

23. If you went to that website you would see that they

have most of the published polls you see elsewhere. Unlike most articles that report on polls, they have the question as asked.

The fact is that many single payer sites and advocates will take results out of context - distorting their meaning. I have seen many that did this with the NYT study. What I gave you is a reputable source that archives pollining on many political issues.

Any event can be filled to overflowing - even when the majority of people are not for the cause of the event. Just pick a venue small enough. The fact is there are many people passionate about single payer and they are willing to come out, but look at the site I gave you. There are people who clearly do not want a single payer system. (I personally think it would be a good idea - but I doubt people are overall unhappy enough to tear down the existing system.)

[annabanana]

2. The stated "assumption" that there was no support for it seems to have

been a tactic all along.

[robinlynne]

9. and there is not a lot of support among our elected Dems......

The people are a lot more progressive than the elected "leadership' generally.

[bvar22]

12. HR676 (Medicare for ALL) has 85 co-sponsors in The House.

That IS pretty good support, but you won't hear this fact from the "Centrist" Party Leaders.

[robinlynne]

13. NICE!

[lindisfarne]

3. Link? I've seen a NY Times study saying 72% want public option with private insurance alongside.

Only about 50% want single payer.

Where's the link to the comment about the DLC & 20%, or the link to the study showing 72% of public want Univ. SP?

[Jackpine Radical]

4. Oh, ferChrissakes lighten up.

The poll said 72% want a government option.

The DLC was trying to trivialize a wish held by a large minority.

My phrasing was akin to poetic license. The exact numbers are unimportant to my main thrust, at least for anyone who is not a literalist pedant.

[Greyhound]

6. That is what happens more and more often here. If you make a general point

the opposition picks it with trivial nonsense to drown out that point and derail the conversation.

Still, it's a good place to gather news from a variety of sources outside the American propaganda machine. We get real-life translations as well.
:kick: & R

[BlooInBloo]

10. Wow. The truth REALLY doesn't matter to you. Unrec'ing due to OP making shit up.

[karynnj]

17. Same here - thanks for suggesting it.

This implies no disrespect to the op, just that an unreccomend corrects recommends by people who took it as truth, when it isn't.

[BlooInBloo]

21. I'm glad I held my rec-choice until I found out the OP was making shit up.

[Greyhound]

28. The truth is that a majority of Americans want what these republiks in Democratic clothing

are denying them. The lie is the issue, the specific numbers are irrelevant for the purpose of his post.

Of course, you demonstrate your capacity for comprehension and motivation for participating on DU every time you write, so it's no surprise to me that this is what you choose to pick up on.

[Jackpine Radical]

11. Did you know that 83 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot?

[karynnj]

18. By you? That might be an accurate estimate

By serious academicians, scientists, good politicians and conscientious people, there is an attempt to correctly give the statistics and explain the background.

[armyowalgreens]

27. Most of the time, the numbers are correct. The explanation of the data, however, is another story.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

7. If you're using numbers to make an argument then you should be accurate

and not be surprised that people would like to see them. Is that really asking too much?

[anigbrowl]

19. Don't start a thread about statistics and then claim the numbers don't matter

I'm strongly in favor of single payer, but we can do without people making bullshit claims which undermine the credibility of single payer advocates.

[BlooInBloo]

5. Yes, prob/stats is awesome. Got a link to your claim?

[Odin2005]

14. The DLC is chasing after ghosts. And they don't understand history.

They are a bunch of scaredy-cats that never got over the electoral disasters of 1984 and 1994. They don't understand that the political mood is cyclical, the period from 1984 to 2005 was a conservative phase of the Schlesinger Cycle and the political mood of the American electorate was shifting towards the Right. Many of the DLCs ideas may have made sense in that political environment but not anymore Now we have entered a liberal phase of the cycle, and the electorate is shifting back to the left as in the previous liberal periods, 1964-1983, 1929-1945, and 1892-1914.

[karynnj]

15. If you are quoting the NYT/CBS study - the 72% is for having

a public option competing with private ones.

Statistics is an amazing discipline. It is also true that the wording of questions used in polls matters. Here is a link to the questions and cross tabs on that entire study. There is a wealth of information there, but you need to be careful to look at the question actually asked. The question involved here in 69.

A question that MIGHT be closer is number 43 - where people are asked if the healthcare system needs minor changes, fundamental changes or to be totally rebuilt. You could argue that the last answer might be those wanting single payer - which would be a complete rebuild. That is not 20%, it is 34%.

http://documents.nytimes.com/latest-new-york-times-cbs-news-poll-on-health#p=1

[Jackpine Radical]

24. I tried to clarify that fact in post 4 above

but everyone has been too busy using me for a pinata to read it.

[kentuck]

20. There is an old quote about statistics...

"He uses statistics as a drunken man
uses lamp-posts... support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

[opihimoimoi]

25. The Pub Masters use Fuzzy Math Card...they know their Base has only a "Fuzzy" understanding of Basic

Math Skills.

As such their base is easily fooled//// if ya can fool, ya can rule...

I am amazed we have this "Percent of Humanity" unable to compute simple math....it speaks volumes....

[armyowalgreens]

26. Ironically, your explanation is incorrect. 72% want a public option...

not universal single-payer.